I realize this might seem rather indirect, but the fact that they are being sued, especially in regard to the apps, is a negative, but affirming tribute to the iPhone. Although the iPhone and iPhone 3G are not the smoothest launches, no other competitor can cram a computer into a phone, and therefore, no other competitor is being sued as such.
Frivolous law suits should be banished, but you can't sue what doesn't exist.
My only hope is that this law suit of weak speeds will stick against AT & T, so that they will continue to upgrade their network. I find their coverage thin in the Tampa area.
I think a lot of the problem with this type of forum is the written word. I'm sure that nobody here means to insult anybody. The guy's understandably frustrated and simply venting.
I'm guessing most of these people installed ALL OF THE FREE APPS and have not tried a reset.
Or Move! Cincinnati seems to have a stable/fast 3G network.
I'm getting 4.5 times the speed on 3G as I was on EDGE, I'm approaching WiFi speeds in some cases, the only dropped call I got was in the middle of a WalMart, I just had no signal.
Still by far the best technology investment I've ever made.
Apple: please stop. Cut the suffering chains on these abused people. Let them return their phones, and give them a Windows Mobile phone and a brown Zune. Heck, throw in a copy of Vista as well. That should make them happy and fix all this wrongdoing.
Apple: please stop. Cut the suffering chains on these abused people. Let them return their phones, and give them a Windows Mobile phone and a brown Zune. Heck, throw in a copy of Vista as well. That should make them happy and fix all this wrongdoing.
I have a new 3G iphone and live in an area which has strong 3G coverage. My 3G Blackjack works fine while my iphone drops calls constantly. I go from 4 bars to none and back to 4 like the wind is blowing through. It's so bad I've given up and turned 3G off...and now it works fine and I have no dropped calls. Honestly, it doesn't seem much slower either. I hope Apple fixes this problem.
The real losers are people like this guy who, for lack of real arguments, resort to personal insults. His self-inflated ego just can't handle that the reality is different than what he'd like it to be, and that people have the right to an opinion.
His worst case scenario? Quit AT&T and pay the (still too high but no where near $2,000) $175 termination fee. And that is unlikely if he raises a stink.
Of course Mr. Enigmafan's knowledge doesn't extend as far as his iPhone's coverage to things like *the true cost of the iPhone* over a year:
Some people who are strongly biased in favor of Apple are angry at the lawsuits. You then start hearing things like "all lawyers and people who sue are crooks".
If someone - a person or a company- has lied to you about a product, you should be able to take the necessary actions to be compensated for that. It doesn't matter if it's Apple or any other entity. Deceiving and lying to someone for profit is unacceptable. And the Justice System is designed to serve those kinds of situations. It's as simple as that.
The "why don't they return it" argument doesn't work. During the limited trial period someone may want to still give the device a chance in the hope the problem will be remedied.
I live in NYC and the 3G connection on the phone has been terrible. In most places in NYC, it hasn't been working at all. Initially I was using the phone mostly inside the house where it would pick up the wi-fi.
Complaining to AT&T was useless - they acted as if they were blissfully unaware of any problems and sent me to Apple.
I do believe it's mainly AT&T's fault (not the iPhone's), and yet Apple was involved in the deal and advertising so it bears its share of responsibility for these problems.
I wouldn't be surprised if the plaintiff of this lawsuit didn't even have an iphone , but feels entitled to thousands of dollars just incase he gets one. the stability of his Ibeer or i-light app is very important!
This is not directed toward any particular person or post but is just a general statement.
It is about time that somebody hold Apple and ATT accountable for their deception, false advertising, and possibly even fraud. It is obvious that the IPhone 3G does NOT work as advertised, not even close to it. Apple nor ATT have even admitted there is a problem, and until and unless somebody holds them accountable they will not. The first step to fixing a problem is to admit you have one. Too many people in this world have the attitude that some seem to have on this forum, that of - well if it doesn't work just get over it, live with it, stop complaining. Hog wash.
This is the reason that big companies have been able for years to produce defective products and provide services that don't work and get away with it. I am glad to see these law suits and hope they end up teaching the alleged perfect company Apple a lesson. They are so arrogant that they removed the following post I posted on the Apple discussion forum claiming - "because it contained language or comments that were inappropriate". There is NOTHING that was inappropriate in this post. The post contained the words "The IPhone 3G is junk" because I quoted this post by someone else, that was also removed.
If you say anything negative toward the IPhone 3G or Apple your post will be removed. Several other posts were not only inappropriate but threatening but positive toward Apple and were not removed. Note that the quote from another person in my quote below were I was called a liar, affectively called stupid, and basically told to shut up, was NOT removed. The arrogance and hypocrisy. If one is open minded and fair, and not biased toward Apple, they will find nothing inappropriate with the following post-
=======
How would you know what is accurate and what is not? The answer is you don't. You even have problems with simple math yet we are to take your comments as gold.
I stated in another post, that someone else started and looks to have been removed because its title was something like "The IPhone 3G is junk", that "Who in the world would not be bitter with a phone that cost them $500.00 that claimed to be the best most fantastic phone ever created by man, that "just DOESN"T work"
You wrote: "If you had actually bought an iPhone, you would know that it costs $300 (max). It's obvious to anyone with a 3 digit IQ that you didn't, and probably never used any Mac product. Take your MS trolling BS elsewhere."
First, everything I write is my own experience with my IPhone 3G which I bought on the second day of release. Second if you could add you would see - $324.00 - 16GB IPhone 3G with tax $39.00 - Activation Fee $40.00 - Case to protect the IPhone 3G $69.00 - Mobile Me $40.00 - Dock since it doesn't come with one
$512.00 - Total. This does not count the $240.00 over 2 years just to get text. So you should learn to add. Note that you statement said $300.00 MAX. This alone, not to mention many of your other posts, shows how little you know about the subject. I can assure you with complete confidence that my IQ overwhelms yours. Of this I am certain. I can also tell you that my experience in this field does as well.
Finally, I am not going anywhere. If you do not like what I write then don't read it. I can safely say that anyone who acts on your opinion does so at their own risk. And by the way, nobody really knows how accurate the article is.
You, and the other "Apple worshiper - anilsudhakaran", and all the others, will just have to get used to people complaining about the IPhone 3G. We are NOT going away no matter how much you want us to. The multitude of problems with the IPhone 3G will be brought out, and brought out continually despite you or any other worshiper, and will continue until they are fixed.
It is about time that somebody hold Apple and ATT accountable for their deception, false advertising
I don't think that Apple have falsely advertised or been deceiving on this particular issue (3G speeds). They did falsely advertise when they said "all parts of the internet [sic] are on [sic] the iPhone"; in the UK they are no longer allowed to show that advert and rightly so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega
It is obvious that the IPhone 3G does NOT work as advertised, not even close to it.
No, it is obvious that ATT's 3G network doesn't work properly in many heavily-populated areas of the US. Independent tests have shown there's nothing wrong with the 3G iPhone's 3G.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega
Too many people in this world have the attitude that some seem to have on this forum, that of - well if it doesn't work just get over it, live with it, stop complaining. Hog wash.
No, you have totally misconstrued the sentiment of many here. It's not "if it doesn't work as you expected, live with it". It's "if it doesn't work as you expected, take it back and demand a refund". Plenty of people have reported getting refunds even beyond the ample 14 day return period.
It's clear that anyone having a problem had a problem from the beginning. If everything had been going perfectly, and then after 6 months everything started going wrong, remained wrong for an extended period of time, and Apple/ATT refused to admit error, then a lawsuit would be warranted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega
This is the reason that big companies have been able for years to produce defective products and provide services that don't work and get away with it.
No, this is absolutely not the reason. The reason is that people have been happy to buy defective products and then not return them, instead choosing to keep them and whinge instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega
I am glad to see these law suits and hope they end up teaching the alleged perfect company Apple a lesson.
I'm not sure anyone here is alleging that Apple is perfect. They are far from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega
They are so arrogant that they removed the following post I posted on the Apple discussion forum
I agree that there's nothing in your post that warranted its removal, however, it's hardly surprising that Apple removes negative comments from its own forums. There are plenty of third-party forums (such as this one) that people can come to and be free from Apple's censorship.
Yep you got me! I don't pay the bill for 2 of the phones each month-Damn wish I was as smart as you were... That AT&T bill that arrives each month-I just pay it but I am too stupid (with my degree in accounting and my CPA license) to figure the true cost.
My point was, a stack of money into some Attorney's pockets isn't going to fix anything, especially when these "settlements" generally result in no accepting of liability on the defendant's part-Guess you were not smart enough to actually READ my posts...
Incidentally, I do think AT&T blows-I hate the fact that in this country we try to fix every problem by extorting money from businesses-and in my line of work-I see it ALL THE TIME.
By the way, Mr Rocket Scientist-the article that hyperlink points to applies to the 2G version-did YOU even read it?
This is not directed toward any particular person or post but is just a general statement.
It is about time that somebody hold Apple and ATT accountable for their deception, false advertising, and possibly even fraud. It is obvious that the IPhone 3G does NOT work as advertised, not even close to it. Apple nor ATT have even admitted there is a problem, and until and unless somebody holds them accountable they will not. The first step to fixing a problem is to admit you have one. Too many people in this world have the attitude that some seem to have on this forum, that of - well if it doesn't work just get over it, live with it, stop complaining. Hog wash.
This is the reason that big companies have been able for years to produce defective products and provide services that don't work and get away with it. I am glad to see these law suits and hope they end up teaching the alleged perfect company Apple a lesson. They are so arrogant that they removed the following post I posted on the Apple discussion forum claiming - "because it contained language or comments that were inappropriate". There is NOTHING that was inappropriate in this post. The post contained the words "The IPhone 3G is junk" because I quoted this post by someone else, that was also removed.
If you say anything negative toward the IPhone 3G or Apple your post will be removed. Several other posts were not only inappropriate but threatening but positive toward Apple and were not removed. Note that the quote from another person in my quote below were I was called a liar, affectively called stupid, and basically told to shut up, was NOT removed. The arrogance and hypocrisy. If one is open minded and fair, and not biased toward Apple, they will find nothing inappropriate with the following post-
=======
How would you know what is accurate and what is not? The answer is you don't. You even have problems with simple math yet we are to take your comments as gold.
I stated in another post, that someone else started and looks to have been removed because its title was something like "The IPhone 3G is junk", that "Who in the world would not be bitter with a phone that cost them $500.00 that claimed to be the best most fantastic phone ever created by man, that "just DOESN"T work"
You wrote: "If you had actually bought an iPhone, you would know that it costs $300 (max). It's obvious to anyone with a 3 digit IQ that you didn't, and probably never used any Mac product. Take your MS trolling BS elsewhere."
First, everything I write is my own experience with my IPhone 3G which I bought on the second day of release. Second if you could add you would see - $324.00 - 16GB IPhone 3G with tax $39.00 - Activation Fee $40.00 - Case to protect the IPhone 3G $69.00 - Mobile Me $40.00 - Dock since it doesn't come with one
$512.00 - Total. This does not count the $240.00 over 2 years just to get text. So you should learn to add. Note that you statement said $300.00 MAX. This alone, not to mention many of your other posts, shows how little you know about the subject. I can assure you with complete confidence that my IQ overwhelms yours. Of this I am certain. I can also tell you that my experience in this field does as well.
Finally, I am not going anywhere. If you do not like what I write then don't read it. I can safely say that anyone who acts on your opinion does so at their own risk. And by the way, nobody really knows how accurate the article is.
You, and the other "Apple worshiper - anilsudhakaran", and all the others, will just have to get used to people complaining about the IPhone 3G. We are NOT going away no matter how much you want us to. The multitude of problems with the IPhone 3G will be brought out, and brought out continually despite you or any other worshiper, and will continue until they are fixed.
The Omega
I think it is totally appropriate to complain about legitimate issues. If no one said anything, nothing would ever get fixed. Apple and AT&T need to know there are problems, so please, DO NOT quit informing people of them!
I do NOT think it is appropriate to SUE Apple over it-Maybe AT&T though that seems a little like a lost cause as most class members end up with a $15 payment if they are lucky, while some lackey attorneys pocket millions. And I just don't see how a $15 settlement (or even a larger amount like $300-which will NEVER HAPPEN) is going to fix anything. The only results might be a change in advertising (doubtful). There is no way a lawsuit can compel a company to spend millions of dollars on R&D or, in this case, a network upgrade. So a class action suit will fix NOTHING, and, speaking only for myself, is the whole point of the counter-lawsuit argument.
the deer; I could not agree with you more and would like to emphasize your points. Those who are loyal Apple supporters have offered as suggestions to these problems the following (not a complete list by no means, but shows what the vain of their "help" is):
1) If 3G is not working shut it off: I would venture to say that of all the reasons people bought a IPhone 3G getting 3G speeds would be at the top of the list. They are being advised to shut off 3G when it doesn't work. Of course, they must continue to pay for it.
2) Restore your phone: Any problem that a customer has that they do not know how to fix, their suggestion is to restore, which bascially means to start all over. Many people have done this many times to no avail.
3) Take it to an Apple Genius: From the experiences I have read of people following this recommendation, few have had their problems solved. The cost in time, gas, and inconvenience of the customer, some of which have done this several times, is never considered.
4) Take it to Apple for a replacement: From the data collected directly from customers who have done this, most received "new" phones that either were just as bad or in many cases worse than the ones they had. Of course, they have to start all over with this "solution" as well. Some number of phones, no one but possibly Apple knows how many or which ones, are defective (I believe they all are defective in the firware/software they contain), so replacing your non-working IPhone 3G is just as likely to cause you more problems. This is a gamble at best.
5) Quit complaining about a "early release product": I have news for those who think this, the IPhone 3G was placed in stores for sale as a Production product, not an early release product. Nowhere does Apple or ATT state that this is something less than a full production worthy product. Quite the contrary, it is advertised as being flawless.
I could go on, but I think I have made my point. We are suppose to just over look all these issues, forget that we are paying for something we are not getting, and heaven forbid don't sue Apple, and why, well because it is Apple after all.
Apple products are no better or worse than most others, including Microsoft's. They should be held accountable, and we the customer (what ever happened to the customer is always right (not Apple is always right)?) should get our products we paid for fixed, the service we continue to pay for fixed, or get full refunds plus cost of dealing with all these issues.
I think it is totally appropriate to complain about legitimate issues. If no one said anything, nothing would ever get fixed. Apple and AT&T need to know there are problems, so please, DO NOT quit informing people of them!
I do NOT think it is appropriate to SUE Apple over it-Maybe AT&T though that seems a little like a lost cause as most class members end up with a $15 payment if they are lucky, while some lackey attorneys pocket millions. And I just don't see how a $15 settlement (or even a larger amount like $300-which will NEVER HAPPEN) is going to fix anything. The only results might be a change in advertising (doubtful). There is no way a lawsuit can compel a company to spend millions of dollars on R&D or, in this case, a net work upgrade. So a class action suit will fix NOTHING, and, speaking only for myself, is the whole point of the counter-lawsuit argument.
I don't disagree with your statement. How a lawsuit would help the consumer and hurt Apple is their reputation, which they care a great deal about. And you are right, consumers might get $15.00 or something but multiple that by 3 million and that could cost Apple dearly. The only thing that matters to Apple, or any other company, is money and in some cases like Apple, their reputation. Apple's reputation is why those that are complete Apple supporters no matter what are angry at the law suits. They might hurt Apple's reputation.
To protect their reputation, and save potentially millions of dollars, Apple wil act whereas otherwise they may not. As to them admitting any problem, even law suits may not convince Apple to do that.
I don't disagree with your statement. How a lawsuit would help the consumer and hurt Apple is their reputation, which they care a great deal about. And you are right, consumers might get $15.00 or something but multiple that by 3 million and that could cost Apple dearly. The only thing that matters to Apple, or any other company, is money and in some cases like Apple, their reputation. Apple's reputation is why those that are complete Apple supporters no matter what are angry at the law suits. They might hurt Apple's reputation.
To protect their reputation, and save potentially millions of dollars, Apple wil act whereas otherwise they may not. As to them admitting any problem, even law suits may not convince Apple to do that.
Thanks
The Omega
I do believe Apple is working on it-they have upgraded the software twice already, and promise a more substantial upgrade this month.
They have to understand, without a lawsuit, how negative this whole issue is. Believe me, they are keenly aware of the negative press and no company that wanted to remain in business would not address it.
I have to believe that if they had a fix that would make it go away TODAY, they would have already issued it. How would a lawsuit increase the speed with which Apple and AT&T issued a correction? I have to believe not at all. They already are trying, a lawsuit surely wouldn't speed it up.
I am not a corporate (or Apple) fan-boy. In general, big business annoys me, but I just can't see how a class action suit will fix this? I believe your story, and people like yours, posted ANYWHERE that will accept it, will be far more effective in getting the issues resolved then the threat of a $50 million settlement to a company that has $18 BILLION in cash on their balance sheet.
I don't think that Apple have falsely advertised or been deceiving on this particular issue (3G speeds). They did falsely advertise when they said "all parts of the internet [sic] are on [sic] the iPhone"; in the UK they are no longer allowed to show that advert and rightly so.
I would point you to the YouTube video that is available on the Internet that shows the Apple advertisement next to a real IPhone 3G in a area with great (full bars) 3G and see if you still do not think this is false advertising. The ad shows everything, Safari, Contacts, GPS, etc. working perfectly, flawlessly, and very fast. The ad went though a bunch of apps before the real one could finish the first. Now I know advertising, all of it, always tries to show a product in it's best light, but this ad is just completely false, as no IPhone 3G on the planet can do what that ad shows. To me, this is the very definition of false advertising, and borders on outright fraud.
[/QUOTE]No, it is obvious that ATT's 3G network doesn't work properly in many heavily-populated areas of the US. Independent tests have shown there's nothing wrong with the 3G iPhone's 3G.
I must disagree. The tests I believe you refer too were for the antennas in the IPhone 3G and no problem was found. I know from personal testing that the IPhone 3G is slower on the same ATT 3G network than the ATT Tilt. I ran tests, multiple times, with one phone in each hand and took the average. I got 1.45Mbs on the ATT Tilt and 800Kbs on the IPhone 3G. This test is definitive that the IPhone 3G is at least slower on the ATT 3G network in my location than a ATT Tilt. I think, and hope, that it is the firmware in the IPhone 3G that is at fault, and tests by labs have said as much. The IPhone 3G is, according to several tests, asking for too much power from the tower, which causes all the issues people have had. I believe this is closer to the root cause than the ATT network, although the ATT network has many of its own issues.
[/QUOTE]No, you have totally misconstrued the sentiment of many here. It's not "if it doesn't work as you expected, live with it". It's "if it doesn't work as you expected, take it back and demand a refund". Plenty of people have reported getting refunds even beyond the ample 14 day return period.
See my other posts which talks about the success of many which taking their phones back and getting another one.
[/QUOTE]It's clear that anyone having a problem had a problem from the beginning. If everything had been going perfectly, and then after 6 months everything started going wrong, remained wrong for an extended period of time, and Apple/ATT refused to admit error, then a lawsuit would be warranted.
Apple claimed at the onset that the IPhone 3G worked "flawlessly", and worked "seamlessly". This is directly from Steve Jobs himself. I have read no post that claim that in real life either of these are true.
[/QUOTE]No, this is absolutely not the reason. The reason is that people have been happy to buy defective products and then not return them, instead choosing to keep them and whinge instead.
I agree that this is often the case. That was part of my point. Too many people just let it go, and the result is defective products and non-functional services.
[/QUOTE]I'm not sure anyone here is alleging that Apple is perfect. They are far from it.
I agree, but if not perfect what I have read many place Apple about as close as you can get to perfect. The is especially true if you criticize them.
I agree that there's nothing in your post that warranted its removal, however, it's hardly surprising that Apple removes negative comments from its own forums. There are plenty of third-party forums (such as this one) that people can come to and be free from Apple's censorship.[/QUOTE]
I do believe Apple is working on it-they have upgraded the software twice already, and promise a more substantial upgrade this month.
They have to understand, without a lawsuit, how negative this whole issue is. Believe me, they are keenly aware of the negative press and no company that wanted to remain in business would not address it.
I have to believe that if they had a fix that would make it go away TODAY, they would have already issued it. How would a lawsuit increase the speed with which Apple and AT&T issued a correction? I have to believe not at all. They already are trying, a lawsuit surely wouldn't speed it up.
I am not a corporate (or Apple) fan-boy. In general, big business annoys me, but I just can't see how a class action suit will fix this? I believe your story, and people like yours, posted ANYWHERE that will accept it, will be far more effective in getting the issues resolved then the threat of a $50 million settlement to a company that has $18 BILLION in cash on their balance sheet.
I agree with your statement about the money, although they did not become a billion dollar company by not worrying about a few million. With Apple it is their reputation that is most important. If you look from their point of view the only thing we know is that they claim it is only 1% to 2% of people who are having these issues. Now using your same analogy, this means that 98% are perfectly happy, hardly much incentive for them to fix the problem. From the general publics point of view, this is not yet a big issue as it has not been in any, or few if any, of the main stream news outlets.
Looking at it from Apple's position, I could see where they do not consider this a big deal UNLESS it does become a main stream thing, something they would want to prevent at most any cost. A law suit, if allowed to go class action, WILL put it in the main stream and then Apple's reputation is at risk. Unfortunately, this is sometimes the only way to get a big companies attention.
Apple has released 2 software updates of which nobody knows what they do. 2.0.2 was alleged to be a fix for the 3G problems but has not done so. For all we know, neither addressed any problem except maybe loop holes that would allow someone to install software that was not purchased from or through Apple. Just saying "bug fixes" tells us nothing, which is the other problem with Apple and shows on its face, that they do not consider the issues people are having as being that important. Again, only 2% at most are affected. This is nothing in the big scheme of things, just like 50 million is nothing in a 18 billion dollar company.
Comments
Frivolous law suits should be banished, but you can't sue what doesn't exist.
My only hope is that this law suit of weak speeds will stick against AT & T, so that they will continue to upgrade their network. I find their coverage thin in the Tampa area.
Or Move! Cincinnati seems to have a stable/fast 3G network.
I'm getting 4.5 times the speed on 3G as I was on EDGE, I'm approaching WiFi speeds in some cases, the only dropped call I got was in the middle of a WalMart, I just had no signal.
Still by far the best technology investment I've ever made.
</sarcasm>
</sarcasm>
apple should pay up, and then blacklist them from ever buying an apple product for the rest of their lives. as well as their descendants.
Dude, that's a bit harsh
Yeah it eluded me... loser...
The real losers are people like this guy who, for lack of real arguments, resort to personal insults. His self-inflated ego just can't handle that the reality is different than what he'd like it to be, and that people have the right to an opinion.
His worst case scenario? Quit AT&T and pay the (still too high but no where near $2,000) $175 termination fee. And that is unlikely if he raises a stink.
Of course Mr. Enigmafan's knowledge doesn't extend as far as his iPhone's coverage to things like *the true cost of the iPhone* over a year:
http://www.centernetworks.com/true-cost-of-the-iphone
If someone - a person or a company- has lied to you about a product, you should be able to take the necessary actions to be compensated for that. It doesn't matter if it's Apple or any other entity. Deceiving and lying to someone for profit is unacceptable. And the Justice System is designed to serve those kinds of situations. It's as simple as that.
The "why don't they return it" argument doesn't work. During the limited trial period someone may want to still give the device a chance in the hope the problem will be remedied.
I live in NYC and the 3G connection on the phone has been terrible. In most places in NYC, it hasn't been working at all. Initially I was using the phone mostly inside the house where it would pick up the wi-fi.
Complaining to AT&T was useless - they acted as if they were blissfully unaware of any problems and sent me to Apple.
I do believe it's mainly AT&T's fault (not the iPhone's), and yet Apple was involved in the deal and advertising so it bears its share of responsibility for these problems.
I wouldn't be surprised if the plaintiff of this lawsuit didn't even have an iphone , but feels entitled to thousands of dollars just incase he gets one. the stability of his Ibeer or i-light app is very important!
This is not directed toward any particular person or post but is just a general statement.
It is about time that somebody hold Apple and ATT accountable for their deception, false advertising, and possibly even fraud. It is obvious that the IPhone 3G does NOT work as advertised, not even close to it. Apple nor ATT have even admitted there is a problem, and until and unless somebody holds them accountable they will not. The first step to fixing a problem is to admit you have one. Too many people in this world have the attitude that some seem to have on this forum, that of - well if it doesn't work just get over it, live with it, stop complaining. Hog wash.
This is the reason that big companies have been able for years to produce defective products and provide services that don't work and get away with it. I am glad to see these law suits and hope they end up teaching the alleged perfect company Apple a lesson. They are so arrogant that they removed the following post I posted on the Apple discussion forum claiming - "because it contained language or comments that were inappropriate". There is NOTHING that was inappropriate in this post. The post contained the words "The IPhone 3G is junk" because I quoted this post by someone else, that was also removed.
If you say anything negative toward the IPhone 3G or Apple your post will be removed. Several other posts were not only inappropriate but threatening but positive toward Apple and were not removed. Note that the quote from another person in my quote below were I was called a liar, affectively called stupid, and basically told to shut up, was NOT removed. The arrogance and hypocrisy. If one is open minded and fair, and not biased toward Apple, they will find nothing inappropriate with the following post-
=======
How would you know what is accurate and what is not? The answer is you don't. You even have problems with simple math yet we are to take your comments as gold.
I stated in another post, that someone else started and looks to have been removed because its title was something like "The IPhone 3G is junk", that "Who in the world would not be bitter with a phone that cost them $500.00 that claimed to be the best most fantastic phone ever created by man, that "just DOESN"T work"
You wrote: "If you had actually bought an iPhone, you would know that it costs $300 (max). It's obvious to anyone with a 3 digit IQ that you didn't, and probably never used any Mac product. Take your MS trolling BS elsewhere."
First, everything I write is my own experience with my IPhone 3G which I bought on the second day of release. Second if you could add you would see - $324.00 - 16GB IPhone 3G with tax $39.00 - Activation Fee $40.00 - Case to protect the IPhone 3G $69.00 - Mobile Me $40.00 - Dock since it doesn't come with one
$512.00 - Total. This does not count the $240.00 over 2 years just to get text. So you should learn to add. Note that you statement said $300.00 MAX. This alone, not to mention many of your other posts, shows how little you know about the subject. I can assure you with complete confidence that my IQ overwhelms yours. Of this I am certain. I can also tell you that my experience in this field does as well.
Finally, I am not going anywhere. If you do not like what I write then don't read it. I can safely say that anyone who acts on your opinion does so at their own risk. And by the way, nobody really knows how accurate the article is.
You, and the other "Apple worshiper - anilsudhakaran", and all the others, will just have to get used to people complaining about the IPhone 3G. We are NOT going away no matter how much you want us to. The multitude of problems with the IPhone 3G will be brought out, and brought out continually despite you or any other worshiper, and will continue until they are fixed.
The Omega
It is about time that somebody hold Apple and ATT accountable for their deception, false advertising
I don't think that Apple have falsely advertised or been deceiving on this particular issue (3G speeds). They did falsely advertise when they said "all parts of the internet [sic] are on [sic] the iPhone"; in the UK they are no longer allowed to show that advert and rightly so.
It is obvious that the IPhone 3G does NOT work as advertised, not even close to it.
No, it is obvious that ATT's 3G network doesn't work properly in many heavily-populated areas of the US. Independent tests have shown there's nothing wrong with the 3G iPhone's 3G.
Too many people in this world have the attitude that some seem to have on this forum, that of - well if it doesn't work just get over it, live with it, stop complaining. Hog wash.
No, you have totally misconstrued the sentiment of many here. It's not "if it doesn't work as you expected, live with it". It's "if it doesn't work as you expected, take it back and demand a refund". Plenty of people have reported getting refunds even beyond the ample 14 day return period.
It's clear that anyone having a problem had a problem from the beginning. If everything had been going perfectly, and then after 6 months everything started going wrong, remained wrong for an extended period of time, and Apple/ATT refused to admit error, then a lawsuit would be warranted.
This is the reason that big companies have been able for years to produce defective products and provide services that don't work and get away with it.
No, this is absolutely not the reason. The reason is that people have been happy to buy defective products and then not return them, instead choosing to keep them and whinge instead.
I am glad to see these law suits and hope they end up teaching the alleged perfect company Apple a lesson.
I'm not sure anyone here is alleging that Apple is perfect. They are far from it.
They are so arrogant that they removed the following post I posted on the Apple discussion forum
I agree that there's nothing in your post that warranted its removal, however, it's hardly surprising that Apple removes negative comments from its own forums. There are plenty of third-party forums (such as this one) that people can come to and be free from Apple's censorship.
Of course Mr. Enigmafan's knowledge doesn't extend as far as his iPhone's coverage to things like *the true cost of the iPhone* over a year:
http://www.centernetworks.com/true-cost-of-the-iphone
Yep you got me! I don't pay the bill for 2 of the phones each month-Damn wish I was as smart as you were... That AT&T bill that arrives each month-I just pay it but I am too stupid (with my degree in accounting and my CPA license) to figure the true cost.
My point was, a stack of money into some Attorney's pockets isn't going to fix anything, especially when these "settlements" generally result in no accepting of liability on the defendant's part-Guess you were not smart enough to actually READ my posts...
Incidentally, I do think AT&T blows-I hate the fact that in this country we try to fix every problem by extorting money from businesses-and in my line of work-I see it ALL THE TIME.
By the way, Mr Rocket Scientist-the article that hyperlink points to applies to the 2G version-did YOU even read it?
This is not directed toward any particular person or post but is just a general statement.
It is about time that somebody hold Apple and ATT accountable for their deception, false advertising, and possibly even fraud. It is obvious that the IPhone 3G does NOT work as advertised, not even close to it. Apple nor ATT have even admitted there is a problem, and until and unless somebody holds them accountable they will not. The first step to fixing a problem is to admit you have one. Too many people in this world have the attitude that some seem to have on this forum, that of - well if it doesn't work just get over it, live with it, stop complaining. Hog wash.
This is the reason that big companies have been able for years to produce defective products and provide services that don't work and get away with it. I am glad to see these law suits and hope they end up teaching the alleged perfect company Apple a lesson. They are so arrogant that they removed the following post I posted on the Apple discussion forum claiming - "because it contained language or comments that were inappropriate". There is NOTHING that was inappropriate in this post. The post contained the words "The IPhone 3G is junk" because I quoted this post by someone else, that was also removed.
If you say anything negative toward the IPhone 3G or Apple your post will be removed. Several other posts were not only inappropriate but threatening but positive toward Apple and were not removed. Note that the quote from another person in my quote below were I was called a liar, affectively called stupid, and basically told to shut up, was NOT removed. The arrogance and hypocrisy. If one is open minded and fair, and not biased toward Apple, they will find nothing inappropriate with the following post-
=======
How would you know what is accurate and what is not? The answer is you don't. You even have problems with simple math yet we are to take your comments as gold.
I stated in another post, that someone else started and looks to have been removed because its title was something like "The IPhone 3G is junk", that "Who in the world would not be bitter with a phone that cost them $500.00 that claimed to be the best most fantastic phone ever created by man, that "just DOESN"T work"
You wrote: "If you had actually bought an iPhone, you would know that it costs $300 (max). It's obvious to anyone with a 3 digit IQ that you didn't, and probably never used any Mac product. Take your MS trolling BS elsewhere."
First, everything I write is my own experience with my IPhone 3G which I bought on the second day of release. Second if you could add you would see - $324.00 - 16GB IPhone 3G with tax $39.00 - Activation Fee $40.00 - Case to protect the IPhone 3G $69.00 - Mobile Me $40.00 - Dock since it doesn't come with one
$512.00 - Total. This does not count the $240.00 over 2 years just to get text. So you should learn to add. Note that you statement said $300.00 MAX. This alone, not to mention many of your other posts, shows how little you know about the subject. I can assure you with complete confidence that my IQ overwhelms yours. Of this I am certain. I can also tell you that my experience in this field does as well.
Finally, I am not going anywhere. If you do not like what I write then don't read it. I can safely say that anyone who acts on your opinion does so at their own risk. And by the way, nobody really knows how accurate the article is.
You, and the other "Apple worshiper - anilsudhakaran", and all the others, will just have to get used to people complaining about the IPhone 3G. We are NOT going away no matter how much you want us to. The multitude of problems with the IPhone 3G will be brought out, and brought out continually despite you or any other worshiper, and will continue until they are fixed.
The Omega
I think it is totally appropriate to complain about legitimate issues. If no one said anything, nothing would ever get fixed. Apple and AT&T need to know there are problems, so please, DO NOT quit informing people of them!
I do NOT think it is appropriate to SUE Apple over it-Maybe AT&T though that seems a little like a lost cause as most class members end up with a $15 payment if they are lucky, while some lackey attorneys pocket millions. And I just don't see how a $15 settlement (or even a larger amount like $300-which will NEVER HAPPEN) is going to fix anything. The only results might be a change in advertising (doubtful). There is no way a lawsuit can compel a company to spend millions of dollars on R&D or, in this case, a network upgrade. So a class action suit will fix NOTHING, and, speaking only for myself, is the whole point of the counter-lawsuit argument.
1) If 3G is not working shut it off: I would venture to say that of all the reasons people bought a IPhone 3G getting 3G speeds would be at the top of the list. They are being advised to shut off 3G when it doesn't work. Of course, they must continue to pay for it.
2) Restore your phone: Any problem that a customer has that they do not know how to fix, their suggestion is to restore, which bascially means to start all over. Many people have done this many times to no avail.
3) Take it to an Apple Genius: From the experiences I have read of people following this recommendation, few have had their problems solved. The cost in time, gas, and inconvenience of the customer, some of which have done this several times, is never considered.
4) Take it to Apple for a replacement: From the data collected directly from customers who have done this, most received "new" phones that either were just as bad or in many cases worse than the ones they had. Of course, they have to start all over with this "solution" as well. Some number of phones, no one but possibly Apple knows how many or which ones, are defective (I believe they all are defective in the firware/software they contain), so replacing your non-working IPhone 3G is just as likely to cause you more problems. This is a gamble at best.
5) Quit complaining about a "early release product": I have news for those who think this, the IPhone 3G was placed in stores for sale as a Production product, not an early release product. Nowhere does Apple or ATT state that this is something less than a full production worthy product. Quite the contrary, it is advertised as being flawless.
I could go on, but I think I have made my point. We are suppose to just over look all these issues, forget that we are paying for something we are not getting, and heaven forbid don't sue Apple, and why, well because it is Apple after all.
Apple products are no better or worse than most others, including Microsoft's. They should be held accountable, and we the customer (what ever happened to the customer is always right (not Apple is always right)?) should get our products we paid for fixed, the service we continue to pay for fixed, or get full refunds plus cost of dealing with all these issues.
The Omega
I think it is totally appropriate to complain about legitimate issues. If no one said anything, nothing would ever get fixed. Apple and AT&T need to know there are problems, so please, DO NOT quit informing people of them!
I do NOT think it is appropriate to SUE Apple over it-Maybe AT&T though that seems a little like a lost cause as most class members end up with a $15 payment if they are lucky, while some lackey attorneys pocket millions. And I just don't see how a $15 settlement (or even a larger amount like $300-which will NEVER HAPPEN) is going to fix anything. The only results might be a change in advertising (doubtful). There is no way a lawsuit can compel a company to spend millions of dollars on R&D or, in this case, a net work upgrade. So a class action suit will fix NOTHING, and, speaking only for myself, is the whole point of the counter-lawsuit argument.
I don't disagree with your statement. How a lawsuit would help the consumer and hurt Apple is their reputation, which they care a great deal about. And you are right, consumers might get $15.00 or something but multiple that by 3 million and that could cost Apple dearly. The only thing that matters to Apple, or any other company, is money and in some cases like Apple, their reputation. Apple's reputation is why those that are complete Apple supporters no matter what are angry at the law suits. They might hurt Apple's reputation.
To protect their reputation, and save potentially millions of dollars, Apple wil act whereas otherwise they may not. As to them admitting any problem, even law suits may not convince Apple to do that.
Thanks
The Omega
I don't disagree with your statement. How a lawsuit would help the consumer and hurt Apple is their reputation, which they care a great deal about. And you are right, consumers might get $15.00 or something but multiple that by 3 million and that could cost Apple dearly. The only thing that matters to Apple, or any other company, is money and in some cases like Apple, their reputation. Apple's reputation is why those that are complete Apple supporters no matter what are angry at the law suits. They might hurt Apple's reputation.
To protect their reputation, and save potentially millions of dollars, Apple wil act whereas otherwise they may not. As to them admitting any problem, even law suits may not convince Apple to do that.
Thanks
The Omega
I do believe Apple is working on it-they have upgraded the software twice already, and promise a more substantial upgrade this month.
They have to understand, without a lawsuit, how negative this whole issue is. Believe me, they are keenly aware of the negative press and no company that wanted to remain in business would not address it.
I have to believe that if they had a fix that would make it go away TODAY, they would have already issued it. How would a lawsuit increase the speed with which Apple and AT&T issued a correction? I have to believe not at all. They already are trying, a lawsuit surely wouldn't speed it up.
I am not a corporate (or Apple) fan-boy. In general, big business annoys me, but I just can't see how a class action suit will fix this? I believe your story, and people like yours, posted ANYWHERE that will accept it, will be far more effective in getting the issues resolved then the threat of a $50 million settlement to a company that has $18 BILLION in cash on their balance sheet.
I don't think that Apple have falsely advertised or been deceiving on this particular issue (3G speeds). They did falsely advertise when they said "all parts of the internet [sic] are on [sic] the iPhone"; in the UK they are no longer allowed to show that advert and rightly so.
I would point you to the YouTube video that is available on the Internet that shows the Apple advertisement next to a real IPhone 3G in a area with great (full bars) 3G and see if you still do not think this is false advertising. The ad shows everything, Safari, Contacts, GPS, etc. working perfectly, flawlessly, and very fast. The ad went though a bunch of apps before the real one could finish the first. Now I know advertising, all of it, always tries to show a product in it's best light, but this ad is just completely false, as no IPhone 3G on the planet can do what that ad shows. To me, this is the very definition of false advertising, and borders on outright fraud.
[/QUOTE]No, it is obvious that ATT's 3G network doesn't work properly in many heavily-populated areas of the US. Independent tests have shown there's nothing wrong with the 3G iPhone's 3G.
I must disagree. The tests I believe you refer too were for the antennas in the IPhone 3G and no problem was found. I know from personal testing that the IPhone 3G is slower on the same ATT 3G network than the ATT Tilt. I ran tests, multiple times, with one phone in each hand and took the average. I got 1.45Mbs on the ATT Tilt and 800Kbs on the IPhone 3G. This test is definitive that the IPhone 3G is at least slower on the ATT 3G network in my location than a ATT Tilt. I think, and hope, that it is the firmware in the IPhone 3G that is at fault, and tests by labs have said as much. The IPhone 3G is, according to several tests, asking for too much power from the tower, which causes all the issues people have had. I believe this is closer to the root cause than the ATT network, although the ATT network has many of its own issues.
[/QUOTE]No, you have totally misconstrued the sentiment of many here. It's not "if it doesn't work as you expected, live with it". It's "if it doesn't work as you expected, take it back and demand a refund". Plenty of people have reported getting refunds even beyond the ample 14 day return period.
See my other posts which talks about the success of many which taking their phones back and getting another one.
[/QUOTE]It's clear that anyone having a problem had a problem from the beginning. If everything had been going perfectly, and then after 6 months everything started going wrong, remained wrong for an extended period of time, and Apple/ATT refused to admit error, then a lawsuit would be warranted.
Apple claimed at the onset that the IPhone 3G worked "flawlessly", and worked "seamlessly". This is directly from Steve Jobs himself. I have read no post that claim that in real life either of these are true.
[/QUOTE]No, this is absolutely not the reason. The reason is that people have been happy to buy defective products and then not return them, instead choosing to keep them and whinge instead.
I agree that this is often the case. That was part of my point. Too many people just let it go, and the result is defective products and non-functional services.
[/QUOTE]I'm not sure anyone here is alleging that Apple is perfect. They are far from it.
I agree, but if not perfect what I have read many place Apple about as close as you can get to perfect. The is especially true if you criticize them.
I agree that there's nothing in your post that warranted its removal, however, it's hardly surprising that Apple removes negative comments from its own forums. There are plenty of third-party forums (such as this one) that people can come to and be free from Apple's censorship.[/QUOTE]
Thank you.
The Omega
I do believe Apple is working on it-they have upgraded the software twice already, and promise a more substantial upgrade this month.
They have to understand, without a lawsuit, how negative this whole issue is. Believe me, they are keenly aware of the negative press and no company that wanted to remain in business would not address it.
I have to believe that if they had a fix that would make it go away TODAY, they would have already issued it. How would a lawsuit increase the speed with which Apple and AT&T issued a correction? I have to believe not at all. They already are trying, a lawsuit surely wouldn't speed it up.
I am not a corporate (or Apple) fan-boy. In general, big business annoys me, but I just can't see how a class action suit will fix this? I believe your story, and people like yours, posted ANYWHERE that will accept it, will be far more effective in getting the issues resolved then the threat of a $50 million settlement to a company that has $18 BILLION in cash on their balance sheet.
I agree with your statement about the money, although they did not become a billion dollar company by not worrying about a few million. With Apple it is their reputation that is most important. If you look from their point of view the only thing we know is that they claim it is only 1% to 2% of people who are having these issues. Now using your same analogy, this means that 98% are perfectly happy, hardly much incentive for them to fix the problem. From the general publics point of view, this is not yet a big issue as it has not been in any, or few if any, of the main stream news outlets.
Looking at it from Apple's position, I could see where they do not consider this a big deal UNLESS it does become a main stream thing, something they would want to prevent at most any cost. A law suit, if allowed to go class action, WILL put it in the main stream and then Apple's reputation is at risk. Unfortunately, this is sometimes the only way to get a big companies attention.
Apple has released 2 software updates of which nobody knows what they do. 2.0.2 was alleged to be a fix for the 3G problems but has not done so. For all we know, neither addressed any problem except maybe loop holes that would allow someone to install software that was not purchased from or through Apple. Just saying "bug fixes" tells us nothing, which is the other problem with Apple and shows on its face, that they do not consider the issues people are having as being that important. Again, only 2% at most are affected. This is nothing in the big scheme of things, just like 50 million is nothing in a 18 billion dollar company.
Thanks
The Omega