Being able to play material from my iTunes on my TV is not worth $229 to me. And it's not going to be worth it to a lot of people considering how the economy is going. Apple has already scaled back it's push of AppleTV. The writing is on the wall. It might stick around, but the promise it had has died out because Apple was slow to add features and get rid of their love of proprietary formats.
The only people who will buy this are apple fanatics or people who are computer illiterate and can only deal with something when it's beyond easy. AppleTV has lost almost all of it's sex appeal in the consumer media player market over the past year.
How 'bout backing that up, buddy, huh? I have all of my DVDs ripped to my Mac and the Apple TV is the perfect device to serve all of that media to me on the big screen in my living room. I personally know others who do the same thing. Not worth it to you but worth it to me. And speaking as a 45 year-old gadget freak who's weathered many down-turns in the economy, that has never stopped me from purchasing anything that gives me pleasure.
It is interesting how Apple will release numbers when they are impressive, like the 50,000 a day and the iPhone numbers but they won't say how the AppleTV is selling. Maybe if people know AppleTV was doing well, people might buy it with confidence the product won't be discontinued.
Analysts estimated that there were approximately 1,000,000 Apple TV sales in its first year before the Apple TV 2.0 update was released. Analysts have estimated that sales had quadrupled after the 2.0 release.. Whether those numbers have sustained is unknown..
It is interesting how Apple will release numbers when they are impressive, like the 50,000 a day and the iPhone numbers but they won't say how the AppleTV is selling. Maybe if people know AppleTV was doing well, people might buy it with confidence the product won't be discontinued.
I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.
How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.
That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day
The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.
If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.
So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.
Get back to me in 3 months when sony and microsoft are renting 100,000+ a day each and the amounts keep going up.
How 'bout we get back to you in three months when they're not?
Xbox has had movie rentals including hi-def for months now, and people just haven't been using it much. Maybe that will change all of a sudden, but until that happens it's just speculation and wishful thinking.
Right now, Apple is top in video download sales and rentals. Period. When that changes, we'll talk.
It's cool that these other platforms are adding netflix support (why doesn't apple negotiate it as well?) but it will never be a major player until Netflix starts getting recent mainstream releases available for streaming. And that may not ever happen. In the meantime, it's decent for TV episodes, older movies, and indies, but it simply isn't a competitive service overall.
I think for the AppleTV to compete well, they need to open it up, and make significant changes.
If Apple wants to stay in the television business in the long term, I think they?ll eventually have to start making complete television sets rather than simply set-top boxes. Before long, the kind of technology that AppleTV offers now will just be included in a TV when you buy it, rather than needing separate appliances. They could strike a deal with set manufacturers to include Apple technology in their products, but that would probably be about as successful as the iTunes Motorola ROKR. They already have ample experience in producing displays and audio equipment, so they?d be better off just doing the whole thing themselves; and, being Apple, it?d also be a very desirable product.
I don't know! Apple tends to be very careful with Gaming at the moment. It's like they are testing the water before going in. They trying very hard at taking over the Video Market, but its quite hard. They not even marketing Apple TV. I haven't seen a single ad or banner or discount on Apple TV. Something is funny!
I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.
How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.
That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day
The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.
If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.
So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.
Don't forget that you can watch movies on a computer or iPod, so the number of rentals tells us nothing about the number of aTVs.
So, I see that you registered here on AI today.... Who do you work for Sony or Microsoft?
Neither. I have owned many macs and used them probably 95% of time since 1992. I have purchased FCP since version 3 and also own Logic Studio and Aperture. I had another account here but haven't used it in about a year because I don't really care to talk about the iPhone 95% of the time. I had forgotten my username and password and the email account I used to register the account was deleted so I couldn't recover it.
If you want to say that everything that Apple does is perfect and ignore reality, then go for it.
If Apple wants to stay in the television business in the long term, I think they?ll eventually have to start making complete television sets rather than simply set-top boxes. Before long, the kind of technology that AppleTV offers now will just be included in a TV when you buy it, rather than needing separate appliances. They could strike a deal with set manufacturers to include Apple technology in their products, but that would probably be about as successful as the iTunes Motorola ROKR. They already have ample experience in producing displays and audio equipment, so they?d be better off just doing the whole thing themselves; and, being Apple, it?d also be a very desirable product.
Nah, don't agree...
Apple only makes a product if it feels it can better what the competition is doing.. The way they better their products is through software.. There is not much than can be done to improve upon the current high end sets by the likes of Sony, Samsung.. And there is not much likelihood of future sets including media centers built in..
Furthermore, Apple products generally expand upon their current ecosystem.. And again, there is not much more that televsion sets could do to add value to their current ecosystem..
Analysts estimated that there were approximately 1,000,000 Apple TV sales in its first year before the Apple TV 2.0 update was released. Analysts have estimated that sales had quadrupled after the 2.0 release.. Whether those numbers have sustained is unknown..
We don't know if that's true.
Also, Apple fans hate an analyst and his numbers if the numbers are low, love them if they're high.
We don't get the actual reports to see how they arrived at those numbers. The stories we see here on AI only really pull the highlights at best, the real reports often cost $250 and up.
If you remember the first iPhone launch, there as an analyst or maybe a few that were saying there would be 1 millon iPhones sold the first weekend, the actual number was a quarter that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmoeser
I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.
How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.
That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day
The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.
If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.
So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.
I think all that assumes AppleTV is required to do the renting. Only the HD movies require AppleTV. SD movies can be rented through the computer, iPod and iPhone.
If you want to say that everything that Apple does is perfect and ignore reality, then go for it.
I don't praise everything Apple does..
If you'd like proof, Feel free to read my comments posted just today regarding the current MobileMe 'Push" disaster...
I praise when deserved, I criticize just as easily when I feel it's deserved.
The flexibility with in the Apple ecosystem and the Apple TV/ iTunes integration is far superior to anything the competition is offering.. It's not ignoring reality, it's fact.
I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.
How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.
That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day
The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.
If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.
So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.
Unfortunately, there is no telling how many rentals are through AppleTV and how many are through the computer/iPod. Apple doesn't have problem releasing how many movies they sold or how many iPods they sold or how many iPhones they sold. It really would nice to know how many have been sold instead of conjuring up numbers to see if this will be a successful product.
Sony is surprising me. Now that PS3 is arguably *the* best Blu-ray player on the market, can now download HD content, and play games, surf, & stream audio/photos/video, play SACDs, act as a DVR, and soon interface with iphone/itouch, it looks like I'll be picking up one for the family (I have 3 kids). $500 aint too bad for all that! Too bad there's not an Apple offering that even comes close. Aside from gaming, these other features are low hanging fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad
1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV. Maybe its just me or not, but I see Apple TV targeted towards Family Audience and XBOX and PS3 towards younger generation and teenagers.
I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.\
2. To fight back, Apple just have to make Apple TV compatible with Games and other Apps and make Apple Remote into a Wii like pointer with Accelerometer.
At the very least these developments might push Apple to finally include an optical drive option for the Apple TV.
There never has been a rational argument for not including an optical drive at least as an option (and no, the fact that digital downloads are "the future" doesn't qualify as a rational reason). Think about it, you'll see it makes no sense.
There are many many more consumers that would buy something familiar like a new DVD player that happened to do some cool internet stuff, than there are consumers who will go out looking for a box just to do the cool Internet stuff. My Mum never figured out what a DVD player was until they had been common for a few years, many people are like that. Try even explaining what an Apple TV does to those folks. They'd love to buy the movies once they saw the thing working but the entry barrier to them adopting this kind of technology is extremely high.
This is kind of a blind spot for Apple in that they have little clue what the average middle-class non-techie USA-ian thinks like. You pretty much already have to be a cool Apple product user to even know what the hell Apple TV is right now. If it was sold instead as a game box that plays Blu-Ray discs, it would be much more saleable whether Apple believes that to be reasonable behaviour on the part of consumers or not.
It's also fairly clear, as someone has already noted above, that "eventually, eventually" Apple will pretty much have to get into making TV's to stay in this market. Perhaps they should just bite the bullet and buy Sony now (although it may be cheaper in a few years *wink*).
Like as not, the only reason for the languishing of the Apple TV is just prioritisation of Apple's tiny, itsy-bitsy, overworked staff and we will see a new Apple TV by Fall with an optical drive and a lot of other keen stuff.
Not a chance.. As Apple has proven time and time again, It's not just features, it's the software. The iTunes integration alone offers something those other devices will never be able to offer.
Between xBox and PS3, about 30 million people now have the ability to rent or buy digital movies with a device they already own. I think most of those people would conclude that even if the Apple TV is a little more elegant to use, the $200 saved by just using the device they have would pay for a lot of movie rentals. This would be especially true for Netflix subscribers who own an xBox.
Regardless, I think the entire digital video rentals/purchases concept is still a novelty, due to the distribution limitations set by the studios, and will remain so if they don't become more open with content availability. Netflix's instant streaming feature is more or less limited to films no one wants to watch; I currently have 14 films in my Netflix queue, and the only one I can watch instantly is "Casablanca". Likewise, AppleTV's selection is largely made up of catalogue titles no one wants to see, while they continually pull popular titles after they've been available for a few months. For any of these digital rental/purchase services to work, they've got to build a library that has no bounds, similar to the iTunes music selection. Otherwise, people cannot and will not come to rely on their Apple TV/xBox/PS3 as the way to rent/buy movies.
Also, as HDTV prices continue to plummet and more people make the upgrade, people will want content that makes them appreciate their big fancy televisions. Streamed HD content that looks like an upconverted DVD ain't going to cut it.
Comments
Being able to play material from my iTunes on my TV is not worth $229 to me. And it's not going to be worth it to a lot of people considering how the economy is going. Apple has already scaled back it's push of AppleTV. The writing is on the wall. It might stick around, but the promise it had has died out because Apple was slow to add features and get rid of their love of proprietary formats.
The only people who will buy this are apple fanatics or people who are computer illiterate and can only deal with something when it's beyond easy. AppleTV has lost almost all of it's sex appeal in the consumer media player market over the past year.
How 'bout backing that up, buddy, huh? I have all of my DVDs ripped to my Mac and the Apple TV is the perfect device to serve all of that media to me on the big screen in my living room. I personally know others who do the same thing. Not worth it to you but worth it to me. And speaking as a 45 year-old gadget freak who's weathered many down-turns in the economy, that has never stopped me from purchasing anything that gives me pleasure.
It is interesting how Apple will release numbers when they are impressive, like the 50,000 a day and the iPhone numbers but they won't say how the AppleTV is selling. Maybe if people know AppleTV was doing well, people might buy it with confidence the product won't be discontinued.
Analysts estimated that there were approximately 1,000,000 Apple TV sales in its first year before the Apple TV 2.0 update was released. Analysts have estimated that sales had quadrupled after the 2.0 release.. Whether those numbers have sustained is unknown..
Get back to me in 3 months when sony and microsoft are renting 100,000+ a day each and the amounts keep going up.
There's an Australian movie called The Castle.
Your dreaming!
If they get to those figures, great! It means the studios will have accepted the new method of distributing media - which was pioneered by Apple
Apple will be happy to keep selling the quantity they are selling as it is obviously making money for them and the studios.
The days of microsoft and sony making interfaces as innovative, seamless and simple as apple never happened and never will.
They may make their version of it, but it won't be innovative.
It is interesting how Apple will release numbers when they are impressive, like the 50,000 a day and the iPhone numbers but they won't say how the AppleTV is selling. Maybe if people know AppleTV was doing well, people might buy it with confidence the product won't be discontinued.
I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.
How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.
That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day
The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.
If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.
So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.
Get back to me in 3 months when sony and microsoft are renting 100,000+ a day each and the amounts keep going up.
How 'bout we get back to you in three months when they're not?
Xbox has had movie rentals including hi-def for months now, and people just haven't been using it much. Maybe that will change all of a sudden, but until that happens it's just speculation and wishful thinking.
Right now, Apple is top in video download sales and rentals. Period. When that changes, we'll talk.
It's cool that these other platforms are adding netflix support (why doesn't apple negotiate it as well?) but it will never be a major player until Netflix starts getting recent mainstream releases available for streaming. And that may not ever happen. In the meantime, it's decent for TV episodes, older movies, and indies, but it simply isn't a competitive service overall.
There's an Australian movie called The Castle.
Your dreaming!
If they get to those figures, great! It means the studios will have accepted the new method of distributing media - which was pioneered by Apple
Apple will be happy to keep selling the quantity they are selling as it is obviously making money for them and the studios.
The days of microsoft and sony making interfaces as innovative, seamless and simple as apple never happened and never will.
They may make their version of it, but it won't be innovative.
Agree!!!
I think for the AppleTV to compete well, they need to open it up, and make significant changes.
If Apple wants to stay in the television business in the long term, I think they?ll eventually have to start making complete television sets rather than simply set-top boxes. Before long, the kind of technology that AppleTV offers now will just be included in a TV when you buy it, rather than needing separate appliances. They could strike a deal with set manufacturers to include Apple technology in their products, but that would probably be about as successful as the iTunes Motorola ROKR. They already have ample experience in producing displays and audio equipment, so they?d be better off just doing the whole thing themselves; and, being Apple, it?d also be a very desirable product.
I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.
How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.
That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day
The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.
If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.
So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.
Don't forget that you can watch movies on a computer or iPod, so the number of rentals tells us nothing about the number of aTVs.
Ummm, Okay... I'll iCal it..
So, I see that you registered here on AI today.... Who do you work for Sony or Microsoft?
Neither. I have owned many macs and used them probably 95% of time since 1992. I have purchased FCP since version 3 and also own Logic Studio and Aperture. I had another account here but haven't used it in about a year because I don't really care to talk about the iPhone 95% of the time. I had forgotten my username and password and the email account I used to register the account was deleted so I couldn't recover it.
If you want to say that everything that Apple does is perfect and ignore reality, then go for it.
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...53399&s=143441
If Apple wants to stay in the television business in the long term, I think they?ll eventually have to start making complete television sets rather than simply set-top boxes. Before long, the kind of technology that AppleTV offers now will just be included in a TV when you buy it, rather than needing separate appliances. They could strike a deal with set manufacturers to include Apple technology in their products, but that would probably be about as successful as the iTunes Motorola ROKR. They already have ample experience in producing displays and audio equipment, so they?d be better off just doing the whole thing themselves; and, being Apple, it?d also be a very desirable product.
Nah, don't agree...
Apple only makes a product if it feels it can better what the competition is doing.. The way they better their products is through software.. There is not much than can be done to improve upon the current high end sets by the likes of Sony, Samsung.. And there is not much likelihood of future sets including media centers built in..
Furthermore, Apple products generally expand upon their current ecosystem.. And again, there is not much more that televsion sets could do to add value to their current ecosystem..
Analysts estimated that there were approximately 1,000,000 Apple TV sales in its first year before the Apple TV 2.0 update was released. Analysts have estimated that sales had quadrupled after the 2.0 release.. Whether those numbers have sustained is unknown..
We don't know if that's true.
Also, Apple fans hate an analyst and his numbers if the numbers are low, love them if they're high.
We don't get the actual reports to see how they arrived at those numbers. The stories we see here on AI only really pull the highlights at best, the real reports often cost $250 and up.
If you remember the first iPhone launch, there as an analyst or maybe a few that were saying there would be 1 millon iPhones sold the first weekend, the actual number was a quarter that.
I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.
How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.
That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day
The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.
If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.
So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.
I think all that assumes AppleTV is required to do the renting. Only the HD movies require AppleTV. SD movies can be rented through the computer, iPod and iPhone.
If you want to say that everything that Apple does is perfect and ignore reality, then go for it.
I don't praise everything Apple does..
If you'd like proof, Feel free to read my comments posted just today regarding the current MobileMe 'Push" disaster...
I praise when deserved, I criticize just as easily when I feel it's deserved.
The flexibility with in the Apple ecosystem and the Apple TV/ iTunes integration is far superior to anything the competition is offering.. It's not ignoring reality, it's fact.
I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.
How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.
That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day
The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.
If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.
So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.
Unfortunately, there is no telling how many rentals are through AppleTV and how many are through the computer/iPod. Apple doesn't have problem releasing how many movies they sold or how many iPods they sold or how many iPhones they sold. It really would nice to know how many have been sold instead of conjuring up numbers to see if this will be a successful product.
1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV. Maybe its just me or not, but I see Apple TV targeted towards Family Audience and XBOX and PS3 towards younger generation and teenagers.
I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.
2. To fight back, Apple just have to make Apple TV compatible with Games and other Apps and make Apple Remote into a Wii like pointer with Accelerometer.
There never has been a rational argument for not including an optical drive at least as an option (and no, the fact that digital downloads are "the future" doesn't qualify as a rational reason). Think about it, you'll see it makes no sense.
There are many many more consumers that would buy something familiar like a new DVD player that happened to do some cool internet stuff, than there are consumers who will go out looking for a box just to do the cool Internet stuff. My Mum never figured out what a DVD player was until they had been common for a few years, many people are like that. Try even explaining what an Apple TV does to those folks. They'd love to buy the movies once they saw the thing working but the entry barrier to them adopting this kind of technology is extremely high.
This is kind of a blind spot for Apple in that they have little clue what the average middle-class non-techie USA-ian thinks like. You pretty much already have to be a cool Apple product user to even know what the hell Apple TV is right now. If it was sold instead as a game box that plays Blu-Ray discs, it would be much more saleable whether Apple believes that to be reasonable behaviour on the part of consumers or not.
It's also fairly clear, as someone has already noted above, that "eventually, eventually" Apple will pretty much have to get into making TV's to stay in this market. Perhaps they should just bite the bullet and buy Sony now (although it may be cheaper in a few years *wink*).
Like as not, the only reason for the languishing of the Apple TV is just prioritisation of Apple's tiny, itsy-bitsy, overworked staff and we will see a new Apple TV by Fall with an optical drive and a lot of other keen stuff.
We don't know if that's true.
Agreed, that's why I said "analysts estimated."
Not a chance.. As Apple has proven time and time again, It's not just features, it's the software. The iTunes integration alone offers something those other devices will never be able to offer.
Between xBox and PS3, about 30 million people now have the ability to rent or buy digital movies with a device they already own. I think most of those people would conclude that even if the Apple TV is a little more elegant to use, the $200 saved by just using the device they have would pay for a lot of movie rentals. This would be especially true for Netflix subscribers who own an xBox.
Regardless, I think the entire digital video rentals/purchases concept is still a novelty, due to the distribution limitations set by the studios, and will remain so if they don't become more open with content availability. Netflix's instant streaming feature is more or less limited to films no one wants to watch; I currently have 14 films in my Netflix queue, and the only one I can watch instantly is "Casablanca". Likewise, AppleTV's selection is largely made up of catalogue titles no one wants to see, while they continually pull popular titles after they've been available for a few months. For any of these digital rental/purchase services to work, they've got to build a library that has no bounds, similar to the iTunes music selection. Otherwise, people cannot and will not come to rely on their Apple TV/xBox/PS3 as the way to rent/buy movies.
Also, as HDTV prices continue to plummet and more people make the upgrade, people will want content that makes them appreciate their big fancy televisions. Streamed HD content that looks like an upconverted DVD ain't going to cut it.