Microsoft 10K warns of iPhone, Mac threats as iPhone nears 1.1% share

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  • Reply 81 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by penchanted View Post


    That's one way of looking at it. But a more telling indication is looking at the growth rate of the stock.



    Since Jan 6, 1995, MSFT has gone from 3.775 to 25.44 for increase of 674% while AAPL has gone from 10.50 to 156.66 for an increase of 1492%.



    Over the past year MSFT has gone from 29.54 to 25.44 for a negative growth -13.9% while AAPL has increased from 132.90 to 156.6 for an increase of almost 118%. Seems to me that the market is looking away from MSFT in terms of future opportunities.







    Aside from what Solipsism has pointed out in terms of comparing comparable products, you still overlook that your 89.45% market share is a contraction from their previous market share. Much like the market cap, Microsoft's market share is also in atrophy.



    What I would really like to know is what compels someone like you to come to a Mac-related forum and register with a provocative username in a pitiful attempt to stir up senseless BS. And, if you must do so, you had at least be able to make more compelling arguments than "neener, neener,neener, mine is bigger than yours". You cannot even acknowledge that Apple has made significant strides as evidenced in the links I posted above which show Apple even making headway in the enterprise market (not to mention you got it completely wrong about "Yes, Apple OSX is great but name one bank, large corporation or Auto Dealership that uses Macs."



    Another way to look at it is; who makes more money every quarter every year.



    Microsoft Return on Investment

    Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 46.68%



    Apple Return on Investment

    Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 22.83%



    Sorry for the double quote but my stats were questioned.

    You can twist the numbers any way you want to. Microsoft has always dominated Apple.



    Besides that year Apple came out with the Newton. That was a great year for Apple.

    Then this year with Apple TV (about as popular as Zune).



    Let's not forget Panther with it's Vista like problems.



    Gee. I'm sorry for being honest but Yes Apple is an innovator but because of their arrogance they will never see the potential they could be. This only gives the compition to Copy their innovatioins and put them out for the 80x% of the people running Windows.
  • Reply 82 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Good questions... I think they will actually go down in the not so distant future regardless of my personal wishes to see them go. This loosely based on the concept of the bigger they are the harder they fall lol. The personal desire is based on the history (mine and theirs ).



    I have far less fear of a monopolistic Apple as long as SJ is around simply because I don't think he is driven to compete in the normal sense. He is driven to create 'insanely great stuff' for its own sake. After SJ you might have a point and Apple may become another lumbering giant. However I would expect others to fill a void left my MS or even parts of MS would most likely split off a rotting carcass and possible survive and do well. So hopefully Apple will be kept on their toes so to speak.



    They did build OS X to finally gain the UNIX stamp of approval, it is bundled with Apache, PHP, etc.. and the browsers installed don't lock you out of any other browser. This is all because of the lessons learned by M$.

    Without competition, would Apple's vertically integrated line-up look monopolistic? Would they squash the small guy, or buy them out of existence? I say yes. Without competition, everyone gets greedy.
  • Reply 83 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MakesSense2Me View Post


    Do they give new employees free lobotomies? Do they put stupid pills in the coffee every morning?



    Nicely said.



    I think it's the bloated corporate culture.....
  • Reply 84 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by technohermit View Post


    They did build OS X to finally gain the UNIX stamp of approval, it is bundled with Apache, PHP, etc.. and the browsers installed don't lock you out of any other browser. This is all because of the lessons learned by M$.

    Without competition, would Apple's vertically integrated line-up look monopolistic? Would they squash the small guy, or buy them out of existence? I say yes. Without competition, everyone gets greedy.



    You are basing the sole success of Apple on the one Guy that saved it from square boxes and terrible designs.



    Bill Gates has moved on to more important matters like "helping people" and Microsoft will continue to do great things and make the same mistakes as Apple (With Steve at the Relm).



    Apple was nothing without Steve and he makes sure everyday that he has the last word on every part of Apple.



    When your stock can takes a dive because the CEO is ill you have to be worried that anyone at Apple can be as arrogant as Steve to pull it off.



    The days of Square boxes and Zune designs come back into play when Steve leaves Apple. They can't think for themselves. They have listened to the Great Steve for so long they wouldn't know how to clock in each morning without him.
  • Reply 85 of 115
    hosshoss Posts: 69member
    GM has a much larger market share than Rolls Royce.

    Wal-Mart has a much larger market share than Bloomingdale's........but
  • Reply 86 of 115
    guarthoguartho Posts: 1,208member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post


    Microsoft Return on Investment

    Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 46.68%



    Apple Return on Investment

    Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 22.83%



    I'm not sure what those numbers represent, but they don't seem to have anything to do with the value of my Apple stock. My Apple stock has grown approximately 500% since I purchased it.
  • Reply 87 of 115
    physguyphysguy Posts: 920member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post


    Another way to look at it is; who makes more money every quarter every year.



    Microsoft Return on Investment

    Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 46.68%



    Apple Return on Investment

    Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 22.83%



    Sorry for the double quote but my stats were questioned.

    You can twist the numbers any way you want to. Microsoft has always dominated Apple.



    Besides that year Apple came out with the Newton. That was a great year for Apple.

    Then this year with Apple TV (about as popular as Zune).



    Let's not forget Panther with it's Vista like problems.



    Gee. I'm sorry for being honest but Yes Apple is an innovator but because of their arrogance they will never see the potential they could be. This only gives the compition to Copy their innovatioins and put them out for the 80x% of the people running Windows.



    Please stop feeding the trolls. Here are the real numbers for Dec 31, 2007 for both companies straight from the 10Qs.



    paid-in capital (PIC) is the total cash into the company by investors so that the ROE is investor focussed not use of current capital which is much more industry dependent - hardware being more capital intensive that software.



    In billions as of Dec 31, 2007



    Microsoft



    Paid-in Capital (PIC) - 62.5

    Market Cap - 326

    1Q net income - 4.7

    ROE for 1Q'08 - 7.5%

    MktCap/PIC - 5.2



    Apple



    Paid-in Capital (PIC) - 6.05

    Market Cap - 175

    1Q net income - 1.58

    ROE of 1Q'08 - 26%

    MktCap/PIC - 29



    Add to this that over the last 4 years (Dec 31, 2003 - Dec 31, 2007)



    apple share price increase = 934%

    msft share price increase = - 6% (a decrease and note this is despite significant share repurchases)



    MS used to do things like this but that is way in the past.
  • Reply 88 of 115
    inkswampinkswamp Posts: 337member
    Quote:

    Microsoft intends to fight back primarily by working more closely with third-party PC builders to create a more Mac-like union between hardware and software



    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAAAAA...



    ... gasp...



    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA....
  • Reply 89 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by physguy View Post


    Please stop feeding the trolls. Here are the real numbers for Dec 31, 2007 for both companies straight from the 10Qs.



    paid-in capital (PIC) is the total cash into the company by investors so that the ROE is investor focussed not use of current capital which is much more industry dependent - hardware being more capital intensive that software.



    In billions as of Dec 31, 2007



    Microsoft



    Paid-in Capital (PIC) - 62.5

    Market Cap - 326

    1Q net income - 4.7

    ROE for 1Q'08 - 7.5%

    MktCap/PIC - 5.2



    Apple



    Paid-in Capital (PIC) - 6.05

    Market Cap - 175

    1Q net income - 1.58

    ROE of 1Q'08 - 26%

    MktCap/PIC - 29



    Add to this that over the last 4 years (Dec 31, 2003 - Dec 31, 2007)



    apple share price increase = 934%

    msft share price increase = - 6% (a decrease and note this is despite significant share repurchases)



    MS used to do things like this but that is way in the past.



    Stop using bold or colors even though it's an option here. The admin says it's not allowed and considered TROLLING, especially when you say something negative against Apple. Steve is God. Long live the Savior, worship him.



    That last reply sounds like sheep, follow the heard.
  • Reply 90 of 115
    brendonbrendon Posts: 642member
    If MS falls it will be at their own hands, they are too big and entrenched for anyone but themselves to take out. Apple may be a reason for caution, but really if they are worried about a company that may have 6% market share then they are really paranoid. But now if looking at Apple and iPod and the Wii and now PS3 then I think there is a trend. But that trend is countered MSs' enterprise and server software. Face it the only real thing for MS to fear is mismanagement, and that is not something they would want to call out in a 10K report. Chorus!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    (edited quote)



    This time I beg to differ oh wise one . Since the early 1980's I have dreamed of the day



  • Reply 91 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post


    Stop using bold or colors even though it's an option here. The admin says it's not allowed and considered TROLLING, especially when you say something negative against Apple. Steve is God. Long live the Savior, worship him.



    That last reply sounds like sheep, follow the heard.



    Why not just reply to the quote, rather than be a dick-head about it
  • Reply 92 of 115
    bootsboots Posts: 33member
    Mr. mis-spelled user name,



    You want facts ?



    Microsoft representatives have made specific reference to Apple's competitive threat, in a venue where they previously have not.



    Have any friends at Microsoft? When you have time could you ask them why they felt they needed to bring this up ?



    Remember, it's not in dispute that the comments about competitive threat were made as part of the 10-K, the only question remaining is what assessments they made before making the statement that they made. Do you believe that your personal assessments are better than the ones made by MS staff ?



    Oh and here's five years worth of data in one easy to read chart:



    http://tinyurl.com/msft-vs-aapl-5yr
  • Reply 93 of 115
    I see all this dialog with a "Wid Nows Guy", but I'm too ignorant to know what a Wid Nows guy is. What's a Wid Nows? Can they think for themselves? Can they spell? Have they graduated from the third grade?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post


    The day 25% of people use Mac will be 10 years after Microsoft get's out of the OS & Software Market.



    Apple has a VERY small market share and FanBoy's giggle when you gain .001% over 30 Years.



    Yes, Apple OSX is great but name one bank, large corporation or Auto Dealership that uses Macs.

    90% of Business is done on PC's that run Windows. By default most home users buy the same thing so they can work at home.



    Since Microsoft has given in to the fact that people like a better user experience it will only nibble on the pathetic % of users that run Mac's.



    Even Graphic's software is being released on PC's first. That's because even Graphic houses are converting to PC's.



    Apple has the Market on 1 item. IPOD

    1% of the phone market with the competion quickly learning what an end user wants.



    Get real here. As long as the Microsoft corporation exists they will rule the PC OS software Market.



  • Reply 94 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post


    ... 90% of Business is done on PC's that run Windows. By default most home users buy the same thing so they can work at home ...



    And I'm willing to bet most of these people who work at home do it for free, because the companies they work for just aren't making enough money to hire enough people to get the job done and guilt employees into doing whatever it takes to get the job done.



    Probably spending that money on I.T. Departments to keep their Windows infrastructures running. Hey, Bill Gates didn't become the world's richest man by saving people money. He put in motion a corporation that kept squeezing money out of others with a false promise of computer efficiencies. So why are people working harder and longer for less nowadays?



    It's really a sad day when American corporations dictate what your computer experience in your own home will be just for the sake of ensuring they can squeeze more unpaid overtime out of you.
  • Reply 95 of 115
    davidwdavidw Posts: 1,687member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post


    OK you're right...

    With XP, Vista and Win 2000 they only own 89.45% of the total OS market.



    And that's with Vista being a complete failure.



    Go Steve Go!!!!!!!!! We love you so, so much. Loves & Kisses FanBoy







    Once again PC guys never see the big picture. It doesn't matter how much of the OS market MS own today or yesterday. What matters is how much of the OS market you can keep in the future.



    MS makes very little money on Windows 95, 98, 2000 or XP users as long as they stay with those OS. (and I won't even go into how much MS makes on businesses that aren't planning to upgrade to Vista. Ever!.) The biggest money comes when these old MS OS users, in the future, upgrade to Vista (or Windows 7). In the old days, over 98% of older MS OS users would upgrade to another MS OS (When it comes time to upgrade.). Thus MS had no problem maintaining their over 95% market share. But that's not true today. Only about 90% of these users are upgrading to Vista (when it comes time to upgrade.). (That's including the idiots that buy Vista so that they can downgrade to XP.)



    This downward trend for MS OS has been going on for over 5 years now. And with Vista being a flop, there's no reversal in sight. This is why MS is trying to get Windows 7 out early. The numbers are in and PC users don't want Vista. MS knows that the longer it takes for an old MS OS user to upgrade, the better chance Apple has in converting that user to OSX. In the mean time MS is planning to barrage the consumers with commericails pointing out the advantages of Vista over OSX. (a ten second spot would be more than enough time for this ) Now MS had ran commericals before. But back then they were trying to get old MS users to upgrade to the new OS. Now they're trying to keep their old OS users from upgrading to Apple OSX.



    But I have no doubt that MS will retain a dominate OS market share for years to come. It may only be 75%. But still a dominate market share. After all, PC boys seems to enjoy swallowing whatever Monkey Boy Steve shove down their throats. And if it means going out and buying a new PC, which they didn't need in the first place, just so that they can run the lastest so-so OS from MS, the PC idiots will gladly swallow if it makes Monkey Boy Steve happy



    Only in the bizarre world of PC is Vista being a flop (after 7 years and billions of dollars in the making) but MS still has 90% of the OS market share, some how something to shout about.
  • Reply 96 of 115
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jasonfj View Post


    I've been working in the industry for 20 years in both the US and UK and in my experience very few design or production companies run PCs. There's an aesthetic that such companies appreciate and value over cost.



    ...add that from the almost 150 photogs and design/production houses that I work with are RETURNING to Mac in droves, and tossing their PCs, including those of the secretaries and assorted admin service departments. This after switching to Windows in the late 90's, when it appeared that Apple was going to tank. OK, all you FanBoyz can kick us for not staying loyal, but this is and always will be about business, getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work. Just like a carpenter, a mechanic, or even a bank. Use the tool(s) that are best for the job. Apple wins hands down in the design industry.
  • Reply 97 of 115
    robmrobm Posts: 1,068member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


    ...add that from the almost 150 photogs and design/production houses that I work with are RETURNING to Mac in droves, and tossing their PCs, including those of the secretaries and assorted admin service departments. This after switching to Windows in the late 90's, when it appeared that Apple was going to tank. OK, all you FanBoyz can kick us for not staying loyal, but this is and always will be about business, getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work. Just like a carpenter, a mechanic, or even a bank. Use the tool(s) that are best for the job. Apple wins hands down in the design industry.



    Absolutely true - this is what happened. In fact I'll even say that it was true of the motion graphics sector prior to the Intel change - so as recently as 3 years ago. And in many ways it's still true with most of the developers of real time broadcast titling and playback still only developing for pc.



    A dedicated Winbox wiped a Mac's butt up down and sideways back then. I said dedicated ... like I posted earlier a box for 1 job only running only what was necessary to do the job, never on the net.



    All Widnows Guy is doing is spouting either irrelevant facts and figures or spreading bull pucky. (I had typed FUD but the term isn't appropriate round here - at least not from him.)

    Maybe he's Squirter? lol

    (I don't know why we're wasting our breath).
  • Reply 98 of 115
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post


    Gee. I'm sorry for being honest but Yes Apple is an innovator but because of their arrogance they will never see the potential they could be. This only gives the compition to Copy their innovatioins and put them out for the 80x% of the people running Windows.



    Yeah, and those who built the Titanic said it is unsinkable.



    What goes around, come around. This is what happens when you use dirty tactics to force compitition out. This time, MS will suffer more than their victims because the compitition are not doing anything illegal and they cannot do anything about it. In my opinion, Apple is not the only one MS need to worry about.
  • Reply 99 of 115
    philipmphilipm Posts: 240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zunx View Post


    The day 25% of people use a Mac, Windows will be history in three years. Windows is maintained solely on inertia and user ignorance. Someone at Redmod must be nervous. Microsoft, do the Humanity a favor and get out of business! Let the technology evolve once and for all. Get lost! You have demonstrated that are pathetic. You are not worth it!



    I'm in an office for a few weeks where the equipment is Windows XP. One app needed the proxy set up, and it took me a few hours to figure out that I had to copy the settings from Internet Explorer not from a global system setting, and then from settings for the "LAN" buried a few layers deep. Why, I ask you with tears in my voice, is this (a) not a global system setting and (b) a LAN setting?



    (I found the information eventually from a help page from the app in question, not from anything on the system or on the M$ site.)



    Back to iPhone vs. M$ discussion...
  • Reply 100 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zunx View Post


    The day 25% of people use a Mac, Windows will be history in three years. Windows is maintained solely on inertia and user ignorance. Someone at Redmod must be nervous. Microsoft, do the Humanity a favor and get out of business! Let the technology evolve once and for all. Get lost! You have demonstrated that are pathetic. You are not worth it!





    Great point. Nine years ago when I first started using computers I thought Windows was THE operating system.

    Linux, huh? Mac OS X, huh?

    Didn't know about any alternatives and I'm sure that until the "Hi I'm a Mac..." commercials popped up a few years ago, millions of people were in the same category.

    It's a new day
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