Since Jan 6, 1995, MSFT has gone from 3.775 to 25.44 for increase of 674% while AAPL has gone from 10.50 to 156.66 for an increase of 1492%.
Over the past year MSFT has gone from 29.54 to 25.44 for a negative growth -13.9% while AAPL has increased from 132.90 to 156.6 for an increase of almost 118%. Seems to me that the market is looking away from MSFT in terms of future opportunities.
Dude... you need a serious review on how to calculate percentages!!!
Dude... you need a serious review on how to calculate percentages!!!
Thanks, I forgot to back the base out of my calculations I really should have caught that when comparing the 118% v -13.9%). But I think the main point that Apple's stock has demonstrated much better performance over Microsoft's remains intact.
I will fix it in my original post to avoid future confusion.
I'm in an office for a few weeks where the equipment is Windows XP. One app needed the proxy set up, and it took me a few hours to figure out that I had to copy the settings from Internet Explorer not from a global system setting, and then from settings for the "LAN" buried a few layers deep. Why, I ask you with tears in my voice, is this (a) not a global system setting and (b) a LAN setting?
(I found the information eventually from a help page from the app in question, not from anything on the system or on the M$ site.)
Back to iPhone vs. M$ discussion...
You do know you can have a proxy given out to all computers via group policy right? Here on my windows 2k3 and winxp network not single setting is done machine by machine. Everything is done through group policy.
I also think that the users of this site saying that microsoft is dying is false. I think that if microsoft starts copying apple then apple could be in big trouble.
If microsoft starts putting out its own pc's then apple could have competition on their hands. Microsoft has always put out decent if not great hardware. Heck i still have the microsoft mn-700 router that at the time was better then a lot of the competing brands.
Also the zune was a great device and it wasnt because of the horrible hardware that it didnt sell (i think my zune actually has better sound quality then my ipod touch).
Microsofts problem is their advertising . Plain and simple. I think microsoft is in a better position then apple sites and fans tend to beleive .Come on if vista is considered a failure then thats pretty darn good.
I think apple should be pretty worried. Have you actually seen any of the research that microsoft has been doing on the hardware side . like surface and the new display tech?
...company CEO Steve Ballmer has already made clear in a leaked internal memo not just that Apple is a threat but also that Microsoft intends to fight back primarily by working more closely with third-party PC builders to create a more Mac-like union between hardware and software.
They could start by abandoning the expensive and lengthy WHQL certification program and switch to something truly revolutionary.
Unless the environment is truly seamless they still won't scratch the surface of the success Apple has as a result of its integrated architecture.
...and then Apple will be slammed by the SEC & EU's anti-trust laws. While I am no expert, Apple's high profit margins, limited selection, & integrated software(product bundling) would clearly (if Apple controlled most of the market) resemble price-rigging & product bundling: prohibited anti-competitive practices. While I would certainly love to see the day Apple controls the whole computer market and Microsoft withers away, Apple certainly needs to change a few of its policies. First, they'd need to widen their product selection, lower prices, start charging for some of their integrated software (I know we all hate this idea, but maybe have 2 OS X flavors), & allow other companies to install OS X on their computers (another dreaded idea). Yes, they would have to open up and allow OS X to be installed on other makes of computers...we must admit that Apple's integration of hardware and software would be monopolistic and unobtainable should they gain the overwhelming majority of the market share.
In other words...for Apple to control the market, they'd loose what we love most about our beloved Apple. They'd need to become a (not completely) different company.
Your assumptions and logic are flawed. There's nothing illegal about having a vertically integrated business. Period. No matter what size it is. You are confusing what you want Apple to do with what the government requires. Even having a monopoly isn't illegal, especially when you get there via organic growth and not acquisitions.
Thanks, I forgot to back the base out of my calculations I really should have caught that when comparing the 118% v -13.9%). But I think the main point that Apple's stock has demonstrated much better performance over Microsoft's remains intact.
I will fix it in my original post to avoid future confusion.
Frankly, it was quite obvious that you meant 18% (and not 118%) by just eyeballing the data you provided, so no big deal to someone like me.....
...Microsoft has always put out decent if not great hardware. Heck i still have the microsoft mn-700 router that at the time was better then a lot of the competing brands.
I had their mn-500 router which was the 802.11b only version of the mn-700. Not a bad peice of hardware at the time, but support for the device left much to be desired.
I had the microsoft sidewinder game voice. It was great for counterstrike. Now, you can't even get a driver for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981
...Microsofts problem is their advertising . Plain and simple. ..
I disagree. In my opinion, Microsoft's biggest problem is a lack of care. They don't love their products enough to only release the best software, and the best hardware. In my opinion everything that Microsoft makes leaves much more to be desired than everything that Apple makes.
They have had issues with compatibility within their own product lines. (remember Zune didn't even work on Vista at first?)
They are constantly creating new versions of their hardware products, leaving older products in the lurch without support.
They create new software products to take the place of older products, but fail to integrate the features of the older products into the newer ones. (Image Composer, PhotoDraw both had some useful features that are still not found in any other microsoft product to date)
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981
...I think apple should be pretty worried. Have you actually seen any of the research that microsoft has been doing on the hardware side . like surface and the new display tech?..
Microsoft is too busy trying to re-invent the wheel (or reverse-engineer it) that they're not innovating. No new tech has been released from Microsoft since Xbox 360. And there's nothing innovative about that either. It's just a more powerful computer in a smaller box. That was expected. They should do something unexpected, the way Apple does.
They should direct their focus on actually releasing any new technology that hasn't been seen before on the grand scale, the way Apple did with the iPhone and its touch-sensitive glass screen.
...company CEO Steve Ballmer has already made clear in a leaked internal memo not just that Apple is a threat but also that Microsoft intends to fight back primarily by working more closely with third-party PC builders to create a more Mac-like union between hardware and software.
The only way this is going to happen is if the third party hardware is a Mac.
And this is not so far fetch as one might think. It's easy to imagine Apple OSX being 25% of the OS market. But when you consider that in order for this to happen, Apple must also own 25% of the computer hardware market. Right now HP and Dell each own about 15% to 18% of the computer hardware market. (not sure if this includes business PCs'.) So Apple owning 25% of the hardware market would be a very difficult goal to reach. I can see Apple getting to about 15% on thier own.
At this point Apple can do one of two things. Allow lincensed Mac clones. This would increase their OS market share. But at the same time it may decrease their hardware market share. And hardware is where Apple makes the most money. The other thing Apple can do is to allow MS to optimize a Mac version of Windows. This would increase Mac sales and at the same time increase OSX presence in the market. As every Mac sold will stilll have OSX installed. Working with MS to optimize a version Windows for Macs would almost create a win-win deal. MS is primarily a software company and won't be losing any market share to Apple OSX. And Apple is primarily a hardware company and gets to sell more Macs to Window users looking for an Apple-like experience.
So imagine this day. In the not so distant future. It's the WWCD. Rumours of a special surpise guest on alll the Apple news sites. Jobs finishes up his keynote and say "and one more thing". Lights dim. Curtains open to reveal a giant Apple logo with the MS color flag imbedded in it. Then the music starts and Steve Balmer entertains the Apple crowd with the long version of a "Monkey Dance". And at the end, Balmer steps up to the podium and yell "I LOVE THIS COMPANY". Jobs then announces an agreement with MS to license an optimized version of Windows for Macs'. And he also announce that Apple will continue to support the two most popular programs on Windoes, iTunes and Safari. Plus, Apple willl be buying 1 billion dollars worth of MS stocks. All of this in an effort to show Apples' support for the financially troubled company.
Don't laugh. How many people here thought they would never see the day when a Mac would run on an Intel processor.
...add that from the almost 150 photogs and design/production houses that I work with are RETURNING to Mac in droves, and tossing their PCs, including those of the secretaries and assorted admin service departments. This after switching to Windows in the late 90's, when it appeared that Apple was going to tank. OK, all you FanBoyz can kick us for not staying loyal, but this is and always will be about business, getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work. Just like a carpenter, a mechanic, or even a bank. Use the tool(s) that are best for the job. Apple wins hands down in the design industry.
now - i'm tempted to kick you for your lack of loyalty, but i think your self-inflicted punishment in having moved to windows is enough. i'm curious however why you abandoned your concept of 'getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work, etc' at the time you made the decision to switch to windows in the first place? what did that switch cost you in productivity? i'm curious how that experience went over all. in 20 years in the design industry i've never seen anyone willingly go from the mac to windows...
The only way this is going to happen is if the third party hardware is a Mac.
SNIP
So imagine this day. In the not so distant future. It's the WWCD. Rumours of a special surpise guest on alll the Apple news sites. Jobs finishes up his keynote and say "and one more thing". Lights dim. Curtains open to reveal a giant Apple logo with the MS color flag imbedded in it. Then the music starts and Steve Balmer entertains the Apple crowd with the long version of a "Monkey Dance". And at the end, Balmer steps up to the podium and yell "I LOVE THIS COMPANY".
SNIP
Don't laugh. How many people here thought they would never see the day when a Mac would run on an Intel processor.
at which point the developers developers developers developers get caught up in the frenzy, pick up their chairs and throw them at the stage...
It is funny, but I remember the CEO of McDonald's on the company's turnaround saying something like "...we had a think tank that came up with the idea of making good food for a reasonable price. We are trying that out and it is working...", not really his quote, but that was the jist. And MS just came to the similar conclusion that if they make a software that works, people will buy it.
Vista to me is like Windows ME, if any of you had the displeasure of using that POS before Win2K was released. They had to release something so they did, but instead of making people happy, they released Vista, a Win 7 beta that should have never been. If you've d/led Win7, you can see that the beta is stronger, faster, and just overall what they wanted Vista to be.
The point of all that is that the Mac is no longer a competitive tool to Windows in my eyes, it is outright competition to Dell, HP, Asus, Acer, and the like. MS can make all the software they want to compete with OS X, but in the end you can run them both on your Apple computer. Apple has found out that hardware that is compatible with everything will indeed sell more. Smart thinking, for a hardware company.
Comments
Since Jan 6, 1995, MSFT has gone from 3.775 to 25.44 for increase of 674% while AAPL has gone from 10.50 to 156.66 for an increase of 1492%.
Over the past year MSFT has gone from 29.54 to 25.44 for a negative growth -13.9% while AAPL has increased from 132.90 to 156.6 for an increase of almost 118%. Seems to me that the market is looking away from MSFT in terms of future opportunities.
Dude... you need a serious review on how to calculate percentages!!!
Dude... you need a serious review on how to calculate percentages!!!
Thanks, I forgot to back the base out of my calculations I really should have caught that when comparing the 118% v -13.9%). But I think the main point that Apple's stock has demonstrated much better performance over Microsoft's remains intact.
I will fix it in my original post to avoid future confusion.
I'm in an office for a few weeks where the equipment is Windows XP. One app needed the proxy set up, and it took me a few hours to figure out that I had to copy the settings from Internet Explorer not from a global system setting, and then from settings for the "LAN" buried a few layers deep. Why, I ask you with tears in my voice, is this (a) not a global system setting and (b) a LAN setting?
(I found the information eventually from a help page from the app in question, not from anything on the system or on the M$ site.)
Back to iPhone vs. M$ discussion...
You do know you can have a proxy given out to all computers via group policy right? Here on my windows 2k3 and winxp network not single setting is done machine by machine. Everything is done through group policy.
I also think that the users of this site saying that microsoft is dying is false. I think that if microsoft starts copying apple then apple could be in big trouble.
If microsoft starts putting out its own pc's then apple could have competition on their hands. Microsoft has always put out decent if not great hardware. Heck i still have the microsoft mn-700 router that at the time was better then a lot of the competing brands.
Also the zune was a great device and it wasnt because of the horrible hardware that it didnt sell (i think my zune actually has better sound quality then my ipod touch).
Microsofts problem is their advertising . Plain and simple. I think microsoft is in a better position then apple sites and fans tend to beleive .Come on if vista is considered a failure then thats pretty darn good.
I think apple should be pretty worried. Have you actually seen any of the research that microsoft has been doing on the hardware side . like surface and the new display tech?
...company CEO Steve Ballmer has already made clear in a leaked internal memo not just that Apple is a threat but also that Microsoft intends to fight back primarily by working more closely with third-party PC builders to create a more Mac-like union between hardware and software.
They could start by abandoning the expensive and lengthy WHQL certification program and switch to something truly revolutionary.
Unless the environment is truly seamless they still won't scratch the surface of the success Apple has as a result of its integrated architecture.
...and then Apple will be slammed by the SEC & EU's anti-trust laws. While I am no expert, Apple's high profit margins, limited selection, & integrated software(product bundling) would clearly (if Apple controlled most of the market) resemble price-rigging & product bundling: prohibited anti-competitive practices. While I would certainly love to see the day Apple controls the whole computer market and Microsoft withers away, Apple certainly needs to change a few of its policies. First, they'd need to widen their product selection, lower prices, start charging for some of their integrated software (I know we all hate this idea, but maybe have 2 OS X flavors), & allow other companies to install OS X on their computers (another dreaded idea). Yes, they would have to open up and allow OS X to be installed on other makes of computers...we must admit that Apple's integration of hardware and software would be monopolistic and unobtainable should they gain the overwhelming majority of the market share.
In other words...for Apple to control the market, they'd loose what we love most about our beloved Apple. They'd need to become a (not completely) different company.
Your assumptions and logic are flawed. There's nothing illegal about having a vertically integrated business. Period. No matter what size it is. You are confusing what you want Apple to do with what the government requires. Even having a monopoly isn't illegal, especially when you get there via organic growth and not acquisitions.
Thanks, I forgot to back the base out of my calculations I really should have caught that when comparing the 118% v -13.9%). But I think the main point that Apple's stock has demonstrated much better performance over Microsoft's remains intact.
I will fix it in my original post to avoid future confusion.
Frankly, it was quite obvious that you meant 18% (and not 118%) by just eyeballing the data you provided, so no big deal to someone like me.....
...Microsoft has always put out decent if not great hardware. Heck i still have the microsoft mn-700 router that at the time was better then a lot of the competing brands.
I had their mn-500 router which was the 802.11b only version of the mn-700. Not a bad peice of hardware at the time, but support for the device left much to be desired.
I had the microsoft sidewinder game voice. It was great for counterstrike. Now, you can't even get a driver for it.
...Microsofts problem is their advertising . Plain and simple. ..
I disagree. In my opinion, Microsoft's biggest problem is a lack of care. They don't love their products enough to only release the best software, and the best hardware. In my opinion everything that Microsoft makes leaves much more to be desired than everything that Apple makes.
...I think apple should be pretty worried. Have you actually seen any of the research that microsoft has been doing on the hardware side . like surface and the new display tech?..
Yeah laser displays and touch sensitive mice. Nothing that Apple should be worried about. http://research.microsoft.com/hardware/
Microsoft is too busy trying to re-invent the wheel (or reverse-engineer it) that they're not innovating. No new tech has been released from Microsoft since Xbox 360. And there's nothing innovative about that either. It's just a more powerful computer in a smaller box. That was expected. They should do something unexpected, the way Apple does.
They should direct their focus on actually releasing any new technology that hasn't been seen before on the grand scale, the way Apple did with the iPhone and its touch-sensitive glass screen.
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
...company CEO Steve Ballmer has already made clear in a leaked internal memo not just that Apple is a threat but also that Microsoft intends to fight back primarily by working more closely with third-party PC builders to create a more Mac-like union between hardware and software.
The only way this is going to happen is if the third party hardware is a Mac.
And this is not so far fetch as one might think. It's easy to imagine Apple OSX being 25% of the OS market. But when you consider that in order for this to happen, Apple must also own 25% of the computer hardware market. Right now HP and Dell each own about 15% to 18% of the computer hardware market. (not sure if this includes business PCs'.) So Apple owning 25% of the hardware market would be a very difficult goal to reach. I can see Apple getting to about 15% on thier own.
At this point Apple can do one of two things. Allow lincensed Mac clones. This would increase their OS market share. But at the same time it may decrease their hardware market share. And hardware is where Apple makes the most money. The other thing Apple can do is to allow MS to optimize a Mac version of Windows. This would increase Mac sales and at the same time increase OSX presence in the market. As every Mac sold will stilll have OSX installed. Working with MS to optimize a version Windows for Macs would almost create a win-win deal. MS is primarily a software company and won't be losing any market share to Apple OSX. And Apple is primarily a hardware company and gets to sell more Macs to Window users looking for an Apple-like experience.
So imagine this day. In the not so distant future. It's the WWCD. Rumours of a special surpise guest on alll the Apple news sites. Jobs finishes up his keynote and say "and one more thing". Lights dim. Curtains open to reveal a giant Apple logo with the MS color flag imbedded in it. Then the music starts and Steve Balmer entertains the Apple crowd with the long version of a "Monkey Dance". And at the end, Balmer steps up to the podium and yell "I LOVE THIS COMPANY". Jobs then announces an agreement with MS to license an optimized version of Windows for Macs'. And he also announce that Apple will continue to support the two most popular programs on Windoes, iTunes and Safari. Plus, Apple willl be buying 1 billion dollars worth of MS stocks. All of this in an effort to show Apples' support for the financially troubled company.
Don't laugh. How many people here thought they would never see the day when a Mac would run on an Intel processor.
ROFLMAO
Too funnee ...
Anyone else but him ... I mean, you know - he's well, just such a dork.
Microsofts problem is their advertising . Plain and simple.
With Vista, it is the product
It absolutely blows
...add that from the almost 150 photogs and design/production houses that I work with are RETURNING to Mac in droves, and tossing their PCs, including those of the secretaries and assorted admin service departments. This after switching to Windows in the late 90's, when it appeared that Apple was going to tank. OK, all you FanBoyz can kick us for not staying loyal, but this is and always will be about business, getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work. Just like a carpenter, a mechanic, or even a bank. Use the tool(s) that are best for the job. Apple wins hands down in the design industry.
now - i'm tempted to kick you for your lack of loyalty, but i think your self-inflicted punishment in having moved to windows is enough. i'm curious however why you abandoned your concept of 'getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work, etc' at the time you made the decision to switch to windows in the first place? what did that switch cost you in productivity? i'm curious how that experience went over all. in 20 years in the design industry i've never seen anyone willingly go from the mac to windows...
The only way this is going to happen is if the third party hardware is a Mac.
SNIP
So imagine this day. In the not so distant future. It's the WWCD. Rumours of a special surpise guest on alll the Apple news sites. Jobs finishes up his keynote and say "and one more thing". Lights dim. Curtains open to reveal a giant Apple logo with the MS color flag imbedded in it. Then the music starts and Steve Balmer entertains the Apple crowd with the long version of a "Monkey Dance". And at the end, Balmer steps up to the podium and yell "I LOVE THIS COMPANY".
SNIP
Don't laugh. How many people here thought they would never see the day when a Mac would run on an Intel processor.
at which point the developers developers developers developers get caught up in the frenzy, pick up their chairs and throw them at the stage...
With Vista, it is the product
It absolutely blows
It is funny, but I remember the CEO of McDonald's on the company's turnaround saying something like "...we had a think tank that came up with the idea of making good food for a reasonable price. We are trying that out and it is working...", not really his quote, but that was the jist. And MS just came to the similar conclusion that if they make a software that works, people will buy it.
Vista to me is like Windows ME, if any of you had the displeasure of using that POS before Win2K was released. They had to release something so they did, but instead of making people happy, they released Vista, a Win 7 beta that should have never been. If you've d/led Win7, you can see that the beta is stronger, faster, and just overall what they wanted Vista to be.
The point of all that is that the Mac is no longer a competitive tool to Windows in my eyes, it is outright competition to Dell, HP, Asus, Acer, and the like. MS can make all the software they want to compete with OS X, but in the end you can run them both on your Apple computer. Apple has found out that hardware that is compatible with everything will indeed sell more. Smart thinking, for a hardware company.
They could start by abandoning the expensive and lengthy WHQL certification program and switch to something truly revolutionary.
Unless the environment is truly seamless they still won't scratch the surface of the success Apple has as a result of its integrated architecture.
What Steve B doesn't get is that Apple is a 3rd party manufacturer, too. It's too bad, but if they embraced the Mac, they'd sell more Windows.