Exactly. I'm getting tired of all these people claiming AT&T has *raised* the price on iPhone's data plan. Simply not true. The cost of a 3G data plan from AT&T for ANY phone has always been $30 a month.
Let's try and keep up people, this info is common knowledge.
The part I bolded above is true. It was $20, now it will be $30. I haven't read a single comment claiming that AT&T has raised the iPhone's data rate past the amount it charges for other phones.
One thing that could have kept iPhone's data plan lower than other devices is its mandatory unlimited plan for every properly activated iPhone user. For comparison, other phones have an optional data plan and cheaper plans for less heavy data users. This is one possible reason why people are complaining about the price hike, despite the 3G access.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marklark
If Apple is making as much money from AT&T as they were with the original iPhone... Will we see any other companies in the US selling iPhones?
I don't think so... :^/
What companies? If you mean other cellphone carriers, then no. IF you mean AT&T 3rd-party retailers, then maybe as many of the reasons for not including them last year have vanished.
Well I guessed that the wholesale price of the phone was about $600+, so this sounds about right. I'd call the $100 a 'retail margin' discount going the other way rather than Apple getting a bounty.
Of course when it comes to selling unsubsidised phones, I'm sure they will cost a lot more to consumers.
I think Apple will make out well in the end. A $325 subsidy and $10 extra a month means you'll break even in 2.7 years. In that time Apple will have almost surely released at least 2 new versions of the iPhone, and I'm sure many who have the iPhone 2.0 will upgrade to at least one of them. Even if they don't want to break their contract and get the latest phone, they're eligible for a new subsidy after 2 years, which means an extra $70 for Apple from every 2.0 owner who upgrades before AT&T has made a profit on the 3G data upgrade.
Your calculations are wrong. Apple is no longer receiving the revenue stream from AT&T so AT&T is netting more then $10/user as before.
I read the revenue AT&T was paying Apple was around $18/month. So technically AT&T is making $28/month more per customer then before. Therefore the break even would be around 11~12 months. No details about how much AT&T was paying Apple so those numbers are estimates.
Further, if Apple didn't care much about black-market iPhones in the past, they REALLY don't care much now -- it's up to AT&T to go after people for the early termination fee.
Yes, I think that's a big point that people are forgetting. I suspect that in exchange for the upfront subsidies, Apple had to agree to in-store activation. Apple gets their money sooner, ATT gets more contracts. ATT had more to gain, so they probably asked for in-store activation first. Then Apple said, "OK, but we want our money upfront." Remember, iTunes activation was one of Steve's babies when the iPhone was announced.
Yes, I think that's a big point that people are forgetting. I suspect that in exchange for the upfront subsidies, Apple had to agree to in-store activation. Apple gets their money sooner, ATT gets more contracts. ATT had more to gain, so they probably asked for in-store activation first. Then Apple said, "OK, but we want our money upfront." Remember, iTunes activation was one of Steve's babies when the iPhone was announced.
ITunes activations appear to still be possible. It was mentioned at teh WWDC that you have 30 days to activate the device. I don't see how the same method will be possible with non-AT&T customers, but current AT&T customers may be able to walk in and out by showing their ID which verifies they have a current AT&T account and AT&T/Apple tiring the iPhone's IMEI to your account.
I think this explains a lot. It explains why the data plans have jumped $10/month. It explains why AT&T has yet to reveal whether any SMS will be included in the rate or if texting will cost extra (I'm now betting the latter.) With subsidies that high, AT&T has to get its $325 back somewhere....anywhere it can. I don't at all feel sorry for AT&T and am no apologist for them, but am recognizing the simple $$ of the situation. And now I'm less likely to be mad at AT&T for higher iPhone fees and more likely to be mad at Apple 'cos it seems that's where the money is really flowing.
If it makes you feel better I'm sure att would still charge you more regardless of how much they paid apple.
Conversations that never occur at cell phone companies: "better phone? A chance to make more money? Nah let's be nice, the consumers deserve it. "
Cell phone companies and oil companies will always be the most "evil" rest assured. They're necessary evils...apple is voluntary. You can't rape the willing.
Nobody is forcing you to reply to my comment. If you don't like it don't reply.
Or you to his. Is Apple being greedy? Probably. Is it within the typical profit margins of their other products? Probably. I don't see any reason why this iPhone should be looked upon with disdain over teh last one, which started at $600 and included the profit sharing. Even with the lowered price, the rumoured profit sharing amounts still put it with the same range as this one.
WoW...how f'ing greedy of Apple. I'm pretty sure AT&T doesn't care how much they have to pay, the can/will just pass it on to us.
It's 10 bucks more a month, and it has 3G so.... whats the problem?
aaaaaaaaaaand, reality check, Apple is a COMPANY their job is to make money. They are generally a pretty good company, as far as companies go, but they are still a company. \
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight
Nobody is forcing you to reply to my comment. If you don't like it don't reply.
i think you seriously missed his point (although I'll agree "if you don't like it don't complain because nobody is forcing you to... buy an iPhone, live in the US, watch the TV show, or whatever..." is not a particularly valid point to begin with) but it makes more sense than what you said.
WoW...how f'ing greedy of Apple. I'm pretty sure AT&T doesn't care how much they have to pay, the can/will just pass it on to us.
Apple is a corporation, it doesn't have emotions, so it can't be greedy. Also, as a publicly traded corporation it's required by law to maximise returns for its shareholders, usually by maximising profit.
So, the bottom line is if you don't like the price, don't buy it. But for God sake's stop whining.
Holey moley Apple is totally raping the service providers. Good on them.
Yeah; and the service providers pass on the charges to us. Are you implying that Apple is doing this "for the little guys"? I don't understand your statement "Apple is totally raping the service providers".
Note the list price for a N95 runs between $440 to $785. However, as the article states, the total costs for the phone + service plan runs about the same "or lower" for the iPhone.
Again, one can see that cell phones bought from a carrier are in most part subsidized by the carrier. ATT doesn't have the N95, but the N75 lists for about $350 and the carrier will let you have it for $99. As such, ATT is subsidizing $250 to the cost, but guess who is actually paying the difference. You are over the period of the contract.
Standard practice. A company manufactures and markets their phone, the carrier subsidizes a significant portion of the manufactures price for the phone, and then offers it at a discounted price to entice users to commit to a long term contract for service.
Here's an idea, for those of you who are upset by Apple's trying to (how dare they!) profit by selling products: Make some of your money back!
!!NEW OFFER FOR APPLE BASHERS!!
It's simple really.
Do you think Apple is making tons of money selling iPhones?
Do you intend to buy an iPhone?
Do you think Apple is really sticking it to ATT?
Great! Now you too can BE Apple. You can OWN Apple Inc.!
Well, it isn't a new opportunity, but it is one that many (apparently) know nothing about...
You too can buy Apple stock. If you can read this message on your computer, you can go to Ameritrade.com or one of dozens of other websites and buy yourself a little piece of the company. Then, when you hear that the company's profit margin is high, that it is raking in cash, and that millions of people are buying the iPhone you can rather than
I am confused. How much total does Apple get per phone. It sounds like its 199+325 or 524.
Thats more than before
I don't understand. So you can ONLY buy the phone if you commit to a two year plan with AT&T. You actually end up paying more over the course of the new contract, and that's fine considering the added features. But then how can Apple advertise the phone at a lesser price point given that it costs more in the long run?
I don't understand. So you can ONLY buy the phone if you commit to a two year plan with AT&T. You actually end up paying more over the course of the new contract, and that's fine considering the added features. But then how can Apple advertise the phone at a lesser price point given that it costs more in the long run?
I don't understand. So you can ONLY buy the phone if you commit to a two year plan with AT&T. You actually end up paying more over the course of the new contract, and that's fine considering the added features. But then how can Apple advertise the phone at a lesser price point given that it costs more in the long run?
Because that is how the subsidy model works. It's a horrible marketing tactic, IMO. Apple is selling you the device for $200. But it's locked to AT&T and requires a 2 year contract. AT&T is paying Apple the set upon fee for each new iPhone activation.
In at least some parts of Europe (though it may be an EU rule) they have to state the complete costs. So if they advertise a $200 iPhone, but it requires a 2 year contract, they have to state what it will really cost over those 2 years. I think we need to adopt this consumer friendly procedure.
Also, as a publicly traded corporation it's required by law to maximise returns for its shareholders, usually by maximising profit.
Could you point out the section of the US Code that states that? I'm sure the guys at Exxon and BP will be glad to know about it. That's the attitude that LEADS to breaking the law!
Steve Jobs had a quote in a Fortune magazine article several years ago about this. He said one of the biggest problems with people running a lot of companies is that they were in it for the quick buck for the shareholders rather than the long-term success and viability of the company.
Comments
Exactly. I'm getting tired of all these people claiming AT&T has *raised* the price on iPhone's data plan. Simply not true. The cost of a 3G data plan from AT&T for ANY phone has always been $30 a month.
Let's try and keep up people, this info is common knowledge.
The part I bolded above is true. It was $20, now it will be $30. I haven't read a single comment claiming that AT&T has raised the iPhone's data rate past the amount it charges for other phones.
One thing that could have kept iPhone's data plan lower than other devices is its mandatory unlimited plan for every properly activated iPhone user. For comparison, other phones have an optional data plan and cheaper plans for less heavy data users. This is one possible reason why people are complaining about the price hike, despite the 3G access.
If Apple is making as much money from AT&T as they were with the original iPhone... Will we see any other companies in the US selling iPhones?
I don't think so... :^/
What companies? If you mean other cellphone carriers, then no. IF you mean AT&T 3rd-party retailers, then maybe as many of the reasons for not including them last year have vanished.
Of course when it comes to selling unsubsidised phones, I'm sure they will cost a lot more to consumers.
I think Apple will make out well in the end. A $325 subsidy and $10 extra a month means you'll break even in 2.7 years. In that time Apple will have almost surely released at least 2 new versions of the iPhone, and I'm sure many who have the iPhone 2.0 will upgrade to at least one of them. Even if they don't want to break their contract and get the latest phone, they're eligible for a new subsidy after 2 years, which means an extra $70 for Apple from every 2.0 owner who upgrades before AT&T has made a profit on the 3G data upgrade.
Your calculations are wrong. Apple is no longer receiving the revenue stream from AT&T so AT&T is netting more then $10/user as before.
I read the revenue AT&T was paying Apple was around $18/month. So technically AT&T is making $28/month more per customer then before. Therefore the break even would be around 11~12 months. No details about how much AT&T was paying Apple so those numbers are estimates.
Further, if Apple didn't care much about black-market iPhones in the past, they REALLY don't care much now -- it's up to AT&T to go after people for the early termination fee.
Yes, I think that's a big point that people are forgetting. I suspect that in exchange for the upfront subsidies, Apple had to agree to in-store activation. Apple gets their money sooner, ATT gets more contracts. ATT had more to gain, so they probably asked for in-store activation first. Then Apple said, "OK, but we want our money upfront." Remember, iTunes activation was one of Steve's babies when the iPhone was announced.
Yes, I think that's a big point that people are forgetting. I suspect that in exchange for the upfront subsidies, Apple had to agree to in-store activation. Apple gets their money sooner, ATT gets more contracts. ATT had more to gain, so they probably asked for in-store activation first. Then Apple said, "OK, but we want our money upfront." Remember, iTunes activation was one of Steve's babies when the iPhone was announced.
ITunes activations appear to still be possible. It was mentioned at teh WWDC that you have 30 days to activate the device. I don't see how the same method will be possible with non-AT&T customers, but current AT&T customers may be able to walk in and out by showing their ID which verifies they have a current AT&T account and AT&T/Apple tiring the iPhone's IMEI to your account.
I think this explains a lot. It explains why the data plans have jumped $10/month. It explains why AT&T has yet to reveal whether any SMS will be included in the rate or if texting will cost extra (I'm now betting the latter.) With subsidies that high, AT&T has to get its $325 back somewhere....anywhere it can. I don't at all feel sorry for AT&T and am no apologist for them, but am recognizing the simple $$ of the situation. And now I'm less likely to be mad at AT&T for higher iPhone fees and more likely to be mad at Apple 'cos it seems that's where the money is really flowing.
If it makes you feel better I'm sure att would still charge you more regardless of how much they paid apple.
Conversations that never occur at cell phone companies: "better phone? A chance to make more money? Nah let's be nice, the consumers deserve it. "
Cell phone companies and oil companies will always be the most "evil" rest assured. They're necessary evils...apple is voluntary. You can't rape the willing.
WoW...how f'ing greedy of Apple. I'm pretty sure AT&T doesn't care how much they have to pay, the can/will just pass it on to us.
Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an iphone. your life does not depend on one. If you do not like the pricing, don't buy.
Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an iphone. your life does not depend on one. If you do not like the pricing, don't buy.
Nobody is forcing you to reply to my comment. If you don't like it don't reply.
Or you to his. Is Apple being greedy? Probably. Is it within the typical profit margins of their other products? Probably. I don't see any reason why this iPhone should be looked upon with disdain over teh last one, which started at $600 and included the profit sharing. Even with the lowered price, the rumoured profit sharing amounts still put it with the same range as this one.
Nobody is forcing you to reply to my comment. If you don't like it don't reply.
Good for you. Thirteen year olds have rights, too.
WoW...how f'ing greedy of Apple. I'm pretty sure AT&T doesn't care how much they have to pay, the can/will just pass it on to us.
It's 10 bucks more a month, and it has 3G so.... whats the problem?
aaaaaaaaaaand, reality check, Apple is a COMPANY their job is to make money. They are generally a pretty good company, as far as companies go, but they are still a company.
Nobody is forcing you to reply to my comment. If you don't like it don't reply.
i think you seriously missed his point (although I'll agree "if you don't like it don't complain because nobody is forcing you to... buy an iPhone, live in the US, watch the TV show, or whatever..." is not a particularly valid point to begin with) but it makes more sense than what you said.
WoW...how f'ing greedy of Apple. I'm pretty sure AT&T doesn't care how much they have to pay, the can/will just pass it on to us.
Apple is a corporation, it doesn't have emotions, so it can't be greedy. Also, as a publicly traded corporation it's required by law to maximise returns for its shareholders, usually by maximising profit.
So, the bottom line is if you don't like the price, don't buy it. But for God sake's stop whining.
Holey moley Apple is totally raping the service providers. Good on them.
Yeah; and the service providers pass on the charges to us. Are you implying that Apple is doing this "for the little guys"? I don't understand your statement "Apple is totally raping the service providers".
WoW...how f'ing greedy of Apple. I'm pretty sure AT&T doesn't care how much they have to pay, the can/will just pass it on to us.
Interesting Comparison iPhone vs N95 8 GB. http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...ia_N95_8GB.php
Note the list price for a N95 runs between $440 to $785. However, as the article states, the total costs for the phone + service plan runs about the same "or lower" for the iPhone.
Again, one can see that cell phones bought from a carrier are in most part subsidized by the carrier. ATT doesn't have the N95, but the N75 lists for about $350 and the carrier will let you have it for $99. As such, ATT is subsidizing $250 to the cost, but guess who is actually paying the difference. You are over the period of the contract.
Standard practice. A company manufactures and markets their phone, the carrier subsidizes a significant portion of the manufactures price for the phone, and then offers it at a discounted price to entice users to commit to a long term contract for service.
!!NEW OFFER FOR APPLE BASHERS!!
It's simple really.
Do you think Apple is making tons of money selling iPhones?
Do you intend to buy an iPhone?
Do you think Apple is really sticking it to ATT?
Great! Now you too can BE Apple. You can OWN Apple Inc.!
Well, it isn't a new opportunity, but it is one that many (apparently) know nothing about...
You too can buy Apple stock. If you can read this message on your computer, you can go to Ameritrade.com or one of dozens of other websites and buy yourself a little piece of the company. Then, when you hear that the company's profit margin is high, that it is raking in cash, and that millions of people are buying the iPhone you can
I am confused. How much total does Apple get per phone. It sounds like its 199+325 or 524.
Thats more than before
I don't understand. So you can ONLY buy the phone if you commit to a two year plan with AT&T. You actually end up paying more over the course of the new contract, and that's fine considering the added features. But then how can Apple advertise the phone at a lesser price point given that it costs more in the long run?
I don't understand. So you can ONLY buy the phone if you commit to a two year plan with AT&T. You actually end up paying more over the course of the new contract, and that's fine considering the added features. But then how can Apple advertise the phone at a lesser price point given that it costs more in the long run?
The phone costs less but the service is more.
I don't understand. So you can ONLY buy the phone if you commit to a two year plan with AT&T. You actually end up paying more over the course of the new contract, and that's fine considering the added features. But then how can Apple advertise the phone at a lesser price point given that it costs more in the long run?
Because that is how the subsidy model works. It's a horrible marketing tactic, IMO. Apple is selling you the device for $200. But it's locked to AT&T and requires a 2 year contract. AT&T is paying Apple the set upon fee for each new iPhone activation.
In at least some parts of Europe (though it may be an EU rule) they have to state the complete costs. So if they advertise a $200 iPhone, but it requires a 2 year contract, they have to state what it will really cost over those 2 years. I think we need to adopt this consumer friendly procedure.
Also, as a publicly traded corporation it's required by law to maximise returns for its shareholders, usually by maximising profit.
Could you point out the section of the US Code that states that? I'm sure the guys at Exxon and BP will be glad to know about it. That's the attitude that LEADS to breaking the law!
Steve Jobs had a quote in a Fortune magazine article several years ago about this. He said one of the biggest problems with people running a lot of companies is that they were in it for the quick buck for the shareholders rather than the long-term success and viability of the company.