So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?
Your opinions please!!!
You should wait for the fourth generation. That will be even better.
Seriously, what do you expect in something like this? Does it do what you want? If so, buy it. If not, don't.
EDGE might last 2x as long as 3G - BUT everything takes 3x longer to download ! so surely, overall, the better experience is to be had on the iPhone 3G ?
I'm willing to bet that in 3 hours of browsing a 3G owner will have actually managed to view more web pages than an original EDGE iPhone owner does in 5 or 6 ....
Why is this unsettling again? we all know that 3g uses more battery life than edge.. so it should be expected that the phone will not last as long as the original.
The unsettling fact is apple has yet to deliver on its promises of 5 hours browsing time.
btw, why are they comparing 3g and edge on battery life???
It's being compared to see what, if any, difference there may be. As we can see, it's quite a lot.
Hope everyone here remembers those who stated quite definitely, that there was NO difference in power usage between EDGE and 3G.
That was despite overwhelming evidence that there was.
You really don't care about how much power the cell tower uses because that does not figure into battery life but how far you are from the cell tower makes a BIG difference.
If your close to the cell tower your phone will reduce it's transmit power and the further you are from the cell tower the phone will increase it's transmit power. This is all under the control of the cell tower. You never see this, other than your phone getting warmer the further you are from the tower, but if you had a field strength meter you would see your phones signal increasing as you move away from the tower.
So if you were sitting under the tower you might get well over 5 hours maybe even 6 or 7. If you were near the fringe of the cell tower coverage area you might only get 3 hours or less.
Europe has a much higher density of cell towers than the US so they might see longer battery life on average that the US.
Why is there this assumption that the stronger the signal, the longer the battery life. One has nothing to do with the other.
We're talking about RF. The amplification is the same regardless. The only difference is in the reception. With a stronger signal, you get better reception, with less noise. There is no difference in RF amplification internally. That's fixed by the RF sensitivity.
I wonder if it would be possible to create technology that switched the phone between the two (or three, including wifi) on the fly depending on use? Like only switch to 3G when the user is browsing pages of a certain size?
It's possible. but to go from EDGE to HSDPA takes a few seconds to connect to the network. Having your internet switch to WiFi is virtually seamless though. I would like to have this feature and have it also choose whether I want 3G for Safari and YouTube and 2G everything else in the preferences.
Some examples of issues would arise (which is why i think Apple may not implement it) is if you were on a 2G call and wanted to use Safari to check a movie time. You couldn't do this without first ending the call, going into Safari to establish 3G and then making the call again so you can chat over the films.
Another issue is that if you did go into Safari the 2G single would drop and the 3G would start to initiate. This can take several seconds. If you are just checking a website for a couple seconds before getting back out then this would be a pain, but if you are like me and will spend 10-30 minutes in Safari it would be a nice feature.
The last time of issue would be the lack of disconnect going from an app running as 3G and then taking a call. If you are in Safari and a call comes in that you take the 3G connection would have to be maintained for that call.
While these issues may deter many I would like to have to the option and hope a savvy coders an make it happen.
PS: I'd also like 3G on/off switch in settings above Airplane Mode. Having to go through 3 screens to keeping toggling 3G is a pain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokessd
The tests talk about browsing; what is "browsing"? Streaming videos from you-tube for 5 hours is way different than reading slashdot for 5 hours. When reading a slashdot type of site, it loads in a couple seconds, and you may read for 10 minutes. So an hour on slashdot (assuming good commentary and articles) is really only say six page loads. an hour on youtube is a lot of bandwidth.
It's all relative. The tests for many sites disclose their basic method. Usually they keep access sites at a rate faster than one read them, but they are not playing video.
EDGE might last 2x as long as 3G - BUT everything takes 3x longer to download ! so surely, overall, the better experience is to be had on the iPhone 3G ?
I'm willing to bet that in 3 hours of browsing a 3G owner will have actually managed to view more web pages than an original EDGE iPhone owner does in 5 or 6 ....
There's a fallacy in that argument. You are not alone in making it.
Just as with the internet on our computers, the faster we go, the more we do. Our browsing time does not go down, we do more of it, and spend the same amount of time online.
According to iFixit, the battery (Apple part #616-0372) on iPhone 3G is not soldered as in the first gen iPhone. Could we expect third party or Apple's own heavy duty battery pack?
This page also listed the battery as 1150 mAh unlike the original 1440 mAh. Maybe someone more informed with battery information can help to dig up more info?
There's a fallacy in that argument. You are not alone in making it.
Just as with the internet on our computers, the faster we go, the more we do. Our browsing time does not go down, we do more of it, and spend the same amount of time online.
The same will be true of iPhone use.
Excellent point. Indeed, we know that it is already true of iPhone usage in general (compared to other 'smart'phones).
You should wait for the fourth generation. That will be even better.
Seriously, what do you expect in something like this? Does it do what you want? If so, buy it. If not, don't.
You are the only one here who can answer that.
It will never be perfect.
For some reason, people expect to be able to surf the net, listen to music and talk to their friends (plural used here because the iPhone has conference capability) all at the same time for ten hours straight.
Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.
According to iFixit, the battery (Apple part #616-0372) on iPhone 3G is not soldered as in the first gen iPhone. Could we expect third party or Apple's own heavy duty battery pack?
This page also listed the battery as 1150 mAh unlike the original 1440 mAh. Maybe someone more informed with battery information can help to dig up more info?
a heavy duty battery would be larger, as would be expected. Unless there's extra room in the case, which doesn't seem to be the situation, there would be no room for this special battery.
Of course, Apple doesn't always use the most powerful technology because of reliability (fires, remember), so third party battery suppliers have been selling batteries with higher current density for iPods for years. That's possible here as well.
It's not clear in any of the takedowns I've seen so far whether those screws are the only thing to do to open the case. If so, it's fairly easy (but be careful!). If not, then it's a different story.
For some reason, people expect to be able to surf the net, listen to music and talk to their friends (plural used here because the iPhone has conference capability) all at the same time for ten hours straight.
Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.
And some day they will have it.
But then, they will expect more, and so the cycle continues.
You have a point, but a faraday cage test is going to get the lower bound because the radio is going to transmit as powerful a signal it can in seeking towers, so it's not going to represent meaningful use either. In actual use, the signal is just high enough to be useful so as to not waste power.
The idea is to have the cell inside the Faraday cage so you can control transmit variables. Then you could get a fix on the efficiency of the device.
For some reason, people expect to be able to surf the net, listen to music and talk to their friends (plural used here because the iPhone has conference capability) all at the same time for ten hours straight.
Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.
You're right we should expect less and just buy what we're given. Down with progress!
So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?
Your opinions please!!!
Battery life is the only thing on your list that would depend on new hardware.
Cut and paste and video recording should just be a matter of a software upgrade.
It's possible. but to go from EDGE to HSDPA takes a few seconds to connect to the network. Having your internet switch to WiFi is virtually seamless though. I would like to have this feature and have it also choose whether I want 3G for Safari and YouTube and 2G everything else in the preferences.
Some examples of issues would arise (which is why i think Apple may not implement it) is if you were on a 2G call and wanted to use Safari to check a movie time. You couldn't do this without first ending the call, going into Safari to establish 3G and then making the call again so you can chat over the films.
Another issue is that if you did go into Safari the 2G single would drop and the 3G would start to initiate. This can take several seconds. If you are just checking a website for a couple seconds before getting back out then this would be a pain, but if you are like me and will spend 10-30 minutes in Safari it would be a nice feature.
The last time of issue would be the lack of disconnect going from an app running as 3G and then taking a call. If you are in Safari and a call comes in that you take the 3G connection would have to be maintained for that call.
While these issues may deter many I would like to have to the option and hope a savvy coders an make it happen.
PS: I'd also like 3G on/off switch in settings above Airplane Mode. Having to go through 3 screens to keeping toggling 3G is a pain.
It's all relative. The tests for many sites disclose their basic method. Usually they keep access sites at a rate faster than one read them, but they are not playing video.
This idea isn't practical. You'd need fully duplicate the RF paths in the device (more size and expense and battery usage) or put up with extended delays. For instance, what happens when there is no 3G network? The phone would switch to 3G for several seconds, try to connect to the 3G network for several seconds, then spend more time connecting back to 2G. Would anyone be willing to put up with delays of 15+ seconds every now and ten (and being uncontactable).
Having two RF paths might not work either since the phone systems might have a problem the phone appearing twice on the network on two different bands. It would probably need a change in the GSM standard, which means no backward compatibility which means you're back to square one.
This idea isn't practical. You'd need fully duplicate the RF paths in the device (more size and expense and battery usage) or put up with extended delays. For instance, what happens when there is no 3G network? The phone would switch to 3G for several seconds, try to connect to the 3G network for several seconds, then spend more time connecting back to 2G. Would anyone be willing to put up with delays of 15+ seconds every now and ten (and being uncontactable).
I'd put up with that because of the area I'm in, the type of user I am, and the fact that I'm doing it all now but manually through the settings, so an auto-option would be a blessing for me. As stated, I doubt Apple would do this, but I hope a 3rd-party coder for jailbroken iPhone is the same kind of user I am.
Quote:
Having two RF paths might not work either since the phone systems might have a problem the phone appearing twice on the network on two different bands. It would probably need a change in the GSM standard, which means no backward compatibility which means you're back to square one.
I'd much rather use GSM for all calls and UMTS for data but I'm also under the assumption this is not possible with the way the mobile network is designed.
So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?
Comments
So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?
Your opinions please!!!
You should wait for the fourth generation. That will be even better.
Seriously, what do you expect in something like this? Does it do what you want? If so, buy it. If not, don't.
You are the only one here who can answer that.
It will never be perfect.
I'm willing to bet that in 3 hours of browsing a 3G owner will have actually managed to view more web pages than an original EDGE iPhone owner does in 5 or 6 ....
Why is this unsettling again? we all know that 3g uses more battery life than edge.. so it should be expected that the phone will not last as long as the original.
The unsettling fact is apple has yet to deliver on its promises of 5 hours browsing time.
btw, why are they comparing 3g and edge on battery life???
It's being compared to see what, if any, difference there may be. As we can see, it's quite a lot.
Hope everyone here remembers those who stated quite definitely, that there was NO difference in power usage between EDGE and 3G.
That was despite overwhelming evidence that there was.
You really don't care about how much power the cell tower uses because that does not figure into battery life but how far you are from the cell tower makes a BIG difference.
If your close to the cell tower your phone will reduce it's transmit power and the further you are from the cell tower the phone will increase it's transmit power. This is all under the control of the cell tower. You never see this, other than your phone getting warmer the further you are from the tower, but if you had a field strength meter you would see your phones signal increasing as you move away from the tower.
So if you were sitting under the tower you might get well over 5 hours maybe even 6 or 7. If you were near the fringe of the cell tower coverage area you might only get 3 hours or less.
Europe has a much higher density of cell towers than the US so they might see longer battery life on average that the US.
Why is there this assumption that the stronger the signal, the longer the battery life. One has nothing to do with the other.
We're talking about RF. The amplification is the same regardless. The only difference is in the reception. With a stronger signal, you get better reception, with less noise. There is no difference in RF amplification internally. That's fixed by the RF sensitivity.
I wonder if it would be possible to create technology that switched the phone between the two (or three, including wifi) on the fly depending on use? Like only switch to 3G when the user is browsing pages of a certain size?
It's possible. but to go from EDGE to HSDPA takes a few seconds to connect to the network. Having your internet switch to WiFi is virtually seamless though. I would like to have this feature and have it also choose whether I want 3G for Safari and YouTube and 2G everything else in the preferences.
Some examples of issues would arise (which is why i think Apple may not implement it) is if you were on a 2G call and wanted to use Safari to check a movie time. You couldn't do this without first ending the call, going into Safari to establish 3G and then making the call again so you can chat over the films.
Another issue is that if you did go into Safari the 2G single would drop and the 3G would start to initiate. This can take several seconds. If you are just checking a website for a couple seconds before getting back out then this would be a pain, but if you are like me and will spend 10-30 minutes in Safari it would be a nice feature.
The last time of issue would be the lack of disconnect going from an app running as 3G and then taking a call. If you are in Safari and a call comes in that you take the 3G connection would have to be maintained for that call.
While these issues may deter many I would like to have to the option and hope a savvy coders an make it happen.
PS: I'd also like 3G on/off switch in settings above Airplane Mode. Having to go through 3 screens to keeping toggling 3G is a pain.
The tests talk about browsing; what is "browsing"? Streaming videos from you-tube for 5 hours is way different than reading slashdot for 5 hours. When reading a slashdot type of site, it loads in a couple seconds, and you may read for 10 minutes. So an hour on slashdot (assuming good commentary and articles) is really only say six page loads. an hour on youtube is a lot of bandwidth.
It's all relative. The tests for many sites disclose their basic method. Usually they keep access sites at a rate faster than one read them, but they are not playing video.
EDGE might last 2x as long as 3G - BUT everything takes 3x longer to download ! so surely, overall, the better experience is to be had on the iPhone 3G ?
I'm willing to bet that in 3 hours of browsing a 3G owner will have actually managed to view more web pages than an original EDGE iPhone owner does in 5 or 6 ....
There's a fallacy in that argument. You are not alone in making it.
Just as with the internet on our computers, the faster we go, the more we do. Our browsing time does not go down, we do more of it, and spend the same amount of time online.
The same will be true of iPhone use.
This page also listed the battery as 1150 mAh unlike the original 1440 mAh. Maybe someone more informed with battery information can help to dig up more info?
There's a fallacy in that argument. You are not alone in making it.
Just as with the internet on our computers, the faster we go, the more we do. Our browsing time does not go down, we do more of it, and spend the same amount of time online.
The same will be true of iPhone use.
Excellent point. Indeed, we know that it is already true of iPhone usage in general (compared to other 'smart'phones).
You should wait for the fourth generation. That will be even better.
Seriously, what do you expect in something like this? Does it do what you want? If so, buy it. If not, don't.
You are the only one here who can answer that.
It will never be perfect.
For some reason, people expect to be able to surf the net, listen to music and talk to their friends (plural used here because the iPhone has conference capability) all at the same time for ten hours straight.
Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.
According to iFixit, the battery (Apple part #616-0372) on iPhone 3G is not soldered as in the first gen iPhone. Could we expect third party or Apple's own heavy duty battery pack?
This page also listed the battery as 1150 mAh unlike the original 1440 mAh. Maybe someone more informed with battery information can help to dig up more info?
a heavy duty battery would be larger, as would be expected. Unless there's extra room in the case, which doesn't seem to be the situation, there would be no room for this special battery.
Of course, Apple doesn't always use the most powerful technology because of reliability (fires, remember), so third party battery suppliers have been selling batteries with higher current density for iPods for years. That's possible here as well.
It's not clear in any of the takedowns I've seen so far whether those screws are the only thing to do to open the case. If so, it's fairly easy (but be careful!). If not, then it's a different story.
For some reason, people expect to be able to surf the net, listen to music and talk to their friends (plural used here because the iPhone has conference capability) all at the same time for ten hours straight.
Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.
And some day they will have it.
But then, they will expect more, and so the cycle continues.
You have a point, but a faraday cage test is going to get the lower bound because the radio is going to transmit as powerful a signal it can in seeking towers, so it's not going to represent meaningful use either. In actual use, the signal is just high enough to be useful so as to not waste power.
The idea is to have the cell inside the Faraday cage so you can control transmit variables. Then you could get a fix on the efficiency of the device.
For some reason, people expect to be able to surf the net, listen to music and talk to their friends (plural used here because the iPhone has conference capability) all at the same time for ten hours straight.
Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.
You're right we should expect less and just buy what we're given. Down with progress!
So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?
Your opinions please!!!
Battery life is the only thing on your list that would depend on new hardware.
Cut and paste and video recording should just be a matter of a software upgrade.
It's possible. but to go from EDGE to HSDPA takes a few seconds to connect to the network. Having your internet switch to WiFi is virtually seamless though. I would like to have this feature and have it also choose whether I want 3G for Safari and YouTube and 2G everything else in the preferences.
Some examples of issues would arise (which is why i think Apple may not implement it) is if you were on a 2G call and wanted to use Safari to check a movie time. You couldn't do this without first ending the call, going into Safari to establish 3G and then making the call again so you can chat over the films.
Another issue is that if you did go into Safari the 2G single would drop and the 3G would start to initiate. This can take several seconds. If you are just checking a website for a couple seconds before getting back out then this would be a pain, but if you are like me and will spend 10-30 minutes in Safari it would be a nice feature.
The last time of issue would be the lack of disconnect going from an app running as 3G and then taking a call. If you are in Safari and a call comes in that you take the 3G connection would have to be maintained for that call.
While these issues may deter many I would like to have to the option and hope a savvy coders an make it happen.
PS: I'd also like 3G on/off switch in settings above Airplane Mode. Having to go through 3 screens to keeping toggling 3G is a pain.
It's all relative. The tests for many sites disclose their basic method. Usually they keep access sites at a rate faster than one read them, but they are not playing video.
This idea isn't practical. You'd need fully duplicate the RF paths in the device (more size and expense and battery usage) or put up with extended delays. For instance, what happens when there is no 3G network? The phone would switch to 3G for several seconds, try to connect to the 3G network for several seconds, then spend more time connecting back to 2G. Would anyone be willing to put up with delays of 15+ seconds every now and ten (and being uncontactable).
Having two RF paths might not work either since the phone systems might have a problem the phone appearing twice on the network on two different bands. It would probably need a change in the GSM standard, which means no backward compatibility which means you're back to square one.
This idea isn't practical. You'd need fully duplicate the RF paths in the device (more size and expense and battery usage) or put up with extended delays. For instance, what happens when there is no 3G network? The phone would switch to 3G for several seconds, try to connect to the 3G network for several seconds, then spend more time connecting back to 2G. Would anyone be willing to put up with delays of 15+ seconds every now and ten (and being uncontactable).
I'd put up with that because of the area I'm in, the type of user I am, and the fact that I'm doing it all now but manually through the settings, so an auto-option would be a blessing for me. As stated, I doubt Apple would do this, but I hope a 3rd-party coder for jailbroken iPhone is the same kind of user I am.
Having two RF paths might not work either since the phone systems might have a problem the phone appearing twice on the network on two different bands. It would probably need a change in the GSM standard, which means no backward compatibility which means you're back to square one.
I'd much rather use GSM for all calls and UMTS for data but I'm also under the assumption this is not possible with the way the mobile network is designed.
I almost was never without coverage anywhere that I went and rarely did I run out of battery power.
This phone is a HUGE disappointment after waiting all these months.
I find the edge network herein NYC to be almost non existent and that the ATT services are abysmal compared to Verizon.
I almost was never without coverage anywhere that I went and rarely did I run out of battery power.
This phone is a HUGE disappointment after waiting all these months.
I assume you mean 3G/UMTS/HSDPA coverage, not EDGE. Either way, it sounds like coverage in your area is not satisfactory, not the iPhone.
So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?
Your opinions please!!!
WAIT!
1.)It will have a better camera.
2.) It should have a swappable battery.
3.)It will be half the price.
Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.
NO- just a replaceable battery. NOt having one is regressive not progressive.