Apple poised for special event this September

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  • Reply 161 of 311
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    Could a MB or MBP be made with the same material as the clear plastic / lucite on the G4 tower and other towers? I like that material. It always looks new and clean, and it doesn't dent easily. I guess it would be heavier than the existing plastic.



    Isn't the shift from titanium to alumin(i)um a backward movement? I thought titanium was a stronger metal.



    I think it was titanium coated (painted) only- i could be wrong. A friend had one and it would chip/flake off. Was absolutely gorgeous when new. It's in the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art actually.
  • Reply 162 of 311
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    Could a MB or MBP be made with the same material as the clear plastic / lucite on the G4 tower and other towers? I like that material. It always looks new and clean, and it doesn't dent easily. I guess it would be heavier than the existing plastic.



    Isn't the shift from titanium to alumin(i)um a backward movement? I thought titanium was a stronger metal.



    Once upon a time the iBook was clear plastic, painted white on the inside. Some people cleaned off the paint to just have a transparent laptop body.
  • Reply 163 of 311
    aapleaaple Posts: 78member
    Guys, if Apple wants to compete with Asus and these other netbooks, they're going to do it with a 7-9" tablet that runs on OSX Touch and either Atom or something from Apple PA Semi acquisition. It'll be a little more expensive than an eeePC, but way cooler...just like everything Apple does.



    Will it come out this year? Highly doubtful. Will it come? Oh yeah. Just a matter of time. Why create such a great mobile operating system and then not use it for your ultramobile devices? It'd be a waste of R&D dollars to limit it to the iPhone and iPod touch.
  • Reply 164 of 311
    jensonbjensonb Posts: 529member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaple View Post


    Guys, if Apple wants to compete with Asus and these other netbooks, they're going to do it with a 7-9" tablet that runs on OSX Touch and either Atom or something from Apple PA Semi acquisition. It'll be a little more expensive than an eeePC, but way cooler...just like everything Apple does.



    Will it come out this year? Highly doubtful. Will it come? Oh yeah. Just a matter of time. Why create such a great mobile operating system and then not use it for your ultramobile devices? It'd be a waste of R&D dollars to limit it to the iPhone and iPod touch.



    Please god no. Tablets are a redundant, creatively bankrupt solution to a problem which (Still) doesn't exist. A better idea is a small laptop with a multi-touch screen
  • Reply 165 of 311
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    Mac OS X will not turn an under powered sub-notebook into a useable and profitable mini MacBook, nor earn it the popularity that Apple's iPhone/iPod touch mobile WiFi platform already has.



    OS X ran fine on far slower computers.
  • Reply 166 of 311
    wobegonwobegon Posts: 764member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    No need for a sub-par notebook- remember the 12" Powerbook?

    Bring it back as an 11 " please- ports and all.



    The 12" PowerBook G4 was hardly sub-par. It featured a full-size keyboard, DVI-out, 2 USB ports, Firewire 400, an optional SuperDrive, a dedicated video card, RAM expandable to 1.26GB, a decent processor, optional AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth 1.1 standard, and a 40GB HDD. The screen was obviously just a tad too small.



    And how much did it cost?: $1600-$1800.



    Apple isn't going to put out a cramped, under powered sub-notebook. Apple already replaced the 12" PowerBook G4 this past January with the ultra-portable MacBook Air that features a decent processor, decent storage (though it's likely to increase as part of the transition) full-size screen, full-size keyboard, 802.11n and Bluetooth 2.1, and drops the unnecessary internal disc drive in favor of an optional, external SuperDrive that can be connected when needed, in addition to Remote Disc wireless installation of disc-based programs like Adobe's Creative suite.
  • Reply 167 of 311
    wobegonwobegon Posts: 764member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    OS X ran fine on far slower computers.



    I didn't say anything about Mac OS X not running fine on older Macs. I was stating that putting Mac OS X on an under-powered micro laptop with a cramped screen, like 8GB of flash storage, an egregiously slow processor, and a tiny keyboard won't magically make that computer worthwhile or profitable.



    I'm sure Mac OS X could be run on an Eee PC - didn't some people already accomplish that a few months ago? - but Apple has no interest in competing in the profitless netbook market that is not "booming" by any stretch of the imagination.
  • Reply 168 of 311
    jensonbjensonb Posts: 529member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    I didn't say anything about Mac OS X not running fine on older Macs. I was stating that putting Mac OS X on an under-powered micro laptop with a cramped screen, like 8GB of flash storage, an egregiously slow processor, and a tiny keyboard won't magically make that computer worthwhile or profitable.



    I'm sure Mac OS X could be run on an Eee PC - didn't some people already accomplish that a few months ago? - but Apple has no interest in competing in the profitless netbook market that is not "booming" by any stretch of the imagination.



    You're making assumptions which are flagrantly false. I'm suggesting Apple build a premium version of the Eee-class notebook, with the 10 (Or even 11, why not). It doesn't need to be done the way Asus did it. The current offerings aim to be cheap and small, I'm simply suggesting Apple make a truly small notebook, but with their trademark quality. Hence why the price I listed was higher by a considerable margin than the likes of the Eee.



    Incidentally, Apple could, and MSI already have, put a hard drive in such a device.



    Besides which, that market is booming. Sorry, it just is.
  • Reply 169 of 311
    wobegonwobegon Posts: 764member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jensonb View Post


    You're making assumptions which are flagrantly false. I'm suggesting Apple build a premium version of the Eee-class notebook, with the 10 (Or even 11, why not). It doesn't need to be done the way Asus did it. The current offerings aim to be cheap and small, I'm simply suggesting Apple make a truly small notebook, but with their trademark quality. Hence why the price I listed was higher by a considerable margin than the likes of the Eee.



    No offense, but what you are describing is basically a crappy mini MacBook Air. A 10" screen is ridiculously small. The 12" PowerBook's display was already a bit claustrophobic, which is one of the reasons Apple retired it. The case of such a tiny laptop would require serious compromises in keyboard size, processing power, internal storage, graphics, the list goes on. And then you either expect them to charge a premium for it, which would cannibalize the new MacBook Air, or price it low enough to compete with the Eee PC, placing it only a stone's throw from Apple's much more impressive touch-based mobile WiFi platform, the iPhone/iPod touch.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jensonb View Post


    Besides which, that market is booming. Sorry, it just is.



    How is the tiny niche market of hardly useable netbooks "booming?"
  • Reply 170 of 311
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    The 12" PowerBook G4 was hardly sub-par. It featured a full-size keyboard, DVI-out, 2 USB ports, Firewire 400, an optional SuperDrive, a dedicated video card, RAM expandable to 1.26GB, a decent processor, optional AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth 1.1 standard, and a 40GB HDD. The screen was obviously just a tad too small.



    And how much did it cost?: $1600-$1800.



    Apple isn't going to put out a cramped, under powered sub-notebook. Apple already replaced the 12" PowerBook G4 this past January with the ultra-portable MacBook Air that features a decent processor, decent storage (though it's likely to increase as part of the transition) full-size screen, full-size keyboard, 802.11n and Bluetooth 2.1, and drops the unnecessary internal disc drive in favor of an optional, external SuperDrive that can be connected when needed, in addition to Remote Disc wireless installation of disc-based programs like Adobe's Creative suite.



    Not everybody wants a laptop that large nor that missing in features. This was not a replacement for a 12" Powerbook- that was like 3 years ago. There is a larger market for a full feature mini laptop with a smaller form like a Sony Vaio TZ. Trust me - we will get it. A Sony Vaio TZ costs $2,500.-$3,000. I would buy an Apple version any day over the MBA.
  • Reply 171 of 311
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    No offense, but what you are describing is basically a crappy mini MacBook Air. A 10" screen is ridiculously small. The 12" PowerBook's display was already a bit claustrophobic, which is one of the reasons Apple retired it. The case of such a tiny laptop would require serious compromises in keyboard size, processing power, internal storage, graphics, the list goes on. And then you either expect them to charge a premium for it, which would cannibalize the new MacBook Air, or price it low enough to compete with the Eee PC, placing it only a stone's throw from Apple's much more impressive touch-based mobile WiFi platform, the iPhone/iPod touch.



    "



    The 12 Macbook Pro 's screen is riculously small yet the iPhone's isn't- HA!

    It was retired because it got to hot and couldn't get any faster but now we have Intel and it can get much faster, etc. Plus it has ports.
  • Reply 172 of 311
    wobegonwobegon Posts: 764member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Not everybody wants a laptop that large nor that missing in features. This was not a replacement for a 12" Powerbook- that was like 3 years ago. There is a larger market for a full feature mini laptop with a smaller form like a Sony Vaio TZ. Trust me - we will get it. A Sony Vaio TZ costs $2,500.-$3,000. I would buy an Apple version any day over the MBA.



    A laptop that large? Oh yeah, I mean the Air is just ridiculously bulky, right? Those crazy tapered edges and over the top thickness that goes from 0.76" at the thickest to 0.16" at the thinnest.



    The $1900 Sony TZ is in the profitable, premium ultra-light market that Apple's MacBook Air is in, not the budget netbook niche the Eee PC is in, though it's 11" screen and micro keyboard makes it less appealing. Your "full-featured mini laptop" is an oxymoron, but I will admit the TZ is probably the closest example you could have for such a thing, though that's not really a positive.



    While the Air lacks some ports and an internal disc drive, it does have a full-size LED backlit display, full-size keyboard, a much more capable 1.6-1.8GHz processor, 2GB of RAM standard, 80GB HDD, Bluetooth 2.1, 802.11n WiFi, mic, speakers, video-conferencing camera, Multi-Touch trackpad, MagSafe magnetic power connector, magnetic display latch, backlit keys w/ ambient light sensor, DVI out, optional 64GB SSD, and of course, free and valuable iLife apps.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    The 12 Macbook Pro 's screen is riculously small yet the iPhone's isn't- HA!



    For what the iPhone does and the fact that only one application is on the screen at a time, its screen is big enough for the tasks at hand and it does everything very well.



    Meanwhile, the slow, budget Eee PCs and premium-priced, borderline micro laptops from Sony with their tiny screens, keyboards, and similarly low-performance components, are both painful to use in terms of speed and eye+hand strain.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    It was retired because it got to hot and couldn't get any faster but now we have Intel and it can get much faster, etc. Plus it has ports.



    I'm not saying Apple couldn't make a sub-notebook. But if they wanted to, they would have done so rather than putting out the Air. A slower, smaller MacBook or MacBook Air would cannibalize their profitable consumer and high-end laptops, and/or be cannibalized by the much more popular and mobile iPhone/iPod touch WiFi, touch-based devices.
  • Reply 173 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,028member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    Sure, I see what you're saying, but until they do something more radical, like dropping the internal SuperDrive entirely, we aren't going to see major slimming down of the MacBook Pro's 1" thickness. While rounded rectangles are nice, they do feel bulkier. Remember, the original iPhone was a rounded rectangle and was actually a bit thinner at its thickest point than the new iPhone 3G at its thickest point. But the 3G's tapered edges make it feel thinner than the original.



    Another good example of how form-factor can affect the overall feel of something is the MacBook vs. the MacBook Pro. Both are rather similar in terms of design: rounded rectangles. The MacBook is 0.4 lbs. lighter than the 15" MacBook Pro...but which one feels lighter? The MacBook Pro. The Pro spreads out its weight very well, while the MacBook can't, due to its smaller case and what Apple packs into that.



    Tapering the edges may not reduce weight much, if at all, BUT it does spread out the weight better, making it feel lighter. The iPhone 3G feels lighter, the MacBook Air seems so amazingly thin thanks to more than just its weight and central depth, and the fairly new aluminum iMacs look thinner thanks to...a curved back (and the black matte probably doesn't hurt).



    I just don't see any of that.



    Apple could have eliminated at least the quarter inch of the outer edges of the Air's case, and it would have been just as thin.



    What you notice about the iPhone is actually an example in my favor. Apple didn't thin down the outer edges of the 3G, they increased the thickness in the middle.



    The thin edges of the Air are just a talking point, they serve no actual purpose, and as many have noticed, they make the screen look even smaller. They also use more material, and no doubt cost a bit more.



    One thing about the rounded square edges of the computers now, are that they allow you to carry the computer either way up, or even sideways, if that's convenient for some reason. With the Air's edges, that not really possible, as it's much too uncomfortable.
  • Reply 174 of 311
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    I didn't say anything about Mac OS X not running fine on older Macs. I was stating that putting Mac OS X on an under-powered micro laptop with a cramped screen, like 8GB of flash storage, an egregiously slow processor, and a tiny keyboard won't magically make that computer worthwhile or profitable.



    I understand that, but I think you're contradicting yourself on the processor performance, OS X runs fine on much slower Macs, but OS X would be poorly served by today's "underpowered" ULV chips which are actually quite a bit faster than those older Macs and can address bigger memory and the drives are faster now. As it is, I think Apple's current MacBook and even the MBP are even quite a bit over powered, unless you crank up the fan speed, they feel like they're going to burn something, even on idle CPU.



    Exactly what are the true processor needs of a typical notebook user?
  • Reply 175 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,028member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    Could a MB or MBP be made with the same material as the clear plastic / lucite on the G4 tower and other towers? I like that material. It always looks new and clean, and it doesn't dent easily. I guess it would be heavier than the existing plastic.



    Isn't the shift from titanium to alumin(i)um a backward movement? I thought titanium was a stronger metal.



    I thought the Macbooks are polycarbonate.



    Titanium is stronger than aluminum.



    But the tit. shell was much thinner than the aluminum shell, and so the alum. shell is stiffer.



    The Tit. models were not stiff at all, and that was a major problem with them.
  • Reply 176 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,028member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    I think it was titanium coated (painted) only- i could be wrong. A friend had one and it would chip/flake off. Was absolutely gorgeous when new. It's in the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art actually.



    It was stamped titanium. They painted the titanium. Personally, I like the color of raw titanium. it has a very nice warm grey look.
  • Reply 177 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,028member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaple View Post


    Guys, if Apple wants to compete with Asus and these other netbooks, they're going to do it with a 7-9" tablet that runs on OSX Touch and either Atom or something from Apple PA Semi acquisition. It'll be a little more expensive than an eeePC, but way cooler...just like everything Apple does.



    Will it come out this year? Highly doubtful. Will it come? Oh yeah. Just a matter of time. Why create such a great mobile operating system and then not use it for your ultramobile devices? It'd be a waste of R&D dollars to limit it to the iPhone and iPod touch.



    Why are some people here assuming that Apple WANTS to compete with them?



    I don't think they do. Why would they want to?



    I hope they will have a device like an expanded Newton, but that would be a different product entirely.
  • Reply 178 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,028member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jensonb View Post


    You're making assumptions which are flagrantly false. I'm suggesting Apple build a premium version of the Eee-class notebook, with the 10 (Or even 11, why not). It doesn't need to be done the way Asus did it. The current offerings aim to be cheap and small, I'm simply suggesting Apple make a truly small notebook, but with their trademark quality. Hence why the price I listed was higher by a considerable margin than the likes of the Eee.



    Incidentally, Apple could, and MSI already have, put a hard drive in such a device.



    Besides which, that market is booming. Sorry, it just is.



    That market is booming only if the product costs $300 to $400.
  • Reply 179 of 311
    wobegonwobegon Posts: 764member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I just don't see any of that.



    Apple could have eliminated at least the quarter inch of the outer edges of the Air's case, and it would have been just as thin.



    Really, they could have gotten a completely flat, rounded rectangle down to an overall thickness of 0.16"?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    What you notice about the iPhone is actually an example in my favor. Apple didn't thin down the outer edges of the 3G, they increased the thickness in the middle.



    Sorry, but I was being fair. The iPhone 3G's thickness is just a tiny be thicker at its thickest point, but overall it's thinner than the original thanks to its new tapered edges. It also feels better in the hand because of this contoured shape, which fits the natural curve of the palm.



    Think about the Zune's rather squared corners compared to the iPod classic's more rounded corners. We both know which one more easily slips into a pocket and feels better to hold: the iPod. The iPhone 3G feels even better than the iPod classic thanks to tapered edges and makes it seem smaller than the original rounded-rectangle iPhone.



    Take a look at the comparison pictures on THIS PAGE. The white iPhone 3G is thinner overall and if they had gone with the black model, the difference would be more obvious.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The thin edges of the Air are just a talking point, they serve no actual purpose, and as many have noticed, they make the screen look even smaller. They also use more material, and no doubt cost a bit more.



    No, the tapered edges really aren't what makes the screen seem smaller. It's more an issue with the size of the bezel around the screen. Likewise, they're not necessarily using more material, but simply spreading the aluminum out more in the x and y planes, while the z plane, a.k.a. thickness, is decreased. One way to conceptualize this is to visualize the current MacBook Pro and then running said MacBook Pro over with a steam roller. What do you get? Same amount of aluminum, but it's all spread out and overall, it's thinner.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    One thing about the rounded square edges of the computers now, are that they allow you to carry the computer either way up, or even sideways, if that's convenient for some reason. With the Air's edges, that not really possible, as it's much too uncomfortable.



    Hmm, have you actually picked up a MacBook Air and put it under your arm? It's tapered edges, while thin, are not razor sharp. Also, it's not the same 0.16" across the entire surface, but gradually expands to its thickest points in the back and the center.



    Think about how it would feel to carry...a medium-sized textbook under your arm vs. a frozen pizza of roughly the same size, with its thickest point being slightly thinner than the thickest point of the book. The pizza's shape - thick center tapering off at the edges - fits the rounded crook of your arm, while the textbook basically forces you to straighten out your arm and push the book against the side of your abdomen to carry it comfortably.
  • Reply 180 of 311
    wobegonwobegon Posts: 764member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I understand that, but I think you're contradicting yourself on the processor performance, OS X runs fine on much slower Macs, but OS X would be poorly served by today's "underpowered" ULV chips which are actually quite a bit faster than those older Macs and can address bigger memory and the drives are faster now.



    Ah, agreed. I should have said something to the effect of "by today's standards."



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    As it is, I think Apple's current MacBook and even the MBP are even quite a bit over powered, unless you crank up the fan speed, they feel like they're going to burn something, even on idle CPU.



    I also agree (to a certain extent) with you here. The entry-level MacBook is more than powerful and full-featured enough for the majority of casual users. If my now 3 year old 15" PowerBook G4 had a working mic and speakers (they were killed by a large water spill and me turning it out and playing music on it right after to make sure it was ok ) I might be able to wait 'til next summer for my next Mac purchase; I may end up waiting anyway as I'll be starting college in a few weeks and will be short on cash for a while.



    Hopefully Apple's upcoming MacBook/Pro redesigns will reduce operating temperatures, especially with the Pro. Of course, the Air is so much cooler-running because...it uses less powerful processors that generate less heat. Perhaps Snow Leopard's Intel optimizations will help in this regard as well.



    Oh, and a move to SSDs could make the need for a faster processor less necessary as SSD read times are so much faster than HDDs, they can make system start-up time and application start-up times much shorter and everything in general feels zippier.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Exactly what are the true processor needs of a typical notebook user?



    Yeah, that's very debatable. In my opinion, Apple sets the standards most of the industry then follows, so anything much slower than the Air is too slow...by today's standards.
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