It's no use dude. The Apple Apologist (TM) will blame the user at every turn. Just get over it and stop buying Apple. I'm looking to get a Linux box the next time I shell out $$$$ for a new system.
<strong>It's no use dude. The Apple Apologist (TM) will blame the user at every turn. Just get over it and stop buying Apple. I'm looking to get a Linux box the next time I shell out $$$$ for a new system.
[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd go Linux if it had major application support. The Gimp is no Photoshop replacement.
Apple does as a matter of fact still ship all machines with os 9 as default. So I think your point on Apple claiming OSX to be "final" is a bit harsh. We are all aware of bugs and performance issues. They are all a part of a really huge transition to a totally new OS.
Personally I think they are doing a great job. I'm very happy with how my ibooks OSX performance is improving.
And I'm still using OS 9.2.1 on my main work computer.
This letter comes in response to the update of Mac OS X - which disabled a
perfectly usable piece of OS X hardware - My Microtech Zio! Smartmedia
Reader. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Was using 10.1.1 - waited a long time for Kodak to release a driver for their compact flash card reader. Installed it about a week before 10.1.2 - it worked fine. Installed 10.1.2, and it no longer recognises the device.
I would think Kodak will be a little pissed as well. They've been working on this driver for a long time - and a couple of weeks after finally releasing it, Apple update the OS and break the driver....
I'm timidly using OS X here at home, but there are quite a few things about it that make me go "uh oh" or "hmmm...".
I love it overall, however, and I think that once it's truly THE Mac OS and it ships as the default OS and Adobe and Macromedia and everyone else is on board and OS 9 is just a distant memory, it'll all be fine.
We're only at 9 o'clock or so and there is still lots to be done. If - after March or so - OS X is still weird in spots (after an 18 month beta period, essentially, and with it shipping "officially" since last March AND with autumn's 10.1 upgrade meant to be the big "breakthrough"), THEN I'll start raising hell and getting irked.
Right now, I'm cautiously going along, learning as much as I can, retraining myself to "think in X" and so forth.
However, I won't give a second thought about booting back into 9.2 or whatever should I feel I'm simply hitting a wall.
It's just not there yet. It's closer than it was 6 months ago, yes. And in six months from now, it'll only be better.
I've seen screw ups and poor coding on both sides of the proverbial fence with issues like this that I don't know who to blame. Apple has had a poor string of installer issues and had a lot of performance issues with their own apps (Finder, iTunes and to many Mail are big culprits), while companies are writing unnecessary kexts, making dirty ports, cutting corners, etc. Probably both should be blamed.
I'm in the same boat as scates: I'll let some sloppy and broken stuff go under the radar more or less until about March-May of 2002 (10.2 specifically), then it'll be "put up or shut up." I'm still pretty confident about the OS in general obviously, but if Apple isn't being vigilant within its own walls about good code, then that opens up another can of worms.
DO any of you dolts realize that the SAME thing happens with Linux???? Sure, updating libs or kernels is your choice... Yet when you update more than just one devide usually doesnt work... I honestly doubt using Linux will solve your problems, althought I only use it about 25 hours a week so, maybe I miss the greater point. You can always disable software update.
[quote]<strong>Originally posted by Daniel R. Dorato:
it however not my choice to move
to OS 10.1.2 - That was a forced update by Apple</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm curious, how was 10.1.2 forced on to you? The default configuration of Software Update in 10.1.1 will automatically check for updates, but it will NOT download or install said updates unless the user decides to. Frankly, I think your entire argument lies on this false claim. I fail to recall anytime when Apple explicity forced a customer to do something to their machine against their will. Sorry, but I don't buy it.
Sure, if they start shipping the OS as default, we should really start beeing vocal about the faults and issues, but I believe they are still gonna be there...
This whole OS migration is a Huge thing, and I just don't think anyone could manage to get everything right. Just look at XP... Its a smaller upgrade compared to X, MS has so much more resources to put into its development, and it's still far from perfect... First thing that happend to me when I installed XP on my work PC was that my second monitor stopped working, my Firewire card "stole" the role as network card from the ethernet card, an Adobe Illustrator has started to misbehave...
The work Apple has done in getting X out is tremendous. If they keep updateing it at this pace, I'll stay content. As long as they just don't sit back an say "this thing is finished...". But I don't expect them to not f**k up once in a while... (like they have allways done in the past...)
*cough* the Gnome user experience. Setting the UI back to the WfW days.. Well, not that bad.
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>It's no use dude. The Apple Apologist (TM) will blame the user at every turn. Just get over it and stop buying Apple. I'm looking to get a Linux box the next time I shell out $$$$ for a new system.
[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can understand why you might be frustrated, but the scenario you've given is not something that is limited to Apple, or even OS X. The problem of keeping drivers, extensions and the like up-to-date with the latest system modifications (and vice versa) has always been a source of glitches and hang-ups. It's the nature of the beast.
I for one have been impressed with the frequency that Apple has posted updates and the effort they're putting forth. And OS X has worked pretty much flawlessly for me, though the only real peripherals I have hooked up at present are an Epson C80 printer (supported) and an Epson office scanner (not yet supported, but works well enough via Classic and PS 6).
I suppose I might be irritated if I had a camera or modem or some gizmo that worked with 10.1.1, but then not 10.1.2...but then again I wouldn't be entirely surprised (and I would be irritated more with myself for updating when nothing was wrong (fixing it when it wasn't "broke")).
I love the way people get called "Apple Apologists" when they don't want to trash the company for whats a very common issue with all OS venders, IBM, Microsoft, Red Hat, and Apple, hardware support.
Its not easy. If it was there would never be any issues. There's always hardware out there that will break in any OS update. On any OS. Sometimes there is hardware out there that the OS vendor isn't even aware of to begin with. It doesn't mean Apple is being careless or that they are trying to screw people over, it just happens. What _would_ help is if some people could approach the issue with some maturity.
not for nothing but this is a rather dumb thing to argue about.
if this driver is coming from apple then it'll work again, its called a bug
if this driver is coming from the company who made the device then they probably need to update it for 10.1.2. Apple makes changes and developers need to recompile all the time, especially early on in an OS's life.
in other words, calm down, it'll work again. at least you have support
Comments
[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
<strong>It's no use dude. The Apple Apologist (TM) will blame the user at every turn. Just get over it and stop buying Apple. I'm looking to get a Linux box the next time I shell out $$$$ for a new system.
[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd go Linux if it had major application support. The Gimp is no Photoshop replacement.
Personally I think they are doing a great job. I'm very happy with how my ibooks OSX performance is improving.
And I'm still using OS 9.2.1 on my main work computer.
[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: New ]</p>
<strong>An Open letter to the Mac Community:
This letter comes in response to the update of Mac OS X - which disabled a
perfectly usable piece of OS X hardware - My Microtech Zio! Smartmedia
Reader. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Was using 10.1.1 - waited a long time for Kodak to release a driver for their compact flash card reader. Installed it about a week before 10.1.2 - it worked fine. Installed 10.1.2, and it no longer recognises the device.
I would think Kodak will be a little pissed as well. They've been working on this driver for a long time - and a couple of weeks after finally releasing it, Apple update the OS and break the driver....
I'm timidly using OS X here at home, but there are quite a few things about it that make me go "uh oh" or "hmmm...".
I love it overall, however, and I think that once it's truly THE Mac OS and it ships as the default OS and Adobe and Macromedia and everyone else is on board and OS 9 is just a distant memory, it'll all be fine.
We're only at 9 o'clock or so and there is still lots to be done. If - after March or so - OS X is still weird in spots (after an 18 month beta period, essentially, and with it shipping "officially" since last March AND with autumn's 10.1 upgrade meant to be the big "breakthrough"), THEN I'll start raising hell and getting irked.
Right now, I'm cautiously going along, learning as much as I can, retraining myself to "think in X" and so forth.
However, I won't give a second thought about booting back into 9.2 or whatever should I feel I'm simply hitting a wall.
It's just not there yet. It's closer than it was 6 months ago, yes. And in six months from now, it'll only be better.
The Mac community is always vocal - I love that!
Any more thoughts?
I'm in the same boat as scates: I'll let some sloppy and broken stuff go under the radar more or less until about March-May of 2002 (10.2 specifically), then it'll be "put up or shut up." I'm still pretty confident about the OS in general obviously, but if Apple isn't being vigilant within its own walls about good code, then that opens up another can of worms.
it however not my choice to move
to OS 10.1.2 - That was a forced update by Apple</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm curious, how was 10.1.2 forced on to you? The default configuration of Software Update in 10.1.1 will automatically check for updates, but it will NOT download or install said updates unless the user decides to. Frankly, I think your entire argument lies on this false claim. I fail to recall anytime when Apple explicity forced a customer to do something to their machine against their will. Sorry, but I don't buy it.
Dan
Sure, if they start shipping the OS as default, we should really start beeing vocal about the faults and issues, but I believe they are still gonna be there...
This whole OS migration is a Huge thing, and I just don't think anyone could manage to get everything right. Just look at XP... Its a smaller upgrade compared to X, MS has so much more resources to put into its development, and it's still far from perfect... First thing that happend to me when I installed XP on my work PC was that my second monitor stopped working, my Firewire card "stole" the role as network card from the ethernet card, an Adobe Illustrator has started to misbehave...
The work Apple has done in getting X out is tremendous. If they keep updateing it at this pace, I'll stay content. As long as they just don't sit back an say "this thing is finished...". But I don't expect them to not f**k up once in a while... (like they have allways done in the past...)
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>It's no use dude. The Apple Apologist (TM) will blame the user at every turn. Just get over it and stop buying Apple. I'm looking to get a Linux box the next time I shell out $$$$ for a new system.
[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I for one have been impressed with the frequency that Apple has posted updates and the effort they're putting forth. And OS X has worked pretty much flawlessly for me, though the only real peripherals I have hooked up at present are an Epson C80 printer (supported) and an Epson office scanner (not yet supported, but works well enough via Classic and PS 6).
I suppose I might be irritated if I had a camera or modem or some gizmo that worked with 10.1.1, but then not 10.1.2...but then again I wouldn't be entirely surprised (and I would be irritated more with myself for updating when nothing was wrong (fixing it when it wasn't "broke")).
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Its not easy. If it was there would never be any issues. There's always hardware out there that will break in any OS update. On any OS. Sometimes there is hardware out there that the OS vendor isn't even aware of to begin with. It doesn't mean Apple is being careless or that they are trying to screw people over, it just happens. What _would_ help is if some people could approach the issue with some maturity.
if this driver is coming from apple then it'll work again, its called a bug
if this driver is coming from the company who made the device then they probably need to update it for 10.1.2. Apple makes changes and developers need to recompile all the time, especially early on in an OS's life.
in other words, calm down, it'll work again. at least you have support