I think it is more a case that they don't actually understand Europeans. I mean, there's even on this thread an example of someone who can't tell the difference between The Netherlands and Finland. Not surprising when so few US schools teach World Geography any more.
Apple tried to force a US model of mobile/cell phone use onto the UK and launched with a single provider on an exclusive deal that prevented large numbers of people from applying because O2 simply does not cover all populated areas in the UK. Small wonder loads of people hacked the iPhone then. Europeans are used to having freedom of choice.
On top of that they launched with an out of date v1 iPhone that only had a brilliant user interface going for it. If they built sales expectations for iPhone 3G on top of past demand, then no wonder they got caught out.
With iPhone 3g Apple have made significant improvements (although there is still plenty of room for more) and the demand showed that.
Sometimes Apple is too US centric. Or should that be - too deaf to what Europeans are telling them because as always, as Americans they think they know best?
Maybe they should poach a marketing/sales genius from an EU multinational to teach them how to market in Europe. They surely could afford it. I wonder if they realize that the European market is as big as the US market, yet they hardly make a dent here.
Maybe they should poach a marketing/sales genius from an EU multinational to teach them how to market in Europe. They surely could afford it. I wonder if they realize that the European market is as big as the US market, yet they hardly make a dent here.
Mmmm... Do da name Ruby Begonia ( Jean-Louis Gassée and Mike Spindler ) strike a familiar note?
And for those who can't read Finnish, the article points out that most of those in the picture were only there for the free music and didn't even know what was going on.
The Finnish TV media called the iPhone over-priced and old technology wrapped in a new package. Probably a bit harsh, but not a total exaggeration.
Hopefully Apple will figure out the European market sometime, but I have to wonder if they can survive a price war with Nokia. No one else ever has.
The Finnish TV media called the iPhone over-priced and old technology wrapped in a new package. Probably a bit harsh, but not a total exaggeration.
Hopefully Apple will figure out the European market sometime, but I have to wonder if they can survive a price war with Nokia. No one else ever has.
Sapporobaby also commented about the non-event in Finland, but that was somewhat expected. After all, that is Nokia's home court. The Finnish launch seemed a bit odd to me, they had to know the response would not be great. Then I noticed that Sonera also launched the iPhone yesterday in Denmark, Sweden and Norway. The only other country they are in is Latvia, but they have just under a 50% stake so perhaps there is a reason there.
As for the TV media, the comment is backwards. The packaging is almost identical to the first, especially if looking at only the face. It's the inclusion of GPS and 3G and v2.0 (aka new technology) that is the major different over the old one. Now, if they are comparing to Nokia, then it's also incorrect as that is current technology.If they are nit-picking about the camera, they have a case there but to base a whole assessment of a MID/cellphone on the camera is still stretching it.
Remember, this is Apple's second attempt at a cell phone and it's only been 12 months since the first one was released. I think Apple the App Store and OS X are going to the powerhouse for the iPhone, but Nokia knows this, and they have started taking steps improve that aspect of their devices. Whether you want an iPhone or not, its presence is good for all users, which include Finns with Nokias.
Apple typically doesn't care about price wars, unless it's based on their predicted sales. For example, for the last several years SanDisk has lowered teh price of it's PMPs by a sold 40% for the holiday season, which give them a huge cut of the market for the quarter, but Apple never competes with that as unit sales mean nothing if there are no profits.
This is by far the BEST iPhone-related post I have read in the past few months. If I wasn't focusing carefully on drinking my tea I would be on the floor rolling over and coughing my lungs up in laughter.
Chance that 25 million iPhone 3Gs will be sold by December 31 2008 = very bloody high.
That estimate is even high for me. I wonder how many were sold yesterday? I bought one yesterday, but have to wait for AT&T to get the product in store. I'll be going by an Apple Store tomorrow so I'll see if they still have stock as I pass by, but I'm okay with waiting.
Let's face it, Europe = iPhone 3G all finished. What else need be said? I will be calling up several Italian retailers and post my findings back here.
This will take some time. Maybe a few bloody days. Hopefully it means nobody there has really bothered to buy or sell an iPhone 3G so I can go and get a prepaid one there.
That estimate is even high for me. I wonder how many were sold yesterday? I bought one yesterday, but have to wait for AT&T to get the product in store. I'll be going by an Apple Store tomorrow so I'll see if they still have stock as I pass by, but I'm okay with waiting.
I think it all depends how many iPhone 3Gs can Apple sustainably produce. As we can see from July 11 (a day that will go down in (Apple) infamy...!!!) Apple can sell 30-50 million phones in 5 months if it wants to. But the company would be in turmoil for years to come trying to manage all the chaos.
I think it all depends how many iPhone 3Gs can Apple sustainably produce. As we can see from July 11 (a day that will go down in (Apple) infamy...!!!) Apple can sell 30-50 million phones in 5 months if it wants to. But the company would be in turmoil for years to come trying to manage all the chaos.
I'm curious about the numbers for Friday worldwide. I can see 2M units being sold, which include people like me that paid on Friday but are still waiting for their product.
Come on, saying Europe sold out based on what happened in Switzerland is a total joke. I haven't seen reports from any other country in Europe yet, but at least here in Finland it was a total non-event. Hopefully Apple will figure out the European market sometime, but I have to wonder if they can survive a price war with Nokia. No one else ever has.
You didn't look far before belittling the first eye witness report did you - what do you prefer, to believe Nokia influenced propaganda? After all, Nokia does represent over 50% of the Finnish stock market. You really don't have to look far to find reports from the larger EU countries such as Germany that also sold out pretty quickly. The UK too.
As for a price war, Apple don't do price wars. They aim at premium markets and settle for high profits from lower volumes from high end products and get economies of scale by using the same components in many designs. Just look at the computer market - Microsoft has 90% market share but only twice the cash mountain as Apple, and as PC users are so used to saying, Apple only has a 3% market share (7% in the US). Apple also has no huge court cases in progress with steadily growing fines to pay for monopolistic practices.
Naturally, as a Finnish person you are patriotically supporting your only National world brand, and that's only right that you should. But I suspect there is also a little bit of envy in there too because you can see the iPhone is far more advanced than anything Nokia offers and is therefore a threat to the Finnish identity.
To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw, patriotism means that you support the country in which you were born (and everything that was made in it) because you were born in it.
But I suspect there is also a little bit of envy in there too because you can see the iPhone is far more advanced than anything Nokia offers and is therefore a threat to the Finnish identity.
I agree with your post, but that sentence should be qualified to refer to the iPhone's software as being far more advanced. To Nokia's credit, they have admitted to being behind on that aspect and invested a lot into addressing it.
You didn't look far before belittling the first eye witness report did you - what do you prefer, to believe Nokia influenced propaganda? After all, Nokia does represent over 50% of the Finnish stock market. You really don't have to look far to find reports from the larger EU countries such as Germany that also sold out pretty quickly. The UK too.
As for a price war, Apple don't do price wars. They aim at premium markets and settle for high profits from lower volumes from high end products and get economies of scale by using the same components in many designs. Just look at the computer market - Microsoft has 90% market share but only twice the cash mountain as Apple, and as PC users are so used to saying, Apple only has a 3% market share (7% in the US). Apple also has no huge court cases in progress with steadily growing fines to pay for monopolistic practices.
Naturally, as a Finnish person you are patriotically supporting your only National world brand, and that's only right that you should. But I suspect there is also a little bit of envy in there too because you can see the iPhone is far more advanced than anything Nokia offers and is therefore a threat to the Finnish identity.
To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw, patriotism means that you support the country in which you were born (and everything that was made in it) because you were born in it.
Heh, I wasn't born in Finland. And that is an ad hominem argument.
But anyway, of course they sold out in Germany, because they didn't have any phones to sell! It was the same everywhere else as well. Stocks were extremely limited everywhere. So it is pointless to crow about sales until after a few weeks or months when they actually have enough time to produce them.
And I know Apple tries to market itself (in most cases) as a premium brand and they will probably never achieve (nor want to) high percentages in any market. But it is extremely funny to me to watch everyone talking as though they will take over the mobile industry. Maybe they will, but only in a small niche. I have a house full of Apple products, but you guys really need to get a grip on reality. Anyway the comparison with Microsoft is pointless. The mobile market is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Technology wise, there is absolutely nothing about the iPhone that is new apart from the user interface. Most of the technological features of the iPhone are several years behind the market leaders. It even uses standard, off the shelf, components! So don't tell me that it is anything remarkable about it . I'm interested to see what they will do with their recent purchase of the chip design company though.
Still, Apple's biggest danger is that good enough bets the best. You do realize that Nokia is the largest manufacturer in the world of digital cameras, digital music players, and soon GPS devices?
Heh, I wasn't born in Finland. And that is an ad hominem argument.
But anyway, of course they sold out in Germany, because they didn't have any phones to sell! It was the same everywhere else as well. Stocks were extremely limited everywhere. So it is pointless to crow about sales until after a few weeks or months when they actually have enough time to produce them.
And I know Apple tries to market itself (in most cases) as a premium brand and they will probably never achieve (nor want to) high percentages in any market. But it is extremely funny to me to watch everyone talking as though they will take over the mobile industry. Maybe they will, but only in a small niche. I have a house full of Apple products, but you guys really need to get a grip on reality. Anyway the comparison with Microsoft is pointless. The mobile market is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Technology wise, there is absolutely nothing about the iPhone that is new apart from the user interface. Most of the technological features of the iPhone are several years behind the market leaders. It even uses standard, off the shelf, components! So don't tell me that it is anything remarkable about it . I'm interested to see what they will do with their recent purchase of the chip design company though.
Still, Apple's biggest danger is that good enough bets the best. You do realize that Nokia is the largest manufacturer in the world of digital cameras, digital music players, and soon GPS devices?
It's pretty funny to see such comments when living and working in Switzerland...the fact is: the iPhone sold out in ALL Swiss outlets, period. And this in a country where pretty much every "advanced" phone is available as well, and where people normally don't care about new products.
As for Nokia, they have dropped the ball a long time ago, and none of its products gets even close to the iPhone in terms of friendliness, features and UI. Yes, I am talking about an EASY way to use those features...not just to brag that your phone has a "browser", is 3G or handles email in a "easy" way.
The iPhone is the FIRST to do that, and that's why it's blowing every competitor out of the water. As for being "behind any other competitor", your comment can only be seen as a joke. Macs are better not because they use the latest XPD4560 chip out there...it's because they WORK in a seamless way to ordinary users.
Face it, patriotism or no patriotism: Nokia was great and one of the pioneers in the field (I even visited its nice headquarters when studying in Sweden); but its offerings are pretty pathetic when compared with even the FIRST phone product from Apple.
THIS is a result of sleeping on its laurels, and presuming others would not catch up.
The iPhone is the FIRST to do that, and that's why it's blowing every competitor out of the water. As for being "behind any other competitor", your comment can only be seen as a joke. Macs are better not because they use the latest XPD4560 chip out there...it's because they WORK in a seamless way to ordinary users.
Now that is funny . I was just using my Intel iMac and the Dock froze. Then it wouldn't connect to our Linux server. Finder just got stuck trying. Then I decided screw that, I'll just update to 10.5.4 and the latest iTunes/Quicktime. Then when it rebooted afterwards it got stuck with only the wallpaper showing. It was only after I forced another reboot it finally decided it would work properly.
Don't assume everyone who criticizes Apple doesn't know what they are talking about.
Now that is funny . I was just using my Intel iMac and the Dock froze. Then it wouldn't connect to our Linux server. Finder just got stuck trying. Then I decided screw that, I'll just update to 10.5.4 and the latest iTunes/Quicktime. Then when it rebooted afterwards it got stuck with only the wallpaper showing. It was only after I forced another reboot it finally decided it would work properly.
Don't assume everyone who criticizes Apple doesn't know what they are talking about.
It might only have been one Carphone Warehouse shop out of many thousands, but the sales woman I spoke to had only one iPhone left out of about 16. I asked her how the lauch had been in comparison to iPhone v1 and she said that it had been massively more successful than first time round, and that the reason for this was the price.
It's impossible to say whether the strong first day sales of the iPhone 3G are down to the new technology it incorporates, or the price. My gut feeling tells me it was the price. Afterall, the Nokia 6300, which completely lacks 3G, wifi and GPS, was the best seller of 2007 in the UK. It didn't have the high tech specs, but it did have a cheap price.
It's pretty funny to see such comments when living and working in Switzerland...the fact is: the iPhone sold out in ALL Swiss outlets, period. And this in a country where pretty much every "advanced" phone is available as well, and where people normally don't care about new products.
Not really saying much when you consider that the whole country of Belgium has 250 iphones to sell and Hong Kong has 1500 iphones to sell.
Comments
I think it is more a case that they don't actually understand Europeans. I mean, there's even on this thread an example of someone who can't tell the difference between The Netherlands and Finland. Not surprising when so few US schools teach World Geography any more.
Apple tried to force a US model of mobile/cell phone use onto the UK and launched with a single provider on an exclusive deal that prevented large numbers of people from applying because O2 simply does not cover all populated areas in the UK. Small wonder loads of people hacked the iPhone then. Europeans are used to having freedom of choice.
On top of that they launched with an out of date v1 iPhone that only had a brilliant user interface going for it. If they built sales expectations for iPhone 3G on top of past demand, then no wonder they got caught out.
With iPhone 3g Apple have made significant improvements (although there is still plenty of room for more) and the demand showed that.
Sometimes Apple is too US centric. Or should that be - too deaf to what Europeans are telling them because as always, as Americans they think they know best?
Maybe they should poach a marketing/sales genius from an EU multinational to teach them how to market in Europe. They surely could afford it. I wonder if they realize that the European market is as big as the US market, yet they hardly make a dent here.
Maybe they should poach a marketing/sales genius from an EU multinational to teach them how to market in Europe. They surely could afford it. I wonder if they realize that the European market is as big as the US market, yet they hardly make a dent here.
Mmmm... Do da name Ruby Begonia ( Jean-Louis Gassée and Mike Spindler ) strike a familiar note?
I haven't seen reports from any other country in Europe yet, but at least here in Finland it was a total non-event.
http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/iP...799285?ref=rss
And for those who can't read Finnish, the article points out that most of those in the picture were only there for the free music and didn't even know what was going on.
The Finnish TV media called the iPhone over-priced and old technology wrapped in a new package. Probably a bit harsh, but not a total exaggeration.
Hopefully Apple will figure out the European market sometime, but I have to wonder if they can survive a price war with Nokia. No one else ever has.
The Finnish TV media called the iPhone over-priced and old technology wrapped in a new package. Probably a bit harsh, but not a total exaggeration.
Hopefully Apple will figure out the European market sometime, but I have to wonder if they can survive a price war with Nokia. No one else ever has.
Sapporobaby also commented about the non-event in Finland, but that was somewhat expected. After all, that is Nokia's home court. The Finnish launch seemed a bit odd to me, they had to know the response would not be great. Then I noticed that Sonera also launched the iPhone yesterday in Denmark, Sweden and Norway. The only other country they are in is Latvia, but they have just under a 50% stake so perhaps there is a reason there.
As for the TV media, the comment is backwards. The packaging is almost identical to the first, especially if looking at only the face. It's the inclusion of GPS and 3G and v2.0 (aka new technology) that is the major different over the old one. Now, if they are comparing to Nokia, then it's also incorrect as that is current technology.If they are nit-picking about the camera, they have a case there but to base a whole assessment of a MID/cellphone on the camera is still stretching it.
Remember, this is Apple's second attempt at a cell phone and it's only been 12 months since the first one was released. I think Apple the App Store and OS X are going to the powerhouse for the iPhone, but Nokia knows this, and they have started taking steps improve that aspect of their devices. Whether you want an iPhone or not, its presence is good for all users, which include Finns with Nokias.
Apple typically doesn't care about price wars, unless it's based on their predicted sales. For example, for the last several years SanDisk has lowered teh price of it's PMPs by a sold 40% for the holiday season, which give them a huge cut of the market for the quarter, but Apple never competes with that as unit sales mean nothing if there are no profits.
Feedback from my ass says otherwise.
This is by far the BEST iPhone-related post I have read in the past few months. If I wasn't focusing carefully on drinking my tea
Europe (that includes UK) iPhone 3G activation day one = epic fail.
Chance that 25 million iPhone 3Gs will be sold by December 31 2008 = very bloody high.
iPhone 3G sales = epic win.
iPhone 3G activation day one = epic fail.
Chance that 25 million iPhone 3Gs will be sold by December 31 2008 = very bloody high.
That estimate is even high for me. I wonder how many were sold yesterday? I bought one yesterday, but have to wait for AT&T to get the product in store. I'll be going by an Apple Store tomorrow so I'll see if they still have stock as I pass by, but I'm okay with waiting.
Let's face it, Europe = iPhone 3G all finished. What else need be said? I will be calling up several Italian retailers and post my findings back here.
This will take some time. Maybe a few bloody days. Hopefully it means nobody there has really bothered to buy or sell an iPhone 3G so I can go and get a prepaid one there.
http://www.slowtrav.com/valerie/ital...ning_hours.htm
That estimate is even high for me. I wonder how many were sold yesterday? I bought one yesterday, but have to wait for AT&T to get the product in store. I'll be going by an Apple Store tomorrow so I'll see if they still have stock as I pass by, but I'm okay with waiting.
I think it all depends how many iPhone 3Gs can Apple sustainably produce. As we can see from July 11 (a day that will go down in (Apple) infamy...!!!) Apple can sell 30-50 million phones in 5 months if it wants to. But the company would be in turmoil for years to come trying to manage all the chaos.
I think it all depends how many iPhone 3Gs can Apple sustainably produce. As we can see from July 11 (a day that will go down in (Apple) infamy...!!!) Apple can sell 30-50 million phones in 5 months if it wants to. But the company would be in turmoil for years to come trying to manage all the chaos.
I'm curious about the numbers for Friday worldwide. I can see 2M units being sold, which include people like me that paid on Friday but are still waiting for their product.
Come on, saying Europe sold out based on what happened in Switzerland is a total joke.
You didn't look far before belittling the first eye witness report did you - what do you prefer, to believe Nokia influenced propaganda? After all, Nokia does represent over 50% of the Finnish stock market. You really don't have to look far to find reports from the larger EU countries such as Germany that also sold out pretty quickly. The UK too.
As for a price war, Apple don't do price wars. They aim at premium markets and settle for high profits from lower volumes from high end products and get economies of scale by using the same components in many designs. Just look at the computer market - Microsoft has 90% market share but only twice the cash mountain as Apple, and as PC users are so used to saying, Apple only has a 3% market share (7% in the US). Apple also has no huge court cases in progress with steadily growing fines to pay for monopolistic practices.
Naturally, as a Finnish person you are patriotically supporting your only National world brand, and that's only right that you should. But I suspect there is also a little bit of envy in there too because you can see the iPhone is far more advanced than anything Nokia offers and is therefore a threat to the Finnish identity.
To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw, patriotism means that you support the country in which you were born (and everything that was made in it) because you were born in it.
But I suspect there is also a little bit of envy in there too because you can see the iPhone is far more advanced than anything Nokia offers and is therefore a threat to the Finnish identity.
I agree with your post, but that sentence should be qualified to refer to the iPhone's software as being far more advanced. To Nokia's credit, they have admitted to being behind on that aspect and invested a lot into addressing it.
You didn't look far before belittling the first eye witness report did you - what do you prefer, to believe Nokia influenced propaganda? After all, Nokia does represent over 50% of the Finnish stock market. You really don't have to look far to find reports from the larger EU countries such as Germany that also sold out pretty quickly. The UK too.
As for a price war, Apple don't do price wars. They aim at premium markets and settle for high profits from lower volumes from high end products and get economies of scale by using the same components in many designs. Just look at the computer market - Microsoft has 90% market share but only twice the cash mountain as Apple, and as PC users are so used to saying, Apple only has a 3% market share (7% in the US). Apple also has no huge court cases in progress with steadily growing fines to pay for monopolistic practices.
Naturally, as a Finnish person you are patriotically supporting your only National world brand, and that's only right that you should. But I suspect there is also a little bit of envy in there too because you can see the iPhone is far more advanced than anything Nokia offers and is therefore a threat to the Finnish identity.
To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw, patriotism means that you support the country in which you were born (and everything that was made in it) because you were born in it.
Heh, I wasn't born in Finland. And that is an ad hominem argument.
But anyway, of course they sold out in Germany, because they didn't have any phones to sell! It was the same everywhere else as well. Stocks were extremely limited everywhere. So it is pointless to crow about sales until after a few weeks or months when they actually have enough time to produce them.
And I know Apple tries to market itself (in most cases) as a premium brand and they will probably never achieve (nor want to) high percentages in any market. But it is extremely funny to me to watch everyone talking as though they will take over the mobile industry. Maybe they will, but only in a small niche. I have a house full of Apple products, but you guys really need to get a grip on reality. Anyway the comparison with Microsoft is pointless. The mobile market is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Technology wise, there is absolutely nothing about the iPhone that is new apart from the user interface. Most of the technological features of the iPhone are several years behind the market leaders. It even uses standard, off the shelf, components! So don't tell me that it is anything remarkable about it
Still, Apple's biggest danger is that good enough bets the best. You do realize that Nokia is the largest manufacturer in the world of digital cameras, digital music players, and soon GPS devices?
Heh, I wasn't born in Finland. And that is an ad hominem argument.
But anyway, of course they sold out in Germany, because they didn't have any phones to sell! It was the same everywhere else as well. Stocks were extremely limited everywhere. So it is pointless to crow about sales until after a few weeks or months when they actually have enough time to produce them.
And I know Apple tries to market itself (in most cases) as a premium brand and they will probably never achieve (nor want to) high percentages in any market. But it is extremely funny to me to watch everyone talking as though they will take over the mobile industry. Maybe they will, but only in a small niche. I have a house full of Apple products, but you guys really need to get a grip on reality. Anyway the comparison with Microsoft is pointless. The mobile market is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Technology wise, there is absolutely nothing about the iPhone that is new apart from the user interface. Most of the technological features of the iPhone are several years behind the market leaders. It even uses standard, off the shelf, components! So don't tell me that it is anything remarkable about it
Still, Apple's biggest danger is that good enough bets the best. You do realize that Nokia is the largest manufacturer in the world of digital cameras, digital music players, and soon GPS devices?
It's pretty funny to see such comments when living and working in Switzerland...the fact is: the iPhone sold out in ALL Swiss outlets, period. And this in a country where pretty much every "advanced" phone is available as well, and where people normally don't care about new products.
As for Nokia, they have dropped the ball a long time ago, and none of its products gets even close to the iPhone in terms of friendliness, features and UI. Yes, I am talking about an EASY way to use those features...not just to brag that your phone has a "browser", is 3G or handles email in a "easy" way.
The iPhone is the FIRST to do that, and that's why it's blowing every competitor out of the water. As for being "behind any other competitor", your comment can only be seen as a joke. Macs are better not because they use the latest XPD4560 chip out there...it's because they WORK in a seamless way to ordinary users.
Face it, patriotism or no patriotism: Nokia was great and one of the pioneers in the field (I even visited its nice headquarters when studying in Sweden); but its offerings are pretty pathetic when compared with even the FIRST phone product from Apple.
THIS is a result of sleeping on its laurels, and presuming others would not catch up.
The iPhone is the FIRST to do that, and that's why it's blowing every competitor out of the water. As for being "behind any other competitor", your comment can only be seen as a joke. Macs are better not because they use the latest XPD4560 chip out there...it's because they WORK in a seamless way to ordinary users.
Now that is funny
Don't assume everyone who criticizes Apple doesn't know what they are talking about.
Now that is funny
Don't assume everyone who criticizes Apple doesn't know what they are talking about.
Oh dear, you'd better switch to Vista.
Oh dear, you'd better switch to Vista.
No point, my XP box is rock solid. And also, the bluetooth Mighty Mouse connected to that iMac just stopped accepting clicks as well.
Oh, by the way, my brother (who is also not Finnish) is in Basel right now, and has been for several days. He said the phone shops were all empty.
It's impossible to say whether the strong first day sales of the iPhone 3G are down to the new technology it incorporates, or the price. My gut feeling tells me it was the price. Afterall, the Nokia 6300, which completely lacks 3G, wifi and GPS, was the best seller of 2007 in the UK. It didn't have the high tech specs, but it did have a cheap price.
It's pretty funny to see such comments when living and working in Switzerland...the fact is: the iPhone sold out in ALL Swiss outlets, period. And this in a country where pretty much every "advanced" phone is available as well, and where people normally don't care about new products.
Not really saying much when you consider that the whole country of Belgium has 250 iphones to sell and Hong Kong has 1500 iphones to sell.