Carniphage your talking crap now. Nokia only good at low end phones? I dont see SE or Samsung or anyone else for that matter able to compete with Nokia when it comes to top of the range phones.
Nokia are a funny company. They seem to do well wherever American companies ignore. In the US, no one is buying.
They do have a lot of market share.
But I think the next phase of phones is all about the software.
And being tied to Symbian in a software race, is like being tied to a ship's anchor in a swimming gala. We can't decide now. Come back in a year and see what's happened!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2
Its all about convergence devices these days and iphone doesn’t converge enough gadgets!
I thought convergence was last year?
It's Flickr's cameraphone graph. The pink line is iPhone.
The Yellow line is the N95.
Without a doubt, the N95 takes better pictures. But I think that people really don't care that much.
Here's an iPhone pic
Here's a N95 pic
The Nokia is sharper. But if you actually cared about the final few percent, you'd care enough to get a proper camera. For most people, I think a Polaroid-quality snap is good enough.
Which is exactly what all phones give you.
And probably why Polaroid are stopping making instant film.
The Nokia is sharper. But if you actually cared about the final few percent, you'd care enough to get a proper camera. For most people, I think a Polaroid-quality snap is good enough.
C.
Why should wanting the 'final few percent' make you any more of less likely to care about getting a proper camera? And when you have the choice, why settle for less?
And I'm sick of people quoting Flickr usage stats. With the iPhone you are *forced* to have a data plan whether you like it or not. With an N95, you *choose* to have a data plan. Even then, there are still enough N95 users who have chosen to have a data plan to match all of the iPhone users who are forced to have the same plan. That sounds like a clear win for the N95. If you force people to take out certain services, they are more likely to use them since they have no choice as to whether they are there or not. Please, don't embarrass yourself quoting these stats unless all the players are on a level playing field.
Let me dream up something totally stupid to make my point...
There are 2 men. One man is giving away chocolate bars for free (iPhone and included data plan). The other man is charging 50p per bar (N95 and optional data). Customers can choose whichever they want.
The first man gives away 100 bars of chocolate. The second man sells 50 bars.
As per the above Flickr stats, you're response to this would be, 'wow, the first man clearly has the best product because he's moved twice as many as the other person'.
In actual fact, this is the conclusion. The second mans product is clearly superior since 50 people have been willing to pay for it instead of choosing the free item.
Thats the thing I dont get. People wont admit that some of these omissions are plain stupid on the part of Apple. And it cant be to do with hardware either. All this "5 years ahead of any phone" and yet they also perhaps didnt fit in the right hardware for recording video? Please thats almost as cheeky as SE passing of Sony digi cam pics as the k850s
People wont admit that some of these omissions are plain stupid on the part of Apple.
I sincerely doubt it's stupidity. It may be that it just didn't make the cut of features they had time to implement, or it may be that there are technical reasons, or something else. But I don't think they are ignorant about video or feel that it's unimportant. This is the only computer company that includes video cameras on (almost) their full line of computers, and make a whole line of leading video-editing software. They're heavily invested in video. Why they don't do the obvious and put it in the iPhone, I don't know, but I doubt it's "stupidity."
Why should wanting the 'final few percent' make you any more of less likely to care about getting a proper camera? And when you have the choice, why settle for less?
But you *do* have a choice.
You can chose to forgo.
....a nice screen capable of viewing video.
....a best-in-class web browser
....a dreamcast-level games GPU
and replace it with that few extra percent of image quality. Buy a Viewty or an N95 instead of an iPhone.
It's a reasonable trade-off. Given the choice, you might think that is a good trade off. And pick a better camera over all this other stuff.
But I bloody wouldn't. Not in a million years.
Yes, there are are people out there that care massively about that extra 5 percent. image quality, They are a minority. But an important little market. But here's the thing. Those people use cameras to take their pictures.
A five megapixel camera on a phone is like a speedometer on a pushbike that goes up to a hundred. It's cool but, not it's really necessary. Its a gimmick.
and replace it with that few extra percent of image quality. Buy a Viewty or an N95 instead of an iPhone.
It's a reasonable trade-off. Given the choice, you might think that is a good trade off. And pick a better camera over all this other stuff.
But I bloody wouldn't. Not in a million years.
Yes, there are are people out there that care massively about that extra 5 percent. image quality, They are a minority. But an important little market. But here's the thing. Those people use cameras to take their pictures.
A five megapixel camera on a phone is like a speedometer on a pushbike that goes up to a hundred. It's cool but, not it's really necessary. Its a gimmick.
C.
N95 has a nice screen you can watch videos on.
It also has a great browser.
I'd argue that being able to play dreamcast style games on your phone is a gimmick. I'd bet you that more people use their phones for photography than for games, so the extra 5% in the camera department is going to be better value for the majority of people. Regardless, Symbian phones have an excellent range of games anyway. So with the N95 you get all those plus points you point out, and more.
Exactly. I never use my phones for any decent games. Maybe chess or something silly to pass time but id never bother myself with decent games. They are too big a drag on the battery. Also I think you are selling the camera part of a phone short. I think there is more than just a '5%' increase overall in quality when comparing iphones camera capbilities to the N95. Its probably more in the region of 75%.
I think your points may be valid in the states as sadley they get decent phones there. 2MP is probably enough for to quench your thirst but over here in Europe we have been used to more for a longer time so iphones camera is nothing short of a joke. By the end of this year we will have at least 3 8MP camera phones in Europe. Do you really think only a small portion of the entire mobile user spectrum is interested in the camera function? I think probabaly only a samll % of iphone customers in the UK ever use the weather function.
Comments
Carniphage your talking crap now. Nokia only good at low end phones? I dont see SE or Samsung or anyone else for that matter able to compete with Nokia when it comes to top of the range phones.
Nokia are a funny company. They seem to do well wherever American companies ignore. In the US, no one is buying.
They do have a lot of market share.
But I think the next phase of phones is all about the software.
And being tied to Symbian in a software race, is like being tied to a ship's anchor in a swimming gala. We can't decide now. Come back in a year and see what's happened!
Its all about convergence devices these days and iphone doesn’t converge enough gadgets!
I thought convergence was last year?
It's Flickr's cameraphone graph. The pink line is iPhone.
The Yellow line is the N95.
Without a doubt, the N95 takes better pictures. But I think that people really don't care that much.
Here's an iPhone pic
Here's a N95 pic
The Nokia is sharper. But if you actually cared about the final few percent, you'd care enough to get a proper camera. For most people, I think a Polaroid-quality snap is good enough.
Which is exactly what all phones give you.
And probably why Polaroid are stopping making instant film.
C.
The Nokia is sharper. But if you actually cared about the final few percent, you'd care enough to get a proper camera. For most people, I think a Polaroid-quality snap is good enough.
C.
Why should wanting the 'final few percent' make you any more of less likely to care about getting a proper camera? And when you have the choice, why settle for less?
And I'm sick of people quoting Flickr usage stats. With the iPhone you are *forced* to have a data plan whether you like it or not. With an N95, you *choose* to have a data plan. Even then, there are still enough N95 users who have chosen to have a data plan to match all of the iPhone users who are forced to have the same plan. That sounds like a clear win for the N95. If you force people to take out certain services, they are more likely to use them since they have no choice as to whether they are there or not. Please, don't embarrass yourself quoting these stats unless all the players are on a level playing field.
Let me dream up something totally stupid to make my point...
There are 2 men. One man is giving away chocolate bars for free (iPhone and included data plan). The other man is charging 50p per bar (N95 and optional data). Customers can choose whichever they want.
The first man gives away 100 bars of chocolate. The second man sells 50 bars.
As per the above Flickr stats, you're response to this would be, 'wow, the first man clearly has the best product because he's moved twice as many as the other person'.
In actual fact, this is the conclusion. The second mans product is clearly superior since 50 people have been willing to pay for it instead of choosing the free item.
People wont admit that some of these omissions are plain stupid on the part of Apple.
I sincerely doubt it's stupidity. It may be that it just didn't make the cut of features they had time to implement, or it may be that there are technical reasons, or something else. But I don't think they are ignorant about video or feel that it's unimportant. This is the only computer company that includes video cameras on (almost) their full line of computers, and make a whole line of leading video-editing software. They're heavily invested in video. Why they don't do the obvious and put it in the iPhone, I don't know, but I doubt it's "stupidity."
Why should wanting the 'final few percent' make you any more of less likely to care about getting a proper camera? And when you have the choice, why settle for less?
But you *do* have a choice.
You can chose to forgo.
....a nice screen capable of viewing video.
....a best-in-class web browser
....a dreamcast-level games GPU
and replace it with that few extra percent of image quality. Buy a Viewty or an N95 instead of an iPhone.
It's a reasonable trade-off. Given the choice, you might think that is a good trade off. And pick a better camera over all this other stuff.
But I bloody wouldn't. Not in a million years.
Yes, there are are people out there that care massively about that extra 5 percent. image quality, They are a minority. But an important little market. But here's the thing. Those people use cameras to take their pictures.
A five megapixel camera on a phone is like a speedometer on a pushbike that goes up to a hundred. It's cool but, not it's really necessary. Its a gimmick.
C.
But you *do* have a choice.
You can chose to forgo.
....a nice screen capable of viewing video.
....a best-in-class web browser
....a dreamcast-level games GPU
and replace it with that few extra percent of image quality. Buy a Viewty or an N95 instead of an iPhone.
It's a reasonable trade-off. Given the choice, you might think that is a good trade off. And pick a better camera over all this other stuff.
But I bloody wouldn't. Not in a million years.
Yes, there are are people out there that care massively about that extra 5 percent. image quality, They are a minority. But an important little market. But here's the thing. Those people use cameras to take their pictures.
A five megapixel camera on a phone is like a speedometer on a pushbike that goes up to a hundred. It's cool but, not it's really necessary. Its a gimmick.
C.
N95 has a nice screen you can watch videos on.
It also has a great browser.
I'd argue that being able to play dreamcast style games on your phone is a gimmick. I'd bet you that more people use their phones for photography than for games, so the extra 5% in the camera department is going to be better value for the majority of people. Regardless, Symbian phones have an excellent range of games anyway. So with the N95 you get all those plus points you point out, and more.
I think your points may be valid in the states as sadley they get decent phones there. 2MP is probably enough for to quench your thirst but over here in Europe we have been used to more for a longer time so iphones camera is nothing short of a joke. By the end of this year we will have at least 3 8MP camera phones in Europe. Do you really think only a small portion of the entire mobile user spectrum is interested in the camera function? I think probabaly only a samll % of iphone customers in the UK ever use the weather function.