iPhone 3G sales hampered by Windows Mobile

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 74
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Doesn't Apple use a non-Apple solution for their iTunes servers?



    Last I heard, iTunes Music Store runs on Xserves, using OS X Server and WebObjects.
  • Reply 22 of 74
    dluxdlux Posts: 666member
    Put yourself back in time when there were only thirty or so Apple stores. Did it make sense then for Apple to design, implement, debug, and deploy their own POS system, when they had so many other tasks at hand? What about when there were 80 stores? 120? 200? At some point the volume of devices needed will warrant the engineering expenditure, but that point hasn't passed yet, at least according to Apple.



    Also remember that financial transactions are a special breed in terms of absolute reliability and integrity. These Windows-based POS's (pun intended) may be clunky, but they presumably have the data integrity part down. That's why Windows in general owns the specialty integrated solution space - they've been at it for decades, and some systems probably still run DOS.



    Give Apple time. Things will change when enough stores are online, the Touch OS is truly stable, and the hardware itself can interface with all the moving parts. (As for bar codes - what about an attached RFID reader instead?) Also bear in mind that some third-party integrator may already be working on an Apple Touch solution, with Apple's blessings, which can replace the Windows units when it's proven itself. A third-party vendor has the advantage that they have a much larger market than Apple's stores alone.
  • Reply 23 of 74
    As a former Apple Retail employee I'd like to offer a few comments.



    The EZPay system that runs WinCE always was a running joke (how ironic that so much business for Apple occurs via a windows peripheral), but the quotes in the article are a bit alarmist.



    The boot process for EZPay is not quite as long as one of the sources suggested, and the fact remains that EZPays are typically never rebooted while being used the rest of the day. While on the floor I would occasionally have issues with slowness running up a transaction, but never severe issues (this was through the iPhone 1.0 launch). You can't really make an article blaming the EZPays for transaction issues when you have a huge increase in sales volume from the 3G iPhones compounded by the activation process. The slowdown could been anywhere from the device to the activation servers. For small transactions the EZPays are usually faster than the full-fledged registers, and they really only lose out on speed when it is a very high item transaction or a transaction that requires corp discounts etc.



    Of course everything I say is based on my experience with the devices for a year or so (and everyone has had different personal experiences), but I really don't think this article would have been posted if the devices ran Symbian or some small embedded linux OS. Any slowdown a retail employee has when ringing up a transaction on an EZPay is an opportunity to talk about the thing we've always loved to talk about: Apple Products. So if the customer experience when purchasing an Apple product is standing next to a sales person on the floor chatting about the iPhone for a few minutes vs staring into oblivion while waiting in a very long line to a register I'd say Apple chose right.
  • Reply 24 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The rollout of the iPhone 3G required US Apple Store employees to act as AT&T representatives in collecting data from customers and setting up their mobile activations right in the store. The EasyPay devices commonly turned a five minute process into at least a fifteen minute ordeal, according to sources familiar with the devices, severely reducing the number of customers each employee could help. That in turn resulted in extremely long lines that kept some iPhone 3G customers waiting for hours to get the new phone.



    Don't they need to sit you down in front of an iMac and complete the sale there? In London, I registered through an Internet-Explorer-only O2 application running in a Windows virtual machine and then activated in iTunes.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    "I don't know why they don't create an iPhone application for handling transactions," one Apple store employee said. "The camera could act as a barcode reader, and Apple should be able to figure out how to build a USB interface for the credit card reader.



    No one in their right mind set would switch from a dedicated barcode reader to a camera hack. There are bunch of PDA scanners out there, but expectedly, they require an expansion port, usually SD, to hook up to the machine.
  • Reply 25 of 74
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gilles_deleuze View Post


    Don't they need to sit you down in front of an iMac and complete the sale there? In London, I registered through an Internet-Explorer-only O2 application running in a Windows virtual machine and then activated in iTunes...



    I think in the US it is all done through this handheld thingy??? Anyone?
  • Reply 26 of 74
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    I think in the US it is all done through this handheld thingy??? Anyone?



    He's talking about getting his iPhone set up on O2.



    I think the retail assistant had to go another person at a separate terminal who was putting in the new IEMI for my account.
  • Reply 27 of 74
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post


    Apple alone offers the OS X experience from the ground up. They have complete control over each level of the presentation. This is not the case with the iPhone. AT&T?along with other providers?are a part of that presentation. You can bet Apple was able to make some considerable plusses available as a result of their partnership with AT&T. If you doubt that for a moment, you definitely need to read up more on the mobile phone industry.



    If not for this partnership it is unlikely that Apple would have found many people to accept the phone initially without nerfing some of its features (lookin' at you, Verizon). Prices wouldn't be consistent and reliable, just as they are with other phones. You definitely wouldn't be able to go to the store and buy your iPhone, today, for $199.



    As much as you would like to imagine the situation is as simple as Apple doing with the iPhone what they do with OS X, it isn't. They've got to play nice with some other 800 lb. gorillas or a huge mess is going to be created. I think they did the right thing, though. iPhone is a huge hit around the world and that is going to give them much-needed leverage in future negotiations.



    You have some good points. At some point Apple has to play ball with the network providers. But has this partnership been beneficial? What are the challenges? Quite a few, as we have seen, though no doubt for both sides lots of sales and cash and interest. Don't get me wrong, the iPhone 3G and the network service has so much goodness and potential. But also, there are pitfalls, such as the 3G class action, complaints, and so on.



    Apple's success is built on the simplicity of OS X and OS X-like Windows apps. Hardware is designed to look good, work well, and run OS X smoothly. The iPhone would not be possible without their intelligent "OS X mobile" deployment (forgive the incorrect terminology).



    The iTunes Store would not be the top online digital download service if iTunes and Quicktime for Mac (part of OS X) and Windows (OS X-like for Windows) wasn't as easy and effective as it is.



    Apple would certainly like to have much more control over the quality and service expectation, and ease of use of the mobile network. It can do this three ways:



    1. Accept "fate" and just take a huge shaft up the a** as needed for cash/ service from the mobile network providers, as is the current case.



    2. Work closely with mobile network providers to get things smoother. Certainly Apple is doing this, but mostly in the USA. I mean, we know what happened in the UK, it was number 1 above.



    3. MVNO. There. I've said it.



    What if Apple's "4th Leg" becomes them being some sort of network provider? Not DSL, Not WiFi, but say 3.5G or 4G or 5G?



    With an MVNO the global rollout will be difficult initially but it might very well guarantee a much smoother Apple Mobile Products launches.



    For example, Apple is selling the iPhone 3G everywhere in the world. Then in 2009, it obviously *has* to sell mobile products around the world.



    It has tried to leverage the existing mobile providers. This is like hiring the local militia or mercenaries when invading a country. In the long run, is this effective?



    Apple laying the groundwork globally as an MVNO is like building forward bases when invading a country. There is a foundation to work on more under control by Apple themselves.



    Remember the MVNO model has huge popularity and success around the world, and the best part is that you're not exactly going in yourself to license the spectrum in a country.



    Of course though, at the end of the day, the business and cash strategy of which part of 1, 2, and 3 I listed above, is what Apple wants to do. The options are there, and we'll see what choices they make.
  • Reply 28 of 74
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    3. MVNO. There. I've said it.



    I'd like to read more speculation on this as a im/possibility. Not just Nvidia, but anyone.
  • Reply 29 of 74
    zunxzunx Posts: 620member
    There is yet another reason. You cannot do with the iPhone things that have been done with Windows Mobile smartphones for years:



    Impatica ShowMate

    http://www.impatica.com/showmate



    Commercial People-ready searching for "No Baggage" at:

    http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us



    THAT ON THE IPHONE WOULD BE THE ULTIMATE KEYNOTE AND POWERPOINT REMOTE!!!
  • Reply 30 of 74
    Haven't read all the comments, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.



    But, Don't we always hear how Apple IS/SHOULD or NEEDS to be moving into the business sector.



    well what better way than to provide a point of sale solution with all the Apple simplicity that we know them capable of. they can test run and iron out the bugs in their own stores for a year first, build a buzz, get the free advertising that would happen as sales increase, put a spin on it, because we already know the sales will just keep increasing anyway



    and what kind of a halo effect would the good reports coming back from other companies sales teams provide.



    "get the apple solution to POS and increase your profits"



    mmm.. then maybe i'll investigate these Macs and iWork.



    from a number of angles it makes sense.
  • Reply 31 of 74
    sapporobabysapporobaby Posts: 1,079member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'd like to read more speculation on this as a im/possibility. Not just Nvidia, but anyone.



    It is not hard to do. Just brand some cards, buy some bandwidth. Germany was one of the first to go the MVNO route. Usually the MVNO's do well and then are bought out by the bandwidth provider. Unless the MVNO is buying minutes and other services by the gazillion it is hard to make money for them because their model is based on undercutting the host operator.
  • Reply 32 of 74
    This is a classic example of a large customer like Apple needing a sophisticated POS system but having limited choices, all of them lousy. Apple stores were so popular that queues for purchase were becoming a problem in many locations. Also, Apple stores needed the real estate that registers occupied for showing product or other features, like the Genius Bar. The solution were to give all store employees the opportunity to complete a sale right where the customer was standing. But designing such a system wasn't easy or as obvious as you think.



    Apple runs one of the largest SAP implementations going. But in order to make a handheld POS system that could be rolled out quickly, Apple had few choices. WindowsCE systems already existed, including the hardware for barcoding and printing of receipts. They already had proper hooks into ERP systems. For anybody else, it would be enough. But for Apple, it was a painful reminder to customers that Apple wasn't "eating it's own dogfood" in a circumstance that customers would see at every sale.



    The alternative was using iPhones or iPod Touches to do the same thing, but 18 months ago, Apple was struggling just to get iPhone 1.0 out the door, much less worry about a POS system based on it. And or course, no SAP APIs existed for the nacest iPhone either...Apple would have to write them.



    It's not like they aren't working on a home grown technology now...I'm certain they are.

    I'm sure that either we will see a change in the next year to iPod Touches running a custom application that securely ties back to the SAP ERP system. The other problem is doing barcode reading and printing. You could either build a special iPod Touch with these features built in (at great expense) or use a separate wireless solution to a different device to handle that (much like the rental car companies do now).
  • Reply 33 of 74
    probablyprobably Posts: 139member
    I found that while using them that if they screwed up while processing someone's MacBook Pro payment, that being frustrated and laughing, "Oh these things run Windows" only affirmed the customer's choice of computer. Even though they now have to wait several more minutes for the thing to reboot.



    It's a self-healing 'problem,' though at their customer foot traffic/volume lately maybe there isn't room for that.
  • Reply 34 of 74
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post


    But is this really news?



    Yes because it has the word "iPhone" in it.

    This article is a joke- blame the Windows device and not yourself on your own incompetent retail check out procedure?
  • Reply 35 of 74
    wobegonwobegon Posts: 764member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Yes because it has the word "iPhone" in it.

    This article is a joke- blame the Windows device and not yourself on your own incompetent retail check out procedure?



    If you read the article, Apple also uses MacBook Pros with custom, Apple-designed checkout software that's much improved over these WinMobile-based point of service devices. The problem squarely rests with these POS systems that feature outdated hardware, software, and operating system. Apple isn't the only one using these devices.
  • Reply 36 of 74
    cubertcubert Posts: 728member
    It sounds like at least some people at Apple are masochistic.
  • Reply 37 of 74
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    If you read the article, Apple also uses MacBook Pros with custom, Apple-designed checkout software that's much improved over these WinMobile-based point of service devices. The problem squarely rests with these POS systems that feature outdated hardware, software, and operating system. Apple isn't the only one using these devices.



    You are joking aren't you? AS if buying an 3G iPhone is an easy thing to begin with?

    Who else is complaining about the devices? I've checked out of Apple for 2 years plus on these with my purchases and have never had a problem. These device are made for quick , easy check outs. The real problem is that Apple has a f*#ked up buying procedure for the iPhone- plain and simple.

    And where was the thread that should have been posted here for over two years plus on the irony that Windows devices are used in the first place in Apple stores? Only now when there is a problem with iPhone check outs???
  • Reply 38 of 74
    nceencee Posts: 857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I don't know. Rumors are that the back end of each retail store is on a Windows server. I don't know if that's true, but if there aren't OS X programs to handle a niche need for that, then they need to use what's available or pay a lot to develop one for just a couple hundred stores, their developers are better used to work on paying products.



    But if they partner with a company, to make a docking card reader, I don't see why it wouldn't be worth doing. That way, the reader and program can be marketed to other companies.





    I personally hadn't seen any problems with the devices when I paid (or got a refund) through those devices.



    I'd have to say "Not so". Can you imagine what some folks would pay to have a picture of that, to run on the cover of their magazine.



    I can see it now -



    "Want to keep your Mac running smoothly" "Do what Apple does, run your system on a Windoze server"



    Can you imagine the fun Bill Gatesvand Jerry Seinfeld could have with this in their corner.



    Jesus, that would be just what Bill Gates has been looking for, to slam his buddy Steve.



    Skip
  • Reply 39 of 74
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Hire more cashiers to attend to your "guests".\
  • Reply 40 of 74
    idleidle Posts: 49member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ncee View Post


    I'd have to say "Not so". Can you imagine what some folks would pay to have a picture of that, to run on the cover of their magazine.



    I can see it now -



    "Want to keep your Mac running smoothly" "Do what Apple does, run your system on a Windoze server"



    Can you imagine the fun Bill Gatesvand Jerry Seinfeld could have with this in their corner.



    Jesus, that would be just what Bill Gates has been looking for, to slam his buddy Steve.



    Skip



    Have you ever checked this out for yourself? I can't say whether Windows is being used, but it's true that the main servers are not OS X-based.
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