Piper Jaffray says iPhone 3G's real cost to users: $407

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  • Reply 101 of 153
    murphywebmurphyweb Posts: 295member
    Look we are all correct here in a way. Of course solipsism is right in that this is the way that mobile phones have been sold for years, but John Nice (and me!) is also correct, Apple have certainly mislead people and judging by some of the comments on this thread people are still confused.



    But against what Solipsism says, I do not ever recall Sony or Nokia ever telling people that there phones were free. Nobody really believes that they are getting a free phone, they know full well they will pay for the phone over the length of the contract.



    But Steve Jobs clearly said and your photo proofs it that the iPhone would cost $199.



    It is a fact that the iPhone does not cost $199, it is just an upfront payment. And as I have already proved in Australia the iPhone costs $729 when bought without a contract, even taking a chunk of margin into consideration the iPhone MUST be costing Optus around $500, which makes sense as even buying the phone on a contract with Optus you pay $500 for the phone in a separate charge to your call plans.



    And to the people who are saying if that is the case why does your calling plan reduce once your 24 month contract is over on AT&T? Good question because on with the Optus model once you have paid your $500 phone off your call plan is only $19 per month, so that is exactly what happens on Optus. Why not AT&T? You probably need to ask them.



    So yes, the iPhone will only cost you $199 on the day you buy it, but can you really say the iPhone is only $199? Can you say it is half price? In Australia you can get an iPhone for $0 upfront on even the lowest tarrif, but nobody is claiming it is free.



    Hey, and please do not think this is an anti-iphone stance, It looks like I am buying one for the wife in a couple of weeks (when they become available), though I am sticking with my BB for now.
  • Reply 102 of 153
    murphywebmurphyweb Posts: 295member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by superkaratemonkeydeathcar View Post


    To all the people bitching about the prices:

    Yes, learning something new is always hard, and the first week of freshman year is always awkward, I'm there with you, so:



    WELCOME TO THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF TCO



    please tip your IT Buyer or Capcacity Planner on the way out; try the veal -it's great.

    and yes, sometimes the electricity to run it costs more than the server; the halon costs more than the os, etc. etc. etc.





    Sorry, you are mistaken. This has nothing to do with TCO, we are not talking about running costs here. We are talking about capital costs, i.e. the amount of money you spend on the phone.



    The TV analogy is a great one but someone tried to muddy the waters by talking about cable subscription. This was not the analogy. It is the cost of repaying the finance on your purchase, just like buying an iphone. This is not really TCO.
  • Reply 103 of 153
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,036member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post


    Look we are all correct here in a way. Of course solipsism is right in that this is the way that mobile phones have been sold for years, but John Nice (and me!) is also correct, Apple have certainly mislead people and judging by some of the comments on this thread people are still confused.



    But against what Solipsism says, I do not ever recall Sony or Nokia ever telling people that there phones were free. Nobody really believes that they are getting a free phone, they know full well they will pay for the phone over the length of the contract.



    But Steve Jobs clearly said and your photo proofs it that the iPhone would cost $199.



    It is a fact that the iPhone does not cost $199, it is just an upfront payment. And as I have already proved in Australia the iPhone costs $729 when bought without a contract, even taking a chunk of margin into consideration the iPhone MUST be costing Optus around $500, which makes sense as even buying the phone on a contract with Optus you pay $500 for the phone in a separate charge to your call plans.



    And to the people who are saying if that is the case why does your calling plan reduce once your 24 month contract is over on AT&T? Good question because on with the Optus model once you have paid your $500 phone off your call plan is only $19 per month, so that is exactly what happens on Optus. Why not AT&T? You probably need to ask them.



    So yes, the iPhone will only cost you $199 on the day you buy it, but can you really say the iPhone is only $199? Can you say it is half price? In Australia you can get an iPhone for $0 upfront on even the lowest tarrif, but nobody is claiming it is free.



    Hey, and please do not think this is an anti-iphone stance, It looks like I am buying one for the wife in a couple of weeks (when they become available), though I am sticking with my BB for now.





    The trouble with most of the people that are saying that the 3G iPhone doesn't really cost $199 is that they are looking at it from the view point of paying for the phone first and the plan second. If you turn it around and determine that you need a certain plan (voice + data) and that plan will cosr you about $70/month. Regardless of carrier. And there are several choices of "free" phones with the plan. Can you really tell me that the 3G iPhone won't cost me just $199. I was going to have to pay $70/month anyways for the plan I need. So don't tell that the 3G iPhone doesn't reaally cosr $199 because I HAVE to sign up for a two year $70/month plan. Not when I already determined that the $70/month plan is what I need.



    Believe or not, most people shop around for the plan they need first and then see what kind of deal they can get on a phone. The phone, regardless of how much you pay for it, is cheap comparred to the cost of the plan. The phone is a one time cost. The plan will still cost you $70/month way after your two year contract is up.



    BTW- I'm tallking US here. Obviously there are far more choices in plans in other countries.
  • Reply 104 of 153
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post


    Sorry, you are mistaken. This has nothing to do with TCO, we are not talking about running costs here. We are talking about capital costs, i.e. the amount of money you spend on the phone.



    The world doesn't work like that.



    Your model is penny wise and dollar stupid. You worried about the $600 handset price. You should instead be worried about the $1600-$1800 in phone plan costs.



    Always worry about the figures with more digits.
  • Reply 105 of 153
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    The world doesn't work like that.



    Your model is penny wise and dollar stupid. You worried about the $600 handset price. You should instead be worried about the $1600-$1800 in phone plan costs.



    Always worry about the figures with more digits.



    I think you are mistaking him, his whole point from the beginning was that the total cost was being added to the monthly bill over 2 years, and that you COULDN'T just look at the $199 price.
  • Reply 106 of 153
    tripotripo Posts: 74member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 4metta View Post


    N

    You do realize that Apple wouldn't dream of limiting it's potential customer base to just one carrier for too long don't you? Whatever it takes it will be done. Too many limitations on Apple's potential profit to be available just on AT&T here for much longer.



    HAil to that! Hail , Hail !
  • Reply 107 of 153
    tripotripo Posts: 74member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 4metta View Post


    N

    You do realize that Apple wouldn't dream of limiting it's potential customer base to just one carrier for too long don't you? Whatever it takes it will be done. Too many limitations on Apple's potential profit to be available just on AT&T here for much longer.



    HAil to that! Hail , Hail !
  • Reply 108 of 153
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    You all keep blaming and bitching about AT&T but isn't it Apple's advertising that's blatantly marketing iPhone 3G as "HALF THE PRICE"?

    Apple's conning you, not AT&T.



    I love how representing a item for a price and selling it for that much is a con. I am required to pay sales tax on items but that is never represented. I am required to pay car insurance for the life of the car, registration, tag, title with any car purchase but that is never represented in the price. But somehow Apple sells a product for half the price as it did last year, but decides not to go the "good faith" route by assuming you'll do right by them and AT&T and sign with AT&T so they are somehow evil scammers. Do you have a sprunger?
  • Reply 109 of 153
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John Nice View Post


    you paid $1250 for the TV $50 x $24, the service is entirely separate.



    with the iPhone, the service ISN'T separate from the phone for the "reduced" price of $199.



    in the example of the TV, Best Buy, or whoever, doesn't care one way or the other who you get your HD service from.



    you could choose NOT to even get the HD service after a change of heart. that is not possible with the iPhone. you are always going to at least pay the first month and early termination fee, and activation fee, whether you actually use the phone or not.



    one way to think of it is, What is the cheapest amount you can pay to buy a new iPhone and own it outright, without having to make anymore payments of any kind?



    the answer definitely isn't $199.



    the $199 is only a down payment followed by some deferred billing, and to present it in any other fashion is pretty shady.



    But again, why are you buying an HD TV without buying an HD service? why do you want to buy an iPhone and use it with T-Mobile (3G won't work in T-Mobile)? It is not about what you have to do or what you have to sign when you buy it. AT&T charge iPhone users what they charge everyone else in term of voice and data plans and even activation and termination fees are the same for all AT&T phones and customers. So, can you tell me where is the hidden fee AT&T charges iPhone users that they don't charge everyone else? I asked many posters here before and no one seems to know.



    Furthermore, we are talking about the cost side not choice. Even if you go with T-Mobile you will still pay almost the same monthly fees and you might not have 3G.



    Apple did give you a choice it is called iPod Touch and it does start at $299 without contracts or obligations and you can use any carrier with seperate handset.
  • Reply 110 of 153
    tripotripo Posts: 74member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    (3G won't work in T-Mobile)? It is not about what you have to do or what you have to sign when you buy it. AT&T charge iPhone users what they charge everyone else in term of voice and data plans and even activation and termination fees are the same for all AT&T phones and customers. So, can you tell me where is the hidden fee AT&T charges iPhone users that they don't charge everyone else? I asked many posters here before and no one seems to know.



    Furthermore, we are talking about the cost side not choice. Even if you go with T-Mobile you will still pay almost the same monthly fees and you might not have 3G.



    Apple did give you a choice it is called iPod Touch and it does start at $299 without contracts or obligations and you can use any carrier with seperate handset.



    This is ridiculous! the iPod Touch is simply a different product , so please save us the nonsense !



    I do not live in the USA - so now i can not buy the phone and just use it WORLDWIDE.

    NOOOO - i have to pay 2000$ for nothing ,. or actually 500 Euros in Greece which is close to DOUBLE the price (somewhere near the 600$ mark) ? BUT all my friends can ?



    AND i do NOT need the stupid 3G, so i care less about the coverage.

    I do feel lied by Apple saying it's cheaper , cause it's actually not just more expensive , it is , in fact NOT AVAILABLE .



    SIMPLE - i use other carrier - iPhone = 400$ , iPhone 3G= 2000$ + giving ID-s and shit to AT&T (third party) whom i do NOT trust etc etc etc..



    WHERE is the CHEAPER part ..i feel i've totally missed it!
  • Reply 111 of 153
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,036member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John Nice View Post


    maybe you just aren't reading my posts.



    as I said, since you can't just buy the DEVICE alone at those prices, you HAVE to include the service plans for both the original and 3G phones.



    it is never even CHEAPER with the 3G iPhone, let alone "half-price"



    you can only talk about pricing them separately when you can BUY them separately at those prices.



    So using your logic. If a 2007 Honda cost $25,000 at the begining of 2007 and Honda later sell that same car for $20,000, at the end of 2007, You would be saying that Honda is lying if they advertise that you are saving $5000 because the price of gas had gone up $1.50/gal since the beginging of the year. Thus buying that Honda at the begining of the year and driving for 1 year would actually have been cheaper than buying that car at the end of the year and driving it for 1 year.



    Now I know that I can buy that car and never have to buy any gas for it. But that wouldn't make any sense. Even though the car and gas are separate, they are both needed for you to have a form of transportation. (Well, I guess you can push the car to work and back, Just to prove your point, Just like the phone and a plan are needed to have a communication device,



    I can also turn your argument around and ask you this. Show me where I can get the same features (and coverage) of the $70/month ATT plan (required for the 3G iPhone) that cost less than $70/month without a subsidized phone. If you can't separate the actual cost of the plan from the phone subsidy portion, then you can't say that the 3G iPhone actually cost more than $199. The plan is going to cost $70/month regardless. Thus the 3G iPhone is $199. Period.



    BTW- Again I'm talking in the US here.
  • Reply 112 of 153
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tripo View Post


    This is ridiculous! the iPod Touch is simply a different product , so please save us the nonsense !



    I do not live in the USA - so now i can not buy the phone and just use it WORLDWIDE.

    NOOOO - i have to pay 2000$ for nothing ,. or actually 500 Euros in Greece which is close to DOUBLE the price (somewhere near the 600$ mark) ? BUT all my friends can ?



    AND i do NOT need the stupid 3G, so i care less about the coverage.

    I do feel lied by Apple saying it's cheaper , cause it's actually not just more expensive , it is , in fact NOT AVAILABLE .



    SIMPLE - i use other carrier - iPhone = 400$ , iPhone 3G= 2000$ + giving ID-s and shit to AT&T (third party) whom i do NOT trust etc etc etc..



    WHERE is the CHEAPER part ..i feel i've totally missed it!



    The cheaper part is the how much you have to fork over for the handset at the time of purchase. That fact that you are in another country means the $199 price doesn't apply to you, so why do think it should. between VATs and import tax the iPhone is going to be considerably more expensive abroad unless the carrier steps in. If you want a contract free iPhone outside the US you'll have to pay more. If you don't need 3G then you should just get an original iPhone, you still get v2.0 with it, though right now I'd prefer to have v1.1.4 as it's faster and more stable.



    I thought it was bad enough that people were calling Apple a lier for quoting the price of the handset and not the TCO, but now you are saying they are lying because it's not available in your country? Unreal!
  • Reply 113 of 153
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tripo View Post


    This is ridiculous! the iPod Touch is simply a different product , so please save us the nonsense !



    I do not live in the USA - so now i can not buy the phone and just use it WORLDWIDE.

    NOOOO - i have to pay 2000$ for nothing ,. or actually 500 Euros in Greece which is close to DOUBLE the price (somewhere near the 600$ mark) ? BUT all my friends can ?



    AND i do NOT need the stupid 3G, so i care less about the coverage.

    I do feel lied by Apple saying it's cheaper , cause it's actually not just more expensive , it is , in fact NOT AVAILABLE .



    SIMPLE - i use other carrier - iPhone = 400$ , iPhone 3G= 2000$ + giving ID-s and shit to AT&T (third party) whom i do NOT trust etc etc etc..



    WHERE is the CHEAPER part ..i feel i've totally missed it!



    Other than the wireless data and voice feature ther two products are basically the same. You used to pay $399 before and $199 now, that's how it is cheaper (whether you qualify or not this is your problem) and to use the phone you need a voice and a data plan (unless you know a carrier that never charge for those). Just because Apple and carriers implemented the same method used when you buy any other locked phone does not make it more expensive. Furthermore, all other carrier sell phones with contract the same way and your AT&T trust issues are your problem. It is also not Apple job to make it easier for you to hack their products.



    Last year I paid $599 for the 1st gen 8GB iphone minus $100 credit store = $499 with AT&T

    Yesterday I paid $299 for 3G 16GB iPhone with AT&T

    Even a 2nd graded knows that $299 is less than $499.. it is even less that the $399 people paid for their iPhones 2 months ago!!!
  • Reply 114 of 153
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The cheaper part is the how much you have to fork over for the handset at the time of purchase.



    you seem to be proving the case for me. Thanks!



    the price you pay at time of purchase is the down payment, you are not free from obligation at that point, in fact, you still have the majority of the phone left to pay off.



    you may not want to acknowledge that the fact that they raised the price of the plan has any effect on the cost of the phone, even though you have no choice in plan, and there are mandatory minimums that you will pay for the plan even if you never use it.



    THAT'S OK!



    you may even want to say that Apple has nothing to do with the plan side of the equation, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE A MONTHLY REVENUE SHARING DEAL WITH AT & T.



    THAT'S OK TOO!



    at the end of the day, no-one is paying anything less for the iPhone 3G, except for the initial down payment.



    that might be a good thing, or a bad thing, it all depends on your individual circumstances.



    as for it being a con, con might be a bit strong.



    but to imply to people that the down payment they are making is less, so they are saving money IS duplicitous, even if many other businesses follow similar sales practices.



    it's unfortunate to see Apple resorting to used car salesman kind of tactics.
  • Reply 115 of 153
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John Nice View Post


    you seem to be proving the case for me. Thanks!



    the price you pay at time of purchase is the down payment, you are not free from obligation at that point, in fact, you still have the majority of the phone left to pay off.



    you may not want to acknowledge that the fact that they raised the price of the plan has any effect on the cost of the phone, even though you have no choice in plan, and there are mandatory minimums that you will pay for the plan even if you never use it.



    THAT'S OK!



    you may even want to say that Apple has nothing to do with the plan side of the equation, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE A MONTHLY REVENUE SHARING DEAL WITH AT & T.



    THAT'S OK TOO!



    at the end of the day, no-one is paying anything less for the iPhone 3G, except for the initial down payment.



    that might be a good thing, or a bad thing, it all depends on your individual circumstances.



    as for it being a con, con might be a bit strong.



    but to imply to people that the down payment they are making is less, so they are saving money IS duplicitous, even if many other businesses follow similar sales practices.



    it's unfortunate to see Apple resorting to used car salesman kind of tactics.



    Your posts can't be serious. I can't imagine anyone being this obtuse. the device costs x amount with a 2-year contract. That does not negate the fact that I can walk in and pay $199+tax for the device. Apple has clearly stated that there is a contract. The previous iPhone also required a contract, it just wasn't enforceable. You could walk in and pay $399+tax for the device. This time Apple is getting for the full retail price from AT&T up front, hence the in-store contract, whereas before it was a monthly payment by AT&T to Apple. $400 divided by 2 is $200. It's pretty damn simple.
  • Reply 116 of 153
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:

    the price you pay at time of purchase is the down payment, you are not free from obligation at that point, in fact, you still have the majority of the phone left to pay off.



    you may not want to acknowledge that the fact that they raised the price of the plan has any effect on the cost of the phone, even though you have no choice in plan, and there are mandatory minimums that you will pay for the plan even if you never use it.



    And how much of that monthly payment is going to cover the price of the iPhone?! As I have said earlier and I will say it a thousand times "AT&T is not charging iPhone buyer any less or more than what they charge anyone else who uses their voice and data plans". They might have a minimum plan but you are still getting the minutes specified for that plan. And by the way, if you are an existing customer you got to keep your existing voice plan even if it is below the minimum.

    One more thing, AT&T never increased the price of the data plan. The data plan cost $30/month even before the 1st gen iPhone came out last year (Actually it is $35/month without a contract).

    My friend have AT&T voice and data plan. He got the iPhone on Saturday for $199. He kept his voice and data plan and his monthly payment went up $0! so how did you come out with the idea that AT&T is financing the iPhone since his monthly payment did not change?!
  • Reply 117 of 153
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    And how much of that monthly payment is going to cover the price of the iPhone?! As I have said earlier and I will say it a thousand times "AT&T is not charging iPhone buyer any less or more than what they charge anyone else who uses their voice and data plans". They might have a minimum plan but you are still getting the minutes specified for that plan. And by the way, if you are an existing customer you got to keep your existing voice plan even if it is below the minimum.

    One more thing, AT&T never increased the price of the data plan. The data plan cost $30/month even before the 1st gen iPhone came out last year (Actually it is $35/month without a contract).

    My friend have AT&T voice and data plan. He got the iPhone on Saturday for $199. He kept his voice and data plan and his monthly payment went up $0! so how did you come out with the idea that AT&T is financing the iPhone since his monthly payment did not change?!



    again, maybe you guys are just not actually reading the posts, but the American cell phone buyers SHOULDN'T be paying the same prices for subsidized phones as for non-subsidized phones.



    the fact that we are has more to do with the fact that many of us seem to not be able to understand the concept of deferred billing than with anything else.



    ask your friend if he had to re-up with AT&T for another 2 years?



    I'm sure he did, and in that contract lies that phone repayment money.



    in theory, his bill should go down at the end of two years as the phone is paid off, as it does in most other countries, but it has never sunk in over here that the price you pay for the phone at sign-up (whether it's free, $199, or ten million) is only part of the price you pay for the phone.



    one day maybe it will sink in and prices can rationalize, but if the arguments on the forum are any indication, it won't be any time soon.



    but as a last attempt, think of it this way.



    when you buy a car, most people use financing of some sort, some have down payments, some don't. some have longer repayment periods than others etc.



    but in ALL cases the original price of the car was the same (usually, or at least fairly similar).



    that price, is the minimum price that you could have left the dealership with the car paid off.



    with the iPhone, while there are many different nominal price points you can pay, you won't have the phone paid off with just the $199, you will still have to pay the minimum line charges, so they NEED to be included in the price.



    with a car purchase that doesn't happen so they don't include it in the price, but if they DID, you would do well to do so.



    they could sell me the car for $1, but if I HAVE to pay a 30 thousand dollar financing charge, that is going to effect the outcome.



    if your obligations to pay off the phone AREN'T satisfied by paying the $199, then you HAVEN'T actually paid for the phone yet, it really is that simple.



    on the original iPhone there was a much higher down payment and a lower monthly charge, that was reversed for the 3G.



    the fact that Apple SHARES the monthly revenue with AT&T should go even farther in showing that the phone and the monthly contract are inseparable.



    it doesn't make it a bad deal, or a bad plan, or some evil agenda, it just means that saying you "bought" an iPhone for $199 isn't by any means accurate. and it is misleading at best for them to describe it as selling for "half price."



    many have said that AT&T is just bringing the price of the plans in-line with their other plans, and that may be true to a degree, but the reason that the plan was lower for the first gen phone, was that everyone had to pay full price, so there was no need to add any subsidy charges onto the monthly bill, not that we were getting any sort of discount or anything.
  • Reply 118 of 153
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John Nice View Post


    again, maybe you guys are just not actually reading the posts, but the American cell phone buyers SHOULDN'T be paying the same prices for subsidized phones as for non-subsidized phones.



    This is about AT&T pricing does not reflect all cell phones in America. Perhaps you meant "American iPhone buyers" but with the apparent lack of understanding about differences in devices and services I thoughtit best to make sure before preceeding.



    Anyway, you aren't paying the same price for subsidized and unsubsidized phones: Eligible subsidized iPhones are $199/$299, ineligible subsidized iPhones are $299/$499, and unsubsidized iPhones will be $599/$699. What you are paying the same price for is the cellular services from AT&T.



    What you aren't considering is that I pay the same amount from other phones and other carriers. The reason for the subsidization is to lock me into a contract. Take a hit on initial profits and get the customer for 2 full years. If they stop paying then we charge them a cancelation fee, if they don't pay we send them to collections, hence the initial credit check. This is all standard practice, there is slight-of-hand or skullduggery going on here outside of the usual legal but sometime questionable marketing tactics which you seem to have fallen for.
  • Reply 119 of 153
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John Nice View Post


    they could sell me the car for $1, but if I HAVE to pay a 30 thousand dollar financing charge, that is going to effect the outcome.



    if your obligations to pay off the phone AREN'T satisfied by paying the $199, then you HAVEN'T actually paid for the phone yet, it really is that simple.



    it doesn't make it a bad deal, or a bad plan, or some evil agenda, it just means that saying you "bought" an iPhone for $199 isn't by any means accurate. and it is misleading at best for them to describe it as selling for "half price."



    You're reading too much into one part and not enough of another.



    Even if paid 30k for a car in cash your financial obligations are still not settled. You are required to pay for tag, title, registration and car insurance. If you do finance i believe you are required to pay for full coverage whether you want to or not. According to your logic, since that affects the outcome they shouldn't advertise a $30k car as $30k.



    Your next rebuttal would probably be that since your obligation for those other fees are not paid to the auto dealership then they don't need to be stated. But if you cancel your contract with AT&T you don't have to pay Apple anymore than you already have. My receipt from the Apple Store says $318.44. That is it. a 16GB iPhone + sales tax. That is what I bought the iPhone for. We all understand that there are other requirements for that price, but don't cloud the service agreement with the product.
  • Reply 120 of 153
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,036member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John Nice View Post


    ............at the end of the day, no-one is paying anything less for the iPhone 3G, except for the initial down payment.





    Don't bet any money you can't afford to lose on that statement. Here's why.



    ATT gives all of the employees of the company I work for a 25% discount on cell phone plans. This is because my company signed a hugh business contract to have them supply us with celluar service. ATT (and other carriers) does this with a lot of companies. The 25% discount applies only to the voice portion of the plan you have. No discount for data, extra lines, Text, MultiMedia package. etc. We do get free activation. So I save about $10/Month on my $40/month voice plan. (and yes, my two year contract came with a "free" Sony phone.)



    So anyways, last year when the iPhone came out, it came with a special $60/Month voice/data package. Guess what? ATT would not give the 25% discount on that plan because they could not separate out the voice portion of the plan from the data. The iPhone would have cost me $399+$60/Month (for 24 Months).



    Well this year the 3G iPhone comes with their standard voice and data plan. They are two separate part of the plan. ATT will now give me a 25% discount on the $40/Month voice part of the plan. That's a $10 saving per month. So the the 3G iphone will now cost me $199 + $60/Month (for 24 months) with my discount. It doesn't matter what kind of fuzzy math you use, I (and all my fellow workers) can get the 3g iphone CHEAPER than the old iPhone. Even if it's only cheaper by the difference of the tax between $399 and $199.



    And it may get better. I haven't confirmed it yet but a fellow worker called ATT to inquire about the 3G iPhone and they told him that ATT will now expand the 25% discount to include data. That would be another saving of $7.50/month (for 24 months)



    So there you have it. Someone that can actually get the 3G iPhone CHEAPER than the old iPhone. But I may be considered a "no one" to you.\
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