Apple's decisions are always built on what customers are buying. People are buying more Nanos then anything else. As far as the Zune having a better interface goes, that is a matter of perspective. To me, it seems like a copy of Apple's interface done up a bit with unnecessary graphics. If you do a Google search, you'll find amny who agree. Moreover, Apple's classic iPod still has a lot going for it that the Zune doesn't. For instance, you can use the classic iPod as a hardrive, it has an alarm clock, you can sync photos and video to a television. Finally, the Zune has no accessories compared to the iPod which has thousands.
OK, one last thing. I haven't checked out the new Zune's wireless features, but the first and second generation stunk. Whenever you tried to squirt a song to somebody or vice verse you'd get an annoying message not allowing that song to be shared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass
Agreed.
With the Zune update today, Microsoft seems to have a better product at the same price now if you compare the Zune 120 to the iPod classic. Same price and size, but the Zune has built in radio, wireless and a much better interface...
I guess Apple has made the decision that the iPod classic with it's hard drive is not worth the trouble anymore and will let Microsoft and other companies take over that part of the market.
They're gambling a bit that the Touch/Nano combo is the future of MP3's and that flash is the way forward. Meanwhile, we'll just have to wait for flash memory to get a lot cheaper before we get really high-capacity portable players, it seems...
Very disappointing that the Nanos seem to be the same capacity as previously (also on par with Zune)...
I don't know, I think the zune looks pretty cool with the (free) laser engraving, for example: <snip> <snip>
Yes... That does look quite cool. Hopefully we will be able to do something similar to the iPod, soon. And maybe be able to use own bicolor (black & white) images. Ha. Now that would be cool.
I'm surprised there hasn't been one complaint about the glass on the Nano. People certainly complained about on the iPhone. I know mine would get banged up quite a bit when used at the gym.
I'm also surprised that no one is complaining that Apple finally put a voice recorder into one of their iPods.
PS: I just realized that the Nano doesn't come with Nike+ BT built-in, like the Touch. Sucks that you still need that clip hanging off of it.
With the Zune update today, Microsoft seems to have a better product at the same price now if you compare the Zune 120 to the iPod classic. Same price and size, but the Zune has built in radio, wireless and a much better interface...
I guess Apple has made the decision that the iPod classic with it's hard drive is not worth the trouble anymore and will let Microsoft and other companies take over that part of the market.
They're gambling a bit that the Touch/Nano combo is the future of MP3's and that flash is the way forward. Meanwhile, we'll just have to wait for flash memory to get a lot cheaper before we get really high-capacity portable players, it seems...
Very disappointing that the Nanos seem to be the same capacity as previously (also on par with Zune)...
I though the iPods were made for us to get away from the radio? Who wants to listen to radio? 2.3% of the market.. well i guess Zune won that 2.3%. Good for them. Now lets let's put a calculator on it.
They are called playlists - if you have thousands of songs you should really have playlists. Also, the Zune with all the laser engraving I suppose looks cool to you but it looks stupid to me. I'll take the clean shiny back of an iPod any day (let's not get into the scratching argument, I just put a simple clear cover on it so it stays looking nice).
Wi-fi downloading is only useful when you're in a place that allows you access to their WiFi for free. Maybe I don't live in a big enough city but I can't remember the last time I actually stumbled across a place that had honest to God free wi-fi. (I live in the 3rd largest metropolitan area in the country so I'm certainly not out in the middle of no-where).
If you just want a music player to play music you can get a Classic or a Nano - I'm not really sure what you're after here. The Nano isn't full-functioned or innovative?
Also, FLAC wouldn't do a single bit of damage what-so-ever. MS might gain a couple hundred people (you, apparently, included) but the masses just don't give a crap. Hence why they discontinued the 160GB - it just wasn't selling for squat.
As long as the Zune doesn't have iTunes support it will be behind the iPod - that's not some fanboy talk that's just how it works with the masses. Apple hasn't had the best or most feature rich MP3 player on the market for years but yet their market share remains impressively high - that should be proof enough that the masses don't care about features they'll hardly, if ever, use.
This LAZIOR engraving is another 2.3% of the market who really wants it. Its like Getting a tattoo, but you can't make your own, and you have to choose from only few dozens of fugly designs, that EVENTUALLY you'll start to hate.
Well Zune has won that 2.3% of the market. Good for them.
also flash memory dropped between last sept and now ... where is 30% drop ...
i believe it is some other product hate to wait for another event and all the rumor leading to it.
MWSF - new Macs
WWDC - new iPhones
Sep event - new iPods
not sure how the October event going to fit or the 30% margin mystery ...
The last notebook update was February 2008, the one before that was June 2007, before that was October 2006. An 8 month cycle. Next month will be 8 months from February.
Oddly enough, the Quicktime stream window title for the "special event" calls it a keynote. The Apple web page linking to the keynote calls it a special event.
I think it's fair to say that both terms apply, no exclusive-or here.
At least now, the iPod refresh is out of the way, and we can focus on some better reasons for the margin drop.
There have been additional news items that validated my early theory about Google TV coming out soon. NBC Universal coming back to iTunes also makes AppleTV's case to be a Set-top box replacement that much more stronger (cannot imagine Apple and Google running a TV service without NBC, can you?). I think the way it played out, was that NBC Universal was approached by Google and Apple about the launch of Google TV - and NBC realized that if they were left out of Google TV, they would be the losers. So they ate humble pie, and signed on to iTunes again. The fact that NBC is now offering lower priced shows, and entire seasons on iTunes at lower prices, suggests that Apple drove a hard bargain - net result, customer gets a great deal. NBC got none of the premium pricing it wanted, and actually ended up lowering the average price per show.
Out of all of Apple's revenue lines, we already had changes in iPhone and iPod recently. That leaves Apple TV and the Mac line up. I dont think Mac will see major changes from a software perspective, till Snow Leopard launches. That leaves either hardware changes on Mac, lower prices for the entire Mac range, or the Apple TV as alternatives.
I think lower prices on the Mac range dont make too much sense - there is'nt much point in announcing this, just after the Back To School ends - the negative publicity from that is just not worth it. If the Mac is refreshed with better hardware specs, at the same price points, then yes - it would qualify. But I can only think of BluRay as the cause of that - though Apple is on the Blu-Ray panel, Blu-Ray just does not fit in with everything that Apple is trying to achieve. It is a step back from the online content store that Apple has created with iTunes. I doubt if Blu-Ray is a big priority for Apple (to the extent of sacrificing their profit margins to include Blu-Ray in their entire range). The other possible hardware change is custom chips, from their PA Semi acquisition - but there is no way a custom chip would lower their margin so much. In any case, one would assume that the custom chip actually helps Apple to further differentiate their product from the PC world, and allow even better margins.
The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to believe that it is Apple TV where the action is going to be. Maybe I am wrong about how this will play out, and whether there will be a tie-up between Apple and Google - though they both look like the perfect fit to create a major shake-up in the TV space. I think this would be too big for either company to do alone.
The 160GB had 2 80GB platters and was thicker as a result, so they dropped the thick one (since "no one" bought them) and kept the thin one which received a storage boost, so they didn't drop it from 160 to 120, they dropped it and upped the capacity on the other one.
It's interesting that a 240GB drive was not introduced that I heard. There's no way to update the $349 model even if they wanted to.
He might have just been talking about how thin the Nano is. Nobody else can duplicate that.
Also, the new iTunes "Genius" is probably a copywrited program, so of course nobody can duplicate that. Of course, i'm not sure how many people want their listening habits constantly tracked by Apple. Any idea if they including anything in the EULA of iTunes regarding sharing listening habits with other companies? I downloaded 8 today, and it all feels ver big-brotherish...
You don't have to share anything with Apple to use the Genius to make playlists from your own music. iTunes 8 gives you the option of sharing you Genius playlists with Apple or not, so it's up to you if you want "big brother" watching.
It also says that anything sent to Apple is "anonymous". I didn't read the whole licensing agreement, so it might be that Apple can share your listening habits if you choose to let them view you playlists, but I'm sure Apple is using the downloading "habits" of people from the iTune store in their marketing, etc.
Anyway, my point is that you can use the Genius without sending information to Apple.
...frankly, I'm not very impressed aside from the capacity increase and switch to widescreen display. I'm staying with my 3G iPod nano (8 GB) for the foreseeable future.
I'm surprised there hasn't been one complaint about the glass on the Nano. People certainly complained about on the iPhone. I know mine would get banged up quite a bit when used at the gym.
I'm also surprised that no one is complaining that Apple finally put a voice recorder into one of their iPods.
PS: I just realized that the Nano doesn't come with Nike+ BT built-in, like the Touch. Sucks that you still need that clip hanging off of it.
Complain, complain, complain.
SOME people complained about the glass on the iPhone. Most don't have any problem with it.
And you're surprised that people are complaining about something that they were complaining that they wanted???? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???
solipsism... I normally agree with what you have to say, which is a lot since you post a lot, but this one is out of left field. Surprised that no one is complaining that they finally got what they been asking for??? this does not compute
...but I'm sure Apple is using the downloading "habits" of people from the iTune store in their marketing, etc.
Anyway, my point is that you can use the Genius without sending information to Apple.
I'd count on it. Didn't Jobs said that Jack Johnson was the most purchased musician with something like 60M DLs? If the most sales on iTunes Store affected who performed at the event, I'd think that granular analysis of exactly what songs we listen to most should give them a lot of marketing ammunition. Are they going to sell this info or only use it internally? My mind is spinning by how much data this is going to provide them. If only Neilsen could get this kind of info about TV viewing habits.
solipsism... I normally agree with what you have to say, which is a lot since you post a lot, but this one is out of left field. Surprised that no one is complaining that they finally got what they been asking for??? this does not compute
I've been all for the glass since it was first rumoured on the iPhone, it's dense and doesn't scratch easily. But I've have so much complaining about it, even after it came out. Doesn't get me wrong, I'm glad people aren't on that anymore, I'm just surprised by since I don't recall any posts asking for a glass Nano screen.
I'd count on it. Didn't Jobs said that Jack Johnson was the most purchased musician with something like 60M DLs. If the most sales on iTunes Store affected who performed at the event, I'd think that granular analysis of exactly what songs we listen to most should give them a lot of marketing ammunition. Are they going to sell this info or only use it internally? I mind is spinning by how much data this is going to provide them. If only Neilsen could get this info about TV viewing habits.
Apple is most definitely going to use our Genius playlists to target the buyers much more effectively. That's a given.
It's just that you don't HAVE to share your Genius playlists if you don't want to. There is the option not to send the info to Apple, and just us the Genius playlists for yourself, it you find them useful.
It doesn't seem like many people are talking about the nano's themselves but I gotta say I really like the new ones, this is what I wanted instead of the "fatboy" nano. I just wish the classic had a longer 3 inch screen like the zune.
The 3G Nano had an all metal case, I'm presuming the top and bottom of the 4G are plastic tabs as on the 2G.
The taller 4G may fit into your hand better but the 3G fits into your pocket more comfortably. More time is spent listening to it then operating it. In landscape mode it will be more awkward to hold than the 3G.
The controls on the 4G are incorrectly orientated when you use it in landscape mode (never thought Apple would accept such a design compromise).
On the 3G the hold switch, docking port and headphone jack are all located on the bottom in a clean symmetrical design. The 4G uses the untidy 2G layout.
The Nano 3G was a classic case of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.
I disagree. The Zune looks like a turd and doesn't work with iTunes, end of discussion.
So it doesn't look as pretty as your iPod. Thanks for the opinion. That doesn't make it any less capable as a player. Why do so many folks buy just for the name on the product? sigh.
I bought my first iPod back when they were not cool. 1st gen 5gb - 1st week they came out. Currently I own the iPod Video 5.5 80Gb. Why? Only one reason. MS has yet to provide support for unicode on their hardware. If they did that, I would switch. This isn't about brand loyalty or fanboism, but a simple fact of life. 90% of my music is in Japanese and the Zune cannot display it. Other than that, I really like the Zune.
Comments
OK, one last thing. I haven't checked out the new Zune's wireless features, but the first and second generation stunk. Whenever you tried to squirt a song to somebody or vice verse you'd get an annoying message not allowing that song to be shared.
Agreed.
With the Zune update today, Microsoft seems to have a better product at the same price now if you compare the Zune 120 to the iPod classic. Same price and size, but the Zune has built in radio, wireless and a much better interface...
I guess Apple has made the decision that the iPod classic with it's hard drive is not worth the trouble anymore and will let Microsoft and other companies take over that part of the market.
They're gambling a bit that the Touch/Nano combo is the future of MP3's and that flash is the way forward. Meanwhile, we'll just have to wait for flash memory to get a lot cheaper before we get really high-capacity portable players, it seems...
Very disappointing that the Nanos seem to be the same capacity as previously (also on par with Zune)...
I don't know, I think the zune looks pretty cool with the (free) laser engraving, for example: <snip> <snip>
Yes... That does look quite cool. Hopefully we will be able to do something similar to the iPod, soon. And maybe be able to use own bicolor (black & white) images. Ha. Now that would be cool.
I'm also surprised that no one is complaining that Apple finally put a voice recorder into one of their iPods.
PS: I just realized that the Nano doesn't come with Nike+ BT built-in, like the Touch. Sucks that you still need that clip hanging off of it.
Agreed.
With the Zune update today, Microsoft seems to have a better product at the same price now if you compare the Zune 120 to the iPod classic. Same price and size, but the Zune has built in radio, wireless and a much better interface...
I guess Apple has made the decision that the iPod classic with it's hard drive is not worth the trouble anymore and will let Microsoft and other companies take over that part of the market.
They're gambling a bit that the Touch/Nano combo is the future of MP3's and that flash is the way forward. Meanwhile, we'll just have to wait for flash memory to get a lot cheaper before we get really high-capacity portable players, it seems...
Very disappointing that the Nanos seem to be the same capacity as previously (also on par with Zune)...
I though the iPods were made for us to get away from the radio? Who wants to listen to radio? 2.3% of the market.. well i guess Zune won that 2.3%. Good for them. Now lets let's put a calculator on it.
They are called playlists - if you have thousands of songs you should really have playlists. Also, the Zune with all the laser engraving I suppose looks cool to you but it looks stupid to me. I'll take the clean shiny back of an iPod any day (let's not get into the scratching argument, I just put a simple clear cover on it so it stays looking nice).
Wi-fi downloading is only useful when you're in a place that allows you access to their WiFi for free. Maybe I don't live in a big enough city but I can't remember the last time I actually stumbled across a place that had honest to God free wi-fi. (I live in the 3rd largest metropolitan area in the country so I'm certainly not out in the middle of no-where).
If you just want a music player to play music you can get a Classic or a Nano - I'm not really sure what you're after here. The Nano isn't full-functioned or innovative?
Also, FLAC wouldn't do a single bit of damage what-so-ever. MS might gain a couple hundred people (you, apparently, included) but the masses just don't give a crap. Hence why they discontinued the 160GB - it just wasn't selling for squat.
As long as the Zune doesn't have iTunes support it will be behind the iPod - that's not some fanboy talk that's just how it works with the masses. Apple hasn't had the best or most feature rich MP3 player on the market for years but yet their market share remains impressively high - that should be proof enough that the masses don't care about features they'll hardly, if ever, use.
This LAZIOR engraving is another 2.3% of the market who really wants it. Its like Getting a tattoo, but you can't make your own, and you have to choose from only few dozens of fugly designs, that EVENTUALLY you'll start to hate.
Well Zune has won that 2.3% of the market. Good for them.
also flash memory dropped between last sept and now ... where is 30% drop ...
i believe it is some other product hate to wait for another event and all the rumor leading to it.
MWSF - new Macs
WWDC - new iPhones
Sep event - new iPods
not sure how the October event going to fit or the 30% margin mystery ...
The last notebook update was February 2008, the one before that was June 2007, before that was October 2006. An 8 month cycle. Next month will be 8 months from February.
It wasn't keynote. It was a "special event".
Oddly enough, the Quicktime stream window title for the "special event" calls it a keynote. The Apple web page linking to the keynote calls it a special event.
I think it's fair to say that both terms apply, no exclusive-or here.
There have been additional news items that validated my early theory about Google TV coming out soon. NBC Universal coming back to iTunes also makes AppleTV's case to be a Set-top box replacement that much more stronger (cannot imagine Apple and Google running a TV service without NBC, can you?). I think the way it played out, was that NBC Universal was approached by Google and Apple about the launch of Google TV - and NBC realized that if they were left out of Google TV, they would be the losers. So they ate humble pie, and signed on to iTunes again. The fact that NBC is now offering lower priced shows, and entire seasons on iTunes at lower prices, suggests that Apple drove a hard bargain - net result, customer gets a great deal. NBC got none of the premium pricing it wanted, and actually ended up lowering the average price per show.
Out of all of Apple's revenue lines, we already had changes in iPhone and iPod recently. That leaves Apple TV and the Mac line up. I dont think Mac will see major changes from a software perspective, till Snow Leopard launches. That leaves either hardware changes on Mac, lower prices for the entire Mac range, or the Apple TV as alternatives.
I think lower prices on the Mac range dont make too much sense - there is'nt much point in announcing this, just after the Back To School ends - the negative publicity from that is just not worth it. If the Mac is refreshed with better hardware specs, at the same price points, then yes - it would qualify. But I can only think of BluRay as the cause of that - though Apple is on the Blu-Ray panel, Blu-Ray just does not fit in with everything that Apple is trying to achieve. It is a step back from the online content store that Apple has created with iTunes. I doubt if Blu-Ray is a big priority for Apple (to the extent of sacrificing their profit margins to include Blu-Ray in their entire range). The other possible hardware change is custom chips, from their PA Semi acquisition - but there is no way a custom chip would lower their margin so much. In any case, one would assume that the custom chip actually helps Apple to further differentiate their product from the PC world, and allow even better margins.
The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to believe that it is Apple TV where the action is going to be. Maybe I am wrong about how this will play out, and whether there will be a tie-up between Apple and Google - though they both look like the perfect fit to create a major shake-up in the TV space. I think this would be too big for either company to do alone.
The 160GB had 2 80GB platters and was thicker as a result, so they dropped the thick one (since "no one" bought them) and kept the thin one which received a storage boost, so they didn't drop it from 160 to 120, they dropped it and upped the capacity on the other one.
It's interesting that a 240GB drive was not introduced that I heard. There's no way to update the $349 model even if they wanted to.
He might have just been talking about how thin the Nano is. Nobody else can duplicate that.
Also, the new iTunes "Genius" is probably a copywrited program, so of course nobody can duplicate that. Of course, i'm not sure how many people want their listening habits constantly tracked by Apple. Any idea if they including anything in the EULA of iTunes regarding sharing listening habits with other companies? I downloaded 8 today, and it all feels ver big-brotherish...
You don't have to share anything with Apple to use the Genius to make playlists from your own music. iTunes 8 gives you the option of sharing you Genius playlists with Apple or not, so it's up to you if you want "big brother" watching.
It also says that anything sent to Apple is "anonymous". I didn't read the whole licensing agreement, so it might be that Apple can share your listening habits if you choose to let them view you playlists, but I'm sure Apple is using the downloading "habits" of people from the iTune store in their marketing, etc.
Anyway, my point is that you can use the Genius without sending information to Apple.
It's interesting that a 240GB drive was not introduced that I heard. There's no way to update the $349 model even if they wanted to.
Toshiba introduced the new drives today.
Toshiba 1.8-inch hard drive hits the 240GB mark
I'm surprised there hasn't been one complaint about the glass on the Nano. People certainly complained about on the iPhone. I know mine would get banged up quite a bit when used at the gym.
I'm also surprised that no one is complaining that Apple finally put a voice recorder into one of their iPods.
PS: I just realized that the Nano doesn't come with Nike+ BT built-in, like the Touch. Sucks that you still need that clip hanging off of it.
Complain, complain, complain.
SOME people complained about the glass on the iPhone. Most don't have any problem with it.
And you're surprised that people are complaining about something that they were complaining that they wanted???? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???
solipsism... I normally agree with what you have to say, which is a lot since you post a lot, but this one is out of left field. Surprised that no one is complaining that they finally got what they been asking for??? this does not compute
...but I'm sure Apple is using the downloading "habits" of people from the iTune store in their marketing, etc.
Anyway, my point is that you can use the Genius without sending information to Apple.
I'd count on it. Didn't Jobs said that Jack Johnson was the most purchased musician with something like 60M DLs? If the most sales on iTunes Store affected who performed at the event, I'd think that granular analysis of exactly what songs we listen to most should give them a lot of marketing ammunition. Are they going to sell this info or only use it internally? My mind is spinning by how much data this is going to provide them. If only Neilsen could get this kind of info about TV viewing habits.
solipsism... I normally agree with what you have to say, which is a lot since you post a lot, but this one is out of left field. Surprised that no one is complaining that they finally got what they been asking for??? this does not compute
I've been all for the glass since it was first rumoured on the iPhone, it's dense and doesn't scratch easily. But I've have so much complaining about it, even after it came out. Doesn't get me wrong, I'm glad people aren't on that anymore, I'm just surprised by since I don't recall any posts asking for a glass Nano screen.
I'd count on it. Didn't Jobs said that Jack Johnson was the most purchased musician with something like 60M DLs. If the most sales on iTunes Store affected who performed at the event, I'd think that granular analysis of exactly what songs we listen to most should give them a lot of marketing ammunition. Are they going to sell this info or only use it internally? I mind is spinning by how much data this is going to provide them. If only Neilsen could get this info about TV viewing habits.
Apple is most definitely going to use our Genius playlists to target the buyers much more effectively. That's a given.
It's just that you don't HAVE to share your Genius playlists if you don't want to. There is the option not to send the info to Apple, and just us the Genius playlists for yourself, it you find them useful.
The 3G Nano had an all metal case, I'm presuming the top and bottom of the 4G are plastic tabs as on the 2G.
The taller 4G may fit into your hand better but the 3G fits into your pocket more comfortably. More time is spent listening to it then operating it. In landscape mode it will be more awkward to hold than the 3G.
The controls on the 4G are incorrectly orientated when you use it in landscape mode (never thought Apple would accept such a design compromise).
On the 3G the hold switch, docking port and headphone jack are all located on the bottom in a clean symmetrical design. The 4G uses the untidy 2G layout.
The Nano 3G was a classic case of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.
No offense guy, but Jobs said it in the keynote.
"no one buys (them"
You are in a tiny minority of users unfortunately for you.
1. No one is a blanket comment is inaccurate. I bought one.
2. We are in a minority. I accept that.
3. Why is this unfortunate?
???
I disagree. The Zune looks like a turd and doesn't work with iTunes, end of discussion.
So it doesn't look as pretty as your iPod. Thanks for the opinion. That doesn't make it any less capable as a player. Why do so many folks buy just for the name on the product? sigh.
I bought my first iPod back when they were not cool. 1st gen 5gb - 1st week they came out. Currently I own the iPod Video 5.5 80Gb. Why? Only one reason. MS has yet to provide support for unicode on their hardware. If they did that, I would switch. This isn't about brand loyalty or fanboism, but a simple fact of life. 90% of my music is in Japanese and the Zune cannot display it. Other than that, I really like the Zune.