That's not saying much - the PSP and DS came out over 3 years ago, and the primary aspect of the Touch/iPhone is media and phone aspects - the fact that it can do games is a nice bonus.
Besides, I don't see Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony running over to get an iPhone SDK. They have their own IP, and Nintendo is king of selling great 1st party SW, and that's what sells the DS. Sony has MGS, GT, Wipeout, MLB, Ratchet and Clank, MS has Halo and GoW. Both Sony and MS have FF now too.
I could see a lot of 3rd party stuff, like EA and Sega, Ubisoft, Eidos, and EA knows they can print money with Madden.
It isn't a question as to whether or not the iPhone is more powerful than a PSP or a DS. That's irrelevant (look at how the Wii is wiping the floor with the XBox360 and PS3 if you don't believe me.) Other considerations are far more important. First, real games require real buttons. Tilt and swipe may be a cute distraction, but it doesn't get it done for anything but solitaire or soduku. Ask any real gamer. But, more importantly, just which is a parent going to buy for their 8 to 13 year old (check your demographics, that's where the millions of units/quarter sales go. Not to 25 year old techies), a $129 DS (which, in case you've missed it, already has WiFi, microphone, and a touch screen), a $199 PSP (with WiFi, music, and movies), or a $2400 iPhone (counting the contract commitment, and, yes, those are REAL DOLLARS you MUST PAY to use the iPhone)?
You are comparing apples to oranges, no pun intended. Just buy the kid a damn ipod touch. Bang, no more contract fees. I do agree there is a lack of button or input, but the mobile gaming market is huge. Who doesn't have a cell phone now days. I believe the cell phone market smokes any gaming market.
That's not saying much - the PSP and DS came out over 3 years ago, and the primary aspect of the Touch/iPhone is media and phone aspects - the fact that it can do games is a nice bonus.
Besides, I don't see Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony running over to get an iPhone SDK. They have their own IP, and Nintendo is king of selling great 1st party SW, and that's what sells the DS. Sony has MGS, GT, Wipeout, MLB, Ratchet and Clank, MS has Halo and GoW. Both Sony and MS have FF now too.
I could see a lot of 3rd party stuff, like EA and Sega, Ubisoft, Eidos, and EA knows they can print money with Madden.
Your missing the point entirely. Those big title games cost shit loads of money to create and launch, not to mention cost the gamer a pretty penny as well. The average soccer mom with a cell phone can buy Enigmo from her damn phone for 10 bucks. Not only is there a larger market here but it is more affordable to create titles and purchase them. This is a win win. Most of the damn games bought now days are still from the parents pocket books. Don't even try to say the disposable income of the teenager working at Dominos keeps these afloat.
DS / PSP / iPhone & iTouch are almost orthogonal to each other. They each have their own strengths and reason for being. Which one a person gets depends on what they want. I didn't notice any networked games for iPhone, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to do so compared to the handheld game systems. I think some stuff really does need tactile buttons. A lot of input to simulate buttons require covering part of the screen to do so as well.
DS / PSP / iPhone & iTouch are almost orthogonal to each other. They each have their own strengths and reason for being. Which one a person gets depends on what they want. I didn't notice any networked games for iPhone, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to do so compared to the handheld game systems. I think some stuff really does need tactile buttons. A lot of input to simulate buttons require covering part of the screen to do so as well.
Networked games would be nice. It would be nice if games could use the WiFi or Bluetooth to make some really cool network interaction like with the DS and PSP, but we can't even send vCards via bluetooth yet (though you can send them via email with an App Store app).
Another aspect of networked game play that would be great and set the iPhone apart from other smartphones and portal game device would be WANed games. Similar to the way Scrabulous/Scrabble works on FaceBook—and all the other games such games for the past decade plus—where a player takes a turn and then the next player takes a turn after the web app shows the move made my the last player. With Adobe Flash this can be done in real time, but most of these games only need an update after a player has moved. Since Apple's 3rd-party app push services will be implemented I *REALLY* hope the developers are forward thinking enough to add WAN game play features. Plus, this system would allow you have multiple games going at once.
For example, imagine playing Risk on your iPhone with 4 of your friends over the course of a few days. Or, playing Battleship with a friend across the country. Or, how about the newly released Scrabble for the iTunes App Store -AND- for FaceBook could work together so people playing on the Flash version could play against people on their iPhone. After all, they are both created for Hasbro by Electronic Arts. Or Chess or Checkers or anyone of these fun games that don't require more than a few bytes to update the the board and aren't time sensitive.
Note: One hiccup is that Apple's notification service may not be robust enough to interact with the app directly to have user moves sent. In this case, the game developer will require their own servers that the app polls when you access the game again after getting the push notification saying that it's your turn.
Get this guy some Kool-Aid so he can see were he is wrong.
What is wrong with Apple?
He is right about this.
I remember, over the years, Apple coming out with numerous initiatives for gaming, only to let them languish. Remember Gamesprockets? That was a big push from Apple, and developers had high hopes. But then Apple did nothing, until they discounted it. Nothing even remotely similar came out for OS X.
Also, I'm sure we can remember the push for gaming at the Macworld's for several years. That looked good, and the developers I spoke to were enthused. They also sold a lot of product there. Then Apple suddenly discontinued the gaming section of the shows.
Apple hasn't ever included a truly high end gaming card in their line-up. Why not?
It isn't a question as to whether or not the iPhone is more powerful than a PSP or a DS. That's irrelevant (look at how the Wii is wiping the floor with the XBox360 and PS3 if you don't believe me.) Other considerations are far more important. First, real games require real buttons. Tilt and swipe may be a cute distraction, but it doesn't get it done for anything but solitaire or soduku. Ask any real gamer. But, more importantly, just which is a parent going to buy for their 8 to 13 year old (check your demographics, that's where the millions of units/quarter sales go. Not to 25 year old techies), a $129 DS (which, in case you've missed it, already has WiFi, microphone, and a touch screen), a $199 PSP (with WiFi, music, and movies), or a $2400 iPhone (counting the contract commitment, and, yes, those are REAL DOLLARS you MUST PAY to use the iPhone)?
Since most parents now buy their kiddies cells with plans that are around what you are talking about, and the iPhone costs about what the gaming machines cost once you subtract the phone and other capabilities the gaming machines don't have, I don't see the problems.
Besides, I don't know where you get your numbers from, but my daughter, and her friends, all of whom are between 16 and 20 have DS's, and many have PSP's as well, as well as Wii's, and either 360's and PS3's.
I don't see the iPhone as being such an expensive alternative, because you are purposefully ignoring the reality here.
Also, games, so far at least, for the iPhone are far less expensive than the ones for any of the other platforms, mobile, or otherwise. And that can mean a lot of money over the course of a year.
In addition, your obsession with buttons also ignores the reality that the major game developers who have already done games for the iPhone, don't find such a limitation. we might also in the future, see some sort of plug-in attachment that could offer those buttons, if people really think they are needed.
Also, I'm sure we can remember the push for gaming at the Macworld's for several years. That looked good, and the developers I spoke to were enthused.
The iPhone SDK keynote this year mostly focused on 3rd-party games. I'm not a "gamer" by any stretch of the word but even I took that with a grain of salt. The pessimist in me was saying this is what Apple want to show what is capable on the iPhone in term of showy graphic, but not what they will support in the long term.
Will Apple take OS X iPhone gamin seriously and then use the new found popularity of Macs to make Mac gaming something users and developers alike will be interested in?
I remember, over the years, Apple coming out with numerous intiatives for gaming, only to let them languish. Remember Gamesprockets? That was a big push from Apple, and developers had high hopes. But then Apple did npthing, until the discounted it. Nothing even remotely similar came out for OS X.
Also, I'm sure we can remember the push for gaming at the Macworld's for several years. That looked good, and the developers I spoke to were enthused. They also sold a lot of product there. Then Apple suddenly discontinued the gaming section of the shows.
Apple hasn't ever included a truly high end gaming card in their line-up. Why not?
There's a lot more.
It seems like apple gaming died when MS bought Bungie, because I can still remember those kick a demos they had. Carmack isn't the only one mad about apple and gaming even Gabe Newell has said stuff before. I am tired of having to run windows just to play games on my mac pro so apple needs to step it up and bring these guys on board so they can pull people from windows machines.
The iPhone SDK keynote this year mostly focused on 3rd-party games. I'm not a "gamer" by any stretch of the word but even I took that with a grain of salt. The pessimist in me was saying this is what Apple want to show what is capable on the iPhone in term of showy graphic, but not what they will support in the long term.
Will Apple take OS X iPhone gamin seriously and then use the new found popularity of Macs to make Mac gaming something users and developers alike will be interested in?
Really, who knows?
But the one advantage to the iPhone/iTouch, as opposed to the Mac, is that it is a much simpler, and unified platform.
Apple doesn't have to contend with comparisons to PC gaming cards, or special-built machines such as the Alien, or Voodoo.
The platform stands by itself. Right now, as Carmack has said, the competition is behind in power, and possibly, in ergonomics as well. The iPhone also has a far more powerful OS, and development system.
Now, some may contend that a lot of the OS has nothing to do with gaming, and conveys no advantage, but I disagree. Major games on the iPhone could be more like computer games that mobile games, when the ability to use a keyboard for input is realized, as well as other higher end offerings.
The software has just come out, and people are expecting major game developments already!
If Apple sells as many phones as they expect, the numbers will begin to rival the other mobile platforms in a couple of years. It could take that long to see where this is really going, though I hope not.
It seems like apple gaming died when MS bought Bungie, because I can still remember those kick a demos they had. Carmack isn't the only one mad about apple and gaming even Gabe Newell has said stuff before. I am tired of having to run windows just to play games on my mac pro so apple needs to step it up and bring these guys on board so they can pull people from windows machines.
I've known a lot of people over the years who bought PC's ONLY because of the gaming.
Apple could have had a larger marketshare if they encouraged games, rather than pretending to, or being defensive about it.
I don't see why they can;t offer a higher end graphics card for the iMac, for example. They did it before, even though it wasn't the best.
They could even have a model with an area where a card could be removed and added.
They could also do what MS has done, and buy some major gaming company. they certainly could afford it!
Your posts aren't quite Haikus, but there's some similar kind of underlaying rigid syllable structure isn't there?
I would have to call console games noob gamers. They get frustrated with service packs and drivers so they poor there cash into a console hoping to make their lives easier. Plan and simple, you compare any console gamer to a pc gamer and the pc gamer wins hands down. Has anyone ever tried play a console game on pc servers? I have it was Quake 3 on dreamcast. There was no contest, and that was WITH using a mouse and keyboard on the dreamcast. If only Xbox 360 would actually use those usb ports to their full functionality.
I think this is an overly consumeristic argument. New stuff is nice, but it's generally pretty wasteful. The thing that changes more than anything else is the cost and capacity of the memory. A three year old device is usually plenty good for a task, a bigger card than what was available or affordable can breathe new life into that device.
We are talking about gamers here. You don't want to breathe new life into your mobile gaming devices. You don't want your three year old mobile gaming device so you can keep buying flash cards forever. As soon as there's a new DS, PSP, etc the gamer will rush out and buy it. So if we consider that these devices will only last as long as there's not a new game device in town, you would be better off having some kind of huge ass flash disk inside the gaming device already (like the iPod touch has!). This of course makes the hardware more expensive, but really, buying flash cards generally sucks for gamers. What you want is a built in roomy hard drive like the 360 or the PS3 have. In this aspect, the iPhone/iPod touch solves a problem for gamers so there's great gaming potential for Apple's latest and greatest.
I would have to call console games noob gamers. They get frustrated with service packs and drivers so they poor there cash into a console hoping to make their lives easier. Plan and simple, you compare any console gamer to a pc gamer and the pc gamer wins hands down. Has anyone ever tried play a console game on pc servers? I have it was Quake 3 on dreamcast. There was no contest, and that was WITH using a mouse and keyboard on the dreamcast. If only Xbox 360 would actually use those usb ports to their full functionality.
Nobody wins or loses here. It's not like that at all. Each has its advantages, and disadvantages.
Plenty of "noobs" play computer games only. One thing has nothing to do with the other, except apparently, from what I can see from your post, some PC gamers are feeling superior about themselves, undeservedly so.
We are talking about gamers here. You don't want to breathe new life into your mobile gaming devices. You don't want your three year old mobile gaming device so you can keep buying flash cards forever. As soon as there's a new DS, PSP, etc the gamer will rush out and buy it. So if we consider that these devices will only last as long as there's not a new game device in town, you would be better off having some kind of huge ass flash disk inside the gaming device already (like the iPod touch has!). This of course makes the hardware more expensive, but really, buying flash cards generally sucks for gamers. What you want is a built in roomy hard drive like the 360 or the PS3 have. In this aspect, the iPhone/iPod touch solves a problem for gamers so there's great gaming potential for Apple's latest and greatest.
The flash media simply adds to the cost of the game. Even if the media costs the manufacturer a few bucks, they are going to double, or triple that price at retail. That's one reason why the games for the DS cost what they do, and why games for the iPod can be so cheap, though we'll see what Carmack will be charging.
We are talking about gamers here. You don't want to breathe new life into your mobile gaming devices. You don't want your three year old mobile gaming device so you can keep buying flash cards forever. As soon as there's a new DS, PSP, etc the gamer will rush out and buy it.
Again, with the early adopters. A game platform is usually still a viable market with new games for a couple years after it's been replaced with a newer model. Not many buy a new platform right away, the peak is usually a while after the initial introduction.
I remember, over the years, Apple coming out with numerous initiatives for gaming, only to let them languish. Remember Gamesprockets? That was a big push from Apple, and developers had high hopes. But then Apple did nothing, until they discounted it. Nothing even remotely similar came out for OS X.
Also, I'm sure we can remember the push for gaming at the Macworld's for several years. That looked good, and the developers I spoke to were enthused. They also sold a lot of product there. Then Apple suddenly discontinued the gaming section of the shows.
Apple hasn't ever included a truly high end gaming card in their line-up. Why not?
There's a lot more.
Mel, I was being Sarcastic. I have been taking lessons from sapporobaby evidently. Sorry about that.
I agree, Steve doesn't get it when it comes to gaming.
The flash media simply adds to the cost of the game. Even if the media costs the manufacturer a few bucks, they are going to double, or triple that price at retail. That's one reason why the games for the DS cost what they do, and why games for the iPod can be so cheap, though we'll see what Carmack will be charging.
They don't need to add profit margins onto the media as they make the money on the game. It's different selling flash media on its own for consumer use. It is added cost though.
I wish Sony had sold their games on flash for the PSP. UMD was just awful. Noisy drives, slow load times, much bigger compared to DS cartridges.
The download model has limitations.
It prevents game resale - quite good for the seller of course as Valve discovered when they locked down resale of CD-Keys.
If the servers go down or you lose your internet connection, you don't get any software - games or otherwise. Whereas I could easily go to a local store and buy a game sold on other media.
If your connection is slow, big games won't be popular and how do you reinstall them after a device reset?
The advantages are that you aren't limited to local store selection.
You should get the games cheaper as there is no packaging and physical distribution costs.
And if they manage to get the games under 500MB like classic games from the PSP online store then you can get pretty good quality games and the download should only take about 30 minutes.
Since you'd only have 3-4 big games max at a time, you could easily fit those onto an 8GB ipod/iphone.
In the case of the iphone, I think that the online method is a good way to do things. I still think it would have been better allowing apps to be distributed outside of itunes but Sony didn't do this either and I still used their service.
I think the iphone would excel more at adventure games and RPGs like Final Fantasy. Action games don't work so well with touch - I personally found Super Monkey Ball more frustrating than challenging. I miss games like Escape from Monkey island, Broken Sword and Discworld. You can actually play some of these with ScummVM for unlocked iphones/ipods but I've played those games years ago.
Companies like Microids and the Adventure Company would do well to get in on this market:
These games were around 1GB in size but they had a lot of cut scene that could use better compression nowadays. Game like this are perfect with a touch screen and better for say flights and train journeys as you have to get involved in the game and think about what you're doing. It's like an interactive book.
Comments
Real gamers use alienware sli??
pc gaming?
are u kidding me??
Dude, PLEASE. While PC gaming is on the fall, it is WAY better than console gaming.
Hey Lukaz, would you mind editing this so that I don't look like a gamer dood who dropped out of school in 6th grade?
Besides, I don't see Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony running over to get an iPhone SDK. They have their own IP, and Nintendo is king of selling great 1st party SW, and that's what sells the DS. Sony has MGS, GT, Wipeout, MLB, Ratchet and Clank, MS has Halo and GoW. Both Sony and MS have FF now too.
I could see a lot of 3rd party stuff, like EA and Sega, Ubisoft, Eidos, and EA knows they can print money with Madden.
It isn't a question as to whether or not the iPhone is more powerful than a PSP or a DS. That's irrelevant (look at how the Wii is wiping the floor with the XBox360 and PS3 if you don't believe me.) Other considerations are far more important. First, real games require real buttons. Tilt and swipe may be a cute distraction, but it doesn't get it done for anything but solitaire or soduku. Ask any real gamer. But, more importantly, just which is a parent going to buy for their 8 to 13 year old (check your demographics, that's where the millions of units/quarter sales go. Not to 25 year old techies), a $129 DS (which, in case you've missed it, already has WiFi, microphone, and a touch screen), a $199 PSP (with WiFi, music, and movies), or a $2400 iPhone (counting the contract commitment, and, yes, those are REAL DOLLARS you MUST PAY to use the iPhone)?
You are comparing apples to oranges, no pun intended. Just buy the kid a damn ipod touch. Bang, no more contract fees. I do agree there is a lack of button or input, but the mobile gaming market is huge. Who doesn't have a cell phone now days. I believe the cell phone market smokes any gaming market.
That's not saying much - the PSP and DS came out over 3 years ago, and the primary aspect of the Touch/iPhone is media and phone aspects - the fact that it can do games is a nice bonus.
Besides, I don't see Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony running over to get an iPhone SDK. They have their own IP, and Nintendo is king of selling great 1st party SW, and that's what sells the DS. Sony has MGS, GT, Wipeout, MLB, Ratchet and Clank, MS has Halo and GoW. Both Sony and MS have FF now too.
I could see a lot of 3rd party stuff, like EA and Sega, Ubisoft, Eidos, and EA knows they can print money with Madden.
Your missing the point entirely. Those big title games cost shit loads of money to create and launch, not to mention cost the gamer a pretty penny as well. The average soccer mom with a cell phone can buy Enigmo from her damn phone for 10 bucks. Not only is there a larger market here but it is more affordable to create titles and purchase them. This is a win win. Most of the damn games bought now days are still from the parents pocket books. Don't even try to say the disposable income of the teenager working at Dominos keeps these afloat.
DS / PSP / iPhone & iTouch are almost orthogonal to each other. They each have their own strengths and reason for being. Which one a person gets depends on what they want. I didn't notice any networked games for iPhone, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to do so compared to the handheld game systems. I think some stuff really does need tactile buttons. A lot of input to simulate buttons require covering part of the screen to do so as well.
Networked games would be nice. It would be nice if games could use the WiFi or Bluetooth to make some really cool network interaction like with the DS and PSP, but we can't even send vCards via bluetooth yet (though you can send them via email with an App Store app).
Another aspect of networked game play that would be great and set the iPhone apart from other smartphones and portal game device would be WANed games. Similar to the way Scrabulous/Scrabble works on FaceBook—and all the other games such games for the past decade plus—where a player takes a turn and then the next player takes a turn after the web app shows the move made my the last player. With Adobe Flash this can be done in real time, but most of these games only need an update after a player has moved. Since Apple's 3rd-party app push services will be implemented I *REALLY* hope the developers are forward thinking enough to add WAN game play features. Plus, this system would allow you have multiple games going at once.
For example, imagine playing Risk on your iPhone with 4 of your friends over the course of a few days. Or, playing Battleship with a friend across the country. Or, how about the newly released Scrabble for the iTunes App Store -AND- for FaceBook could work together so people playing on the Flash version could play against people on their iPhone. After all, they are both created for Hasbro by Electronic Arts. Or Chess or Checkers or anyone of these fun games that don't require more than a few bytes to update the the board and aren't time sensitive.
Note: One hiccup is that Apple's notification service may not be robust enough to interact with the app directly to have user moves sent. In this case, the game developer will require their own servers that the app polls when you access the game again after getting the push notification saying that it's your turn.
Get this guy some Kool-Aid so he can see were he is wrong.
What is wrong with Apple?
He is right about this.
I remember, over the years, Apple coming out with numerous initiatives for gaming, only to let them languish. Remember Gamesprockets? That was a big push from Apple, and developers had high hopes. But then Apple did nothing, until they discounted it. Nothing even remotely similar came out for OS X.
Also, I'm sure we can remember the push for gaming at the Macworld's for several years. That looked good, and the developers I spoke to were enthused. They also sold a lot of product there. Then Apple suddenly discontinued the gaming section of the shows.
Apple hasn't ever included a truly high end gaming card in their line-up. Why not?
There's a lot more.
It isn't a question as to whether or not the iPhone is more powerful than a PSP or a DS. That's irrelevant (look at how the Wii is wiping the floor with the XBox360 and PS3 if you don't believe me.) Other considerations are far more important. First, real games require real buttons. Tilt and swipe may be a cute distraction, but it doesn't get it done for anything but solitaire or soduku. Ask any real gamer. But, more importantly, just which is a parent going to buy for their 8 to 13 year old (check your demographics, that's where the millions of units/quarter sales go. Not to 25 year old techies), a $129 DS (which, in case you've missed it, already has WiFi, microphone, and a touch screen), a $199 PSP (with WiFi, music, and movies), or a $2400 iPhone (counting the contract commitment, and, yes, those are REAL DOLLARS you MUST PAY to use the iPhone)?
Since most parents now buy their kiddies cells with plans that are around what you are talking about, and the iPhone costs about what the gaming machines cost once you subtract the phone and other capabilities the gaming machines don't have, I don't see the problems.
Besides, I don't know where you get your numbers from, but my daughter, and her friends, all of whom are between 16 and 20 have DS's, and many have PSP's as well, as well as Wii's, and either 360's and PS3's.
I don't see the iPhone as being such an expensive alternative, because you are purposefully ignoring the reality here.
Also, games, so far at least, for the iPhone are far less expensive than the ones for any of the other platforms, mobile, or otherwise. And that can mean a lot of money over the course of a year.
In addition, your obsession with buttons also ignores the reality that the major game developers who have already done games for the iPhone, don't find such a limitation. we might also in the future, see some sort of plug-in attachment that could offer those buttons, if people really think they are needed.
Also, I'm sure we can remember the push for gaming at the Macworld's for several years. That looked good, and the developers I spoke to were enthused.
The iPhone SDK keynote this year mostly focused on 3rd-party games. I'm not a "gamer" by any stretch of the word but even I took that with a grain of salt. The pessimist in me was saying this is what Apple want to show what is capable on the iPhone in term of showy graphic, but not what they will support in the long term.
Will Apple take OS X iPhone gamin seriously and then use the new found popularity of Macs to make Mac gaming something users and developers alike will be interested in?
He is right about this.
I remember, over the years, Apple coming out with numerous intiatives for gaming, only to let them languish. Remember Gamesprockets? That was a big push from Apple, and developers had high hopes. But then Apple did npthing, until the discounted it. Nothing even remotely similar came out for OS X.
Also, I'm sure we can remember the push for gaming at the Macworld's for several years. That looked good, and the developers I spoke to were enthused. They also sold a lot of product there. Then Apple suddenly discontinued the gaming section of the shows.
Apple hasn't ever included a truly high end gaming card in their line-up. Why not?
There's a lot more.
It seems like apple gaming died when MS bought Bungie, because I can still remember those kick a demos they had. Carmack isn't the only one mad about apple and gaming even Gabe Newell has said stuff before. I am tired of having to run windows just to play games on my mac pro so apple needs to step it up and bring these guys on board so they can pull people from windows machines.
The iPhone SDK keynote this year mostly focused on 3rd-party games. I'm not a "gamer" by any stretch of the word but even I took that with a grain of salt. The pessimist in me was saying this is what Apple want to show what is capable on the iPhone in term of showy graphic, but not what they will support in the long term.
Will Apple take OS X iPhone gamin seriously and then use the new found popularity of Macs to make Mac gaming something users and developers alike will be interested in?
Really, who knows?
But the one advantage to the iPhone/iTouch, as opposed to the Mac, is that it is a much simpler, and unified platform.
Apple doesn't have to contend with comparisons to PC gaming cards, or special-built machines such as the Alien, or Voodoo.
The platform stands by itself. Right now, as Carmack has said, the competition is behind in power, and possibly, in ergonomics as well. The iPhone also has a far more powerful OS, and development system.
Now, some may contend that a lot of the OS has nothing to do with gaming, and conveys no advantage, but I disagree. Major games on the iPhone could be more like computer games that mobile games, when the ability to use a keyboard for input is realized, as well as other higher end offerings.
The software has just come out, and people are expecting major game developments already!
If Apple sells as many phones as they expect, the numbers will begin to rival the other mobile platforms in a couple of years. It could take that long to see where this is really going, though I hope not.
It seems like apple gaming died when MS bought Bungie, because I can still remember those kick a demos they had. Carmack isn't the only one mad about apple and gaming even Gabe Newell has said stuff before. I am tired of having to run windows just to play games on my mac pro so apple needs to step it up and bring these guys on board so they can pull people from windows machines.
I've known a lot of people over the years who bought PC's ONLY because of the gaming.
Apple could have had a larger marketshare if they encouraged games, rather than pretending to, or being defensive about it.
I don't see why they can;t offer a higher end graphics card for the iMac, for example. They did it before, even though it wasn't the best.
They could even have a model with an area where a card could be removed and added.
They could also do what MS has done, and buy some major gaming company. they certainly could afford it!
Your posts aren't quite Haikus, but there's some similar kind of underlaying rigid syllable structure isn't there?
I would have to call console games noob gamers. They get frustrated with service packs and drivers so they poor there cash into a console hoping to make their lives easier. Plan and simple, you compare any console gamer to a pc gamer and the pc gamer wins hands down. Has anyone ever tried play a console game on pc servers? I have it was Quake 3 on dreamcast. There was no contest, and that was WITH using a mouse and keyboard on the dreamcast. If only Xbox 360 would actually use those usb ports to their full functionality.
I think this is an overly consumeristic argument. New stuff is nice, but it's generally pretty wasteful. The thing that changes more than anything else is the cost and capacity of the memory. A three year old device is usually plenty good for a task, a bigger card than what was available or affordable can breathe new life into that device.
We are talking about gamers here. You don't want to breathe new life into your mobile gaming devices. You don't want your three year old mobile gaming device so you can keep buying flash cards forever. As soon as there's a new DS, PSP, etc the gamer will rush out and buy it. So if we consider that these devices will only last as long as there's not a new game device in town, you would be better off having some kind of huge ass flash disk inside the gaming device already (like the iPod touch has!). This of course makes the hardware more expensive, but really, buying flash cards generally sucks for gamers. What you want is a built in roomy hard drive like the 360 or the PS3 have. In this aspect, the iPhone/iPod touch solves a problem for gamers so there's great gaming potential for Apple's latest and greatest.
I would have to call console games noob gamers. They get frustrated with service packs and drivers so they poor there cash into a console hoping to make their lives easier. Plan and simple, you compare any console gamer to a pc gamer and the pc gamer wins hands down. Has anyone ever tried play a console game on pc servers? I have it was Quake 3 on dreamcast. There was no contest, and that was WITH using a mouse and keyboard on the dreamcast. If only Xbox 360 would actually use those usb ports to their full functionality.
Nobody wins or loses here. It's not like that at all. Each has its advantages, and disadvantages.
Plenty of "noobs" play computer games only. One thing has nothing to do with the other, except apparently, from what I can see from your post, some PC gamers are feeling superior about themselves, undeservedly so.
We are talking about gamers here. You don't want to breathe new life into your mobile gaming devices. You don't want your three year old mobile gaming device so you can keep buying flash cards forever. As soon as there's a new DS, PSP, etc the gamer will rush out and buy it. So if we consider that these devices will only last as long as there's not a new game device in town, you would be better off having some kind of huge ass flash disk inside the gaming device already (like the iPod touch has!). This of course makes the hardware more expensive, but really, buying flash cards generally sucks for gamers. What you want is a built in roomy hard drive like the 360 or the PS3 have. In this aspect, the iPhone/iPod touch solves a problem for gamers so there's great gaming potential for Apple's latest and greatest.
The flash media simply adds to the cost of the game. Even if the media costs the manufacturer a few bucks, they are going to double, or triple that price at retail. That's one reason why the games for the DS cost what they do, and why games for the iPod can be so cheap, though we'll see what Carmack will be charging.
I didn't say it wasn't more cost efficient - I'm just saying what usually happens.
Maybe with the early adopter types.
We are talking about gamers here. You don't want to breathe new life into your mobile gaming devices. You don't want your three year old mobile gaming device so you can keep buying flash cards forever. As soon as there's a new DS, PSP, etc the gamer will rush out and buy it.
Again, with the early adopters. A game platform is usually still a viable market with new games for a couple years after it's been replaced with a newer model. Not many buy a new platform right away, the peak is usually a while after the initial introduction.
He is right about this.
I remember, over the years, Apple coming out with numerous initiatives for gaming, only to let them languish. Remember Gamesprockets? That was a big push from Apple, and developers had high hopes. But then Apple did nothing, until they discounted it. Nothing even remotely similar came out for OS X.
Also, I'm sure we can remember the push for gaming at the Macworld's for several years. That looked good, and the developers I spoke to were enthused. They also sold a lot of product there. Then Apple suddenly discontinued the gaming section of the shows.
Apple hasn't ever included a truly high end gaming card in their line-up. Why not?
There's a lot more.
Mel, I was being Sarcastic.
I agree, Steve doesn't get it when it comes to gaming.
The flash media simply adds to the cost of the game. Even if the media costs the manufacturer a few bucks, they are going to double, or triple that price at retail. That's one reason why the games for the DS cost what they do, and why games for the iPod can be so cheap, though we'll see what Carmack will be charging.
They don't need to add profit margins onto the media as they make the money on the game. It's different selling flash media on its own for consumer use. It is added cost though.
I wish Sony had sold their games on flash for the PSP. UMD was just awful. Noisy drives, slow load times, much bigger compared to DS cartridges.
The download model has limitations.
It prevents game resale - quite good for the seller of course as Valve discovered when they locked down resale of CD-Keys.
If the servers go down or you lose your internet connection, you don't get any software - games or otherwise. Whereas I could easily go to a local store and buy a game sold on other media.
If your connection is slow, big games won't be popular and how do you reinstall them after a device reset?
The advantages are that you aren't limited to local store selection.
You should get the games cheaper as there is no packaging and physical distribution costs.
And if they manage to get the games under 500MB like classic games from the PSP online store then you can get pretty good quality games and the download should only take about 30 minutes.
Since you'd only have 3-4 big games max at a time, you could easily fit those onto an 8GB ipod/iphone.
In the case of the iphone, I think that the online method is a good way to do things. I still think it would have been better allowing apps to be distributed outside of itunes but Sony didn't do this either and I still used their service.
I think the iphone would excel more at adventure games and RPGs like Final Fantasy. Action games don't work so well with touch - I personally found Super Monkey Ball more frustrating than challenging. I miss games like Escape from Monkey island, Broken Sword and Discworld. You can actually play some of these with ScummVM for unlocked iphones/ipods but I've played those games years ago.
Companies like Microids and the Adventure Company would do well to get in on this market:
http://www.microids.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivdz0IsTGc8 < excellent game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTP_rLch_qw < gameplay
http://www.dreamcatchergames.com/
These games were around 1GB in size but they had a lot of cut scene that could use better compression nowadays. Game like this are perfect with a touch screen and better for say flights and train journeys as you have to get involved in the game and think about what you're doing. It's like an interactive book.