The market clearly disagrees with you. Apple's notebook market share is growing very rapidly. I can imagine Apple perhaps lowering the entry price of the MacBook to $999, but I don't see the need. Apple's technology lead over Microsoft continues to grow.
I don't need to be told Apple is doing well. I'm saying Apple could do better. A lot better, in some markets.
Apple is hugely successful because they are a music and digital audio company...
I wouldn't jump to these sort of conclusions so quickly. If I remember correctly, Apple's most profitable products remain their Macintosh line of computers, and the majority of their revenue is still derived from Mac sales. To say that Apple is hugely successful because of their music efforts is definitely valid, however hyperbolic. It is perhaps not as much of a stretch to say that their brand has become hugely successful because of their efforts in the music market, but then again, the Apple brand has always been a strong, premium brand. If you were following the company in 1997 when SJ returned, he emphasized the popularity of the Apple brand, even at that time, and how they were going to leverage that popularity in Apple's resurgence. Looks like that idea turned out, doesn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow
And if Apple was depending on computer profits alone, it would be a very different company.
Hold on. You seem to imply that you have any idea what Apple would look like without the iPod? I submit that Apple may have turned out better without the iPod. The iPod (and now the iPhone) is a significant drain on R&D on Apple. It could be possible, as you speculate, that the Mac would be even farther advanced at this time if the iPod had not happened. I personally believe that Apple's Mac lines have suffered to some extent since the popularity of the iPod in 2003/04, having followed the company some 12 years (I was born in 1988), and researched its products from before my awareness of computers. Apple was surviving just fine on revenues from its computers prior to the iPod, thank you very much. Ever heard of products like the G3 iMac, Powermac G4, and TiBook G4? Paradigm shifting computers, all ahead of their time, all hugely profitable, and all prior to the iPod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow
I'm saying Apple could do better. A lot better, in some markets.
Perhaps. I, however, believe that Apple continuously undertakes huge feasibility studies regarding new product launches, in an effort to determine the most profitable markets to enter. As noted above, the low-end markets are not profitable markets. Margins are low, support costs are high, and most importantly, the quality of the OS X experience is significantly diluted with the cheaper components. Essentially, Apple can either a) maintain margins through using cheaper, slower components that reduce the OS X experience, or b) lower margins and retain better components to maintain the OS X experience, but make a ton less money. Neither are good options, hence nothing cheaper than a Mac mini at this time. Don't bank on anything cheaper than a Macbook or Mac mini coming out of Apple in a while either, at least until one of the above issues (a or b) can be resolved.
Hold on. You seem to imply that you have any idea what Apple would look like without the iPod? I submit that Apple may have turned out better without the iPod. The iPod (and now the iPhone) is a significant drain on R&D on Apple. It could be possible, as you speculate, that the Mac would be even farther advanced at this time if the iPod had not happened. I personally believe that Apple's Mac lines have suffered to some extent since the popularity of the iPod in 2003/04, having followed the company some 12 years (I was born in 1988), and researched its products from before my awareness of computers. Apple was surviving just fine on revenues from its computers prior to the iPod, thank you very much. Ever heard of products like the G3 iMac, Powermac G4, and TiBook G4? Paradigm shifting computers, all ahead of their time, all hugely profitable, and all prior to the iPod.
I disagree with your submission. Macs may have turned out to be marginally better than they are right now, but I don't believe it would be a significant factor in Apple's success. It certainly wouldn't have brought the MASSIVE amount of attention that the iPod and iPhone have brought to Apple. The company's brand awareness has skyrocketed because they delivered product to a wide audience that doesn't care about the kind of computer they use. This audience wouldn't have noticed the incremental improvement that a total Mac-focus would have delivered, but due to iPod (and now iPhone) many of them are in Apple Stores... and noticing the Mac.
Yes, Apple survived on all those great Macs of the past (and future), but barely. By branching out of the computer market they have dramatically broadened their appeal. They have also created something of an eco-system between their various products. Sure you can use an iPod or iPhone with a Windows machine... but it works better with the Mac, and it looks like it belongs next to a Mac. I've been a Mac user since '85 or so, and it sure is a relief to see Apple branching out a little and really taking advantage of its hardware/software integration capabilities. I have a great deal more faith in their ability to survive now that there is some diversification in their product line.
I've been a Mac user since '85 or so, and it sure is a relief to see Apple branching out a little and really taking advantage of its hardware/software integration capabilities. I have a great deal more faith in their ability to survive now that there is some diversification in their product line.
This is exactly right. My previous comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek; I just wanted to provide a different perspective than the other posters' idea that the iPod/iPhone are now solely sustaining Apple. As an Apple shareholder and Mac user for many years as well, I am absolutely ecstatic about the iPod, the iPod, the iTS, the AppleTV, and all their future pursuits that are not Macs. I simply wanted to provide a little balance to the discussion and perhaps lead people in the direction that nobody knows exactly what would have happened in any other scenario than the one we are currently in.
Thanks for your comments, I do agree wholeheartedly.
In any case, I'm hoping for a MBP overhaul before Sept 1.
I disagree with your submission. Macs may have turned out to be marginally better than they are right now, but I don't believe it would be a significant factor in Apple's success. It certainly wouldn't have brought the MASSIVE amount of attention that the iPod and iPhone have brought to Apple. The company's brand awareness has skyrocketed because they delivered product to a wide audience that doesn't care about the kind of computer they use. This audience wouldn't have noticed the incremental improvement that a total Mac-focus would have delivered, but due to iPod (and now iPhone) many of them are in Apple Stores... and noticing the Mac.
Yes, Apple survived on all those great Macs of the past (and future), but barely. By branching out of the computer market they have dramatically broadened their appeal. They have also created something of an eco-system between their various products. Sure you can use an iPod or iPhone with a Windows machine... but it works better with the Mac, and it looks like it belongs next to a Mac. I've been a Mac user since '85 or so, and it sure is a relief to see Apple branching out a little and really taking advantage of its hardware/software integration capabilities. I have a great deal more faith in their ability to survive now that there is some diversification in their product line.
Ya - I'm no expert, but the profits garnered from the iPod's success invariably allowed Apple to hire more R&D guys and more engineers etc., not only to work on the iPod/iPhone, but also to work on the Mac and AppleTV and whatever else the company is working on.
Comments
The market clearly disagrees with you. Apple's notebook market share is growing very rapidly. I can imagine Apple perhaps lowering the entry price of the MacBook to $999, but I don't see the need. Apple's technology lead over Microsoft continues to grow.
I don't need to be told Apple is doing well. I'm saying Apple could do better. A lot better, in some markets.
I'm saying Apple could do better. A lot better, in some markets.
Profits are more important than market share. You have given no evidence that Apple's profitability would improve by cutting MacBook prices.
Apple is hugely successful because they are a music and digital audio company...
I wouldn't jump to these sort of conclusions so quickly. If I remember correctly, Apple's most profitable products remain their Macintosh line of computers, and the majority of their revenue is still derived from Mac sales. To say that Apple is hugely successful because of their music efforts is definitely valid, however hyperbolic. It is perhaps not as much of a stretch to say that their brand has become hugely successful because of their efforts in the music market, but then again, the Apple brand has always been a strong, premium brand. If you were following the company in 1997 when SJ returned, he emphasized the popularity of the Apple brand, even at that time, and how they were going to leverage that popularity in Apple's resurgence. Looks like that idea turned out, doesn't it?
And if Apple was depending on computer profits alone, it would be a very different company.
Hold on. You seem to imply that you have any idea what Apple would look like without the iPod? I submit that Apple may have turned out better without the iPod. The iPod (and now the iPhone) is a significant drain on R&D on Apple. It could be possible, as you speculate, that the Mac would be even farther advanced at this time if the iPod had not happened. I personally believe that Apple's Mac lines have suffered to some extent since the popularity of the iPod in 2003/04, having followed the company some 12 years (I was born in 1988), and researched its products from before my awareness of computers. Apple was surviving just fine on revenues from its computers prior to the iPod, thank you very much. Ever heard of products like the G3 iMac, Powermac G4, and TiBook G4? Paradigm shifting computers, all ahead of their time, all hugely profitable, and all prior to the iPod.
I'm saying Apple could do better. A lot better, in some markets.
Perhaps. I, however, believe that Apple continuously undertakes huge feasibility studies regarding new product launches, in an effort to determine the most profitable markets to enter. As noted above, the low-end markets are not profitable markets. Margins are low, support costs are high, and most importantly, the quality of the OS X experience is significantly diluted with the cheaper components. Essentially, Apple can either a) maintain margins through using cheaper, slower components that reduce the OS X experience, or b) lower margins and retain better components to maintain the OS X experience, but make a ton less money. Neither are good options, hence nothing cheaper than a Mac mini at this time. Don't bank on anything cheaper than a Macbook or Mac mini coming out of Apple in a while either, at least until one of the above issues (a or b) can be resolved.
But that's just my humble opinion.
--mAc-warrior
I don't need to be told Apple is doing well. I'm saying Apple could do better. A lot better, in some markets.
Prove it beyond bald assertion that Apple would be doing "a lot better" overall with any given fantasy product lineup over the current one.
Dell has updated their laptop line for the season and the update looks reasonably good.
Do the new Dells have Montevina processors? If so, let's hope Apple has an update on the MBs soon.
Hold on. You seem to imply that you have any idea what Apple would look like without the iPod? I submit that Apple may have turned out better without the iPod. The iPod (and now the iPhone) is a significant drain on R&D on Apple. It could be possible, as you speculate, that the Mac would be even farther advanced at this time if the iPod had not happened. I personally believe that Apple's Mac lines have suffered to some extent since the popularity of the iPod in 2003/04, having followed the company some 12 years (I was born in 1988), and researched its products from before my awareness of computers. Apple was surviving just fine on revenues from its computers prior to the iPod, thank you very much. Ever heard of products like the G3 iMac, Powermac G4, and TiBook G4? Paradigm shifting computers, all ahead of their time, all hugely profitable, and all prior to the iPod.
I disagree with your submission. Macs may have turned out to be marginally better than they are right now, but I don't believe it would be a significant factor in Apple's success. It certainly wouldn't have brought the MASSIVE amount of attention that the iPod and iPhone have brought to Apple. The company's brand awareness has skyrocketed because they delivered product to a wide audience that doesn't care about the kind of computer they use. This audience wouldn't have noticed the incremental improvement that a total Mac-focus would have delivered, but due to iPod (and now iPhone) many of them are in Apple Stores... and noticing the Mac.
Yes, Apple survived on all those great Macs of the past (and future), but barely. By branching out of the computer market they have dramatically broadened their appeal. They have also created something of an eco-system between their various products. Sure you can use an iPod or iPhone with a Windows machine... but it works better with the Mac, and it looks like it belongs next to a Mac. I've been a Mac user since '85 or so, and it sure is a relief to see Apple branching out a little and really taking advantage of its hardware/software integration capabilities. I have a great deal more faith in their ability to survive now that there is some diversification in their product line.
I've been a Mac user since '85 or so, and it sure is a relief to see Apple branching out a little and really taking advantage of its hardware/software integration capabilities. I have a great deal more faith in their ability to survive now that there is some diversification in their product line.
This is exactly right. My previous comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek; I just wanted to provide a different perspective than the other posters' idea that the iPod/iPhone are now solely sustaining Apple. As an Apple shareholder and Mac user for many years as well, I am absolutely ecstatic about the iPod, the iPod, the iTS, the AppleTV, and all their future pursuits that are not Macs. I simply wanted to provide a little balance to the discussion and perhaps lead people in the direction that nobody knows exactly what would have happened in any other scenario than the one we are currently in.
Thanks for your comments, I do agree wholeheartedly.
In any case, I'm hoping for a MBP overhaul before Sept 1.
--mAc
I disagree with your submission. Macs may have turned out to be marginally better than they are right now, but I don't believe it would be a significant factor in Apple's success. It certainly wouldn't have brought the MASSIVE amount of attention that the iPod and iPhone have brought to Apple. The company's brand awareness has skyrocketed because they delivered product to a wide audience that doesn't care about the kind of computer they use. This audience wouldn't have noticed the incremental improvement that a total Mac-focus would have delivered, but due to iPod (and now iPhone) many of them are in Apple Stores... and noticing the Mac.
Yes, Apple survived on all those great Macs of the past (and future), but barely. By branching out of the computer market they have dramatically broadened their appeal. They have also created something of an eco-system between their various products. Sure you can use an iPod or iPhone with a Windows machine... but it works better with the Mac, and it looks like it belongs next to a Mac. I've been a Mac user since '85 or so, and it sure is a relief to see Apple branching out a little and really taking advantage of its hardware/software integration capabilities. I have a great deal more faith in their ability to survive now that there is some diversification in their product line.
Ya - I'm no expert, but the profits garnered from the iPod's success invariably allowed Apple to hire more R&D guys and more engineers etc., not only to work on the iPod/iPhone, but also to work on the Mac and AppleTV and whatever else the company is working on.