Not at all when this product decision cripples the workability of the new iMacs. There are people who depend on these things for a living.
There are people who depend on things they do not own? If they imac isn't right for you, don't buy it. Buy something else that suits your needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
Time to start wearing the black burkas in the darkened basement laboratories and avoid anything but white backgrounds on the screen. Should cause no problems! There will be a slight problem with editing anything dark on screen but we'll just avoid those as we move to an industry based on images which don't have reflexion problems or the letter "R" in them.
That's the spirit. Turn lemon into lemonade! The beauty part: your burka doubles as a cocktail garment for after hours fun that never goes out of style. No more need to change into your hotpants after a full day of photoshopping in your darkened basement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
None so blind as those who can not see. Hope your labrador copes better with the on screen glare problems!
None so salty as those who are covered in salt. Except, I suppose, those who are made of salt. And of course, it would also depend on the kind of salt. But I digress. Anyway, I have noticed that most labradors are very accomodating of screen glare. While not always been the case historically, over the past two centuries, breeders have successfully minimized the trait of inability to cope with screen glare problems and subsequently very few labradors are so bothered. Perhaps Apple is participating in a similar experiment and in several hundred years your own progeny will have none of these problems that have worked you up into such a tizz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
Not true. For a start these screen are massive compared with laptops and perched up on their stands seem to pick up specular highlights to the left and right of you. The glass is only tinted and is full gloss. Also you tend to look down on a laptop which means your reflected view is low as well.
Have you considered buying a computer with a matte screen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
Take a look at your own posts. Many Mac users think they are on a crusade to protect Apple from ANY criticsm no matter how well founded. Thanks to them Apple has continued to get away with the "Apple knows best" tactics that drives away most PC users and keeps persistent Mac users such as myself in often untenable positions.
And conversely, anyone with a criticism is on a crusade against anyone who does not agree with their position, dismissing (as you are dismissing) any reasonable disagreement as the spasms of mindless fanboyism. Such fun! Both sides can so easilly dismiss the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
Apple seems hell bent on shaking off its critical professional base in favor of the newly suckered in, easily duped amateurs it now targets. Essentially it wants a more manipulatable consumer who is attracted to the superficial and will buy into a cycle of "fashion statements" and get rid of them when they don't look "Hot" anymore.
Since you asked, in my opinon, I think Apple is hell bent on making a greater distinction between "prosumer" and "professional," driving users like you who require matte screens to the MacPros and cinema displays. Increasing iMac prowess threatens to canabalize higher margin professional sales, and Apple is trying to delicately balance both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
Ofcourse I am not going to buy these models, despite I have waited cash-in-hand for them for over 12 months.
I'm sure a clever lad like you can figure out a solution that lets you keep your burka and get the mac and screen of your dreams.
Bending over and picking up the soap has become an ingrained habit for what is left of Apple's Pro Graphics users. In this case they actually got their backs up only to be swamped by the clueless amateurs who now make up a majority of Apple users.
This volunteer Home Guard's only authority is that "Apple knows best". Clearly that isn't so. The glare is so patently obvious on these screens the Monty Pythonesque argument "Oh no it's not!" is just an out and out lie.
I have never seen so many Apple store employees so on the defensive, and yet privately agreeing.
In the closed market of Mac computing the only choice is to hang on in the hope that Apple will blow in a different direction next time, or opt out and pay to replace all your software and equipment.
Bending over and picking up the soap has become an ingrained habit for what is left of Apple's Pro Graphics users. In this case they actually got their backs up only to be swamped by the clueless amateurs who now make up a majority of Apple users.
Is it that you are young and not yet part of the crowd to which you aspire, old and jealous of a new breed that does not sure your antiquated views, or somehow and oddly enough an active graphics pro who simply cannot find the extra money to buy the proper professional solution widely used in the industry?
Are you a short order cook, gastroboy, who has been saving your wages to buy an iMac and break into the field of your dreams, only to have Apple's new model, the object of your speculative desire for over 12 months, not meet your expectations? If that is the case, I am not disparaging it. Indeed, if so, good luck to you and I hope you get what you want! I am just trying to understand what seems like a position that is both knowledgeable and clueless at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
This volunteer Home Guard's only authority is that "Apple knows best". Clearly that isn't so. The glare is so patently obvious on these screens the Monty Pythonesque argument "Oh no it's not!" is just an out and out lie.
Such fun! So easy to dismiss any criticism of any critic as mindless chanting from a volunteer Home Guard. Is it possible - or let me say it this way - have you ever stopped to consider that you might be wrong about something ever in your life? Are you ever wrong? Is it possible for someone to disagree with you without you dismissing their view as a mindless response from a sycophantic automaton?
Again, since you asked (I'll pretend that you asked), I will give you my initial opinion of the iMac based on actual use. Yes, it is reflective! Kind of like slick Sony TV reflective. I notice the reflection most when I'm looking at the computer and thinking about the computer as a computer. When I'm using the computer, however, I am delighted at the candy quality of the image, reminiscent of SJ's assertion that OSX is so beautiful he wanted to "lick it." The iMac screen makes you want to lick it. After I use the computer a bit, I am no longer aware of its reflection. Frankly, I am more bothered (not that bothered, but more bothered) by the ostentatious logo. I would have preferred something that blended more into the silver below the screen, rather than a black apple that asks to be looked at from time to time. But the reflections, so obvious when you look at the computer as a computer, evaporate for me in actual use. In use, I am simply drawn into its glowy gummybear world. By full disclosure, I am not a graphics professional and don't care about this stuff as much as someone like, well, perhaps you. I suppose if I were a graphics professional, and wanted a matte screen, I would go out and buy one. I'm not sure why that hasn't occurred to you as well. Also, by way of full disclosure, I am a cat, and therefore my perspective is admittedly different from yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
I have never seen so many Apple store employees so on the defensive, and yet privately agreeing.
Are you suggesting that you are tapped into all things Apple? Are you a card carrying member of the Home Guard and thus feel personally betrayed? How many employees did you survey? Or does this boil down to you know a guy who works in an Apple store and you and him get together and grumble as you wax poetic about the awesome new album cover you are designing for your awesome new band?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
In the closed market of Mac computing the only choice is to hang on in the hope that Apple will blow in a different direction next time, or opt out and pay to replace all your software and equipment.
Are you aware that Apple sells products other than the iMac? Why don't you buy one of those? Why do you keep avoiding this question?
Is it that you are young and not yet part of the crowd to which you aspire, old and jealous of a new breed that does not sure your antiquated views, or somehow and oddly enough an active graphics pro who simply cannot find the extra money to buy the proper professional solution widely used in the industry?
I do my own books, so I know where the money has disappeared to. I no longer want to buy the equivalent of the hole in the water into which you pour money.
My PC competitors haven't had to shell out for all for the Apple crossgrades that I have, most of which have done absolutely nothing for my productivity.
Quote:
Are you ever wrong?
I believe so, but now that you have sown doubt in my mind, perhaps I am wrong about THAT, and I really am infallible. Just that I forgot to mention it.
Quote:
Again.... Blah, Blah, Blah ... by way of full disclosure, I am a cat, and therefore my perspective is admittedly different from yours.
Sorry did you say something there? I nodded off in the middle.
Quote:
How many employees did you survey?
3 out of 5 freely agreed about the gloss, the other 2 clammed up so rapidly it was obvious they had covered this repeatedly with other shoppers. Why 5 you may ask? Because I DID try it in multiple settings hoping it was just a matter of a better set up to avoid the sheen.
Haven't tried frosting my eyeballs yet, I can see you are leading up to that. Nothing wrong with the iMac, must be me. Mind if it had been a Dell, it would have been a heap of shit, no argument.
Quote:
Are you aware that Apple sells products other than the iMac? Why don't you buy one of those? Why do you keep avoiding this question?
See above. The other Macs don't even make financial sense, the iMac does...
I do my own books, so I know where the money has disappeared to. I no longer want to buy the equivalent of the hole in the water into which you pour money.
My PC competitors haven't had to shell out for all for the Apple crossgrades that I have, most of which have done absolutely nothing for my productivity.
You don't like the iMac. OK.
You don't like the Mac Pro. OK.
You don't like Apple. OK.
You pined and saved for a new Apple computer for a year, and hop around from Apple store to Apple store so you quite like Apple. OK.
Yet...
You don't like Apple. OK.
And you definately don't like people who like Apple. OK.
Yet...
You like Apple. OK.
Have I missed something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
Sorry did you say something there? I nodded off in the middle.
I am concerned about your health. Are you still on that crazy diet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
3 out of 5 freely agreed about the gloss, the other 2 clammed up so rapidly it was obvious they had covered this repeatedly with other shoppers. Why 5 you may ask? Because I DID try it in multiple settings hoping it was just a matter of a better set up to avoid the sheen.
These are all store settings - not really in a working environment where you can stop obsessing. Not that it matters, I accept your point - the iMac isn't for you. You are making the point that you are not going to buy a computer that does not meet your needs... And you are upset because you cannot buy a product that does not exist...
I too am looking forward to products that don't yet exist, and am frustrated that they don't yet exist. In this, we are interchangeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
See above. The other Macs don't even make financial sense, the iMac does...
...or at least it did.
"Financial sense"? That means you either don't want to pay the price of a Mac Pro, can't pay the price of a Mac Pro, or have some abstract standard against which the Mac Pro doesn't stack up. Fortunately, gastro, the world is your oyster and you are free to eat the oyster or be kind of grossed out by the oyster and order the salmon.
I have always loved the Mac and even, long long ago, once liked Apple but then I spent too much quality time with them as a VAR.
I fully appreciate your role as self appointed official apologist for Apple means you must defend even the indefensible.
I also appreciate your highly technical analytical skills, that lead you to the conclusion it is only under certain freaky conditions that the new iMac reveals itself as excessively reflective.
It is unfortunate that Apple has managed to reproduce these rare and easily avoidable conditions in its own stores and that several other stores with wildly different lighting have managed to hit on the only other freaky instances where a problem is revealed.
I suggest you offer your expert services in telling them how to make the problem go away.
For my business I could go radically upmarket, as you suggest, but it wouldn't get more pizzas to more doors, and hence more money, so why would I?
Apple has taken a killer product which really hit the sweet spot for many designers and made it unusable. Seems it couldn't bear to see its customers actually getting value for once. Well it won't be the first time designers switched away from Apple or went on a buyer's strike.
One thing you seem to have got right, is that if you close your eyes to the problem it almost goes away.
Apple has taken a killer product which really hit the sweet spot for many designers and made it unusable.
Unusable? Ridiculous. I'll never pretend to be a graphics guru but I do use my new iMac to make money as a graphic designer. It's a great piece of machinery. I love the glossy screen and voted that way in the poll (among the majority since the thread began.) In the few jobs I have done since receiving the machine, I have not had one client say "um, the color seems to be off....Are you using a new iMac?" Nor after hours in front of it am I squinting or getting headaches like some people say who spent five minutes looking at it from an angle while someone else used the machine in the Apple store.
I can respect those whose opinion is that the glossy screen is no good. But to call the machine 'unusable' is just ridiculous.
Nor after hours in front of it am I squinting or getting headaches like some people say who spent five minutes looking at it from an angle while someone else used the machine in the Apple store.
I submit to your greater knowledge, as you are self professed omniscient and omnipresent.
What puzzles me is not seeing you "looking at it from an angle", amongst the many other reflections, whilst I used the iMacs extensively in the normal sitting position.
I don't even remember seeing you reflected in the darker screens such as in Aperture, just myself and the store behind me.
There, you finally have proof positive that I just can't see what is staring me in the face!
Can someone tell me why we are still arguing about the glossy screen? It's a done deal. Get over it. The fact is that some of us want something that doesn't exist. Okay. Wait until the next iteration. Maybe it will feature a matte screen too. Two AI pages of arguing and flaming s not going to change anything.
I have always loved the Mac and even, long long ago, once liked Apple but then I spent too much quality time with them as a VAR.
Are you some variation of disgruntled employee?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
I fully appreciate your role as self appointed official apologist for Apple means you must defend even the indefensible.
No, it is you who are appointing me that. I fear you may be seeing reflections everywhere now. Whatever it is that buggered you so with the iMac may be emblematic of a larger problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
I also appreciate your highly technical analytical skills, that lead you to the conclusion it is only under certain freaky conditions that the new iMac reveals itself as excessively reflective.
Not saying that. Only that when I look at it, I see the glare. When I use it, not so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
It is unfortunate that Apple has managed to reproduce these rare and easily avoidable conditions in its own stores and that several other stores with wildly different lighting have managed to hit on the only other freaky instances where a problem is revealed.
I suggest you offer your expert services in telling them how to make the problem go away.
I will offer to you first as a trial run:
It isn't a problem if it isn't a problem.
It is a problem if it is a problem.
Take your pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
For my business I could go radically upmarket, as you suggest, but it wouldn't get more pizzas to more doors, and hence more money, so why would I?
If you are not motivated by other metrics than how many pizzas get delivered to how many doors, and this doesn't change that, then you wouldn't. However, where you seem to stumble is in front of a clear decision: buy the iMac, buy the Mac Pro (buy the Mac Mini) or don't. But you are stuck in a continuous howl that the iMac is not something it is not as if howling will either change it into that, or everyone else will join you in mass howl. And those who don't: mindless apologists for the mothership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy
Apple has taken a killer product which really hit the sweet spot for many designers and made it unusable. Seems it couldn't bear to see its customers actually getting value for once. Well it won't be the first time designers switched away from Apple or went on a buyer's strike.
Join the howl! There you are, you're recruiting!
Well, good luck to you, gastro. But I don't think you'll reach critical mass here.
I submit to your greater knowledge, as you are self professed omniscient and omnipresent.
What puzzles me is not seeing you "looking at it from an angle", amongst the many other reflections, whilst I used the iMacs extensively in the normal sitting position.
I don't even remember seeing you reflected in the darker screens such as in Aperture, just myself and the store behind me.
There, you finally have proof positive that I just can't see what is staring me in the face!
Your rants are simply tiresome. On a black screen (not gray mind you) I do see my reflection the closer I am to the screen. I don't use Aperture nor do I work with the computer off. So for me, the iMac works great as it produces vivid bright colors where I do not catch any reflections.
But here you are saying that the computer is 'unusable' because in Aperture you catch a reflection of your own face. I don't know whether this is a slight to Aperture or your own face that it would make a computer completely 'unusable.'
I respect your opinion and the opinion of others that the glossy screen is too reflective. But reflections or not it is VERY usuable and in my opinion a joy to use.
I find his rants rather amusing, and am forlorn that he has not stopped by to give us this day, our daily rant, amen.
Duddits, I find that a 'catty' remark. His rants are like 'hair balls'. You cats are a persnickety breed.
BTW, I tried to teach my Russian Blue to use the computer, but he complains that the keys are too small for his paws. Should we start a thread threatening Apple because of the key size. After all, the US gov't passed a law regarding providing special ramps, doorways, and such for the disadvantaged. My cat is disadvantaged because of the small keys. Of course, he can't spell very well anyway. You must have voice activation or did Apple provide you with a special keyboard? You must know "someone".
BTW, I tried to teach my Russian Blue to use the computer, but he complains that the keys are too small for his paws.
Russian Blues are among the most computer-savvy cats around. Not a coincidence that IBM is known as Big Blue...
"My paws are too big" is a common ploy in the cat world to throw off humans, and I am probably saying more than I should as it is, but I bet as soon as you step out he's friending away on his myspace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
Should we start a thread threatening Apple because of the key size.
I think Apple's lawyers are busy enough these days dealing with humans who did not understand that iPhone batteries will not outlive the solar system, and think that just because a phone is described as a "candy bar form factor" means you can eat it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
After all, the US gov't passed a law regarding providing special ramps, doorways, and such for the disadvantaged.
I think you mean "disabled." I'm not sure the US gov't has passed many laws for the "disadvantaged" in quite some time...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
My cat is disadvantaged because of the small keys. Of course, he can't spell very well anyway. You must have voice activation or did Apple provide you with a special keyboard? You must know "someone".
I recently ordered a 24" iMac with a 2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo Extreme chip. It was scheduled to ship soon, but I will be canceling my order. Today I visited an Apple store and looked at the screen. My eyes were literally hurting and I was beginning to get a headache after spending only 15 minutes on the computer. Given that I spend nearly 3-4 hours/day on my iMac, it would create a major problem to have a glossy screen with so much glare.
For the current and potential iMac or Cinema Display buyers, which do you prefer? Glossy or matte? If Apple updates the Cinema Display lineup, do you want to see glossy displays offered?
I went to Apple store yesterday to buy the 24"iMac with 3.06 processor.
On paper it sounds great. But I freaked out at the glossy screen.
I'm a filmmaker and do my own editing on Final Cut Pro.
The glossy screen is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
I've got mirrors in my house if I want to see myself.
On my edit screen I want to see JUST THE WORK. JUST THE IMAGES.
How could Apple make this HORRENDOUS MISTAKE????
I have a 3 year old iMac G5. Of course the screen was matte in those days.
That was before Apple was blinded by their own reflection!
Doesn't Apple know that people do WORK on these machines
-- work on IMAGES, like in Photoshop.
At the store, a Photoshop workshop was in progress.
Of course they were using huge wonderful MATTE Monitors.
Who could possibly work with that glossy reflection??????
Now I don't know what to buy. I really wanted that iMac.
I went to Apple store yesterday to buy the 24"iMac with 3.06 processor.
On paper it sounds great. But I freaked out at the glossy screen.
I'm a filmmaker and do my own editing on Final Cut Pro.
The glossy screen is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
I've got mirrors in my house if I want to see myself.
On my edit screen I want to see JUST THE WORK. JUST THE IMAGES.
How could Apple make this HORRENDOUS MISTAKE????
I have a 3 year old iMac G5. Of course the screen was matte in those days.
That was before Apple was blinded by their own reflection!
Doesn't Apple know that people do WORK on these machines
-- work on IMAGES, like in Photoshop.
At the store, a Photoshop workshop was in progress.
Of course they were using huge wonderful MATTE Monitors.
Who could possibly work with that glossy reflection??????
Now I don't know what to buy. I really wanted that iMac.
It would have been perfect.
Sad, perplexed and angry. Nancy
"The glossy screen is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. "
Really? Hmmmmm, I don't suppose that it ever occurred to you that all those bright overhead lights at The Apple Store were responsible for the reflection problem?
I have the new 24" iMac, and I can tell you I have no such reflection problems at home. Of course I'm not stupid enough to set it up in a situation like you saw at The Apple Store. I love my glossy screen, the colors are great! There are quite a number of Pro photographers using that 24" iMac, so perhaps that answers your question about who could possibly work with it.
Mine is calibrated with a Spyder 3 Pro, and my prints match my monitor perfectly. However, the iMac is not the best model for video, that would be the Mac Pro, because of it's multiple cores. But, for still photography, one does not need a Mac Pro, the new iMac serves very well. Images open almost instantly in PS CS 3, Aperture 2, or Nikon Capture NX.
Don't let internet scare mongers, and lousy lighting setups at The Apple Store, give you the absolute wrong attitude about the 24" iMacs. You viewed them under the worst possible conditions. Ideally, the iMacs should be displayed in a different environment, but The Apple Stores aren't setup to do that. At home, it's no problem at all.
There are quite a number of Pro photographers using that 24" iMac.
Name them.
Give links.
Get them to confirm the obvious reflections and glare don't exist.
I have asked on multiple relevant forums, including Apple's own, for any professionals who recommend the use of glossy Aluminium iMacs for color critical work. There have been hundreds of views and no-one has recommended them.
That would be supposing that "Pro photographers" are even expert in press ready workflow.
btw The Spyder doesn't register reflections as it covers and is in contact with the part of the screen it reads, and yes I have used the Al iMac in a darkened room where the glare from the screen lights your reflection, hence my suggestion of a burka.
Also there has been a fallacious suggestion that the screen needs to be all black or substantially black for the reflection to be an issue. The point is that any dark part of an image is altered and polluted by the reflections that it picks up which you may not even be aware of, just that your view of the subject matter is inaccurate.
Comments
Not at all when this product decision cripples the workability of the new iMacs. There are people who depend on these things for a living.
There are people who depend on things they do not own? If they imac isn't right for you, don't buy it. Buy something else that suits your needs.
Time to start wearing the black burkas in the darkened basement laboratories and avoid anything but white backgrounds on the screen. Should cause no problems! There will be a slight problem with editing anything dark on screen but we'll just avoid those as we move to an industry based on images which don't have reflexion problems or the letter "R" in them.
That's the spirit. Turn lemon into lemonade! The beauty part: your burka doubles as a cocktail garment for after hours fun that never goes out of style. No more need to change into your hotpants after a full day of photoshopping in your darkened basement.
None so blind as those who can not see. Hope your labrador copes better with the on screen glare problems!
None so salty as those who are covered in salt. Except, I suppose, those who are made of salt. And of course, it would also depend on the kind of salt. But I digress. Anyway, I have noticed that most labradors are very accomodating of screen glare. While not always been the case historically, over the past two centuries, breeders have successfully minimized the trait of inability to cope with screen glare problems and subsequently very few labradors are so bothered. Perhaps Apple is participating in a similar experiment and in several hundred years your own progeny will have none of these problems that have worked you up into such a tizz.
Not true. For a start these screen are massive compared with laptops and perched up on their stands seem to pick up specular highlights to the left and right of you. The glass is only tinted and is full gloss. Also you tend to look down on a laptop which means your reflected view is low as well.
Have you considered buying a computer with a matte screen?
Take a look at your own posts. Many Mac users think they are on a crusade to protect Apple from ANY criticsm no matter how well founded. Thanks to them Apple has continued to get away with the "Apple knows best" tactics that drives away most PC users and keeps persistent Mac users such as myself in often untenable positions.
And conversely, anyone with a criticism is on a crusade against anyone who does not agree with their position, dismissing (as you are dismissing) any reasonable disagreement as the spasms of mindless fanboyism. Such fun! Both sides can so easilly dismiss the other.
Apple seems hell bent on shaking off its critical professional base in favor of the newly suckered in, easily duped amateurs it now targets. Essentially it wants a more manipulatable consumer who is attracted to the superficial and will buy into a cycle of "fashion statements" and get rid of them when they don't look "Hot" anymore.
Since you asked, in my opinon, I think Apple is hell bent on making a greater distinction between "prosumer" and "professional," driving users like you who require matte screens to the MacPros and cinema displays. Increasing iMac prowess threatens to canabalize higher margin professional sales, and Apple is trying to delicately balance both.
Ofcourse I am not going to buy these models, despite I have waited cash-in-hand for them for over 12 months.
I'm sure a clever lad like you can figure out a solution that lets you keep your burka and get the mac and screen of your dreams.
This volunteer Home Guard's only authority is that "Apple knows best". Clearly that isn't so. The glare is so patently obvious on these screens the Monty Pythonesque argument "Oh no it's not!" is just an out and out lie.
I have never seen so many Apple store employees so on the defensive, and yet privately agreeing.
In the closed market of Mac computing the only choice is to hang on in the hope that Apple will blow in a different direction next time, or opt out and pay to replace all your software and equipment.
Bending over and picking up the soap has become an ingrained habit for what is left of Apple's Pro Graphics users. In this case they actually got their backs up only to be swamped by the clueless amateurs who now make up a majority of Apple users.
Is it that you are young and not yet part of the crowd to which you aspire, old and jealous of a new breed that does not sure your antiquated views, or somehow and oddly enough an active graphics pro who simply cannot find the extra money to buy the proper professional solution widely used in the industry?
Are you a short order cook, gastroboy, who has been saving your wages to buy an iMac and break into the field of your dreams, only to have Apple's new model, the object of your speculative desire for over 12 months, not meet your expectations? If that is the case, I am not disparaging it. Indeed, if so, good luck to you and I hope you get what you want! I am just trying to understand what seems like a position that is both knowledgeable and clueless at the same time.
This volunteer Home Guard's only authority is that "Apple knows best". Clearly that isn't so. The glare is so patently obvious on these screens the Monty Pythonesque argument "Oh no it's not!" is just an out and out lie.
Such fun! So easy to dismiss any criticism of any critic as mindless chanting from a volunteer Home Guard. Is it possible - or let me say it this way - have you ever stopped to consider that you might be wrong about something ever in your life? Are you ever wrong? Is it possible for someone to disagree with you without you dismissing their view as a mindless response from a sycophantic automaton?
Again, since you asked (I'll pretend that you asked), I will give you my initial opinion of the iMac based on actual use. Yes, it is reflective! Kind of like slick Sony TV reflective. I notice the reflection most when I'm looking at the computer and thinking about the computer as a computer. When I'm using the computer, however, I am delighted at the candy quality of the image, reminiscent of SJ's assertion that OSX is so beautiful he wanted to "lick it." The iMac screen makes you want to lick it. After I use the computer a bit, I am no longer aware of its reflection. Frankly, I am more bothered (not that bothered, but more bothered) by the ostentatious logo. I would have preferred something that blended more into the silver below the screen, rather than a black apple that asks to be looked at from time to time. But the reflections, so obvious when you look at the computer as a computer, evaporate for me in actual use. In use, I am simply drawn into its glowy gummybear world. By full disclosure, I am not a graphics professional and don't care about this stuff as much as someone like, well, perhaps you. I suppose if I were a graphics professional, and wanted a matte screen, I would go out and buy one. I'm not sure why that hasn't occurred to you as well. Also, by way of full disclosure, I am a cat, and therefore my perspective is admittedly different from yours.
I have never seen so many Apple store employees so on the defensive, and yet privately agreeing.
Are you suggesting that you are tapped into all things Apple? Are you a card carrying member of the Home Guard and thus feel personally betrayed? How many employees did you survey? Or does this boil down to you know a guy who works in an Apple store and you and him get together and grumble as you wax poetic about the awesome new album cover you are designing for your awesome new band?
In the closed market of Mac computing the only choice is to hang on in the hope that Apple will blow in a different direction next time, or opt out and pay to replace all your software and equipment.
Are you aware that Apple sells products other than the iMac? Why don't you buy one of those? Why do you keep avoiding this question?
Is it that you are young and not yet part of the crowd to which you aspire, old and jealous of a new breed that does not sure your antiquated views, or somehow and oddly enough an active graphics pro who simply cannot find the extra money to buy the proper professional solution widely used in the industry?
I do my own books, so I know where the money has disappeared to. I no longer want to buy the equivalent of the hole in the water into which you pour money.
My PC competitors haven't had to shell out for all for the Apple crossgrades that I have, most of which have done absolutely nothing for my productivity.
Are you ever wrong?
I believe so, but now that you have sown doubt in my mind, perhaps I am wrong about THAT, and I really am infallible. Just that I forgot to mention it.
Again.... Blah, Blah, Blah ... by way of full disclosure, I am a cat, and therefore my perspective is admittedly different from yours.
Sorry did you say something there? I nodded off in the middle.
How many employees did you survey?
3 out of 5 freely agreed about the gloss, the other 2 clammed up so rapidly it was obvious they had covered this repeatedly with other shoppers. Why 5 you may ask? Because I DID try it in multiple settings hoping it was just a matter of a better set up to avoid the sheen.
Haven't tried frosting my eyeballs yet, I can see you are leading up to that. Nothing wrong with the iMac, must be me. Mind if it had been a Dell, it would have been a heap of shit, no argument.
Are you aware that Apple sells products other than the iMac? Why don't you buy one of those? Why do you keep avoiding this question?
See above. The other Macs don't even make financial sense, the iMac does...
...or at least it did.
I do my own books, so I know where the money has disappeared to. I no longer want to buy the equivalent of the hole in the water into which you pour money.
My PC competitors haven't had to shell out for all for the Apple crossgrades that I have, most of which have done absolutely nothing for my productivity.
You don't like the iMac. OK.
You don't like the Mac Pro. OK.
You don't like Apple. OK.
You pined and saved for a new Apple computer for a year, and hop around from Apple store to Apple store so you quite like Apple. OK.
Yet...
You don't like Apple. OK.
And you definately don't like people who like Apple. OK.
Yet...
You like Apple. OK.
Have I missed something?
Sorry did you say something there? I nodded off in the middle.
I am concerned about your health. Are you still on that crazy diet?
3 out of 5 freely agreed about the gloss, the other 2 clammed up so rapidly it was obvious they had covered this repeatedly with other shoppers. Why 5 you may ask? Because I DID try it in multiple settings hoping it was just a matter of a better set up to avoid the sheen.
These are all store settings - not really in a working environment where you can stop obsessing. Not that it matters, I accept your point - the iMac isn't for you. You are making the point that you are not going to buy a computer that does not meet your needs... And you are upset because you cannot buy a product that does not exist...
I too am looking forward to products that don't yet exist, and am frustrated that they don't yet exist. In this, we are interchangeable.
See above. The other Macs don't even make financial sense, the iMac does...
...or at least it did.
"Financial sense"? That means you either don't want to pay the price of a Mac Pro, can't pay the price of a Mac Pro, or have some abstract standard against which the Mac Pro doesn't stack up. Fortunately, gastro, the world is your oyster and you are free to eat the oyster or be kind of grossed out by the oyster and order the salmon.
I fully appreciate your role as self appointed official apologist for Apple means you must defend even the indefensible.
I also appreciate your highly technical analytical skills, that lead you to the conclusion it is only under certain freaky conditions that the new iMac reveals itself as excessively reflective.
It is unfortunate that Apple has managed to reproduce these rare and easily avoidable conditions in its own stores and that several other stores with wildly different lighting have managed to hit on the only other freaky instances where a problem is revealed.
I suggest you offer your expert services in telling them how to make the problem go away.
For my business I could go radically upmarket, as you suggest, but it wouldn't get more pizzas to more doors, and hence more money, so why would I?
Apple has taken a killer product which really hit the sweet spot for many designers and made it unusable. Seems it couldn't bear to see its customers actually getting value for once. Well it won't be the first time designers switched away from Apple or went on a buyer's strike.
One thing you seem to have got right, is that if you close your eyes to the problem it almost goes away.
Apple has taken a killer product which really hit the sweet spot for many designers and made it unusable.
Unusable? Ridiculous. I'll never pretend to be a graphics guru but I do use my new iMac to make money as a graphic designer. It's a great piece of machinery. I love the glossy screen and voted that way in the poll (among the majority since the thread began.) In the few jobs I have done since receiving the machine, I have not had one client say "um, the color seems to be off....Are you using a new iMac?" Nor after hours in front of it am I squinting or getting headaches like some people say who spent five minutes looking at it from an angle while someone else used the machine in the Apple store.
I can respect those whose opinion is that the glossy screen is no good. But to call the machine 'unusable' is just ridiculous.
Nor after hours in front of it am I squinting or getting headaches like some people say who spent five minutes looking at it from an angle while someone else used the machine in the Apple store.
I submit to your greater knowledge, as you are self professed omniscient and omnipresent.
What puzzles me is not seeing you "looking at it from an angle", amongst the many other reflections, whilst I used the iMacs extensively in the normal sitting position.
I don't even remember seeing you reflected in the darker screens such as in Aperture, just myself and the store behind me.
There, you finally have proof positive that I just can't see what is staring me in the face!
I have always loved the Mac and even, long long ago, once liked Apple but then I spent too much quality time with them as a VAR.
Are you some variation of disgruntled employee?
I fully appreciate your role as self appointed official apologist for Apple means you must defend even the indefensible.
No, it is you who are appointing me that. I fear you may be seeing reflections everywhere now. Whatever it is that buggered you so with the iMac may be emblematic of a larger problem.
I also appreciate your highly technical analytical skills, that lead you to the conclusion it is only under certain freaky conditions that the new iMac reveals itself as excessively reflective.
Not saying that. Only that when I look at it, I see the glare. When I use it, not so much.
It is unfortunate that Apple has managed to reproduce these rare and easily avoidable conditions in its own stores and that several other stores with wildly different lighting have managed to hit on the only other freaky instances where a problem is revealed.
I suggest you offer your expert services in telling them how to make the problem go away.
I will offer to you first as a trial run:
It isn't a problem if it isn't a problem.
It is a problem if it is a problem.
Take your pick.
For my business I could go radically upmarket, as you suggest, but it wouldn't get more pizzas to more doors, and hence more money, so why would I?
If you are not motivated by other metrics than how many pizzas get delivered to how many doors, and this doesn't change that, then you wouldn't. However, where you seem to stumble is in front of a clear decision: buy the iMac, buy the Mac Pro (buy the Mac Mini) or don't. But you are stuck in a continuous howl that the iMac is not something it is not as if howling will either change it into that, or everyone else will join you in mass howl. And those who don't: mindless apologists for the mothership.
Apple has taken a killer product which really hit the sweet spot for many designers and made it unusable. Seems it couldn't bear to see its customers actually getting value for once. Well it won't be the first time designers switched away from Apple or went on a buyer's strike.
Join the howl! There you are, you're recruiting!
Well, good luck to you, gastro. But I don't think you'll reach critical mass here.
I submit to your greater knowledge, as you are self professed omniscient and omnipresent.
What puzzles me is not seeing you "looking at it from an angle", amongst the many other reflections, whilst I used the iMacs extensively in the normal sitting position.
I don't even remember seeing you reflected in the darker screens such as in Aperture, just myself and the store behind me.
There, you finally have proof positive that I just can't see what is staring me in the face!
Your rants are simply tiresome. On a black screen (not gray mind you) I do see my reflection the closer I am to the screen. I don't use Aperture nor do I work with the computer off. So for me, the iMac works great as it produces vivid bright colors where I do not catch any reflections.
But here you are saying that the computer is 'unusable' because in Aperture you catch a reflection of your own face. I don't know whether this is a slight to Aperture or your own face that it would make a computer completely 'unusable.'
I respect your opinion and the opinion of others that the glossy screen is too reflective. But reflections or not it is VERY usuable and in my opinion a joy to use.
Your rants are simply tiresome.
I respectfully disagree.
I find his rants rather amusing, and am forlorn that he has not stopped by to give us this day, our daily rant, amen.
I respectfully disagree.
I find his rants rather amusing, and am forlorn that he has not stopped by to give us this day, our daily rant, amen.
Duddits, I find that a 'catty' remark. His rants are like 'hair balls'. You cats are a persnickety breed.
BTW, I tried to teach my Russian Blue to use the computer, but he complains that the keys are too small for his paws. Should we start a thread threatening Apple because of the key size. After all, the US gov't passed a law regarding providing special ramps, doorways, and such for the disadvantaged. My cat is disadvantaged because of the small keys. Of course, he can't spell very well anyway. You must have voice activation or did Apple provide you with a special keyboard? You must know "someone".
BTW, I tried to teach my Russian Blue to use the computer, but he complains that the keys are too small for his paws.
Russian Blues are among the most computer-savvy cats around. Not a coincidence that IBM is known as Big Blue...
"My paws are too big" is a common ploy in the cat world to throw off humans, and I am probably saying more than I should as it is, but I bet as soon as you step out he's friending away on his myspace.
Should we start a thread threatening Apple because of the key size.
I think Apple's lawyers are busy enough these days dealing with humans who did not understand that iPhone batteries will not outlive the solar system, and think that just because a phone is described as a "candy bar form factor" means you can eat it.
After all, the US gov't passed a law regarding providing special ramps, doorways, and such for the disadvantaged.
I think you mean "disabled." I'm not sure the US gov't has passed many laws for the "disadvantaged" in quite some time...
My cat is disadvantaged because of the small keys. Of course, he can't spell very well anyway. You must have voice activation or did Apple provide you with a special keyboard? You must know "someone".
What kind of relationship do you have with the mouse? Any compatibility problems? A symbiosis, maybe?
Or are you just biding your time when you will.... Oh no, that's too horrible to think about. Oh, the humanity!
Duddits,
What kind of relationship do you have with the mouse? Any compatibility problems? A symbiosis, maybe?
Or are you just biding your time when you will.... Oh no, that's too horrible to think about. Oh, the humanity!
If I had to give it a name, I would call it a "truce."
But there are those times when I do get tempted...
"Oh, the humanity!" -
Oh, the felinity!
I recently ordered a 24" iMac with a 2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo Extreme chip. It was scheduled to ship soon, but I will be canceling my order. Today I visited an Apple store and looked at the screen. My eyes were literally hurting and I was beginning to get a headache after spending only 15 minutes on the computer. Given that I spend nearly 3-4 hours/day on my iMac, it would create a major problem to have a glossy screen with so much glare.
For the current and potential iMac or Cinema Display buyers, which do you prefer? Glossy or matte? If Apple updates the Cinema Display lineup, do you want to see glossy displays offered?
I went to Apple store yesterday to buy the 24"iMac with 3.06 processor.
On paper it sounds great. But I freaked out at the glossy screen.
I'm a filmmaker and do my own editing on Final Cut Pro.
The glossy screen is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
I've got mirrors in my house if I want to see myself.
On my edit screen I want to see JUST THE WORK. JUST THE IMAGES.
How could Apple make this HORRENDOUS MISTAKE????
I have a 3 year old iMac G5. Of course the screen was matte in those days.
That was before Apple was blinded by their own reflection!
Doesn't Apple know that people do WORK on these machines
-- work on IMAGES, like in Photoshop.
At the store, a Photoshop workshop was in progress.
Of course they were using huge wonderful MATTE Monitors.
Who could possibly work with that glossy reflection??????
Now I don't know what to buy. I really wanted that iMac.
It would have been perfect.
Sad, perplexed and angry. Nancy
I went to Apple store yesterday to buy the 24"iMac with 3.06 processor.
On paper it sounds great. But I freaked out at the glossy screen.
I'm a filmmaker and do my own editing on Final Cut Pro.
The glossy screen is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
I've got mirrors in my house if I want to see myself.
On my edit screen I want to see JUST THE WORK. JUST THE IMAGES.
How could Apple make this HORRENDOUS MISTAKE????
I have a 3 year old iMac G5. Of course the screen was matte in those days.
That was before Apple was blinded by their own reflection!
Doesn't Apple know that people do WORK on these machines
-- work on IMAGES, like in Photoshop.
At the store, a Photoshop workshop was in progress.
Of course they were using huge wonderful MATTE Monitors.
Who could possibly work with that glossy reflection??????
Now I don't know what to buy. I really wanted that iMac.
It would have been perfect.
Sad, perplexed and angry. Nancy
"The glossy screen is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. "
Really? Hmmmmm, I don't suppose that it ever occurred to you that all those bright overhead lights at The Apple Store were responsible for the reflection problem?
I have the new 24" iMac, and I can tell you I have no such reflection problems at home. Of course I'm not stupid enough to set it up in a situation like you saw at The Apple Store. I love my glossy screen, the colors are great! There are quite a number of Pro photographers using that 24" iMac, so perhaps that answers your question about who could possibly work with it.
Mine is calibrated with a Spyder 3 Pro, and my prints match my monitor perfectly. However, the iMac is not the best model for video, that would be the Mac Pro, because of it's multiple cores. But, for still photography, one does not need a Mac Pro, the new iMac serves very well. Images open almost instantly in PS CS 3, Aperture 2, or Nikon Capture NX.
Don't let internet scare mongers, and lousy lighting setups at The Apple Store, give you the absolute wrong attitude about the 24" iMacs. You viewed them under the worst possible conditions. Ideally, the iMacs should be displayed in a different environment, but The Apple Stores aren't setup to do that. At home, it's no problem at all.
There are quite a number of Pro photographers using that 24" iMac.
Name them.
Give links.
Get them to confirm the obvious reflections and glare don't exist.
I have asked on multiple relevant forums, including Apple's own, for any professionals who recommend the use of glossy Aluminium iMacs for color critical work. There have been hundreds of views and no-one has recommended them.
That would be supposing that "Pro photographers" are even expert in press ready workflow.
btw The Spyder doesn't register reflections as it covers and is in contact with the part of the screen it reads, and yes I have used the Al iMac in a darkened room where the glare from the screen lights your reflection, hence my suggestion of a burka.
Also there has been a fallacious suggestion that the screen needs to be all black or substantially black for the reflection to be an issue. The point is that any dark part of an image is altered and polluted by the reflections that it picks up which you may not even be aware of, just that your view of the subject matter is inaccurate.