PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 now fuller rivals to Apple TV

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  • Reply 101 of 126
    4metta4metta Posts: 365member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lamewing View Post


    Both systems, especially the PS3, can act a full-fledged enteratinment systems...not just a "kids game machine". My wife an I have an PS3 which acts as a Blue-Ray player, Music Hub, Game Machine, Back-up Storage, and now Video Rental Machine (the lineup needs improvement).



    I am sorry, but the Apple TV will never be capable of playing games at even half the level of the PS3 and Xbox ...it is weaker than a standard Mac Mini





    I have said it many times before and it's happening now: Apple's ignoring the gaming industry will come back to bite it on the ass. Many potential PC switchers that I know won't switch to a mac because it's no good for gaming. And now the consoles are already in more houses than ATV will ever be and they are now going to be stealing even more movie and tv show rentals from ATV.



    And it's too risky too jump in the console war now with the competition being so intense. It would cost too much money. They need to focus on making the macs more game worthy at the very least. So they could have some of the profits.
  • Reply 102 of 126
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,141member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aresee View Post


    Or Apple could invite the media giants into the AppleTV by opening it up to their streaming clients. Netflix and the BBC would both love to put their own players on the AppleTV. And it would take away the studio gripes about Apple trying to dictate their prices if they had their own client and dealt directly with the consumers. They could stand or fall on their own mistakes. Maybe an AppleTV App store?



    My biggest complaint with AppleTV Take 2 is how iTunes Store centric it is. i bought the AppleTV last year as a simple way to get video from my iMac to my TV. But with Take 2 my personal store is secondary, almost hidden in the iTunes Store front end that the AppleTV has become. (And don't say I should have used a Mini. I tried and didn't like the result. I was suck using component video and the screen was to damn small to be usable.)



    I have to admit the design of Take2 makes your own content take a back seat (or would putting "My..." at the top of the menus fix this?) though I think opening the platform would only exacerbate the problem. No you shouldn't use a Mini - that's just for people who like to play (though can't you drop the resolution if you have a smaller screen in Front-row?).



    I think there are still too many issues with streaming and the internet's general inability to deliver it to Apple's customer expectations - fine for YouTube nonsense but not good for a serious movie. They should lighten up on the variable pricing now the die has been cast.



    McD
  • Reply 103 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by McDave View Post


    Most DivX movies are pirated downloads - are people who do this suddenly going to start buying/renting via iTunes? I also notice that you never actually used the AppleTV, instead basing your purchase on 'features' so you'd have missed the key advantage of AppleTV i.e. HOW it works.



    I don't think you were ever destined to become an AppleTV owner.



    McD



    Good job assuming sh*t from something I never posted. My parents own an AppleTV. They bought it right when it was introduced. I was the one who set it up for them. They used it for about a week or two. Then they realized their cable box is a lot easier to rent movies from using On Demand. A lot better selection as well. Now the thing sits there collecting dust. There is no advantage to it over the cable box for renting movies, and now no real advantage over a PS3 or XBOX360 as well. I also updated the machine to the Take 2 software and didn't see anything really worth a damn to make a difference. Wow, YouTube videos, only harder to navigate and search than just using a computer.



    Competition is good, especially if it is advancing technology and possibilities. Apple is lagging behind with the AppleTV compared to the other systems now. If you want to be an Apple zealot then go for it. But when something is not living up anywhere near to their expectations, I am going to call it out. Have fun drinking the Kool-Aid.



    And yes I occasionally download "pirated" movies. If the movie is good, then I will buy a hard copy of it on DVD or Blu-ray. If the movie sucks, I'm glad I saved my $3-20 to spend on something other than a piece of sh*t. The music industry has had to deal with that reality for a decade now. It's about time Hollywood did as well.
  • Reply 104 of 126
    dogtowndogtown Posts: 1member
    I own both the xbox 360 and apple tv. I think they serve very different purposes. xbox 360 right now is a game machine with certain media center functionality bolted on...The UI and navigation is several notches below apple tv... which is why they overhauled the UI to resemble apple tv. We'll see when that comes out... but right now, it's not close. It will work for xbox 360 owners... but won't fly for the non-gear heads.



    The appletv, while lacking certain critical media features, has other features not in the PS3/xbox 360. And for what it does, it does it very well. If you bought into the whole itunes ecosystem, then the apple tv is give you quite a bit of bang for the buck:



    Can't do this on xbox 360/ps3:

    1. Display itunes/flicker/mobileme photos (accompanied by music and nice transitions) With a few clicks, my dear old grandma is watching my personal flickr photostream. Could I teach her the xbox 360...? nope.



    2. stream audio/video podcasts on demand. This is very cool... they are lots of video podcasts i watch every night: network news, cnn, meet the press, g4, etc... since ps3/xbox360 sell their systems at a loss or near loss... there is no incentive to drive users to free content.



    3. Control my media from anywhere in my house using iphone. I wake up and start playing my morning mix from my bed.



    4. Internet Radio. Most people don't know how to do this... just add radio stations to a playlist and then sync... voila.



    5. Youtube content. Youtube is growing enormously and whenever someone comes over and says did you see that one clip? i'm like hold on, and then wihtin seconds we are watching the 320x240 content on my 42". still not bad!



    6. Works with itunes! I'm heavily invested in itunes... and it's not worth switching to another paradigm to get content onto xbox 360 / ps3.



    Since I don't have a 1080P tv, just 720P. I am content to gaffle what I can on the torrents...convert, then play. So movie rentals, HD content, blueray are not critical.
  • Reply 105 of 126
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,141member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DirtyBoots View Post


    Good job assuming sh*t from something I never posted.



    Yes you did...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DirtyBoots View Post


    I was thinking about getting an AppleTV, but then I realized that the PS3 plays DivX movies....My parents own an AppleTV....I was the one who set it up for them.



    The truth is...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DirtyBoots View Post


    And yes I occasionally download "pirated" movies. If the movie is good, then I will buy a hard copy of it on DVD or Blu-ray. If the movie sucks, I'm glad I saved my $3-20 to spend on something other than a piece of sh*t. The music industry has had to deal with that reality for a decade now. It's about time Hollywood did as well.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DirtyBoots View Post


    I was thinking about getting an AppleTV, but then I realized that the PS3 plays DivX movies...You can put your movie files on a simple thumb drive pop it in, and start playing them straight from the thumb drive.... and the fact that you have to hack it to get it to play DivX files is nothing but a pain and it's main flaw in my opinion. And yes I know you can convert the DivX movies to mp4, but that is a complete waste of time....Unless it gets a DV-R and the ability to play files other than mp4



    Heavy justification for your "occasional" download - try again!





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DirtyBoots View Post


    The writing is on the wall. It might stick around, but the promise it had has died out because Apple was slow to add features and get rid of their love of proprietary formats.



    Such as what? That MP4/AVC you mentioned?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DirtyBoots View Post


    I am going to call it out. Have fun drinking the Kool-Aid.



    Straight-talking, yet not.



    Try harder. McD
  • Reply 106 of 126
    caliminiuscaliminius Posts: 944member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dogtown View Post


    I own both the xbox 360 and apple tv. I think they serve very different purposes. xbox 360 right now is a game machine with certain media center functionality bolted on...The UI and navigation is several notches below apple tv... which is why they overhauled the UI to resemble apple tv. We'll see when that comes out... but right now, it's not close. It will work for xbox 360 owners... but won't fly for the non-gear heads.



    The appletv, while lacking certain critical media features, has other features not in the PS3/xbox 360. And for what it does, it does it very well. If you bought into the whole itunes ecosystem, then the apple tv is give you quite a bit of bang for the buck:



    Can't do this on xbox 360/ps3:

    1. Display itunes/flicker/mobileme photos (accompanied by music and nice transitions) With a few clicks, my dear old grandma is watching my personal flickr photostream. Could I teach her the xbox 360...? nope.



    2. stream audio/video podcasts on demand. This is very cool... they are lots of video podcasts i watch every night: network news, cnn, meet the press, g4, etc... since ps3/xbox360 sell their systems at a loss or near loss... there is no incentive to drive users to free content.



    3. Control my media from anywhere in my house using iphone. I wake up and start playing my morning mix from my bed.



    4. Internet Radio. Most people don't know how to do this... just add radio stations to a playlist and then sync... voila.



    5. Youtube content. Youtube is growing enormously and whenever someone comes over and says did you see that one clip? i'm like hold on, and then wihtin seconds we are watching the 320x240 content on my 42". still not bad!



    6. Works with itunes! I'm heavily invested in itunes... and it's not worth switching to another paradigm to get content onto xbox 360 / ps3.



    Since I don't have a 1080P tv, just 720P. I am content to gaffle what I can on the torrents...convert, then play. So movie rentals, HD content, blueray are not critical.



    1) You could slap your pictures on a flash drive or probably even just leave them on whatever media your digital camera uses, plug it into the PS3, and in a few clicks she could be viewing them with music and nice transitions.



    2) Assuming you subscribe to them in iTunes on your computer, you could stream those same podcasts to your PS3.



    3) Buy a PSP and you can use Remote Play to control the playing of your media from anywhere in your house (or any place else in the world with wi-fi). Plus you can also stream media to your PSP (even content that would be streamed to the PS3 first).



    4) Hmm, not sure if the PS3 can do that but the PSP can...



    5) Point the PS3 browser to YouTube.com and watch what you want...



    6) Well, that's sort of your own fault. It's one of the reasons I don't buy iTunes media because I don't want to be locked into one manufacturer's devices. Of course, all iTunes Plus content works just fine on the PS3. But since you don't mind converting stuff for AppleTV, you could always just burn all the DRM'ed music to CD and re-rip.



    Since you're content stealing stuff from torrents, you'd have a lot less conversion to do with a PS3 as it can play a lot more formats than the AppleTV.
  • Reply 107 of 126
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    lots of good points. in looking at all the systems for TV's - all kinds, all brands - the biggest obstacle to widespread consumer popularity is the UI - the on-screen menu that requires moving a cursor vertically or sideways by clicking remote control arrows. it is especially bad - tedious really - when you have to enter letters that way one at a time with a onscreen keyboard. no one has solved this, and AppleTV uses the same approach now.



    (you can hook up a bluetooth mouse and keyboard with the PS3 and maybe others, but few do. it doesn't feel intuitive.)



    the secret to Apple's success has always been "It's the UI, Stupid."



    so as Dan Dilger recommended in his AppleTV piece a month or two ago, the "revolutionary" UI change ATV should adopt is to fully link the iPhone/iPod Touch with it as a remote control. Couldn't Apple just load the iPod Touch software into AppleTV and use a bluetooth link to transmit the commands to it from the hand held iPhone/Touch someone is holding on the sofa? the Touch can already do everything ATV can, and much more - including

    Safari web browsing and all the new Apps and games! the one technical difference is the screen resolution level which needs to be much higher (you can't literally just plug in or mirror your Touch on your TV and get a useable picture), but the ATV already has that issue solved.



    all the other suggestions would help AppleTV too, but i think this is the key one. no other company's hardware could do it for several years, it would be unique and revolutionary. Apple could sell an awful lot of AppleTV/Touch combo packs at christmas! what a terrific gift that would be.
  • Reply 108 of 126
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  • Reply 109 of 126
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    well sure, any HTPC - mac or windows - can do a lot more than any "media extender" box. a lot of us have a Mini plugged into our HDTV for just that reason. you don't need a separate "server unit" like the way overpriced MS unit. the Mini does that network "sharing" function neatly. just add inexpensive external drives with tons of storage for your terabytes of media.



    high-end PC's include cable cards and DVR too. a nice all in one package. and adds-on like Slingbox are available that have not been ported to mac yet.



    but it's still Vista, and you have to play by MS rules. expect to be monitored, monetized, and DRM'd up the wazoo - forever.



    sounds like you are a hobbyist who puts your own systems together. more power to you. admittedly, that ain't the mac way.



    but HTPC's with all the bells and whistles are too complicated to set up for 80% of home consumers. heck, a majority probably can't even hook up a home theater receiver, and a lot never even figured out that old VCR. that's why the quest of all the media extenders is that simple box you plug and play, the one that 'just works.' maybe in the end it will be Sony and the others who physically build it all into the TV itself that ultimately win out.
  • Reply 110 of 126
    lifteruslifterus Posts: 28member
    ..........
  • Reply 111 of 126
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    "So what? I'm speaking to people here (most whom are more than sophisticated enough). This isn't some hypothetical "will this sell to the public, blah blah." I'm talking about something already available right now."



    that's cool. but my point - and the topic of this thread - was about the mass market addressed by AppleTV, the PS3, etc. so that was the 'so what'.



    as to Vista DRM, sorry, but you will never be able to disable "Windows Genuine Advantage," nor the Vista enforced HDCP licensing pathway control inside your PC. and you don't even know what system use info is being reported back to MS - because MS refuses to disclose what it is doing!! MS has installed all the tools needed for big brother control of your media, without your consent, via Vista. they have not pulled the trigger yet and used them, fearing a backlash. but how sure can anyone be that they never will??



    there ain't that stuff inside the Mac. some care about this, many don't.



    added point: actually one good feature of AppleTV - which does include HDCP DRM built in somehow in its software (anything with an HDMI port has to) - is that it segregates that stuff separate and external from your Mac computer.
  • Reply 112 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mistergsf View Post


    How 'bout backing that up, buddy, huh? I have all of my DVDs ripped to my Mac and the Apple TV is the perfect device to serve all of that media to me on the big screen in my living room. I personally know others who do the same thing. Not worth it to you but worth it to me. And speaking as a 45 year-old gadget freak who's weathered many down-turns in the economy, that has never stopped me from purchasing anything that gives me pleasure.



    jesus please get out of your parents basement and get a gf. is it really necessary to go all "wanna back it up buddy??? i'm so amazing because i have a giant tv with streaming content AND THAT GIVES ME PLEASURE."



    stop talking like it's a huge deal. a lot of people have that. big tvs and movies. it's not special anymore, it's common. it's not exclusive to gadget freaks. our office accountant does it and she's like 60.



    my point is, you're not a super-special rocket scientist gadget freak.
  • Reply 113 of 126
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    added point: actually one good feature of AppleTV - which does include HDCP DRM built in somehow in its software (anything with an HDMI port has to) - is that it segregates that stuff separate and external from your Mac computer.



    AppleTV supports it, but last I heard, HDMI doesn't explicitly require HDCP. There was a bit of a kerfluffle about that.
  • Reply 114 of 126
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,141member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lifterus View Post


    A lot has changed in the past 6 months. There are small sized, cheap PC motherboards with HD capable graphics chips built in. And with native HDMI (with embedded audio). For $350 or less you can put together a kick ass little system.



    No, most people can't. But they can use an AppleTV



    McD
  • Reply 115 of 126
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    the point about HDMI/HDCP is well taken. it is a bit more complex technically. From Wikipedia:



    "HDMI can use HDCP to encrypt the signal if required by the source device. CSS, CPPM, and AACS requires the use of HDCP on HDMI when playing back encrypted DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, and Blu-ray Disc. The HDCP Repeater bit controls the authentication and switching/distribution of an HDMI signal. According to HDCP Specification 1.2 beginning with HDMI CTS 1.3a, any system which implements HDCP must do so in a fully-compliant manner. HDCP testing which was previously only a requirement for optional tests such as the ?Simplay HD? testing program is now part of the requirements for HDMI compliance."



    but as a practical matter, all the consumer gear you see with HDMI in/outs is in fact implementing HDCP DRM - if present in the content - in its processing, including AppleTV. and AACS is specifically and pervasively built in to Vista.
  • Reply 116 of 126
    shady104shady104 Posts: 332member
    haha omg u guys really are drinking the kool-ade! the iphone is never gonna become a big deal in the gaming industry. one reason? NO BUTTONS! the games all suck!
  • Reply 117 of 126
    kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iVlad View Post


    1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV. Maybe its just me or not, but I see Apple TV targeted towards Family Audience and XBOX and PS3 towards younger generation and teenagers.



    I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.\



    2. To fight back, Apple just have to make Apple TV compatible with Games and other Apps and make Apple Remote into a Wii like pointer with Accelerometer.



    What is this, 1985? Seriously, you need to get out of your cave and realise that gamers have grown up. The average age of a 360 or PS3 player is 25-35, which is an ideal age range for renting high-def movies online.



    Maybe if you were talking about the Wii you would have more credability, but you're way off the mark here. You may also be interested to know that he PS3 is a damn good blu-ray player, the best on the market in fact.
  • Reply 118 of 126
    kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shady104 View Post


    haha omg u guys really are drinking the kool-ade! the iphone is never gonna become a big deal in the gaming industry. one reason? NO BUTTONS! the games all suck!



    Have you heard of the Nintendo DS? Many of it's most successful games use the touch screen exclusively, such as Nintendogs, Brain Age, Phoenix wright, and Animal Crossing.



    It's entirely possible to make a great variety of games on a touch screen, you just need to design for it.



    And by the way, please drop the 'txt' speak, it's really childish and hard to read.
  • Reply 119 of 126
    godriflegodrifle Posts: 266member
    I'm 39. I'm buying a PS3 for blu-ray, movie rental (if quality is good), and gaming for myself, my wife and three kids. To be fair, we may be in the minority because we don't view game consoles as babysitters, nor do we kowtow in scenarios where "the kid is not gonna like it."



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    What is this, 1985? Seriously, you need to get out of your cave and realise that gamers have grown up. The average age of a 360 or PS3 player is 25-35, which is an ideal age range for renting high-def movies online.



    Maybe if you were talking about the Wii you would have more credability, but you're way off the mark here. You may also be interested to know that he PS3 is a damn good blu-ray player, the best on the market in fact.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iVlad View Post


    1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV. Maybe its just me or not, but I see Apple TV targeted towards Family Audience and XBOX and PS3 towards younger generation and teenagers.



    I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.\



    2. To fight back, Apple just have to make Apple TV compatible with Games and other Apps and make Apple Remote into a Wii like pointer with Accelerometer.



  • Reply 120 of 126
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,141member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    What is this, 1985? Seriously, you need to get out of your cave and realise that gamers have grown up. The average age of a 360 or PS3 player is 25-35, which is an ideal age range for renting high-def movies online.



    Maybe if you were talking about the Wii you would have more credability, but you're way off the mark here. You may also be interested to know that he PS3 is a damn good blu-ray player, the best on the market in fact.



    The average age of a PS3/Xbox gamer may be 25-35 but the average 25-35 year old isn't a PS3/Xbox gamer (this blog readership excepted) so iVlad's comment holds true. Remember Apple aren't trying to grab existing marketshare so much as trying to create a new one.



    McD
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