iPhone will of course start to take some market share from BB, this is just natural.
On a lesser note, the iPhone will also help spurs sales of other smartphones as it had made the previous business/geek device très chic and phone developers are now working harder on their firmware to make them easier to use, and better PMPs and MIDs. It's good for everybody!
About a year ago, RIM cut a deal with our corporate types for push email, etc. through the Blackberry. At the time I was ridiculed for not making the jump.
Two months ago our corporate IT types announced that the push email and contact mgmt through the Blackberry was "being delayed indefinitely"
Friday evening I picked up my iPhone. Within two hours time later (most of that making sure my sync, etc was properly set up) I was receiving emails from our corporate system.
If I were RIM execs, I would be cashing in my stock options as quickly as the regulators would let me.
The truth of the matter is that there will be far, far, far more BB's sold than iPhones over the coming years. The percentage of business's switching to BB in the next few years is going to be tiny in comparison.
I do this for a living, believe me iphone has a very long way to go before it can be considered a BlackBerry killer.
Of course you're right about this. They both are carving out niches for their products and both can continue to grow. iPhone does not appeal to me yet, but once the at&t tentacle has been severed, I'll be on board.
I literally had to stop and look at each icon on the Thunder's home screen to figure out what they were...talk about some terrible graphic designs...the rest of the screen looks good, but a little more TLC to the icons would be nice.
mail, book, grid, travel the world, some crazy formula, compass?
compass..as in safari/internet? wait no it must be the world icon, like world wide web!
Yea some themes are hard to figure out. But thats whats good, you can have hundreds of different themes on your BB and change them anytime you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio
The quarter has expired for RIM's one trick pony ride.
If my company forced me to get a BB, I'd find a new job. I prefer to work with people with a passion for technology, not a passion for job security. Tech companies with too many of the latter usually don't last long.
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm, at least I hope it was. RIM has had a lock for years, and will for years to come. Mac OS will overtake windows, before the iphone overtakes Blackberries.
iPhone 3G is a fantastic device for consumers and will completely stifle RIMM's consumer growth potential. However, in the enterprise, Apple did not licence the full ActiveSync capability from Microsoft and their Exchange functionality is more hype than reality in matching BlackBerry right now. As a person who has commented favorably on iPhone, I say this without much optimism that Apple will fix it any time soon.
I'm not a techie, but this comprehensive article covers in great detail why Apple is still 2 or 3 years behind RIMM in enterprise communication. It's sad that it seems to be by choice.
A list of reproducible bugs and user experience shortcomings of the iPhone MS Exchange is also available in the wiki mentioned in the article.
Apple surely knows that CIOs don't buy stuff the way consumers do and enterprise IT will rarely experiment on something that could potentially cost them tons of money in downtime and support, not to mention aggravation. Unfortunately, by picking and choosing capabilities and leaving out crucial ones, Apple has put iPhone 2.0 software squarely in this unfortunate category. iPhone 3G will be allowed in some enterprise Exchange systems, but only on a self-support basis. There wont be many mass rollouts beyond user-driven enthusiasm. In a word, enterprise support for iPhone's current Exchange offering will be at best, perfunctory. I'm not saying this will be permanent, just that Apple doesn't yet have the goods. If Apple moves in the right direction, the situation will improve but I don't think they have the capacity to handle both consumer and enterprise full-feature richness right now.
The AppStore's usability, on the other hand, is a goodie unlike anything most mobile developers have seen before. It's actually worth writing a free application and releasing it, just to test the user feedback you receive from people all over the world. With the suggestions you get, you can refine your application to greatness and release a feature-filled app for $0.99 that hits , say, 300,000 downloads. A hit like that gets you $210,000 before expenses and taxes in three months. Not bad for a smart dude coding on the side. Graphics artists who know how to create great-looking Apple UIs are already in short supply. The mediocre are plentiful. Apple is on the cusp of turning mobile software development into a truly global cottage industry.
Google scored an own-goal by getting caught-out releasing Android SDK updates secretly only to developers who won its contest last year. A number of miffed people who have been frustrated about Android's inertia can see the potential of iPhone 2.0 and will be trying their luck with quality apps on Apple's platform. Maybe Google did it to maintain secrecy, but the effect will be to make some developers choose the devil they know with millions of eager beta testers and an iconic device over the devil with a promise of trust broken and no path for them to cash before Christmas. Developers must be poring through user reviews like crazy, user feedback on usability and features is something only large companies could get quickly in the way AppStore developers have now, there must be more than 10,000 app reviews by now. Useful and "constructive" reviewers will begin to dominate as the market realizes that nobody (not even the often unfairly maligned Microsoft) wants to write bad software. Applications will become better as "the market" decides what works and suggests features that would make it even better. Some of the suggestions and criticisms we're seeing are fantastic. Even among those who don't like Apple and wont buy iPhones, there is growing recognition only 5 days after launch that this platform-based iterative capability is something we've never seen before on a global level. It can only be good for everyone.
iPhone 3G is a fantastic device for consumers and will completely stifle RIMM's consumer growth potential. However, in the enterprise, Apple did not licence the full ActiveSync capability from Microsoft and their Exchange functionality is more hype than reality in matching BlackBerry right now. As a person who has commented favorably on iPhone, I say this without much optimism that Apple will fix it any time soon.
I'm not a techie, but this comprehensive article covers in great detail why Apple is still 2 or 3 years behind RIMM in enterprise communication. It's sad that it seems to be by choice.
Read the article. The limitations are very minor. I quote:
create a meeting request and invite other people to attend. Without this, the wireless calendar functionality is largely useless unless you're the Unabomber or some other kind of Luddite hermit who never works with others. (Oddly, you can view the attendee status of meetings you create on the desktop!)
I schedule meetings from my desk. I use the calender to keep track where I am going
create a recurring meeting unless it is repeated daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, or yearly. That's right-- no more "first Thursday of every month" or "every Monday, Wednesday, Friday" appointments. This is disgraceful. Even Palm managed to eventually get this right, for crying out loud.
Yes this is a real killer.
create a meeting in a time zone other than the one you are currently in. I guess you might be able to do this by changing the device time zone, but that doesn't seem like a very good idea to me, and I haven't tried it. I have tried (in vain) explaining why I created a meeting request for 4:30am Pacific time because I forgot my device was still on Eastern time, though.
I sure this happens ALL the time
view suggested meeting times or free/busy times, either for your own calendar or for others'. That makes sense, given that you can't invite other people, but it's still super lame.
Again I have my laptop or desk top. Shame you don't
move to an arbitrary date, in either the future or the past. Say you want to check your schedule for 331 days from now so you can grab some frequent-flyer tickets to Maui. Hit the "month" button, then flick until you get to June 2009. Let's hope you don't need to look at dates in the far future or you'll end up with a pulled tendon or something.
Another deal breaker
Been using my iPhone with out exchange server since Monday and doing great. Don't listen to the FUD.
About a year ago, RIM cut a deal with our corporate types for push email, etc. through the Blackberry. At the time I was ridiculed for not making the jump.
Two months ago our corporate IT types announced that the push email and contact mgmt through the Blackberry was "being delayed indefinitely"
Friday evening I picked up my iPhone. Within two hours time later (most of that making sure my sync, etc was properly set up) I was receiving emails from our corporate system.
If I were RIM execs, I would be cashing in my stock options as quickly as the regulators would let me.
I think what everyone is forgetting is competition is a great thing for all consumers.
The iPhone is clearly dominant in "user friendly". It still lacks much for corporate users.
I HOPE the Blackberry Bold & the Instict rule. This will only force Apple to be better. Let's hpoe Steve's arrogance doesn't get in the way for all of us.
I want my next phone to have the best of both. I'll trade my iPhone in as soon as their is competition. I do t care if it's Apple or Blueberry.
I think what everyone is forgetting is competition is a great thing for all consumers.
The iPhone is clearly dominant in "user friendly". It still lacks much for corporate users.
I HOPE the Blackberry Bold & the Instict rule. This will only force Apple to be better. Let's hpoe Steve's arrogance doesn't get in the way for all of us.
I want my next phone to have the best of both. I'll trade my iPhone in as soon as their is competition. I do t care if it's Apple or Blueberry.
excuse the typo I couldn't scroll from my iPhone on this site
Speaking as someone who does both Java development and who has experimented with Apple's iPhone SDK (and paid the $99 and put some test apps on my own Touch), I can say that "full" Java is still far ahead of Apple's SDK in IDE quality, code maintainability, enterprise functionality, "ecosystem" of existing resources, ease of debugging, sandboxing, security, and depth of language capabilities. Apple has, by far, the best UI tool with Interface Builder, animation, and multi-touch built in at a fundamental level.
But this article seems to imply that Java is a generation behind Apple, while I see it as completely opposite. Apple put a lot of effort into (re-)inventing a sandboxing solution, a signing solution, etc. These are all things Java has had for a decade. Lots of stuff still feels pretty klunky in Apple's tools that is a breeze in any halfway decent Java development environment.
The real thing holding Java back, IMHO, is that JavaME is still based on Java 1.4, and that most mobile platforms haven't taken the jump to JavaSE 1.6.
Personally, I wish Steve Jobs didn't hate Java so much and Apple had had an SDK 6 months earlier that had more functionality and actually added to the state of the art for the whole industry, instead of the old "not invented here" syndrome and trying to re-invent the wheel.
iPhone's problems are more than anything related to AT&T. overall performance of blackberries on Verizon network is just unmatched. Voice quality is so much better on BB (somewhat because of verizon network).
plus, they are aimed at different markets. One is not better than the other. iPhone is targeted more for everyday consumer use with heavy emphasis on media features, whereas BB is aimed more for businessmen with heavy emphasis on emails and security.
I absolutely love all Apple products but this is what I hate about mac boards. These Apple fanboys just throw all logics and objectiveness out of the window whenever an Apple product is compared with rival products.
There's no RATIONAL reason why the iPhone can't upset BB dominance in the enterprise.
user friendly != business productive
Big difference between media usability and actually conducting business in a mobile environment. iPhone isn't there yet. And if you think companies are going to drop Verizon for AT&T you are beyond mistaken.
I think what everyone is forgetting is competition is a great thing for all consumers.
The iPhone is clearly dominant in "user friendly". It still lacks much for corporate users.
I HOPE the Blackberry Bold & the Instict rule. This will only force Apple to be better. Let's hpoe Steve's arrogance doesn't get in the way for all of us.
I want my next phone to have the best of both. I'll trade my iPhone in as soon as their is competition. I do t care if it's Apple or Blueberry.
It's not just you so don't take this personally, but I get so sick of reading the "Steve's arrogance" thing. Can we let up on the parroting of this or leave it to the jealous types? SJ is without equal in four industries in recent history; Computers, Software, Phones and Animation (the now sold off Pixar) so I think he is remarkably humble considering. If something were "getting in the way" of his ability to be successful I bet a few other industry leaders wished that had some of it!
Big difference between media usability and actually conducting business in a mobile environment. iPhone isn't there yet. And if you think companies are going to drop Verizon for AT&T you are beyond mistaken.
Never said the iPhone was there. But the potential is clearly there. The iPhone has only been enterprise ready for a couple of months (well, realistically since July 11th).
Are you trying to say to me say giving a user - regardless if consumer or business user - an easier way to complete a task makes them less productive!?!? That simply defies logic and common sense.
Furthermore, what does the choice of carrier have to do with the device itself or how productive the end user would be with said device?
BTW, If I'm not mistaken, AT&T carries both the Blackberry AND the iPhone, whereas Verizon only carries the Blackberry (other smartphone models are not relevant to this particular discussion), so one could argue that AT&T already has the upper hand on Verizon in this regard as far as business customers are concerned.
It's not just you so don't take this personally, but I get so sick of reading the "Steve's arrogance" thing. Can we let up on the parroting of this or leave it to the jealous types? SJ is without equal in four industries in recent history; Computers, Software, Phones and Animation (the now sold off Pixar) so I think he is remarkably humble considering. If something were "getting in the way" of his ability to be successful I bet a few other industry leaders wished that had some of it!
Thank you for writing this! Seriously; don't hate the player, hate the game.
Comments
iPhone will of course start to take some market share from BB, this is just natural.
On a lesser note, the iPhone will also help spurs sales of other smartphones as it had made the previous business/geek device très chic and phone developers are now working harder on their firmware to make them easier to use, and better PMPs and MIDs. It's good for everybody!
I've never understood the objection, it has always sounded like silliness to me.
Me neither. But coming to this forum has shown me that some people are just fervent about fonts.
About a year ago, RIM cut a deal with our corporate types for push email, etc. through the Blackberry. At the time I was ridiculed for not making the jump.
Two months ago our corporate IT types announced that the push email and contact mgmt through the Blackberry was "being delayed indefinitely"
Friday evening I picked up my iPhone. Within two hours time later (most of that making sure my sync, etc was properly set up) I was receiving emails from our corporate system.
If I were RIM execs, I would be cashing in my stock options as quickly as the regulators would let me.
The truth of the matter is that there will be far, far, far more BB's sold than iPhones over the coming years. The percentage of business's switching to BB in the next few years is going to be tiny in comparison.
I do this for a living, believe me iphone has a very long way to go before it can be considered a BlackBerry killer.
Of course you're right about this. They both are carving out niches for their products and both can continue to grow. iPhone does not appeal to me yet, but once the at&t tentacle has been severed, I'll be on board.
I literally had to stop and look at each icon on the Thunder's home screen to figure out what they were...talk about some terrible graphic designs...the rest of the screen looks good, but a little more TLC to the icons would be nice.
mail, book, grid, travel the world, some crazy formula, compass?
compass..as in safari/internet? wait no it must be the world icon, like world wide web!
Yea some themes are hard to figure out. But thats whats good, you can have hundreds of different themes on your BB and change them anytime you want.
The quarter has expired for RIM's one trick pony ride.
If my company forced me to get a BB, I'd find a new job. I prefer to work with people with a passion for technology, not a passion for job security. Tech companies with too many of the latter usually don't last long.
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm, at least I hope it was. RIM has had a lock for years, and will for years to come. Mac OS will overtake windows, before the iphone overtakes Blackberries.
I'm not a techie, but this comprehensive article covers in great detail why Apple is still 2 or 3 years behind RIMM in enterprise communication. It's sad that it seems to be by choice.
http://www.robichaux.net/blog/2008/0...ail-device.php
A list of reproducible bugs and user experience shortcomings of the iPhone MS Exchange is also available in the wiki mentioned in the article.
Apple surely knows that CIOs don't buy stuff the way consumers do and enterprise IT will rarely experiment on something that could potentially cost them tons of money in downtime and support, not to mention aggravation. Unfortunately, by picking and choosing capabilities and leaving out crucial ones, Apple has put iPhone 2.0 software squarely in this unfortunate category. iPhone 3G will be allowed in some enterprise Exchange systems, but only on a self-support basis. There wont be many mass rollouts beyond user-driven enthusiasm. In a word, enterprise support for iPhone's current Exchange offering will be at best, perfunctory. I'm not saying this will be permanent, just that Apple doesn't yet have the goods. If Apple moves in the right direction, the situation will improve but I don't think they have the capacity to handle both consumer and enterprise full-feature richness right now.
The AppStore's usability, on the other hand, is a goodie unlike anything most mobile developers have seen before. It's actually worth writing a free application and releasing it, just to test the user feedback you receive from people all over the world. With the suggestions you get, you can refine your application to greatness and release a feature-filled app for $0.99 that hits , say, 300,000 downloads. A hit like that gets you $210,000 before expenses and taxes in three months. Not bad for a smart dude coding on the side. Graphics artists who know how to create great-looking Apple UIs are already in short supply. The mediocre are plentiful. Apple is on the cusp of turning mobile software development into a truly global cottage industry.
Google scored an own-goal by getting caught-out releasing Android SDK updates secretly only to developers who won its contest last year. A number of miffed people who have been frustrated about Android's inertia can see the potential of iPhone 2.0 and will be trying their luck with quality apps on Apple's platform. Maybe Google did it to maintain secrecy, but the effect will be to make some developers choose the devil they know with millions of eager beta testers and an iconic device over the devil with a promise of trust broken and no path for them to cash before Christmas. Developers must be poring through user reviews like crazy, user feedback on usability and features is something only large companies could get quickly in the way AppStore developers have now, there must be more than 10,000 app reviews by now. Useful and "constructive" reviewers will begin to dominate as the market realizes that nobody (not even the often unfairly maligned Microsoft) wants to write bad software. Applications will become better as "the market" decides what works and suggests features that would make it even better. Some of the suggestions and criticisms we're seeing are fantastic. Even among those who don't like Apple and wont buy iPhones, there is growing recognition only 5 days after launch that this platform-based iterative capability is something we've never seen before on a global level. It can only be good for everyone.
iPhone 3G is a fantastic device for consumers and will completely stifle RIMM's consumer growth potential. However, in the enterprise, Apple did not licence the full ActiveSync capability from Microsoft and their Exchange functionality is more hype than reality in matching BlackBerry right now. As a person who has commented favorably on iPhone, I say this without much optimism that Apple will fix it any time soon.
I'm not a techie, but this comprehensive article covers in great detail why Apple is still 2 or 3 years behind RIMM in enterprise communication. It's sad that it seems to be by choice.
http://www.robichaux.net/blog/2008/0...ail-device.php
snip
Read the article. The limitations are very minor. I quote:
create a meeting request and invite other people to attend. Without this, the wireless calendar functionality is largely useless unless you're the Unabomber or some other kind of Luddite hermit who never works with others. (Oddly, you can view the attendee status of meetings you create on the desktop!)
I schedule meetings from my desk. I use the calender to keep track where I am going
create a recurring meeting unless it is repeated daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, or yearly. That's right-- no more "first Thursday of every month" or "every Monday, Wednesday, Friday" appointments. This is disgraceful. Even Palm managed to eventually get this right, for crying out loud.
Yes this is a real killer.
create a meeting in a time zone other than the one you are currently in. I guess you might be able to do this by changing the device time zone, but that doesn't seem like a very good idea to me, and I haven't tried it. I have tried (in vain) explaining why I created a meeting request for 4:30am Pacific time because I forgot my device was still on Eastern time, though.
I sure this happens ALL the time
view suggested meeting times or free/busy times, either for your own calendar or for others'. That makes sense, given that you can't invite other people, but it's still super lame.
Again I have my laptop or desk top. Shame you don't
move to an arbitrary date, in either the future or the past. Say you want to check your schedule for 331 days from now so you can grab some frequent-flyer tickets to Maui. Hit the "month" button, then flick until you get to June 2009. Let's hope you don't need to look at dates in the far future or you'll end up with a pulled tendon or something.
Another deal breaker
Been using my iPhone with out exchange server since Monday and doing great. Don't listen to the FUD.
Yeah, I'm lovin' it.
About a year ago, RIM cut a deal with our corporate types for push email, etc. through the Blackberry. At the time I was ridiculed for not making the jump.
Two months ago our corporate IT types announced that the push email and contact mgmt through the Blackberry was "being delayed indefinitely"
Friday evening I picked up my iPhone. Within two hours time later (most of that making sure my sync, etc was properly set up) I was receiving emails from our corporate system.
If I were RIM execs, I would be cashing in my stock options as quickly as the regulators would let me.
You just about summarized it.
AAPL vs RIMM smackdown!
C'mon Blackberry, give us something other than an also-ran copycat concept to the iPhone.
Who are you? Microsoft?
They had a nice run while it lasted.
I think what everyone is forgetting is competition is a great thing for all consumers.
The iPhone is clearly dominant in "user friendly". It still lacks much for corporate users.
I HOPE the Blackberry Bold & the Instict rule. This will only force Apple to be better. Let's hpoe Steve's arrogance doesn't get in the way for all of us.
I want my next phone to have the best of both. I'll trade my iPhone in as soon as their is competition. I do t care if it's Apple or Blueberry.
I think what everyone is forgetting is competition is a great thing for all consumers.
The iPhone is clearly dominant in "user friendly". It still lacks much for corporate users.
I HOPE the Blackberry Bold & the Instict rule. This will only force Apple to be better. Let's hpoe Steve's arrogance doesn't get in the way for all of us.
I want my next phone to have the best of both. I'll trade my iPhone in as soon as their is competition. I do t care if it's Apple or Blueberry.
excuse the typo I couldn't scroll from my iPhone on this site
excuse the typo I couldn't scroll from my iPhone on this site
Welcome back! Competition is good and I'm glad someone finally put a fire into the cellphone market.
PS: You can edit your posts.
But this article seems to imply that Java is a generation behind Apple, while I see it as completely opposite. Apple put a lot of effort into (re-)inventing a sandboxing solution, a signing solution, etc. These are all things Java has had for a decade. Lots of stuff still feels pretty klunky in Apple's tools that is a breeze in any halfway decent Java development environment.
The real thing holding Java back, IMHO, is that JavaME is still based on Java 1.4, and that most mobile platforms haven't taken the jump to JavaSE 1.6.
Personally, I wish Steve Jobs didn't hate Java so much and Apple had had an SDK 6 months earlier that had more functionality and actually added to the state of the art for the whole industry, instead of the old "not invented here" syndrome and trying to re-invent the wheel.
I think what everyone is forgetting is competition is a great thing for all consumers.
The iPhone is clearly dominant in "user friendly". It still lacks much for corporate users.
Here's a thought:
user friendly = more productive
There's no RATIONAL reason why the iPhone can't upset BB dominance in the enterprise.
plus, they are aimed at different markets. One is not better than the other. iPhone is targeted more for everyday consumer use with heavy emphasis on media features, whereas BB is aimed more for businessmen with heavy emphasis on emails and security.
I absolutely love all Apple products but this is what I hate about mac boards. These Apple fanboys just throw all logics and objectiveness out of the window whenever an Apple product is compared with rival products.
Here's a thought:
user friendly = more productive
There's no RATIONAL reason why the iPhone can't upset BB dominance in the enterprise.
user friendly != business productive
Big difference between media usability and actually conducting business in a mobile environment. iPhone isn't there yet. And if you think companies are going to drop Verizon for AT&T you are beyond mistaken.
I think what everyone is forgetting is competition is a great thing for all consumers.
The iPhone is clearly dominant in "user friendly". It still lacks much for corporate users.
I HOPE the Blackberry Bold & the Instict rule. This will only force Apple to be better. Let's hpoe Steve's arrogance doesn't get in the way for all of us.
I want my next phone to have the best of both. I'll trade my iPhone in as soon as their is competition. I do t care if it's Apple or Blueberry.
It's not just you so don't take this personally, but I get so sick of reading the "Steve's arrogance" thing. Can we let up on the parroting of this or leave it to the jealous types? SJ is without equal in four industries in recent history; Computers, Software, Phones and Animation (the now sold off Pixar) so I think he is remarkably humble considering. If something were "getting in the way" of his ability to be successful I bet a few other industry leaders wished that had some of it!
user friendly != business productive
Big difference between media usability and actually conducting business in a mobile environment. iPhone isn't there yet. And if you think companies are going to drop Verizon for AT&T you are beyond mistaken.
Never said the iPhone was there. But the potential is clearly there. The iPhone has only been enterprise ready for a couple of months (well, realistically since July 11th).
Are you trying to say to me say giving a user - regardless if consumer or business user - an easier way to complete a task makes them less productive!?!? That simply defies logic and common sense.
Furthermore, what does the choice of carrier have to do with the device itself or how productive the end user would be with said device?
BTW, If I'm not mistaken, AT&T carries both the Blackberry AND the iPhone, whereas Verizon only carries the Blackberry (other smartphone models are not relevant to this particular discussion), so one could argue that AT&T already has the upper hand on Verizon in this regard as far as business customers are concerned.
It's not just you so don't take this personally, but I get so sick of reading the "Steve's arrogance" thing. Can we let up on the parroting of this or leave it to the jealous types? SJ is without equal in four industries in recent history; Computers, Software, Phones and Animation (the now sold off Pixar) so I think he is remarkably humble considering. If something were "getting in the way" of his ability to be successful I bet a few other industry leaders wished that had some of it!
Thank you for writing this!