I'm not at this point convinced the problem is with iPhone 3G.
A couple months ago, the Motorola v180 that had been our primary mobile phone just flippin' quit. Calls on AT&T's network in my area were cutting off. The blasted thing just would keep calls connected. I'd have to redial several times just to complete one call.
A friend of mine had an old Nokia (branded for Cingular), and gave it to me. I popped in the SIM from my v180 and noticed several things. First, the Nokia phone worked with my old SIM, no fuss or muss. Second, the signal strength from the towers in my area was fluctuating wildly on the Nokia's meter. When I would put a call on speakerphone, and dial, signal strength would be at "full" strength. As soon as the call completed, the meter would plunge to "half" strength or so. I'd then pop the SIM out of the Nokia, and back into the v180. The v180 would work normally -- once or twice. I'd then go back to the multiple redials needed to complete calls. As soon as I'd go back to the Nokia -- same SIM -- the calls would complete normally. I concluded the Nokia hardware or software somehow had better reception than the Moto.
My guess is that AT&T has some sort of problems with their network in the USA. I also would not fall over dead to learn that AT&T has some sort of goofy software on their network that bans IMEIs of older phones to push new headset sales. Or perhaps it could be some buggy software in the switch at the cellular tower site. I also think there's some buggyness in iPhone 3G's software.
All of these are simply guesses until Apple or AT&T fesses up to the customer base.
Everyone on this forum really should take some time to read the threads on Howard Forums and Apple Support regarding the significant complaints on the 3G IPhone's poor signal quality when compared to other manufacturer's 3G phones on the same network and in exactly the same location. It makes for a sober reading. There are some very unhappy people out there in strong 3G coverage areas (Japan, Norway, Manhattan), who feel that the 3G iPhone has some highly significant issues.
I think Pogue had 3G issues while driving through NYC. There needs to be testing done with other 3G handsets on AT&T's network to get a full picture. I have had no issues with 3G signal strength so this may just be some bad devices.
PS: What an ugly forum. I'm glad AI doesn't allow avatars.
I've had almost all the issues mentioned on my iPod touch as well (w/2.0 installed) so I would point my finger in the direction of the software for sure.
Sometimes the UI lag, (which occurs for me primarily with contacts, mail, and calendar), seems like it's a result of the poor performance of the syncing software though. MobileMe not only does not work for me (still!), it actually loses data and (apparently) freezes the apps sometimes.
In my experience, opening MobileMe from the browser takes 10 or 20 seconds to load and is buggy, slow as molasses and occasionally even freezes. It's not a stretch to think that the failures and general slowness of MobileMe sync might have something to do with freezing the apps on the iPhone/iPod at times also. It would make sense programmatically for instance, that the Contacts app would check with the MobileMe server when you open it, and this is exactly where it freezes.
Alternatively, since the MobileMe sync is still not working properly for me (and for many people), my iPod often has a different set of mail, contacts, and calendar info than any of my Macs or the server (yes, hard to believe but MobileMe *is* that busted for some of us). That alone could easily cause problems with slowness. This assumes of course that the set of people experiencing the problems with their iPhone are the same set or a subset of people still having troubles with MobileMe.
I'm wondering if some of the mobile me push technology is built around the same sync engine Apple is building into Snow Leopard Server. Seems a little like they pushed out a beta service. Speaking of which, I'm wondering why they didn't first give people the option of switching to mobile me in beta similar to how Microsoft pushed out Live. I think Apple was extremely naive to think they were gonna be able to make the switch over with very few issues.
Just goes to show that as they've expanded themselves outside of just a hardware company they still haven't changed their mentality from providing packaged products to providing services. The 2 just don't work the same. You can be secretive about what line of Macs you are gonna offer in a month. If you push out a dud people can return it for something else. Services just don't work that way, people depend on them a lot more & can't just exchange them on a whim.
I have one of the first generation phones as well and indeed 2.0 is buggy. I also find Mobile Me is a nightmare thus far. Apple has a lot of its plate to solve as a result of the 3G Release. I was going to pass my 1st generation phone down to my kid and get the 3G but I am not hearing enough positives yet on functionality. Please keep the feedback of your experiences going.
I have one of the first generation phones as well and indeed 2.0 is buggy. I also find Mobile Me is a nightmare thus far. Apple has a lot of its plate to solve as a result of the 3G Release. I was going to pass my 1st generation phone down to my kid and get the 3G but I am not hearing enough positives yet on functionality. Please keep the feedback of your experiences going.
v2.0 has considerable issues for me but MM is working fine now. WHat country are you in and what MM issues are you having?
OS 9 was very outdated. There is no way Apple could have continued to 2008 with that aged foundation, but I agree that the shift to Intel has probably doen more for converting people to Macs than the OS has, but mainly because people are informed enough about how the underbelly on an OS works.
OS9 may have been outdated for the new chips and for multi-core support, etc., but it was and still is snappier than OSX. Give 'em another 5 years to really get the kinks ironed out.
Well, the problems reported in Europe, Japan and Australia are clearly not AT&T's issue. That's beyond any doubt.
Have you considered the possibility the switches at the cellphone towers in Europe, Japan, and Australia might be manufactured by the same firm as the the one AT&T uses?
That's why I'm not convinced the issues are iPhone 3G's. I think there's probably some bugs in (insert name of switch manufacturer's) software or hardware. Who manufactures the GSM hardware for cellphone towers anyway? Ericsson? Alcatel/Lucent? Motorola?
If this issue appears in different countries with different GSM tower hardware suppliers, I'll certainly join into the "iPhone 3G sux" chorus. \
Apparently I got lucky, because I have almost no issues with my iPhone 3G. The only thing I have noticed is some periodic lag when navigating the menus/apps...especially with my contacts. But other than that I couldn't be more happy. My GPS works great, with or without 3G. I'm surprised there are so many complaints about battery life. My battery gets almost six hours of usage time before needing to be recharged. That's with 3G, Wifi, fetch set at "hourly", no bluetooth, and screen brightness at 50%. I use the iPod every day at work for about 2 - 3 hours, plus email, internet, games, etc. In the 10 days that I've owned it, I've only been warned of a low battery one time. Maybe my expectations are too low, but my girlfriend's Blackjack II runs out of battery faster, and she has about half of the usage options. To me that seems pretty dang good. I mean what do you expect? Look at how small it is, you're not going to get 10 hours of usage out of this thing. I don't understand what people are doing that burns through their battery in five hours or less?
Apparently I got lucky, because I have almost no issues with my iPhone 3G. The only thing I have noticed is some periodic lag when navigating the menus/apps...especially with my contacts. But other than that I couldn't be more happy. My GPS works great, with or without 3G. I'm surprised there are so many complaints about battery life. My battery gets almost six hours of usage time before needing to be recharged. That's with 3G, Wifi, fetch set at "hourly", no bluetooth, and screen brightness at 50%. I use the iPod every day at work for about 2 - 3 hours, plus email, internet, games, etc. In the 10 days that I've owned it, I've only been warned of a low battery one time. Maybe my expectations are too low, but my girlfriend's Blackjack II runs out of battery faster, and she has about half of the usage options. To me that seems pretty dang good. I mean what do you expect? Look at how small it is, you're not going to get 10 hours of usage out of this thing. I don't understand what people are doing that burns through their battery in five hours or less?
Is anyone having back up issues where it takes a long time for your iPhone to back up to iTunes. Mine has taken over 30 mins to date, and it seems to take longer and longer.
****UPDATE****
Just spoke to one of the Apple "Geniuses" about the hour long syncing problem. I was told that the reason it takes so long is because all of the info on my iPhone has to be pushed back to the iPhone and the only way to make it sync is to remove some of the data. Is this priceless? I finally asked should I just remove everything so that I could sync faster and she said yes. Then she realized that this was not a good idea as the iPhone would be empty. I felt bad for her. As it stands, there is something wrong with the way my iPhone syncs so the new firmware might fix this.
Have you considered the possibility the switches at the cellphone towers in Europe, Japan, and Australia might be manufactured by the same firm as the the one AT&T uses?
That's why I'm not convinced the issues are iPhone 3G's. I think there's probably some bugs in (insert name of switch manufacturer's) software or hardware. Who manufactures the GSM hardware for cellphone towers anyway? Ericsson? Alcatel/Lucent? Motorola?
If this issue appears in different countries with different GSM tower hardware suppliers, I'll certainly join into the "iPhone 3G sux" chorus. \
Resectfully, it would be a waste of time to consider it because on the Apple Support Discussion group for the 3G iPhone where signal strenght issues are being discussed widely, there has been worldwide report after report of people using their existing/previous brand of 3G phone without any problem whatsoever. Other 3g phones are working fine, getting strong signal strength and data througput while the iPhone has poor signal strenght and data throughput in exactly the same location at the same time, and even using the same iPhone SIM card.
Apple is responsible for their iPhones, their choice of chipset, power management etc. Its not the carrier's fault, the switches, the user or Microsoft's problem. Hopefully, Apple is close to finding a solution.
Either way, we can debate which had more effect than the other and there is no way the debate will ever be definitively answered as there are just too many variables involved.
Diplomatically we can say that many factors have contributed to Apple's increased Mac growth.
It's just disturbing to me that all the largest and most impressive factors happened within half a decade.
SO i got my second phone after the first one that i had had "major hardware issues" (apple support) and my second phone decided to start having problems too: it wont connect to EDGE or 3G at all... no icon in the corner or internet connection. Now i know that there is 3G where i live and for sure there is EDGE, my friend gets EDGE on his first gen at my house. WIFI isnt the issue but whats the use of having a iPhone 3G without any 3G?
I dont want to restore as that was when my last phone had major issues, right after i restored. Soft reset and powering down didnt do anything. Does it sound like something that is software related or am i gonna have to make yet another trip to replace my phone?....
Resectfully, it would be a waste of time to consider it because on the Apple Support Discussion group for the 3G iPhone where signal strenght issues are being discussed widely, there has been worldwide report after report of people using their existing/previous brand of 3G phone without any problem whatsoever. Other 3g phones are working fine, getting strong signal strength and data througput while the iPhone has poor signal strenght and data throughput in exactly the same location at the same time, and even using the same iPhone SIM card.
I don't have time to go to Apple Support's Discussion group or HoFo and wade through the topics until I find the one where the real discussion takes place. Furthermore, the area in which I live hasn't got its 3G service lit up, and probably won't for the next few months. So in some ways this isn't the issue to me that it is for others.
Having said that, I have to say this. I did travel through an area with 3G service, and tried to make a call to a work colleague who has an Alltel smartphone. My iPhone 3G merrily dropped the call attempts, especially while the iPhone 3G was trying to switch back and forth from 3G to EDGE. So the problem appears to be with iPhone, and not with other people's stuff, and I can say I experienced it personally. Being skeptical has its disadvantages, sometimes.
Having said that, I have to say this. I did travel through an area with 3G service, and tried to make a call to a work colleague who has an Alltel smartphone. My iPhone 3G merrily dropped the call attempts, especially while the iPhone 3G was trying to switch back and forth from 3G to EDGE. So the problem appears to be with iPhone, and not with other people's stuff, and I can say I experienced it personally. Being skeptical has its disadvantages, sometimes.
If you're traveling on the edge of 3G you are going to have problems. If you know that is the case then turn off 3G so you can have uninterrupted GSM connectivity.
If you're traveling on the edge of 3G you are going to have problems. If you know that is the case then turn off 3G so you can have uninterrupted GSM connectivity.
I don't think that makes much sense, if the signal is too weak, it shouldn't be trying to use it. It seems like it should fall back before signal strength gets to be problematic. I'm personally not seeing much incentive to even have 3G mode turned on at all, it's less fiddling.
I don't think that makes much sense, if the signal is too weak, it shouldn't be trying to use it. It seems like it should fall back before signal strength gets to be problematic. I'm personally not seeing much incentive to even have 3G mode turned on at all, it's less fiddling.
If he was stationary, sure; but he specifically stated he was traveling. The handset only know when the signal is good enough when you initiate the call. From what I've read, it appears that EV-DO can use "2G" for calls while simultaneously using "3G" for data, but UMTS can't use "2G' for calls if "3G is enabled and active. I've also read that this is why CDMA/CDMA2000 based devices can get longer talk time on smaller batteries when "3G" is enabled.
If you're traveling on the edge of 3G you are going to have problems. If you know that is the case then turn off 3G so you can have uninterrupted GSM connectivity.
Right now, that seems like the most reasonable solution. Turn off the 3G features while driving through areas which may or may not have 3G, until Apple sorts the software out. If stopped, one can flip the 3G back on, and use it. A PITA, for sure. Not quite what one expects from Apple. I feel like I'm back in 1985, using a Mac 512K all over again. Such is life with new technology. \
It seems to be a consensus view that iPhone 3G's issues with 3G are Apple ones, and not AT&T's. IMO, the software could stand a bit more baking. If only Apple would get more real-world testing done in flyover country...
Comments
A couple months ago, the Motorola v180 that had been our primary mobile phone just flippin' quit. Calls on AT&T's network in my area were cutting off. The blasted thing just would keep calls connected. I'd have to redial several times just to complete one call.
A friend of mine had an old Nokia (branded for Cingular), and gave it to me. I popped in the SIM from my v180 and noticed several things. First, the Nokia phone worked with my old SIM, no fuss or muss. Second, the signal strength from the towers in my area was fluctuating wildly on the Nokia's meter. When I would put a call on speakerphone, and dial, signal strength would be at "full" strength. As soon as the call completed, the meter would plunge to "half" strength or so. I'd then pop the SIM out of the Nokia, and back into the v180. The v180 would work normally -- once or twice. I'd then go back to the multiple redials needed to complete calls. As soon as I'd go back to the Nokia -- same SIM -- the calls would complete normally. I concluded the Nokia hardware or software somehow had better reception than the Moto.
My guess is that AT&T has some sort of problems with their network in the USA. I also would not fall over dead to learn that AT&T has some sort of goofy software on their network that bans IMEIs of older phones to push new headset sales. Or perhaps it could be some buggy software in the switch at the cellular tower site. I also think there's some buggyness in iPhone 3G's software.
All of these are simply guesses until Apple or AT&T fesses up to the customer base.
Everyone on this forum really should take some time to read the threads on Howard Forums and Apple Support regarding the significant complaints on the 3G IPhone's poor signal quality when compared to other manufacturer's 3G phones on the same network and in exactly the same location. It makes for a sober reading. There are some very unhappy people out there in strong 3G coverage areas (Japan, Norway, Manhattan), who feel that the 3G iPhone has some highly significant issues.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....02608&tstart=0
Problems are widespread, but how many units are affected remains to be determined. It has nothing to do with AT&T coverage (poor as it may be)
Here is the Howard Forum on it. I think Pogue had 3G issues while driving through NYC. There needs to be testing done with other 3G handsets on AT&T's network to get a full picture. I have had no issues with 3G signal strength so this may just be some bad devices.
PS: What an ugly forum. I'm glad AI doesn't allow avatars.
I've had almost all the issues mentioned on my iPod touch as well (w/2.0 installed) so I would point my finger in the direction of the software for sure.
Sometimes the UI lag, (which occurs for me primarily with contacts, mail, and calendar), seems like it's a result of the poor performance of the syncing software though. MobileMe not only does not work for me (still!), it actually loses data and (apparently) freezes the apps sometimes.
In my experience, opening MobileMe from the browser takes 10 or 20 seconds to load and is buggy, slow as molasses and occasionally even freezes. It's not a stretch to think that the failures and general slowness of MobileMe sync might have something to do with freezing the apps on the iPhone/iPod at times also. It would make sense programmatically for instance, that the Contacts app would check with the MobileMe server when you open it, and this is exactly where it freezes.
Alternatively, since the MobileMe sync is still not working properly for me (and for many people), my iPod often has a different set of mail, contacts, and calendar info than any of my Macs or the server (yes, hard to believe but MobileMe *is* that busted for some of us). That alone could easily cause problems with slowness. This assumes of course that the set of people experiencing the problems with their iPhone are the same set or a subset of people still having troubles with MobileMe.
I'm wondering if some of the mobile me push technology is built around the same sync engine Apple is building into Snow Leopard Server. Seems a little like they pushed out a beta service. Speaking of which, I'm wondering why they didn't first give people the option of switching to mobile me in beta similar to how Microsoft pushed out Live. I think Apple was extremely naive to think they were gonna be able to make the switch over with very few issues.
Just goes to show that as they've expanded themselves outside of just a hardware company they still haven't changed their mentality from providing packaged products to providing services. The 2 just don't work the same. You can be secretive about what line of Macs you are gonna offer in a month. If you push out a dud people can return it for something else. Services just don't work that way, people depend on them a lot more & can't just exchange them on a whim.
I'm not at this point convinced the problem is with iPhone 3G.
Well, the problems reported in Europe, Japan and Australia are clearly not AT&T's issue. That's beyond any doubt.
Sorry- but your response seems much more emotional than his post- ease up!
What are you - the Apple disciplinarian?
No, he's not the Apple disciplinarian but he and others are easy to troll. Apparently blind loyalty and sarcasm don't compute.
I have one of the first generation phones as well and indeed 2.0 is buggy. I also find Mobile Me is a nightmare thus far. Apple has a lot of its plate to solve as a result of the 3G Release. I was going to pass my 1st generation phone down to my kid and get the 3G but I am not hearing enough positives yet on functionality. Please keep the feedback of your experiences going.
v2.0 has considerable issues for me but MM is working fine now. WHat country are you in and what MM issues are you having?
OS 9 was very outdated. There is no way Apple could have continued to 2008 with that aged foundation, but I agree that the shift to Intel has probably doen more for converting people to Macs than the OS has, but mainly because people are informed enough about how the underbelly on an OS works.
OS9 may have been outdated for the new chips and for multi-core support, etc., but it was and still is snappier than OSX. Give 'em another 5 years to really get the kinks ironed out.
Well, the problems reported in Europe, Japan and Australia are clearly not AT&T's issue. That's beyond any doubt.
Have you considered the possibility the switches at the cellphone towers in Europe, Japan, and Australia might be manufactured by the same firm as the the one AT&T uses?
That's why I'm not convinced the issues are iPhone 3G's. I think there's probably some bugs in (insert name of switch manufacturer's) software or hardware. Who manufactures the GSM hardware for cellphone towers anyway? Ericsson? Alcatel/Lucent? Motorola?
If this issue appears in different countries with different GSM tower hardware suppliers, I'll certainly join into the "iPhone 3G sux" chorus.
Apparently I got lucky, because I have almost no issues with my iPhone 3G. The only thing I have noticed is some periodic lag when navigating the menus/apps...especially with my contacts. But other than that I couldn't be more happy. My GPS works great, with or without 3G. I'm surprised there are so many complaints about battery life. My battery gets almost six hours of usage time before needing to be recharged. That's with 3G, Wifi, fetch set at "hourly", no bluetooth, and screen brightness at 50%. I use the iPod every day at work for about 2 - 3 hours, plus email, internet, games, etc. In the 10 days that I've owned it, I've only been warned of a low battery one time. Maybe my expectations are too low, but my girlfriend's Blackjack II runs out of battery faster, and she has about half of the usage options. To me that seems pretty dang good. I mean what do you expect? Look at how small it is, you're not going to get 10 hours of usage out of this thing. I don't understand what people are doing that burns through their battery in five hours or less?
Same here. I guess we ARE the lucky ones.
****UPDATE****
Just spoke to one of the Apple "Geniuses" about the hour long syncing problem. I was told that the reason it takes so long is because all of the info on my iPhone has to be pushed back to the iPhone and the only way to make it sync is to remove some of the data. Is this priceless? I finally asked should I just remove everything so that I could sync faster and she said yes. Then she realized that this was not a good idea as the iPhone would be empty. I felt bad for her. As it stands, there is something wrong with the way my iPhone syncs so the new firmware might fix this.
Have you considered the possibility the switches at the cellphone towers in Europe, Japan, and Australia might be manufactured by the same firm as the the one AT&T uses?
That's why I'm not convinced the issues are iPhone 3G's. I think there's probably some bugs in (insert name of switch manufacturer's) software or hardware. Who manufactures the GSM hardware for cellphone towers anyway? Ericsson? Alcatel/Lucent? Motorola?
If this issue appears in different countries with different GSM tower hardware suppliers, I'll certainly join into the "iPhone 3G sux" chorus.
Resectfully, it would be a waste of time to consider it because on the Apple Support Discussion group for the 3G iPhone where signal strenght issues are being discussed widely, there has been worldwide report after report of people using their existing/previous brand of 3G phone without any problem whatsoever. Other 3g phones are working fine, getting strong signal strength and data througput while the iPhone has poor signal strenght and data throughput in exactly the same location at the same time, and even using the same iPhone SIM card.
Apple is responsible for their iPhones, their choice of chipset, power management etc. Its not the carrier's fault, the switches, the user or Microsoft's problem. Hopefully, Apple is close to finding a solution.
Either way, we can debate which had more effect than the other and there is no way the debate will ever be definitively answered as there are just too many variables involved.
Diplomatically we can say that many factors have contributed to Apple's increased Mac growth.
It's just disturbing to me that all the largest and most impressive factors happened within half a decade.
I dont want to restore as that was when my last phone had major issues, right after i restored. Soft reset and powering down didnt do anything. Does it sound like something that is software related or am i gonna have to make yet another trip to replace my phone?....
Resectfully, it would be a waste of time to consider it because on the Apple Support Discussion group for the 3G iPhone where signal strenght issues are being discussed widely, there has been worldwide report after report of people using their existing/previous brand of 3G phone without any problem whatsoever. Other 3g phones are working fine, getting strong signal strength and data througput while the iPhone has poor signal strenght and data throughput in exactly the same location at the same time, and even using the same iPhone SIM card.
I don't have time to go to Apple Support's Discussion group or HoFo and wade through the topics until I find the one where the real discussion takes place. Furthermore, the area in which I live hasn't got its 3G service lit up, and probably won't for the next few months. So in some ways this isn't the issue to me that it is for others.
Having said that, I have to say this. I did travel through an area with 3G service, and tried to make a call to a work colleague who has an Alltel smartphone. My iPhone 3G merrily dropped the call attempts, especially while the iPhone 3G was trying to switch back and forth from 3G to EDGE. So the problem appears to be with iPhone, and not with other people's stuff, and I can say I experienced it personally. Being skeptical has its disadvantages, sometimes.
Having said that, I have to say this. I did travel through an area with 3G service, and tried to make a call to a work colleague who has an Alltel smartphone. My iPhone 3G merrily dropped the call attempts, especially while the iPhone 3G was trying to switch back and forth from 3G to EDGE. So the problem appears to be with iPhone, and not with other people's stuff, and I can say I experienced it personally. Being skeptical has its disadvantages, sometimes.
If you're traveling on the edge of 3G you are going to have problems. If you know that is the case then turn off 3G so you can have uninterrupted GSM connectivity.
If you're traveling on the edge of 3G you are going to have problems. If you know that is the case then turn off 3G so you can have uninterrupted GSM connectivity.
I don't think that makes much sense, if the signal is too weak, it shouldn't be trying to use it. It seems like it should fall back before signal strength gets to be problematic. I'm personally not seeing much incentive to even have 3G mode turned on at all, it's less fiddling.
I don't think that makes much sense, if the signal is too weak, it shouldn't be trying to use it. It seems like it should fall back before signal strength gets to be problematic. I'm personally not seeing much incentive to even have 3G mode turned on at all, it's less fiddling.
If he was stationary, sure; but he specifically stated he was traveling. The handset only know when the signal is good enough when you initiate the call. From what I've read, it appears that EV-DO can use "2G" for calls while simultaneously using "3G" for data, but UMTS can't use "2G' for calls if "3G is enabled and active. I've also read that this is why CDMA/CDMA2000 based devices can get longer talk time on smaller batteries when "3G" is enabled.
If you're traveling on the edge of 3G you are going to have problems. If you know that is the case then turn off 3G so you can have uninterrupted GSM connectivity.
Right now, that seems like the most reasonable solution. Turn off the 3G features while driving through areas which may or may not have 3G, until Apple sorts the software out. If stopped, one can flip the 3G back on, and use it. A PITA, for sure. Not quite what one expects from Apple. I feel like I'm back in 1985, using a Mac 512K all over again. Such is life with new technology.
It seems to be a consensus view that iPhone 3G's issues with 3G are Apple ones, and not AT&T's. IMO, the software could stand a bit more baking. If only Apple would get more real-world testing done in flyover country...