The problem with this test is the wording or focus on antenna. The antenna is such a small part of the equation that if that is all that there was to the test it would be meaningless. Thankfully this article indicates more involved testing. There could have been translation issues in previous reports.
As to the problems some people have had well it is a networked device and like all networks performance depends on load. For example I get really speedy downloads at home in the middle of the night. Day time is a diffferent story and more variable.
Given that I have experienced connection reliability issue that did not exist on previous phones. Whom to blame? Honestly I don't know but I do know that 3G is buggy as hell so I blame Apple.
Dave
Sure, Apple makes the iPhone, which has been tested and performs like all other 3G phones, so you blame Apple and not AT&T? AT&T who is providing the bulk of the service and infrastucture your buggy 3G relies upon?
My iPhone works just great here in Canada. The evidence is clearly mounting (note the Blackberry Bold suffers similar issues in the USA on AT&T) that this is primarily a carrier issue.
what's amusing it that, according to all the articles, Apple offered this gig to all the companies and only ATT was willing to step up to Apple's conditions.
apparently the gig was that the carrier would chip in a major piece of the devo costs in exchange for the exclusive contract which would allow for payback of the money. akin to the whole 'we'll give you your new phone for free and you will use us for 2 years' gig that subscribers get.
but the other boys balked because Apple wanted total design control. they weren't willing to give the carrier a say in how the phone was designed, what hardware or software etc. which is not the norm with such deals. ATT said okay and got the gig.
and now the others are probably kicking themselves
I don't know where you got this info but it's not entirely accurate. Verizon was the only other carrier Apple offered the phone to.
Verizon turned down the offer because Apple wanted to share subscription revenue. The $200/$300 ATT pays Apple probably isn't much different than the total revenue share.
Also the iPhone business model does not fit Verizon which likes to charge for extras such as visual voicemail, GPS, and media downloads.
It's a minor victory that Apple and the iPhone have been vindicated. But there is still the problem of what is going to be done to improve service for those experiencing problems. I guess the more iPhones in use would increase the incidents of dropped calls and poor performance. How is anything going to be done about it in a short time frame. More towers and repeaters or is new switching equipment going to be required? This could take many months. I wonder if a long-term mess-up like this would allow Apple to get out of their exclusivity commitment with AT&T.
The cost of new or added hardware is probably going to be passed on to AT&T users by rate hikes. Nearly everyone was screaming they needed 3G and were still pointing fingers at Apple because the original iPhone didn't have a 3G chip. Now the 3G chip is here and the 3G infrastructure is ill-equipped to handle the demands placed upon it. Maybe the best short-term solution is to throttle back the whole network in densely populated areas in order to even out the bandwidth for all users. (I'm not sure if the network works like that, but it's worth a shot) It's like finally being able to buy a Lambo Gallardo and then finding out that traffic is bumper-to-bumper 24 hours a day.
Jeez, an over-saturated 3G network already and this is just the start of iPhone growth. Maybe some startup company should just turn NYC into one gigantic WiFi hotspot.
Jeez, an over-saturated 3G network already and this is just the start of iPhone growth. Maybe some startup company should just turn NYC into one gigantic WiFi hotspot.
Isn't google doing something like this in California? I think with wimax and other technologies its just a matter of time before wireless (wireless anywhere, not hotspot) becomes the norm.
If you think about it most of the first mobile internet phones were used mainly for email and visiting special chtml mobile sites. The iPhone (and other new phones now) are really changing how we use the mobile internet. I kind of view this period, at least for the US, as early adopters. Just like HD has been around for a while now and has only recently really taken hold.
I think a year from now the mobile internet will be a vastly different beast in the US
I got 60 Kbps on 3G yesterday. So I tested again today and got 986 Kbps. Nothing was different. Same phone. Same 3G setting. Same position at my desk. Very obviously something was different on AT&T's end.
BTW, yesterday had 4 bars, today had 2 and later 3 bars so that apparently means little as well.
Now we can bury the 3G chipset and iPhone suck debate and maybe move on to dealing with application issues...
Like:
1) updates done on my iPhone crashing the phone - till i restore it.
2) apps wiping out their data
3) and proper push.
Don't get me wrong... I love my iPhone - I just want the obvious fixed.
I AGREE 100% Typing is slow and app response time is slow too. Getting from the lock screen to place a phone call from my contacts list takes 7-8 seconds. It should be snappier.
At least in LA the AT&T network has serious problems. Forget about 3G. I turn it off most of the time. The old 2.5 network is not good enough to maintain calls through the center of Beverly Hills. I have yet to complete a conversation without a dropped call.
I love the iphone, but I don't think I can live with this much longer. Both Sprint and Verizon provide much better reception and call quality. I switched with my wife from Sprint on July 11th.
Sorry, but these tests are way too limited to *prove* anything.
Among my iphone 3g-owning friends and colleagues here IN THE UK (i.e. ignore AT&T) every one of us (around 20 people spread across London, Manchester and Birmingham) has problems. Dropped calls are normal, and a massive percentage of calls incoming go to voicemail directly.
NO other phones we use on the same network have these issues.
NONE of these issues occurred with the original iPhone on O2.
There is a flaw in the way 3G is handled - whether it's hardware, software or a combination of the two. Sure 3G networks are still immature, but Nokia seem to know how to make them work just fine - my office N95 has not dropped a call since I've owned it, and it holds a great signal almost everywhere.
It worries me that this just gets Apple off the hook for some shoddy engineering.
I love this as a device, but it sucks big time as a *phone*.
Apple is just as much at fault of course, because they made the decision to give AT&T an exclusive deal.
Apple didn't have too much of a choice unless they wanted to make two versions of the iPhone, one CDMA2000 and another EDGE/UMTS. AT&T by far has the largest UMTS/HSDPA network in the country (maybe the only one, I'm not sure if T-Mobile has started their rollout yet or not), and I can't see Apple making either a special CDMA phone for Verizon or Sprint, though that would have definitely been best for the consumer.
My iPhone 3G doesn't give me too many problems, mainly because I live in a rural area and am likely the only person using a 3G AT&T phone for miles. Fortunately I still have 3G service because I'm relatively close to the Greenville/Spartanburg, SC area. And even in downtown Greenville/Spartanburg I still have good service. AT&T just deployed 3G here in June, and I thought coverage would be shoddy but it is actually decent. At home I usually have 3 bars of 3G, and always have 5 bars of EDGE. Sometimes the 3G will jump from 1 bar to 5 bars and back down, but it only drops 3G completely about once a week or so if that often.
I am NOT happy with the speeds I'm getting though, it usually is around 450-500 kbs, though sometimes it'll jump over 1000. Last night I actually got 2000 kbs, right before the 3G network crashed (from about 2 am until 3 pm today). So though it appears my speeds are usually capped at about 500 kbs, it does get speeds well above that occasionally.
Among my iphone 3g-owning friends and colleagues here IN THE UK (i.e. ignore AT&T) every one of us (around 20 people spread across London, Manchester and Birmingham) has problems. Dropped calls are normal, and a massive percentage of calls incoming go to voicemail directly.
Interesting. I know about 8 other people with an iPhone 3G in the US on AT&T and no one is having reliability issues with the phone service. The repeated complaint is only about the battery life. Do dropped calls happen when you switch off 3G? It is possible that most users in the US aren't using 3G much yet since it isn't widely available but here in the Boston area, 3G is widely deployed and I haven't heard any complaints.
I am such an Apple fanboy that I'm wearing my Leopard release night t-shirt to the office today. I own about 6 macs, got the iPhone 3G on July 11 and had one of the originals as well.
But I just don't agree that the iPhone 3G doesn't have something wrong with it. I had a 8525 before I got my original iPhone, and I never experienced anything like this—and that was AT&T as well. Everything works perfectly when I disable 3G. That's fine; it's like I got a 16mb original iPhone for way less than the original. But, it just ain't workin' right.
Hopefully these tests establish that it's not the *hardware*. If that's the case, then hopefully the software update will take care of things.
But I just don't agree that the iPhone 3G doesn't have something wrong with it. I had a 8525 before I got my original iPhone, and I never experienced anything like this?and that was AT&T as well. Everything works perfectly when I disable 3G.
The 8525 did not use HSDPA, like the iPhone. This is a brand new 3G standard for AT&T.
Quote:
Oh yeah, and I could tether my 8525 as well. ):
AT&T forbids tethering. The iPhone is technically capable.
Wow... I didn't know that there was a Birmingham in the US, seriously (o_O)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
The 8525 did not use HSDPA, like the iPhone. This is a brand new 3G standard for AT&T.
AT&T forbids tethering. The iPhone is technically capable.
The 8525 is UMTS (3G), the iPhone 3G is actually 3.5G (HSDPA), but I guess "iPhone three point five gee" or "iPhone three and a half gee" were a little bit too long for marketing reasons :-P
And yes, tethering is forbidden by AT&T, but other companies in other countries don't :-D Can still see some iPhones tethering outside AT&T's claws.
People, don't rely on how many bars the iPhone displays! You should actually do a speed test! I ran a speed test this afternoon while being near to my work place, just right in the city center of Cologne, Germany, with lots of people around me. I had full UMTS reception (4-5 bars). Using testmyiphone.com, I had the following downloading speeds:
2.32 MBps, 2.93 MBps, 2.8 MBps (ran the test 3 times)
This evening, I ran another test at my home place where I usually have very low UMTS reception (only 1-2 bars). I expected to have very bad download speeds, but surprise, surprise:
testmyiphone actually suffers from very serious bandwidth stability issues, if the test is good looking, trust it, but if the test says that your speed is bad, don't trust it, try other speed tests to see if the problem is your carrier or if it's the web page.
Today I'm getting 4.5 Mbps readings on my 5.8 Mbps conection, wich is... not that bad of a reading, but yesterday I had 1.3 Mbps readings in testmyiphone, but just afterwords I was downloading at above 700 KB/s, so that means that the problem was the web page, not my connection.
Interesting. I know about 8 other people with an iPhone 3G in the US on AT&T and no one is having reliability issues with the phone service. The repeated complaint is only about the battery life. Do dropped calls happen when you switch off 3G? It is possible that most users in the US aren't using 3G much yet since it isn't widely available but here in the Boston area, 3G is widely deployed and I haven't heard any complaints.
I have resorted to switching off 3G almost permanently - as have everyone else I know - as the only way to get a half reasonable chance of making and receiving calls. It is way, way more reliable than 3G, but I still get plenty of complaints about audio quality ("sounds like you're underwater" etc.) which I never had with the original iPhone.
No idea what the root of this problem actually is, but it isn't trivial. When I spoke to the girl in the O2 shop today where I bought my phone, she said, and I quote, "yeah, we've been getting lots of calls about this - my brother has the same problem - but lots of other people see to be doing fine. It's weird. Come in and we'll swap your SIM card to see if that helps".
Something, at least in a large batch of these phones, is seriously faulty.
I'd like to hear some more examples of people blaming victims. Certainly, your not a victim if you knowingly signed up for AT&T, which any reasonable inquiry would tell you isn't without consequences. I'd rather not use a cell phone then be stuck with AT&T. Interestingly enough, my iPhone on T-Mobile has better sound quality then my buddies on AT&T (version one).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe
We didn't buy into AT&T, we got stuck with it. It was AT&T's way or the highway. It appears as though you're blaming the victims here, a tendency that has for some reason been growing in American culture in recent years.
The problem with this test is the wording or focus on antenna. The antenna is such a small part of the equation that if that is all that there was to the test it would be meaningless. Thankfully this article indicates more involved testing. There could have been translation issues in previous reports.
As to the problems some people have had well it is a networked device and like all networks performance depends on load. For example I get really speedy downloads at home in the middle of the night. Day time is a diffferent story and more variable.
Given that I have experienced connection reliability issue that did not exist on previous phones. Whom to blame? Honestly I don't know but I do know that 3G is buggy as hell so I blame Apple.
Dave
Good point Dave. The antenna could be fine, but a faulty chipset/firmware could still muck up calls and connections. The real question is if AT&T's other 3G devices are experiencing this problem, and if they are, how come we're not hearing about it.
People, don't rely on how many bars the iPhone displays! You should actually do a speed test! I ran a speed test this afternoon while being near to my work place, just right in the city center of Cologne, Germany, with lots of people around me. I had full UMTS reception (4-5 bars). Using testmyiphone.com, I had the following downloading speeds:
2.32 MBps, 2.93 MBps, 2.8 MBps (ran the test 3 times)
This evening, I ran another test at my home place where I usually have very low UMTS reception (only 1-2 bars). I expected to have very bad download speeds, but surprise, surprise:
Comments
The problem with this test is the wording or focus on antenna. The antenna is such a small part of the equation that if that is all that there was to the test it would be meaningless. Thankfully this article indicates more involved testing. There could have been translation issues in previous reports.
As to the problems some people have had well it is a networked device and like all networks performance depends on load. For example I get really speedy downloads at home in the middle of the night. Day time is a diffferent story and more variable.
Given that I have experienced connection reliability issue that did not exist on previous phones. Whom to blame? Honestly I don't know but I do know that 3G is buggy as hell so I blame Apple.
Dave
Sure, Apple makes the iPhone, which has been tested and performs like all other 3G phones, so you blame Apple and not AT&T? AT&T who is providing the bulk of the service and infrastucture your buggy 3G relies upon?
My iPhone works just great here in Canada. The evidence is clearly mounting (note the Blackberry Bold suffers similar issues in the USA on AT&T) that this is primarily a carrier issue.
what's amusing it that, according to all the articles, Apple offered this gig to all the companies and only ATT was willing to step up to Apple's conditions.
apparently the gig was that the carrier would chip in a major piece of the devo costs in exchange for the exclusive contract which would allow for payback of the money. akin to the whole 'we'll give you your new phone for free and you will use us for 2 years' gig that subscribers get.
but the other boys balked because Apple wanted total design control. they weren't willing to give the carrier a say in how the phone was designed, what hardware or software etc. which is not the norm with such deals. ATT said okay and got the gig.
and now the others are probably kicking themselves
I don't know where you got this info but it's not entirely accurate. Verizon was the only other carrier Apple offered the phone to.
Verizon turned down the offer because Apple wanted to share subscription revenue. The $200/$300 ATT pays Apple probably isn't much different than the total revenue share.
Also the iPhone business model does not fit Verizon which likes to charge for extras such as visual voicemail, GPS, and media downloads.
The cost of new or added hardware is probably going to be passed on to AT&T users by rate hikes. Nearly everyone was screaming they needed 3G and were still pointing fingers at Apple because the original iPhone didn't have a 3G chip. Now the 3G chip is here and the 3G infrastructure is ill-equipped to handle the demands placed upon it. Maybe the best short-term solution is to throttle back the whole network in densely populated areas in order to even out the bandwidth for all users. (I'm not sure if the network works like that, but it's worth a shot) It's like finally being able to buy a Lambo Gallardo and then finding out that traffic is bumper-to-bumper 24 hours a day.
Jeez, an over-saturated 3G network already and this is just the start of iPhone growth. Maybe some startup company should just turn NYC into one gigantic WiFi hotspot.
Jeez, an over-saturated 3G network already and this is just the start of iPhone growth. Maybe some startup company should just turn NYC into one gigantic WiFi hotspot.
Isn't google doing something like this in California? I think with wimax and other technologies its just a matter of time before wireless (wireless anywhere, not hotspot) becomes the norm.
If you think about it most of the first mobile internet phones were used mainly for email and visiting special chtml mobile sites. The iPhone (and other new phones now) are really changing how we use the mobile internet. I kind of view this period, at least for the US, as early adopters. Just like HD has been around for a while now and has only recently really taken hold.
I think a year from now the mobile internet will be a vastly different beast in the US
I got 60 Kbps on 3G yesterday. So I tested again today and got 986 Kbps. Nothing was different. Same phone. Same 3G setting. Same position at my desk. Very obviously something was different on AT&T's end.
BTW, yesterday had 4 bars, today had 2 and later 3 bars so that apparently means little as well.
Now we can bury the 3G chipset and iPhone suck debate and maybe move on to dealing with application issues...
Like:
1) updates done on my iPhone crashing the phone - till i restore it.
2) apps wiping out their data
3) and proper push.
Don't get me wrong... I love my iPhone - I just want the obvious fixed.
I AGREE 100% Typing is slow and app response time is slow too. Getting from the lock screen to place a phone call from my contacts list takes 7-8 seconds. It should be snappier.
I love the iphone, but I don't think I can live with this much longer. Both Sprint and Verizon provide much better reception and call quality. I switched with my wife from Sprint on July 11th.
Is there any hope for improvement??
Among my iphone 3g-owning friends and colleagues here IN THE UK (i.e. ignore AT&T) every one of us (around 20 people spread across London, Manchester and Birmingham) has problems. Dropped calls are normal, and a massive percentage of calls incoming go to voicemail directly.
NO other phones we use on the same network have these issues.
NONE of these issues occurred with the original iPhone on O2.
There is a flaw in the way 3G is handled - whether it's hardware, software or a combination of the two. Sure 3G networks are still immature, but Nokia seem to know how to make them work just fine - my office N95 has not dropped a call since I've owned it, and it holds a great signal almost everywhere.
It worries me that this just gets Apple off the hook for some shoddy engineering.
I love this as a device, but it sucks big time as a *phone*.
What? Dec 27 2006? http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/April2007/4516.htm
It is over 100 million now.
My error. Old age.
Interesting
Date.......................................... April 2, 2007*
Total Mobile Subscribers................ 478.4 million
Total 3G.......................................... 45 million
Date ...........................................End May, 2008†
Total Mobile Subscribers...............910.8 million
Total 3G......................................101.5 million
* http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/April2007/4516.htm"]http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/April2007/4516.htm
† http://www.unwiredview.com/2008/06/2...s-100-million/
Apple is just as much at fault of course, because they made the decision to give AT&T an exclusive deal.
Apple didn't have too much of a choice unless they wanted to make two versions of the iPhone, one CDMA2000 and another EDGE/UMTS. AT&T by far has the largest UMTS/HSDPA network in the country (maybe the only one, I'm not sure if T-Mobile has started their rollout yet or not), and I can't see Apple making either a special CDMA phone for Verizon or Sprint, though that would have definitely been best for the consumer.
My iPhone 3G doesn't give me too many problems, mainly because I live in a rural area and am likely the only person using a 3G AT&T phone for miles. Fortunately I still have 3G service because I'm relatively close to the Greenville/Spartanburg, SC area. And even in downtown Greenville/Spartanburg I still have good service. AT&T just deployed 3G here in June, and I thought coverage would be shoddy but it is actually decent. At home I usually have 3 bars of 3G, and always have 5 bars of EDGE. Sometimes the 3G will jump from 1 bar to 5 bars and back down, but it only drops 3G completely about once a week or so if that often.
I am NOT happy with the speeds I'm getting though, it usually is around 450-500 kbs, though sometimes it'll jump over 1000. Last night I actually got 2000 kbs, right before the 3G network crashed (from about 2 am until 3 pm today). So though it appears my speeds are usually capped at about 500 kbs, it does get speeds well above that occasionally.
Among my iphone 3g-owning friends and colleagues here IN THE UK (i.e. ignore AT&T) every one of us (around 20 people spread across London, Manchester and Birmingham) has problems. Dropped calls are normal, and a massive percentage of calls incoming go to voicemail directly.
Interesting. I know about 8 other people with an iPhone 3G in the US on AT&T and no one is having reliability issues with the phone service. The repeated complaint is only about the battery life. Do dropped calls happen when you switch off 3G? It is possible that most users in the US aren't using 3G much yet since it isn't widely available but here in the Boston area, 3G is widely deployed and I haven't heard any complaints.
But I just don't agree that the iPhone 3G doesn't have something wrong with it. I had a 8525 before I got my original iPhone, and I never experienced anything like this—and that was AT&T as well. Everything works perfectly when I disable 3G. That's fine; it's like I got a 16mb original iPhone for way less than the original. But, it just ain't workin' right.
Hopefully these tests establish that it's not the *hardware*. If that's the case, then hopefully the software update will take care of things.
Oh yeah, and I could tether my 8525 as well. ):
But I just don't agree that the iPhone 3G doesn't have something wrong with it. I had a 8525 before I got my original iPhone, and I never experienced anything like this?and that was AT&T as well. Everything works perfectly when I disable 3G.
The 8525 did not use HSDPA, like the iPhone. This is a brand new 3G standard for AT&T.
Oh yeah, and I could tether my 8525 as well. ):
AT&T forbids tethering. The iPhone is technically capable.
My 3G in Birmingham, AL has had good data speeds
Wow... I didn't know that there was a Birmingham in the US, seriously (o_O)
The 8525 did not use HSDPA, like the iPhone. This is a brand new 3G standard for AT&T.
AT&T forbids tethering. The iPhone is technically capable.
The 8525 is UMTS (3G), the iPhone 3G is actually 3.5G (HSDPA), but I guess "iPhone three point five gee" or "iPhone three and a half gee" were a little bit too long for marketing reasons :-P
And yes, tethering is forbidden by AT&T, but other companies in other countries don't :-D Can still see some iPhones tethering outside AT&T's claws.
2.32 MBps, 2.93 MBps, 2.8 MBps (ran the test 3 times)
This evening, I ran another test at my home place where I usually have very low UMTS reception (only 1-2 bars). I expected to have very bad download speeds, but surprise, surprise:
2.3 MBps, 2.69 MBps, 2.08 MBps (ran 3 tests again)
Though my iPhone displayed a much worse UMTS reception, download speeds have been comparable, only insignificantly lower.
Today I'm getting 4.5 Mbps readings on my 5.8 Mbps conection, wich is... not that bad of a reading, but yesterday I had 1.3 Mbps readings in testmyiphone, but just afterwords I was downloading at above 700 KB/s, so that means that the problem was the web page, not my connection.
Interesting. I know about 8 other people with an iPhone 3G in the US on AT&T and no one is having reliability issues with the phone service. The repeated complaint is only about the battery life. Do dropped calls happen when you switch off 3G? It is possible that most users in the US aren't using 3G much yet since it isn't widely available but here in the Boston area, 3G is widely deployed and I haven't heard any complaints.
I have resorted to switching off 3G almost permanently - as have everyone else I know - as the only way to get a half reasonable chance of making and receiving calls. It is way, way more reliable than 3G, but I still get plenty of complaints about audio quality ("sounds like you're underwater" etc.) which I never had with the original iPhone.
No idea what the root of this problem actually is, but it isn't trivial. When I spoke to the girl in the O2 shop today where I bought my phone, she said, and I quote, "yeah, we've been getting lots of calls about this - my brother has the same problem - but lots of other people see to be doing fine. It's weird. Come in and we'll swap your SIM card to see if that helps".
Something, at least in a large batch of these phones, is seriously faulty.
We didn't buy into AT&T, we got stuck with it. It was AT&T's way or the highway. It appears as though you're blaming the victims here, a tendency that has for some reason been growing in American culture in recent years.
The problem with this test is the wording or focus on antenna. The antenna is such a small part of the equation that if that is all that there was to the test it would be meaningless. Thankfully this article indicates more involved testing. There could have been translation issues in previous reports.
As to the problems some people have had well it is a networked device and like all networks performance depends on load. For example I get really speedy downloads at home in the middle of the night. Day time is a diffferent story and more variable.
Given that I have experienced connection reliability issue that did not exist on previous phones. Whom to blame? Honestly I don't know but I do know that 3G is buggy as hell so I blame Apple.
Dave
Good point Dave. The antenna could be fine, but a faulty chipset/firmware could still muck up calls and connections. The real question is if AT&T's other 3G devices are experiencing this problem, and if they are, how come we're not hearing about it.
People, don't rely on how many bars the iPhone displays! You should actually do a speed test! I ran a speed test this afternoon while being near to my work place, just right in the city center of Cologne, Germany, with lots of people around me. I had full UMTS reception (4-5 bars). Using testmyiphone.com, I had the following downloading speeds:
2.32 MBps, 2.93 MBps, 2.8 MBps (ran the test 3 times)
This evening, I ran another test at my home place where I usually have very low UMTS reception (only 1-2 bars). I expected to have very bad download speeds, but surprise, surprise:
2.3 MBps, 2.69 MBps, 2.08 MBps (ran 3 tests again)
Though my iPhone displayed a much worse UMTS reception, download speeds have been comparable, only insignificantly lower.
MBps?? Are you sure about that? I think it's more like Mbps. There is a difference.