Hopefully these will make up for the last two minor speed bumps.
According to AnandTech's preliminary testing of Montevina the performance increase is on par with the other updates, but as usual that comes with a faster MHz rating for the same price as the previous model and much better power usage, which is arguably more important on a notebook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi
I can't see what can be so interesting that the chipset is worth redesigning myself, it's functionality is fairly standard...
The only thing I see is a way for Apple to lock the OS to the system with a proprietary chipset.
Apple will have to prove this line of crap to me about leaving the competition scrambling etc. After the "top secret" options never showed up in Leopard that Steve talked about, I'll believe anything once I see it.
Custom Apple designed chipsets for product classes that do not exist yet. Come on people; use your brains.
Agreed, they can make very Apple specific features widening the gap over other manufacturers using off the shelf sets while still using the latest CPUs from Intel. This is good news for sure as it means they have something up their sleeves in Cupertino.
Sounds to me like Apple wants to use a standard Intel CPU with a proprietary northbridge and/or southbridge.
It could be something as simple as Apple wanting to support more than 4GB in their pro laptops/iMacs. Shouting about 64-bit doesn't make a whole lot of sense when your hardware only supports 4GB.
Hasn't Apple been designing custom silicon for years with the iPods?
Perhaps Apple are planning on parking the OS on silicon? That could be sweet?
I didn't read all the post cause too many people pissed me off for not reading correctly...so I thought I'd do it too.
Anyhow.
They did not say they were replacing the main processor (intel) with a new one. They said they would replace other parts of the motherboard, separate chipsets that work along with the main CPU. Best believe apple will continue to use Intel CPU's it keeps them in the game speed wise and on the same upgrade pace (if they want) as their competitors. What I would guess, and they already do it, is that they would use alternitives for USB, FIrewire, bluetooth, video card, wifi, and like some said here, 3G.
There are more chips on the board than just the CPU, it will be ok. In fact it might just get better. DO you really think that apple hasn't learned from the past. The way it's looking they have only shown a glimpse of how much they learned. Apple is the future of mainstream computing.
A couple things. 1. as long as there system speed remain on par with windows systems (easy) and 2. as long as it (a mac) can run windows natively (for the time being (5 years)) than don't worry about it.
DUDDDEEE i cannot wait 6-8 weeks. i was riding on the late july-early august refresh. if i buy one now, (or this weekend) how long do i have to return it? does anyone know. will i even be able to return it for the new one?
I know the difference between a CPU and a chipset. My point was that the more custom chips you have, the more risk you're at for manufacturing and supply delays, bugs, etc., that affect only you.
This could be good, but it's also a very high-risk move if true.
Actually, it's lower risk since you control the process yourself and have more options for suppliers. And it means that you are less likely to be affected by problems that affect everyone else.
Intel and HDD manufacturers have such options on the market that use SSD for fast booting and laoding of apps, but so far the results have been less than stellar.
Eventually people will realise that SSDs, as they stand today, are by and large slower than HDDs. The future might fix that.
I'm still picturing some kind of specialized high-performance SSD controller where the SSD contains key components of the OS and other software. But, I'm not overly aware of what chipsets are currently available for that type of application to speculate further. I could easily envision some kind of near instant-on and loading of apps scenario.
SSD drives are not even near exceeding the capacity of SATA.
Personally, I don't see a point in replacing the chipset. Those are very complex now, and even in Apple's volumes, I don't see being near competitive in price and performance combined, versus an off the shelf chipset. I really don't think the chipsets are the weak link.
Something i see more likely happening is maybe something like a coprocessor that takes a PCIe lane. I mean, an H.264 encoder or decoder would only need a PCIe lane and likely can encode or decode in better than real time without hogging the CPU or consuming nearly as much power. If it's two PCIe lanes, then you can handle uncompressed HD going in and out at the same time.
DUDDDEEE i cannot wait 6-8 weeks. i was riding on the late july-early august refresh. if i buy one now, (or this weekend) how long do i have to return it? does anyone know. will i even be able to return it for the new one?
I agree...why would they wait this long? And how would these awesome new products affect Q3 margins if they don't come out until the end of September? I think they have to come out in August.
I didn't explain myself well. Other vendors use and can use the 'other' non-Intel chipsets.
Not on the mobile platform though. They haven't licensed their mobile sockets since VIA used its license to introduce a socket 479 version of their C7 CPU.
and i thought the whole reason we were waiting this long for the overdue MB/P revision was Montevina. now they are ditching it, and we have to wait longer... i need one for college
Is anyone else rolling their eyes and saying "here we go again?" Apple tried going their own way for years, and mostly what they got out of it was being slower than the competition and having serious supply constraints. If this article is true, I wouldn't want to be long on Apple.
Hardly, for the majority of the time they were faster. Towards the end mind they were utter crap.But that was Motorola's fault.
These leaks regarding regarding the next macbooks & mb pros seem to be turning up more and more frequently. Makes me wonder if the timeframe aspect of this story isn't the least accurate part of it (hopefully). Seems plausible that there may still be an announcement in the coming weeks. Even if they don't ship for another few weeks after.
If Apple waits until just after the pre-college buying spree to announce this new line then there are going to be a fair number of angry new laptop owners.
1) H.264: now that this codec seems to be running the table (or at least penetrating) on everything from next-gen DVDs, to iChat, to youtube, iMovie, and Steve would LOVE to give flash even more of a performance disadvantage, now would be the time to embraceH.264 in hardware.
2) Could "grand central" be something that requires hardware?
3) By hiring another firm to design a chip in your chipset, you probably have a tough time convincing them to make it an exclusive, since there are such economies of scale. However, if apple really does own the chip design and just outsources the manufacture, they can really keep it for themselves, meaning (a) you can't build a clone, and (b) you benefit from whatever the hell this key ingredient does and none of your competition can have exactly that.
Maybe Apple could do something along the lines of Toshiba's Qosmio G55? It sure would be nice to have a Cell as co-processor. Should be even easier for Apple to code for since the Cell is part of the PowerPC family that Apple is familiar with. With all that additional horsepower onboard that can be used for graphics among other things, people could stop whining about how Macs suck at gaming. Throw in some seriously fast h.264 encoding/decoding using the Cell and we'd have a winner.
...If Apple waits until just after the pre-college buying spree to announce this new line then there are going to be a fair number of angry new laptop owners.
right here. i'm gonna have to setlle for the one that will be outdated next month.
1) H.264: now that this codec seems to be running the table (or at least penetrating) on everything from next-gen DVDs, to iChat, to youtube, iMovie, and Steve would LOVE to give flash even more of a performance disadvantage, now would be the time to embraceH.264 in hardware.
Montevina already has support for this built in. I don't see Apple going out of their way to incorporate another system if what is available already works.
Quote:
2) Could "grand central" be something that requires hardware?
I think GC is all coding, but OpenCL may need a controller chip to aggregate GPU and CPU cycles as one.
Quote:
3) By hiring another firm to design a chip in your chipset, you probably have a tough time convincing them to make it an exclusive, since there are such economies of scale. However, if apple really does own the chip design and just outsources the manufacture, they can really keep it for themselves, meaning (a) you can't build a clone, and (b) you benefit from whatever the hell this key ingredient does and none of your competition can have exactly that.
As previously stated, I think this is the key to it all. Apple can't litigate every time a clone pops up so they have to out-tech them in order to stay ahead.. and this means HW authentication.
right here. i'm gonna have to setlle for the one that will be outdated next month.
I don't know about you, buddy, but I went to an Apple store last week and bought myself a shiny new MacBook Pro. The damn thing is a screamer! It runs all my games wonderfully, let's me work with video and graphics wonderfully and speedily. Plus it's really, really shiny (the case, not the screen).
If you want a brilliant machine, go out and get what Apple is offering now.
Just because Apple might offer something that greatly outclasses it in a few weeks (or months) doesn't mean that the current hardware is terrible. Take a good long look at what you need in a machine, and what you just want. 99 times out of 100, you'll find that the current lineup fits the bill just fine. And if something newer comes out....just be happy and keep working (and playing) with what you have.
Sometimes I think the whole "I must have the next latest and greatest because it will be so much better than what they have now" thing is pretty ridiculous. \
Comments
Hopefully these will make up for the last two minor speed bumps.
According to AnandTech's preliminary testing of Montevina the performance increase is on par with the other updates, but as usual that comes with a faster MHz rating for the same price as the previous model and much better power usage, which is arguably more important on a notebook.
I can't see what can be so interesting that the chipset is worth redesigning myself, it's functionality is fairly standard...
The only thing I see is a way for Apple to lock the OS to the system with a proprietary chipset.
Custom Apple designed chipsets for product classes that do not exist yet. Come on people; use your brains.
Agreed, they can make very Apple specific features widening the gap over other manufacturers using off the shelf sets while still using the latest CPUs from Intel. This is good news for sure as it means they have something up their sleeves in Cupertino.
It could be something as simple as Apple wanting to support more than 4GB in their pro laptops/iMacs. Shouting about 64-bit doesn't make a whole lot of sense when your hardware only supports 4GB.
Hasn't Apple been designing custom silicon for years with the iPods?
Perhaps Apple are planning on parking the OS on silicon? That could be sweet?
Anyhow.
They did not say they were replacing the main processor (intel) with a new one. They said they would replace other parts of the motherboard, separate chipsets that work along with the main CPU. Best believe apple will continue to use Intel CPU's it keeps them in the game speed wise and on the same upgrade pace (if they want) as their competitors. What I would guess, and they already do it, is that they would use alternitives for USB, FIrewire, bluetooth, video card, wifi, and like some said here, 3G.
There are more chips on the board than just the CPU, it will be ok. In fact it might just get better. DO you really think that apple hasn't learned from the past. The way it's looking they have only shown a glimpse of how much they learned. Apple is the future of mainstream computing.
A couple things. 1. as long as there system speed remain on par with windows systems (easy) and 2. as long as it (a mac) can run windows natively (for the time being (5 years)) than don't worry about it.
I know the difference between a CPU and a chipset. My point was that the more custom chips you have, the more risk you're at for manufacturing and supply delays, bugs, etc., that affect only you.
This could be good, but it's also a very high-risk move if true.
Actually, it's lower risk since you control the process yourself and have more options for suppliers. And it means that you are less likely to be affected by problems that affect everyone else.
Intel and HDD manufacturers have such options on the market that use SSD for fast booting and laoding of apps, but so far the results have been less than stellar.
Eventually people will realise that SSDs, as they stand today, are by and large slower than HDDs. The future might fix that.
I'm still picturing some kind of specialized high-performance SSD controller where the SSD contains key components of the OS and other software. But, I'm not overly aware of what chipsets are currently available for that type of application to speculate further. I could easily envision some kind of near instant-on and loading of apps scenario.
SSD drives are not even near exceeding the capacity of SATA.
Personally, I don't see a point in replacing the chipset. Those are very complex now, and even in Apple's volumes, I don't see being near competitive in price and performance combined, versus an off the shelf chipset. I really don't think the chipsets are the weak link.
Something i see more likely happening is maybe something like a coprocessor that takes a PCIe lane. I mean, an H.264 encoder or decoder would only need a PCIe lane and likely can encode or decode in better than real time without hogging the CPU or consuming nearly as much power. If it's two PCIe lanes, then you can handle uncompressed HD going in and out at the same time.
DUDDDEEE i cannot wait 6-8 weeks. i was riding on the late july-early august refresh. if i buy one now, (or this weekend) how long do i have to return it? does anyone know. will i even be able to return it for the new one?
I agree...why would they wait this long? And how would these awesome new products affect Q3 margins if they don't come out until the end of September? I think they have to come out in August.
I didn't explain myself well. Other vendors use and can use the 'other' non-Intel chipsets.
Not on the mobile platform though. They haven't licensed their mobile sockets since VIA used its license to introduce a socket 479 version of their C7 CPU.
Is anyone else rolling their eyes and saying "here we go again?" Apple tried going their own way for years, and mostly what they got out of it was being slower than the competition and having serious supply constraints. If this article is true, I wouldn't want to be long on Apple.
Hardly, for the majority of the time they were faster. Towards the end mind they were utter crap.But that was Motorola's fault.
If Apple waits until just after the pre-college buying spree to announce this new line then there are going to be a fair number of angry new laptop owners.
2) Could "grand central" be something that requires hardware?
3) By hiring another firm to design a chip in your chipset, you probably have a tough time convincing them to make it an exclusive, since there are such economies of scale. However, if apple really does own the chip design and just outsources the manufacture, they can really keep it for themselves, meaning (a) you can't build a clone, and (b) you benefit from whatever the hell this key ingredient does and none of your competition can have exactly that.
...If Apple waits until just after the pre-college buying spree to announce this new line then there are going to be a fair number of angry new laptop owners.
right here. i'm gonna have to setlle for the one that will be outdated next month.
1) H.264: now that this codec seems to be running the table (or at least penetrating) on everything from next-gen DVDs, to iChat, to youtube, iMovie, and Steve would LOVE to give flash even more of a performance disadvantage, now would be the time to embraceH.264 in hardware.
Montevina already has support for this built in. I don't see Apple going out of their way to incorporate another system if what is available already works.
2) Could "grand central" be something that requires hardware?
I think GC is all coding, but OpenCL may need a controller chip to aggregate GPU and CPU cycles as one.
3) By hiring another firm to design a chip in your chipset, you probably have a tough time convincing them to make it an exclusive, since there are such economies of scale. However, if apple really does own the chip design and just outsources the manufacture, they can really keep it for themselves, meaning (a) you can't build a clone, and (b) you benefit from whatever the hell this key ingredient does and none of your competition can have exactly that.
As previously stated, I think this is the key to it all. Apple can't litigate every time a clone pops up so they have to out-tech them in order to stay ahead.. and this means HW authentication.
right here. i'm gonna have to setlle for the one that will be outdated next month.
I don't know about you, buddy, but I went to an Apple store last week and bought myself a shiny new MacBook Pro. The damn thing is a screamer! It runs all my games wonderfully, let's me work with video and graphics wonderfully and speedily. Plus it's really, really shiny (the case, not the screen).
If you want a brilliant machine, go out and get what Apple is offering now.
Just because Apple might offer something that greatly outclasses it in a few weeks (or months) doesn't mean that the current hardware is terrible. Take a good long look at what you need in a machine, and what you just want. 99 times out of 100, you'll find that the current lineup fits the bill just fine. And if something newer comes out....just be happy and keep working (and playing) with what you have.
Sometimes I think the whole "I must have the next latest and greatest because it will be so much better than what they have now" thing is pretty ridiculous.