I agree with vinea, don't put in separate telephone wires. When I had my house built 12 years ago, I had CAT5 cable installed (in conduit) with dual RJ45 ports in all rooms. These are all connected to a pair of 32 port RJ45 patch panels. This way I can reconfigure any port in the house for LAN, ISDN or analogue telephone.
I was definitely planning on a patch panel. If you're using RJ45 ports, do you need some sort of RJ45->RJ11 adapter for use with a standard telephone? Maybe I'm not being imaginative enough, but it seems to me I'd be pretty happy with one CAT6a cable plus one 4-conductor phone line, each terminated with RJ45 and RJ11 jacks, respectively.
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I also had additional plumbing installed to two locations; the loft for a future bathroom as the kids get older, and the basement for a kitchen if we decide to convert a few rooms to a rentable apartment.
We're only two people living in this house, but we're going to have five bathrooms, four of which you can take a bath in. It insane. The top floor has dual master suites, each with their own bathroom. Those two bathrooms have their own shower stalls, but share a jacuzzi tub between them, Jack-and-Jill style. I guess I'd call that two 7/8 baths.
With the top floor, ground floor, and basement each having a "public" bathroom, that gets us up to five bathrooms. Crazy, but it's only costing a few thousand dollars extra and the end result will be awfully convenient, and all the bathrooms will be a good selling point if this house is every sold to a bigger family.
I specified an extra pocket door in the floor plan of the top floor which will allow a guest in our guest room to close off public access to the other bathroom, making the guest room and bath a small private suite.
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We have central sucking. Think about where you will store the hose. I wish I had built a small closet just for its storage. It hangs in the laundry room now and isn't very convenient.
It would $800 per hose I think (not sure of the exact pricing), so I don't know if it's worth the expense considering we'd need at least three of them, but there's a cool retractable hose system that can fit into a 2x4 wall cavity.
I'm wondering if I'm going to make our builder's head explode when he sees the drawing below.
I hope we're not trying his patience too much with all of our design tweaks. I didn't want to suggest any more floor plan changes at this point. Nothing has been built yet, however, so I want to make this suggestion while I can, even if it's a crazy idea, and even if it comes a little annoying late in the planning process.
I started thinking about two-piece rear projection instead of front projection, but the challenge has been finding a high-quality projector with short enough a "throw" to create a big picture with less than five feet of throw being available, which is all the throw I could get from behind the screen in the previous floor plan.
Since a short throw hugely limited projector choice, and/or meant smaller screens or expensive tricks with adapter lenses or mirror systems of unknown picture quality, I decided to play around with the idea of simply creating a bit more throw room:
The change I made was to add a "projector alcove" to the equipment room of the home theater. The alcove would end up underneath the front porch, and I don't know if this would introduce any big structural challenges or not. I also made what I call the "equipment closet" 6' deep, up from 5', which makes the theater proper a little smaller, but still leaves it a good size.
I may not go as big as an 8'-wide screen (that's 110" diagonal for 16:9) at first because of the trade-off between screen size and brightness. Since I'm picky about color quality I'm thinking about using a Sony VPL-VW200, which is a great projector but a bit shy on total light output. Cheaper but brighter alternatives seem to suffer a lot from inaccurate color, at least from the reviews I've read.
It's very hard to find many projector demos of different brands locally so that I could judge for myself in person what's going to satisfy me for picture quality.
By the way, thick walls with good acoustic insulation, plus heavy doors with weather stripping, are being used to help sound-proof the theater. Even though the theater is in the basement near the furnace and other utilities, it should be very quiet.
I'm hoping that a head-on view of the minimum projector alcove I'll like to have will help make the idea look less daunting that perhaps the original overhead floor plan view might have done, so I just e-mailed him the sketch below. I've also told the builder I'd be willing to pay up to $5000 for this modification, because it's easily worth that for the wider selection of less expensive projectors and screens that will work for me if I can have 12' of throw to play with.
This sketch represents the 15'-long section of foundation wall at the back of the equipment closet. The light blue outline represents the maximum 8'x4.5' screen size that I'm planning for, traced through from the theater wall in front of this wall.
This must be painfully non-metric for all of the non-Americans on this forum, except the Brits and some of their other former colonists.
I'm wondering if I'm going to make our builder's head explode when he sees the drawing below.
Yes. In reality you want a 5x3 window with a box built around it that's weatherproof and has power, cabling and ventillation. Don't forget those. Plus it will be a bear to install your projector in there. Rails perhaps.
Make sure the opening is big enough not to clip the projected image.
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I started thinking about two-piece rear projection instead of front projection, but the challenge has been finding a high-quality projector with short enough a "throw" to create a big picture with less than five feet of throw being available, which is all the throw I could get from behind the screen in the previous floor plan.
Many japanese projectors have short throw lenses. Many of the high end projectors have both long and short throw lenses.
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Since a short throw hugely limited projector choice, and/or meant smaller screens or expensive tricks with adapter lenses or mirror systems of unknown picture quality, I decided to play around with the idea of simply creating a bit more throw room:
The 1st surface mirrors used for this are high quality. Of course, they cost $7500 for a 106" set (including screen fortunately).
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I may not go as big as an 8'-wide screen (that's 110" diagonal for 16:9) at first because of the trade-off between screen size and brightness. Since I'm picky about color quality I'm thinking about using a Sony VPL-VW200, which is a great projector but a bit shy on total light output. Cheaper but brighter alternatives seem to suffer a lot from inaccurate color, at least from the reviews I've read.
In a RP scenario I think you can go 110" if you can tolerate a little gain (and resulting smaller viewing cone). Remember that in this scenario it's transmissive rather than reflective and you have good light control. Room reflections will impact black levels far less and also have less impact on the image in general. It wouldn't be quite as much a push as in a FP setup.
I'd get a less expensive model than the VW200 and plan on decreasing your update cycle by half (whatever it is you're planning). It's still a $15K+ projector and 2 $7K projectors likely means far higher performance for 2nd half the lifecycle and reasonably close performance for the 1st half.
DILA/SXRD and LCD has seen massive improvement in the last couple-three years. Neither seems topped out or slowing.
Yes. In reality you want a 5x3 window with a box built around it that's weatherproof and has power, cabling and ventillation. Don't forget those. Plus it will be a bear to install your projector in there. Rails perhaps.
The theater is in the basement, so this would be more like a very short underground tunnel than a window box. It just needs to be a concrete shell. No power outlets or special cabling are needed -- a long extension cord will suffice and long HDMI cable running along the floor will suffice. The whole thing is hidden from view, and does not need to look pretty. A 5'x3'x7'-3" box, with a full 5'x3' opening at one end, won't need any special ventilation at all.
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Make sure the opening is big enough not to clip the projected image.
With a few inches to spare -- I've worked out the geometry. If the builders can't place the alcove precisely relative to the finished theater, however, they'd be better off adding a few extra inches of height and width to be on the safe side.
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Many japanese projectors have short throw lenses. Many of the high end projectors have both long and short throw lenses.
How short is short? The smallest throw ratio I've found in a stand-alone 1080p projector so far was 0.75, but this appeared to be a very expensive projector where you have to find a dealer and contact them for a price. Among all of the 1080p projectors for which I've found good reviews, I haven't seen any throw ratios below 1.3, often not lower than 1.4. One of the recently highly-rated projectors at projectorcentral.com, the InFocus IN83, when zoomed to the max has a throw ratio of 1.85, which means it would have to be nearly 15' away from an 8'-wide screen.
It might be possible to find shorter throws among 1024x768 data-grade projectors, but that won't help me here. When screen sizes get much larger than 50" diagonal, the difference between 768 lines and 1080 lines becomes important.
I found some adapter lenses for nearly $2000 which increase picture size by 50%, which is the same as cutting throw by 33%, but I have no idea what effect on picture geometry, color refraction, or light output such lenses would have.
Even if I could achieve a very short throw, a short throw also requires special, more expensive screen material so that light hitting the screen near the edges of the screen, at a shallow angle, is refracted properly to shine mostly forward on the other side of the screen. A 110" lenticular screen built to the same specs as even a cheap one-piece rear projector screen would cost a fortune, would be expensive to ship (you can't roll or fold them), and might be impossible to navigate through doors and hallways into your house.
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The 1st surface mirrors used for this are high quality. Of course, they cost $7500 for a 106" set (including screen fortunately).
Another reason I'd rather go for a low-tech $5000 hole in the ground.
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I'd get a less expensive model than the VW200 and plan on decreasing your update cycle by half (whatever it is you're planning). It's still a $15K+ projector and 2 $7K projectors likely means far higher performance for 2nd half the lifecycle and reasonably close performance for the 1st half.
The street price of a VW200 is more like $11K. I might also consider a JVC DLA-RS2, which lists for $8K. (I haven't seen any trustworthy lower street prices yet.) I could go quite a bit lower in price with something like a Panasonic PT-AE2000, but I don't know how satisfied I'd be with that based on some of the negative points I see brought up in reviews.
The theater is in the basement, so this would be more like a very short underground tunnel than a window box. It just needs to be a concrete shell. No power outlets or special cabling are needed -- a long extension cord will suffice and long HDMI cable running along the floor will suffice. The whole thing is hidden from view, and does not need to look pretty. A 5'x3'x7'-3" box, with a full 5'x3' opening at one end, won't need any special ventilation at all.
Ah, I guess it depends on how well the air circulates and it seems like a large enough area that it shouldn't be an issue.
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How short is short?
Not too sure. My setup accomodates a medum level of throw so I've only just noted that projectors designed for the Japanese HT market had shorter throws than say InFocus.
I think Meridian, Runco, et al have optional configurations or lens options for short throw installs (like for RP).
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The street price of a VW200 is more like $11K. I might also consider a JVC DLA-RS2, which lists for $8K. (I haven't seen any trustworthy lower street prices yet.) I could go quite a bit lower in price with something like a Panasonic PT-AE2000, but I don't know how satisfied I'd be with that based on some of the negative points I see brought up in reviews.
Well, you could go with the VPL-VW60. I'd likely go the Epson Home Cinema 1080UB route. Very good blacks, good skin tones, HDMI 1.3 Deep Color, blah blah.
Half the price of the RS1x. For $2700ish I can buy about 4 generations of these for the cost of a VW200 and I'm betting that model #2 will equal it, and #3 and #4 exceed it's performance.
Eh...you know size matters. Whatever you choose is going to be better than the 72" RPTV when it comes to watching movies.
Ah, nothing like high-tech problem solving techniques:
Just in case my strange projector alcove isn't feasible, which is likely, I was wondering just how much I could achieve using a first-surface mirror, still assuming a throw ratio of 1.5. The easiest way I could think of to figure out a workable light path was to draw it out on paper and physically fold the paper to represent the mirror placement, with the fold starting a little short of a line drawn through the light path representing the back wall of the room behind the screen.
I scaled down my max screen size to 80"x45" -- if I can't get my projector alcove, and I decide to go bigger, I can always revert to front projection. Each square of the paper represents 3 inches. I rounded the screen height up to 48", didn't count the few inches of extra throw I'd get from the thickness of the wall the screen sits in front of, and fattened the end of the light path to 6", all so I'd err on the safe side with a bit of slack for error.
This folding exercise shows me I can make rear projection work using a mirror of about 30"x54", having the screen start at least 30" above the floor, and using a small box that intrudes into the theater room below the screen to hold the projector.
Another smaller mirror could put the projector fully back into the equipment closet, but that would making walking through the closet very awkward, and I don't mind the idea of the projector box under the screen that much anyway, although it could interview with center channel placement a little bit.
Ah, nothing like high-tech problem solving techniques:
Just in case my strange projector alcove isn't feasible, which is likely, I was wondering just how much I could achieve using a first-surface mirror, still assuming a throw ratio of 1.5. The easiest way I could think of to figure out a workable light path was to draw it out on paper and physically fold the paper to represent the mirror placement, with the fold starting a little short of a line drawn through the light path representing the back wall of the room behind the screen.
I scaled down my max screen size to 80"x45" -- if I can't get my projector alcove, and I decide to go bigger, I can always revert to front projection. Each square of the paper represents 3 inches. I rounded the screen height up to 48", didn't count the few inches of extra throw I'd get from the thickness of the wall the screen sits in front of, and fattened the end of the light path to 6", all so I'd err on the safe side with a bit of slack for error.
This folding exercise shows me I can make rear projection work using a mirror of about 30"x54", having the screen start at least 30" above the floor, and using a small box that intrudes into the theater room below the screen to hold the projector.
Another smaller mirror could put the projector fully back into the equipment closet, but that would making walking through the closet very awkward, and I don't mind the idea of the projector box under the screen that much anyway, although it could interview with center channel placement a little bit.
I'd like to interject here and post something that, while it will sound harsh, is meant to be helpful.
You've gone off the deep end.
I say this only as someone that has built a home. It's OK buddy. It happens to us all. Stop and think about what you're suggesting now. Mirrors? Alcoves? $5000 extra? Dude. I implore you....come back to us. Do not go to the light.
Do these projectors have a setting that "reverses" the projected picture?... You'll need that if you were to go with that mirror idea. You know... like trying to read a book by looking at it's reflection in a mirror?
Do these projectors have a setting that "reverses" the projected picture?... You'll need that if you were to go with that mirror idea. You know... like trying to read a book by looking at it's reflection in a mirror?
Most expensive projectors do have settings to flip the picture either horizontally or vertically or both, but that's something I would need to check on a case-by-case basis. It's not made obvious in the specs or most reviews.
Straight-on rear projection will produce an upright but mirrored image if not adjusted from front projection defaults.
[Edit: fixing an earlier mistake]
Bouncing off a mirror, which is useful for compressing a long projection path, will reverse that mirroring, so without making any adjustment to front projection defaults you'll end up with a properly oriented picture.
Dude. I implore you....come back to us. Do not go to the light.
I like the light. It's pretty!
Seriously, as housing goes compared to income level, I'm well within a reasonable budget here, so I don't mind spending a little extra to get just what I want. And while this might be a weird architectural feature, as long as it's properly water-tight and structurally sound (I won't do it if it isn't), it shouldn't detract from the value of the house. Any potential future buyer can simply ignore the space, use it for storage, a build a wall safe if they have no use putting a projector in there.
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Originally Posted by vinea
The light you see if from his awesome 110" RP setup.
However, I do question how well the tunnel will avoid cracks and leaks.
That's why I'm letting the builder have the final say. If he's too wary about this, I'll drop it.
Seriously, as housing goes compared to income level, I'm well within a reasonable budget here, so I don't mind spending a little extra to get just what I want. And while this might be a weird architectural feature, as long as it's properly water-tight and structurally sound (I won't do it if it isn't), it shouldn't detract from the value of the house. Any potential future buyer can simply ignore the space, use it for storage, a build a wall safe if they have no use putting a projector in there.
That's why I'm letting the builder have the final say. If he's too wary about this, I'll drop it.
I just think you should take a step back. I don't disagree about resale and I'm sure your budget is fine. I just think you're going to make this thing to complex that it will be more trouble than its worth. It's the old Keep It Simple Stupid thing. Mirrors and alcoves watertightness and oh my God...I'm warning you. Get a really fucking awesome projection set or even a $15-30K LCD set or something. You could get one hell of a setup for that kind of money.
I don't think I would have the alcove built even if the builder thought it was ok. The earth around the house will settle in a few years and I would expect it to the alcove with it since it is not sitting on the foundation. Even a very small change can quickly cause cracks and leakage leading to a moldy alcove or worse. There is a lot of mass around the alcove with no way to keep it at the same elevation as the house.
When we built our house 18 years ago I ran security for all windows, doors, outside lights and smoke/fire. Since you have animals inside motion detectors are not a good idea. Insurance is also cheaper if you have it monitored. Have your smoke and carbon monoxide detectors connected to the security system. That way an alarm in the basement will heard and seen at each keypad. Having an alarm and not hearing it does you no good.
As for running CAT cabling, run it for the basement and 1st floor rooms. Wired network printers and scanners have a lot less problems than ones on wireless networks. 2nd floor equipment can use the wireless. We have some old computers, Mac and PC, that cannot get on the newer wireless networks. Having a wired port keeps them useful.
Access and pull boxes are great to have. Utilities usually come inside in the corner of the basement. The house risers are usually in the center of the house. Run a couple of 2 1/2" PVC pipes from the utility area to the basement riser area and then access box at each floor and the attic. One can be used for power the other everything else.
We have intercom sub stations in all rooms. Well worth what we paid.
Zone your heating and cooling.
A friend of ours also raised the floor in the back part of his basement TV room. The raised area has a sofa and 2 recliners with tables between each. Great for football games and fights.
Now that I've played around with the geometry a bit, it looks like I could still manage to do rear projection (if that turns out to be the way I want to go) with one under-$1000 first surface mirror, using a 6"-deep equipment closet, even for screen sizes up to 110" diagonal, although at the upper end of screen sizes there might have to be a projector enclosure box that protrudes into the theater room, under or over the screen.
I'd love to do solar heating and power, but it's still way too expensive for me -- unless you know of something that's cheaper than what I've heard of. If eventually I can afford it, all I'd have to do is convince a majority of five other households in a small six-home association.
We are doing what we can to improve the efficiency of the house, with 2x6 exterior walls, paying a few thousands extra for better insulation, double-pane windows (those I think might even be required by code at this point), and an updated HVAC system that will easily be more efficient than what we have in the current house.
I gotta throw in my 2 cents here.
Spend the money on the solar water heating at the very least. Your local utility probably has a cash rebate for it, and your state may have one as too (as we do here in Florida). I just finished building 2 prototype zero-energy homes here in Gainesville, and solar water heating was standard on both of them. The photovoltaics can get expensive, up to $9/watt, and the payoff period is usally about 25-30 years on those. The payback on the solar waterheating is only 5-7 years.
Another bonus: the Fed will give you a $2000 tax credit for installing a solar water system on you house. I'm not talking about a deduction, I am talking about a credit. So when you fill out your taxes for 2008, and you get to the end of the 1040 and owe $6,732 (or whatever), solar water heating takes $2000 off of that number. Oh, and photovoltaics will take another $2000 off.
Spend the money on the solar water heating at the very least. Your local utility probably has a cash rebate for it, and your state may have one as too (as we do here in Florida). I just finished building 2 prototype zero-energy homes here in Gainesville, and solar water heating was standard on both of them. The photovoltaics can get expensive, up to $9/watt, and the payoff period is usally about 25-30 years on those. The payback on the solar waterheating is only 5-7 years.
Another bonus: the Fed will give you a $2000 tax credit for installing a solar water system on you house. I'm not talking about a deduction, I am talking about a credit. So when you fill out your taxes for 2008, and you get to the end of the 1040 and owe $6,732 (or whatever), solar water heating takes $2000 off of that number. Oh, and photovoltaics will take another $2000 off.
Food for thought.
Interesting.
Are you including the tax credit in the 5-7 year payback period?
Now that I've played around with the geometry a bit, it looks like I could still manage to do rear projection (if that turns out to be the way I want to go) with one under-$1000 first surface mirror, using a 6"-deep equipment closet, even for screen sizes up to 110" diagonal, although at the upper end of screen sizes there might have to be a projector enclosure box that protrudes into the theater room, under or over the screen.
Question: Why are you set on rear projection? I've never really seen one, so I don't know. What is the issue with getting a $5,000-$15,000 front projector?
Also, since your budget seems considerable, have you considered something like this:
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I agree with vinea, don't put in separate telephone wires. When I had my house built 12 years ago, I had CAT5 cable installed (in conduit) with dual RJ45 ports in all rooms. These are all connected to a pair of 32 port RJ45 patch panels. This way I can reconfigure any port in the house for LAN, ISDN or analogue telephone.
I was definitely planning on a patch panel. If you're using RJ45 ports, do you need some sort of RJ45->RJ11 adapter for use with a standard telephone? Maybe I'm not being imaginative enough, but it seems to me I'd be pretty happy with one CAT6a cable plus one 4-conductor phone line, each terminated with RJ45 and RJ11 jacks, respectively.
I also had additional plumbing installed to two locations; the loft for a future bathroom as the kids get older, and the basement for a kitchen if we decide to convert a few rooms to a rentable apartment.
We're only two people living in this house, but we're going to have five bathrooms, four of which you can take a bath in. It insane. The top floor has dual master suites, each with their own bathroom. Those two bathrooms have their own shower stalls, but share a jacuzzi tub between them, Jack-and-Jill style. I guess I'd call that two 7/8 baths.
With the top floor, ground floor, and basement each having a "public" bathroom, that gets us up to five bathrooms. Crazy, but it's only costing a few thousand dollars extra and the end result will be awfully convenient, and all the bathrooms will be a good selling point if this house is every sold to a bigger family.
I specified an extra pocket door in the floor plan of the top floor which will allow a guest in our guest room to close off public access to the other bathroom, making the guest room and bath a small private suite.
We have central sucking. Think about where you will store the hose. I wish I had built a small closet just for its storage. It hangs in the laundry room now and isn't very convenient.
It would $800 per hose I think (not sure of the exact pricing), so I don't know if it's worth the expense considering we'd need at least three of them, but there's a cool retractable hose system that can fit into a 2x4 wall cavity.
I hope we're not trying his patience too much with all of our design tweaks. I didn't want to suggest any more floor plan changes at this point. Nothing has been built yet, however, so I want to make this suggestion while I can, even if it's a crazy idea, and even if it comes a little annoying late in the planning process.
I started thinking about two-piece rear projection instead of front projection, but the challenge has been finding a high-quality projector with short enough a "throw" to create a big picture with less than five feet of throw being available, which is all the throw I could get from behind the screen in the previous floor plan.
Since a short throw hugely limited projector choice, and/or meant smaller screens or expensive tricks with adapter lenses or mirror systems of unknown picture quality, I decided to play around with the idea of simply creating a bit more throw room:
The change I made was to add a "projector alcove" to the equipment room of the home theater. The alcove would end up underneath the front porch, and I don't know if this would introduce any big structural challenges or not. I also made what I call the "equipment closet" 6' deep, up from 5', which makes the theater proper a little smaller, but still leaves it a good size.
I may not go as big as an 8'-wide screen (that's 110" diagonal for 16:9) at first because of the trade-off between screen size and brightness. Since I'm picky about color quality I'm thinking about using a Sony VPL-VW200, which is a great projector but a bit shy on total light output. Cheaper but brighter alternatives seem to suffer a lot from inaccurate color, at least from the reviews I've read.
It's very hard to find many projector demos of different brands locally so that I could judge for myself in person what's going to satisfy me for picture quality.
By the way, thick walls with good acoustic insulation, plus heavy doors with weather stripping, are being used to help sound-proof the theater. Even though the theater is in the basement near the furnace and other utilities, it should be very quiet.
This sketch represents the 15'-long section of foundation wall at the back of the equipment closet. The light blue outline represents the maximum 8'x4.5' screen size that I'm planning for, traced through from the theater wall in front of this wall.
This must be painfully non-metric for all of the non-Americans on this forum, except the Brits and some of their other former colonists.
I'm wondering if I'm going to make our builder's head explode when he sees the drawing below.
Yes.
Make sure the opening is big enough not to clip the projected image.
I started thinking about two-piece rear projection instead of front projection, but the challenge has been finding a high-quality projector with short enough a "throw" to create a big picture with less than five feet of throw being available, which is all the throw I could get from behind the screen in the previous floor plan.
Many japanese projectors have short throw lenses. Many of the high end projectors have both long and short throw lenses.
Since a short throw hugely limited projector choice, and/or meant smaller screens or expensive tricks with adapter lenses or mirror systems of unknown picture quality, I decided to play around with the idea of simply creating a bit more throw room:
The 1st surface mirrors used for this are high quality. Of course, they cost $7500 for a 106" set (including screen fortunately).
I may not go as big as an 8'-wide screen (that's 110" diagonal for 16:9) at first because of the trade-off between screen size and brightness. Since I'm picky about color quality I'm thinking about using a Sony VPL-VW200, which is a great projector but a bit shy on total light output. Cheaper but brighter alternatives seem to suffer a lot from inaccurate color, at least from the reviews I've read.
In a RP scenario I think you can go 110" if you can tolerate a little gain (and resulting smaller viewing cone). Remember that in this scenario it's transmissive rather than reflective and you have good light control. Room reflections will impact black levels far less and also have less impact on the image in general. It wouldn't be quite as much a push as in a FP setup.
I'd get a less expensive model than the VW200 and plan on decreasing your update cycle by half (whatever it is you're planning). It's still a $15K+ projector and 2 $7K projectors likely means far higher performance for 2nd half the lifecycle and reasonably close performance for the 1st half.
DILA/SXRD and LCD has seen massive improvement in the last couple-three years. Neither seems topped out or slowing.
Yes.
The theater is in the basement, so this would be more like a very short underground tunnel than a window box. It just needs to be a concrete shell. No power outlets or special cabling are needed -- a long extension cord will suffice and long HDMI cable running along the floor will suffice. The whole thing is hidden from view, and does not need to look pretty. A 5'x3'x7'-3" box, with a full 5'x3' opening at one end, won't need any special ventilation at all.
Make sure the opening is big enough not to clip the projected image.
With a few inches to spare -- I've worked out the geometry. If the builders can't place the alcove precisely relative to the finished theater, however, they'd be better off adding a few extra inches of height and width to be on the safe side.
Many japanese projectors have short throw lenses. Many of the high end projectors have both long and short throw lenses.
How short is short? The smallest throw ratio I've found in a stand-alone 1080p projector so far was 0.75, but this appeared to be a very expensive projector where you have to find a dealer and contact them for a price. Among all of the 1080p projectors for which I've found good reviews, I haven't seen any throw ratios below 1.3, often not lower than 1.4. One of the recently highly-rated projectors at projectorcentral.com, the InFocus IN83, when zoomed to the max has a throw ratio of 1.85, which means it would have to be nearly 15' away from an 8'-wide screen.
It might be possible to find shorter throws among 1024x768 data-grade projectors, but that won't help me here. When screen sizes get much larger than 50" diagonal, the difference between 768 lines and 1080 lines becomes important.
I found some adapter lenses for nearly $2000 which increase picture size by 50%, which is the same as cutting throw by 33%, but I have no idea what effect on picture geometry, color refraction, or light output such lenses would have.
Even if I could achieve a very short throw, a short throw also requires special, more expensive screen material so that light hitting the screen near the edges of the screen, at a shallow angle, is refracted properly to shine mostly forward on the other side of the screen. A 110" lenticular screen built to the same specs as even a cheap one-piece rear projector screen would cost a fortune, would be expensive to ship (you can't roll or fold them), and might be impossible to navigate through doors and hallways into your house.
The 1st surface mirrors used for this are high quality. Of course, they cost $7500 for a 106" set (including screen fortunately).
Another reason I'd rather go for a low-tech $5000 hole in the ground.
I'd get a less expensive model than the VW200 and plan on decreasing your update cycle by half (whatever it is you're planning). It's still a $15K+ projector and 2 $7K projectors likely means far higher performance for 2nd half the lifecycle and reasonably close performance for the 1st half.
The street price of a VW200 is more like $11K. I might also consider a JVC DLA-RS2, which lists for $8K. (I haven't seen any trustworthy lower street prices yet.) I could go quite a bit lower in price with something like a Panasonic PT-AE2000, but I don't know how satisfied I'd be with that based on some of the negative points I see brought up in reviews.
The theater is in the basement, so this would be more like a very short underground tunnel than a window box. It just needs to be a concrete shell. No power outlets or special cabling are needed -- a long extension cord will suffice and long HDMI cable running along the floor will suffice. The whole thing is hidden from view, and does not need to look pretty. A 5'x3'x7'-3" box, with a full 5'x3' opening at one end, won't need any special ventilation at all.
Ah, I guess it depends on how well the air circulates and it seems like a large enough area that it shouldn't be an issue.
How short is short?
Not too sure. My setup accomodates a medum level of throw so I've only just noted that projectors designed for the Japanese HT market had shorter throws than say InFocus.
I think Meridian, Runco, et al have optional configurations or lens options for short throw installs (like for RP).
The street price of a VW200 is more like $11K. I might also consider a JVC DLA-RS2, which lists for $8K. (I haven't seen any trustworthy lower street prices yet.) I could go quite a bit lower in price with something like a Panasonic PT-AE2000, but I don't know how satisfied I'd be with that based on some of the negative points I see brought up in reviews.
Well, you could go with the VPL-VW60. I'd likely go the Epson Home Cinema 1080UB route. Very good blacks, good skin tones, HDMI 1.3 Deep Color, blah blah.
Half the price of the RS1x.
Eh...you know size matters. Whatever you choose is going to be better than the 72" RPTV when it comes to watching movies.
Just in case my strange projector alcove isn't feasible, which is likely, I was wondering just how much I could achieve using a first-surface mirror, still assuming a throw ratio of 1.5. The easiest way I could think of to figure out a workable light path was to draw it out on paper and physically fold the paper to represent the mirror placement, with the fold starting a little short of a line drawn through the light path representing the back wall of the room behind the screen.
I scaled down my max screen size to 80"x45" -- if I can't get my projector alcove, and I decide to go bigger, I can always revert to front projection. Each square of the paper represents 3 inches. I rounded the screen height up to 48", didn't count the few inches of extra throw I'd get from the thickness of the wall the screen sits in front of, and fattened the end of the light path to 6", all so I'd err on the safe side with a bit of slack for error.
This folding exercise shows me I can make rear projection work using a mirror of about 30"x54", having the screen start at least 30" above the floor, and using a small box that intrudes into the theater room below the screen to hold the projector.
Another smaller mirror could put the projector fully back into the equipment closet, but that would making walking through the closet very awkward, and I don't mind the idea of the projector box under the screen that much anyway, although it could interview with center channel placement a little bit.
Ah, nothing like high-tech problem solving techniques:
Just in case my strange projector alcove isn't feasible, which is likely, I was wondering just how much I could achieve using a first-surface mirror, still assuming a throw ratio of 1.5. The easiest way I could think of to figure out a workable light path was to draw it out on paper and physically fold the paper to represent the mirror placement, with the fold starting a little short of a line drawn through the light path representing the back wall of the room behind the screen.
I scaled down my max screen size to 80"x45" -- if I can't get my projector alcove, and I decide to go bigger, I can always revert to front projection. Each square of the paper represents 3 inches. I rounded the screen height up to 48", didn't count the few inches of extra throw I'd get from the thickness of the wall the screen sits in front of, and fattened the end of the light path to 6", all so I'd err on the safe side with a bit of slack for error.
This folding exercise shows me I can make rear projection work using a mirror of about 30"x54", having the screen start at least 30" above the floor, and using a small box that intrudes into the theater room below the screen to hold the projector.
Another smaller mirror could put the projector fully back into the equipment closet, but that would making walking through the closet very awkward, and I don't mind the idea of the projector box under the screen that much anyway, although it could interview with center channel placement a little bit.
I'd like to interject here and post something that, while it will sound harsh, is meant to be helpful.
You've gone off the deep end.
I say this only as someone that has built a home. It's OK buddy. It happens to us all. Stop and think about what you're suggesting now. Mirrors? Alcoves? $5000 extra? Dude. I implore you....come back to us. Do not go to the light.
Do not go to the light.
The light you see if from his awesome 110" RP setup.
However, I do question how well the tunnel will avoid cracks and leaks.
Do these projectors have a setting that "reverses" the projected picture?... You'll need that if you were to go with that mirror idea. You know... like trying to read a book by looking at it's reflection in a mirror?
Most expensive projectors do have settings to flip the picture either horizontally or vertically or both, but that's something I would need to check on a case-by-case basis. It's not made obvious in the specs or most reviews.
Straight-on rear projection will produce an upright but mirrored image if not adjusted from front projection defaults.
[Edit: fixing an earlier mistake]
Bouncing off a mirror, which is useful for compressing a long projection path, will reverse that mirroring, so without making any adjustment to front projection defaults you'll end up with a properly oriented picture.
Dude. I implore you....come back to us. Do not go to the light.
I like the light. It's pretty!
Seriously, as housing goes compared to income level, I'm well within a reasonable budget here, so I don't mind spending a little extra to get just what I want. And while this might be a weird architectural feature, as long as it's properly water-tight and structurally sound (I won't do it if it isn't), it shouldn't detract from the value of the house. Any potential future buyer can simply ignore the space, use it for storage, a build a wall safe if they have no use putting a projector in there.
The light you see if from his awesome 110" RP setup.
However, I do question how well the tunnel will avoid cracks and leaks.
That's why I'm letting the builder have the final say. If he's too wary about this, I'll drop it.
I like the light. It's pretty!
Seriously, as housing goes compared to income level, I'm well within a reasonable budget here, so I don't mind spending a little extra to get just what I want. And while this might be a weird architectural feature, as long as it's properly water-tight and structurally sound (I won't do it if it isn't), it shouldn't detract from the value of the house. Any potential future buyer can simply ignore the space, use it for storage, a build a wall safe if they have no use putting a projector in there.
That's why I'm letting the builder have the final say. If he's too wary about this, I'll drop it.
I just think you should take a step back. I don't disagree about resale and I'm sure your budget is fine. I just think you're going to make this thing to complex that it will be more trouble than its worth. It's the old Keep It Simple Stupid thing. Mirrors and alcoves watertightness and oh my God...I'm warning you. Get a really fucking awesome projection set or even a $15-30K LCD set or something. You could get one hell of a setup for that kind of money.
As for running CAT cabling, run it for the basement and 1st floor rooms. Wired network printers and scanners have a lot less problems than ones on wireless networks. 2nd floor equipment can use the wireless. We have some old computers, Mac and PC, that cannot get on the newer wireless networks. Having a wired port keeps them useful.
Access and pull boxes are great to have. Utilities usually come inside in the corner of the basement. The house risers are usually in the center of the house. Run a couple of 2 1/2" PVC pipes from the utility area to the basement riser area and then access box at each floor and the attic. One can be used for power the other everything else.
We have intercom sub stations in all rooms. Well worth what we paid.
Zone your heating and cooling.
A friend of ours also raised the floor in the back part of his basement TV room. The raised area has a sofa and 2 recliners with tables between each. Great for football games and fights.
Now that I've played around with the geometry a bit, it looks like I could still manage to do rear projection (if that turns out to be the way I want to go) with one under-$1000 first surface mirror, using a 6"-deep equipment closet, even for screen sizes up to 110" diagonal, although at the upper end of screen sizes there might have to be a projector enclosure box that protrudes into the theater room, under or over the screen.
I'd love to do solar heating and power, but it's still way too expensive for me -- unless you know of something that's cheaper than what I've heard of. If eventually I can afford it, all I'd have to do is convince a majority of five other households in a small six-home association.
We are doing what we can to improve the efficiency of the house, with 2x6 exterior walls, paying a few thousands extra for better insulation, double-pane windows (those I think might even be required by code at this point), and an updated HVAC system that will easily be more efficient than what we have in the current house.
I gotta throw in my 2 cents here.
Spend the money on the solar water heating at the very least. Your local utility probably has a cash rebate for it, and your state may have one as too (as we do here in Florida). I just finished building 2 prototype zero-energy homes here in Gainesville, and solar water heating was standard on both of them. The photovoltaics can get expensive, up to $9/watt, and the payoff period is usally about 25-30 years on those. The payback on the solar waterheating is only 5-7 years.
Another bonus: the Fed will give you a $2000 tax credit for installing a solar water system on you house. I'm not talking about a deduction, I am talking about a credit. So when you fill out your taxes for 2008, and you get to the end of the 1040 and owe $6,732 (or whatever), solar water heating takes $2000 off of that number. Oh, and photovoltaics will take another $2000 off.
Food for thought.
I gotta throw in my 2 cents here.
Spend the money on the solar water heating at the very least. Your local utility probably has a cash rebate for it, and your state may have one as too (as we do here in Florida). I just finished building 2 prototype zero-energy homes here in Gainesville, and solar water heating was standard on both of them. The photovoltaics can get expensive, up to $9/watt, and the payoff period is usally about 25-30 years on those. The payback on the solar waterheating is only 5-7 years.
Another bonus: the Fed will give you a $2000 tax credit for installing a solar water system on you house. I'm not talking about a deduction, I am talking about a credit. So when you fill out your taxes for 2008, and you get to the end of the 1040 and owe $6,732 (or whatever), solar water heating takes $2000 off of that number. Oh, and photovoltaics will take another $2000 off.
Food for thought.
Interesting.
Are you including the tax credit in the 5-7 year payback period?
The projector alcove is dead... not unexpected.
Now that I've played around with the geometry a bit, it looks like I could still manage to do rear projection (if that turns out to be the way I want to go) with one under-$1000 first surface mirror, using a 6"-deep equipment closet, even for screen sizes up to 110" diagonal, although at the upper end of screen sizes there might have to be a projector enclosure box that protrudes into the theater room, under or over the screen.
Question: Why are you set on rear projection? I've never really seen one, so I don't know. What is the issue with getting a $5,000-$15,000 front projector?
Also, since your budget seems considerable, have you considered something like this:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1179877503499