The people I talk with think the iPhone is passé at this point. It really is just another cellphone. Get used to it. Most other manufacturers have already caught up or are catching up and surpassing the iPhone.
Not even close. The buzz for the iPhone is still building. The only thing that will make the iPhone passe is if they don't expand to other carriers. They haven't reached the limit of their current partners yet, but eventually they will.
We are talking about phone companies that still churn out phones with clumsy interfaces and loads of poorly implemented proprietary features. Suddenly, Android turns them into sleek, trendsetting market leaders?
Problem is, 90% of the population doesn't give a rat's ass about poorly implemented features. Look how successful Windows has been. So anything that remotely approaches Apple's iPhone in functionality could do well.
There's enough of a market for many to succeed. I suspect Android will certainly help the many cellphone manufacturers who have been saddled with really really bad interfaces.
I'd hardly consider 42 the age of a Sad Senior Citizen.
It doesn't matter what Apple did yesterday. The market and business is what can you do today. Apple hasn't shown much in the Mobile OS market other than one blunder after another since the 3G came out. That is where Market Share is won.
It's a posting like yours that is going to lead to the demise (that would be "the end" for you OMG text fans) of Apple as a Phone OS.
Following every step Apple makes as the "Gospel".
I have said it many times on the boards. I'm a FAN of technology not a fan of a Vendor. Apple has just had the superior products.
The Video market is jumping Ship with Apple (as of today) because they fear Apple will create the same Monopoly (that would be the majority of the market OMG) they did with iTunes.
The market is tired of Apple being a closed loop and so am I.
And Yes I would jump ship if a better phone with an OS that is as user friendly and gave more freedom to it?s developers.
Remember. I?m old and can afford to jump ship when that day comes.
Edit.
I define GPS as a usable turn by turn voice navigation as every other phone manufacturer does.
A dot on a map does nothing when you're driving alone.
The basic problem with one software platform designed to run on multiple hardware manufacturers: Complexity run amuck.
There's this basic unresolved and unresolvable conflict between the software company (MS for Windows, Google for Android) and the hardware manufacturers (PCs, smartphones). The software provider wants the client hardware to be as undifferentiated as possible across manufacturers so that they only need to develop one universal version. OTOH no hardware manufacturer will agree to commoditize their product so they will push for as much differentiation as possible. The result of course is that the software platform becomes more and more complex as it seeks to accommodate each manufacturer's idiosyncratic features in that one universal platform --leading to a level of complexity that is so unmanageable that it bogs down the platform's whole ecosystem.
Android may work great early on but as the number of Android smartphone models rise, the Android platform will just keep getting more complex, more buggy, and more bloated until one day people will be complaining "Why can't Android be more like iPhone?"
People are getting this Japan story completely wrong. The iPhone is selling well in Japan just not in the same numbers as the US or Europe. According to estimates Apple has made nearly half a billion in revenue from Japan alone. That is not failure.
Exactly which phones have caught up to the iPhone? Exactly what way have they caught up?
iPhone is doing bad in japan. Let'sgive apple the benefit of the doubt and say they have sold 300,000 which they haven't. On one single Japanese mobile carrier that has 19,000,000 customers that is all it has sold. That's not that good. A success would be a phone like the first razor or the blackberry. Phones that have sold millions. In japan sharp is one of the leading phones. Anyway... I hve the 3g but I am excited to see if the android is worth buying I hate the iPhone. I almost never have 3g... In LA it drops down to 0 bars in buildings so apples slogan should be... "iPhone 3g, twice has fast, half the time" it would be more true. The gps is very inaccurate. I get to a streeet 10-15 seconds before the blue dot. Sometimes it won't even find me. Anyway Woot go google I can't wait to see if your a good phone. Though I do like AT&T more than tmobile. T mobile had poor (non 3g) service when I had them but that was 5 years ago
I define GPS as a usable turn by turn voice navigation as every other phone manufacturer does.
A dot on a map does nothing when you're driving alone.
That's not a good definition for a GPS. Most GPS's on the market for handheld use don't do that either. Neither do most phones that include GPS.
If you want to say "automotive navigation device using GPS", then no, so far, it isn't that. You can get a couple of cheap programs that turn it into a handheld GPS unit with way points and such. That's also a GPS.
But we do know of at least two companies in that end of the software business that are working on applications for the iPhone that do that.
It doesn't matter what Apple did yesterday. The market and business is what can you do today. Apple hasn't shown much in the Mobile OS market other than one blunder after another since the 3G came out. That is where Market Share is won.
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Over all the iPhone 3G has been well reviewed and received.
I'm not sure what your meaning of marketshare but the iPhone's is growing by leaps and bounds cutting into the marketshare of mobile phone leaders.
Quote:
The Video market is jumping Ship with Apple (as of today) because they fear Apple will create the same Monopoly (that would be the majority of the market OMG) they did with iTunes.
That's not entirely true. iTunes is the largest vendor of video downloads. You are right in that movie studios don't want Apple to have the same control as they have in music. Largely because Apple will not give them the flexibility to raise prices.
Quote:
The market is tired of Apple being a closed loop and so am I.
Anyone is free to compete and come up with a better service.
Quote:
I define GPS as a usable turn by turn voice navigation as every other phone manufacturer does.
A dot on a map does nothing when you're driving alone.
The broad definition of GPS is a receiver that calculates its position through radio signals from a constellation of orbiting satellites. That is the blue dot. Turn by turn navigation is a specific feature that can be implemented supported by GPS.
From what we've heard Apple is still working on the API's that will support turn by turn directions.
iPhone is doing bad in japan. Let'sgive apple the benefit of the doubt and say they have sold 300,000 which they haven't. On one single Japanese mobile carrier that has 19,000,000 customers that is all it has sold. That's not that good. A success would be a phone like the first razor or the blackberry. Phones that have sold millions. In japan sharp is one of the leading phones.
The WSJ story estimates Softbank has sold 200,000 in its first two months with sales slowing since the introduction.
Who ever set the metric that a phone has to sell millions in its first quarter to be a success? What other phone in Japan costing $320 sold millions in its first couple of months? The first Razor nor first Blackberry did not sell millions in their first months of sales.
The WSJ story estimates Softbank has sold 200,000 in its first two months with sales slowing since the introduction.
Who ever set the metric that a phone has to sell millions in its first quarter to be a success? What other phone in Japan costing $320 sold millions in its first couple of months? The first Razor nor first Blackberry did not sell millions in their first months of sales.
I have to agree with you on this one. The US has 2.35 times the population of Japan. So those 200,000 sales would translate out to over 470,000 sales here.
Thats pretty good!
Anyone expecting a runaway hit was off their rocker. I've been saying that it will sell well there, not that it would take over. That's just plain silly.
I have to agree with you on this one. The US has 2.35 times the population of Japan. So those 200,000 sales would translate out to over 470,000 sales here.
Thats pretty good!
Anyone expecting a runaway hit was off their rocker. I've been saying that it will sell well there, not that it would take over. That's just plain silly.
I agree. The WSJ journal article puts it in perspective with Nokia. Nokia holds the largest market share of non-Japanese phones. With a 1% marketshare, 500,000 in sales. 200,000 is really good in comparison.
I think turn-by-turn (assisted) GPS is sooooo basic these days that it should have been fully working on iPhone.
I only wan't to buy a 3G if the gps is fully working and not lagging (seconds) and not depends of any internet connection to get the google-maps ! Then I can throw away the tom-tom-thing away and live my life with only 1 device in my pocket, the iPhone (replacing 3 devices, being: ipod, phone and gps) with the added functionality that applications give me (almost giving my an extra gaming console in my pocket too)... just my idea :-)
I agree. The WSJ journal article puts it in perspective with Nokia. Nokia holds the largest market share of non-Japanese phones. With a 1% marketshare, 500,000 in sales. 200,000 is really good in comparison.
And Nokia is on that market for a decade .... don't forget that too !
How come the iPhone in Japan is barely taking off the ground? The people I talk with think the iPhone is passé at this point. It really is just another cellphone. Get used to it. Most other manufacturers have already caught up or are catching up and surpassing the iPhone.
Don't dismiss the features of the new phones. Apple could certainly learn a thing or two from them.
Apple could learn a few things, but the OP is correct as to the importance of the iPhone's superior interface and ease of use than other smartphones. I've been in this game for ten years, and I certainly agree that the iPhone was a game changer. I've used every "smartphone" OS, and nothing right now comes even close. That is not to say the iPhone is perfect -- far from it. And Apple definitely needs to WAKE UP and start treating their developers better. They need to kill the NDA nonsense and let developers collaborate amongst each other. They also need to better organize the app store to separate great apps from the crapware and lay out an explicit and comprehensive guide for accepting their policies on accepting and rejecting applications to the App store. If they continue to treat developers poorly, many of them will move to other platforms, especially if Android takes off.
As much as I like Google, I love the iPhone and believe mobile OSX is the best platform from a technical and aesthetic standpoint -- Apple just needs to get the heck out of the way and let the developer community do what they do best. I certainly DON'T WANT to see good developers and software companies get discouraged with Apple and have Android leapfrog Apple in popularity and marketshare. We all know exactly what that would look like and the consequences of that. It would be another round of the 1980's-1990's crappy/knock-off but mass market and cheap "Windows PC" vs expensive closed-system Apple Macs.
Apple should focus more on reliability, robustness, and intensive testing. Same goes for OS X and especially OS X Server.
Absolutly. The code they deliver contains more and more bugs that I get more the impression they pull out beta's (look at iPhone OS 2.0 and Leopard's initial release) and try to get it right with a quick update. Looks to my like they can't deliver on time any more. Maybe the actual code-base has swellen to large ? Hopefully they learn the lesson and get a new grip with Snow Leopard. Before they get in the same lane as Microsoft ! We're used to get good software, ad least they got a reputation for that. Bad software gets people complaining about the hardware eventualy... Look what happend with the iPhone 2.0 ! And Apple's still a hardware company, no ?
I think turn-by-turn (assisted) GPS is sooooo basic these days that it should have been fully working on iPhone.
I only wan't to buy a 3G if the gps is fully working and not lagging (seconds) and not depends of any internet connection to get the google-maps ! Then I can throw away the tom-tom-thing away and live my life with only 1 device in my pocket, the iPhone (replacing 3 devices, being: ipod, phone and gps) with the added functionality that applications give me (almost giving my an extra gaming console in my pocket too)... just my idea :-)
No... A-GPS or assissted GPS uses cell towers to help the GPS to get a location faster. What you are all asking for is satellite navigation, or SatNav as the marketing people call it.
For those talking about apple adding the APIs for this, they don't need to. A clever programmer can calculate the velocity using a streamof GPS data. That's all the API will do. I think apple must be holding up satnav features on purpose, maybe because of battery or maybe because or data sizes. I don't know, but the functionality is there.
No... A-GPS or assissted GPS uses cell towers to help the GPS to get a location faster. What you are all asking for is satellite navigation, or SatNav as the marketing people call it.
Isn't this kind of a diversion or unnecessary hair splitting from the perspective of this discussion? I ask this because all the GPS units I've seen lately have a turn-by-turn navigation feature anyway, it's assumed to be a feature that's expected of GPS devices now. From a technical perspective, you're right, but from a consumer perspective, it's missing a very basic feature, I don't think anyone sets out to buy a GPS only to get one that doesn't have dynamic turn-by-turn. These days, it's almost like getting raisin bran without the raisins and still calling it raisin bran.
Quote:
For those talking about apple adding the APIs for this, they don't need to. A clever programmer can calculate the velocity using a streamof GPS data. That's all the API will do. I think apple must be holding up satnav features on purpose, maybe because of battery or maybe because or data sizes. I don't know, but the functionality is there.
The suggestion that it's a battery life issue doesn't work for me. If you're in a car, at least you have a good chance of getting power from the car. Of the other possible issues, I think there may be some negotiations going on with one of the established GPS companies, or the feature is not finished yet. Data size is not a problem. Even a 4GB iPhone should have plenty of room.
That guy talked like a dummy. If they ever expect to sell there product they will surly need to create a Apple similar speech environment. Things we're just to similar to the iPhone also. The customers will see that. \
Comments
Jesus people open your minds. I love how everyone is so quick to criticize something they have no real experience in.
I love my iPhone. But I am always looking for the next best thing... even if it is not made by Apple.
By the way, this phone will not be called the G1, either...
The people I talk with think the iPhone is passé at this point. It really is just another cellphone. Get used to it. Most other manufacturers have already caught up or are catching up and surpassing the iPhone.
Not even close. The buzz for the iPhone is still building. The only thing that will make the iPhone passe is if they don't expand to other carriers. They haven't reached the limit of their current partners yet, but eventually they will.
We are talking about phone companies that still churn out phones with clumsy interfaces and loads of poorly implemented proprietary features. Suddenly, Android turns them into sleek, trendsetting market leaders?
Problem is, 90% of the population doesn't give a rat's ass about poorly implemented features. Look how successful Windows has been. So anything that remotely approaches Apple's iPhone in functionality could do well.
There's enough of a market for many to succeed. I suspect Android will certainly help the many cellphone manufacturers who have been saddled with really really bad interfaces.
I'd hardly consider 42 the age of a Sad Senior Citizen.
It doesn't matter what Apple did yesterday. The market and business is what can you do today. Apple hasn't shown much in the Mobile OS market other than one blunder after another since the 3G came out. That is where Market Share is won.
It's a posting like yours that is going to lead to the demise (that would be "the end" for you OMG text fans) of Apple as a Phone OS.
Following every step Apple makes as the "Gospel".
I have said it many times on the boards. I'm a FAN of technology not a fan of a Vendor. Apple has just had the superior products.
The Video market is jumping Ship with Apple (as of today) because they fear Apple will create the same Monopoly (that would be the majority of the market OMG) they did with iTunes.
The market is tired of Apple being a closed loop and so am I.
And Yes I would jump ship if a better phone with an OS that is as user friendly and gave more freedom to it?s developers.
Remember. I?m old and can afford to jump ship when that day comes.
Edit.
I define GPS as a usable turn by turn voice navigation as every other phone manufacturer does.
A dot on a map does nothing when you're driving alone.
That is NOT GPS.
There's this basic unresolved and unresolvable conflict between the software company (MS for Windows, Google for Android) and the hardware manufacturers (PCs, smartphones). The software provider wants the client hardware to be as undifferentiated as possible across manufacturers so that they only need to develop one universal version. OTOH no hardware manufacturer will agree to commoditize their product so they will push for as much differentiation as possible. The result of course is that the software platform becomes more and more complex as it seeks to accommodate each manufacturer's idiosyncratic features in that one universal platform --leading to a level of complexity that is so unmanageable that it bogs down the platform's whole ecosystem.
Android may work great early on but as the number of Android smartphone models rise, the Android platform will just keep getting more complex, more buggy, and more bloated until one day people will be complaining "Why can't Android be more like iPhone?"
Old story, same ending.
People are getting this Japan story completely wrong. The iPhone is selling well in Japan just not in the same numbers as the US or Europe. According to estimates Apple has made nearly half a billion in revenue from Japan alone. That is not failure.
Exactly which phones have caught up to the iPhone? Exactly what way have they caught up?
iPhone is doing bad in japan. Let'sgive apple the benefit of the doubt and say they have sold 300,000 which they haven't. On one single Japanese mobile carrier that has 19,000,000 customers that is all it has sold. That's not that good. A success would be a phone like the first razor or the blackberry. Phones that have sold millions. In japan sharp is one of the leading phones. Anyway... I hve the 3g but I am excited to see if the android is worth buying I hate the iPhone. I almost never have 3g... In LA it drops down to 0 bars in buildings so apples slogan should be... "iPhone 3g, twice has fast, half the time" it would be more true. The gps is very inaccurate. I get to a streeet 10-15 seconds before the blue dot. Sometimes it won't even find me. Anyway Woot go google I can't wait to see if your a good phone. Though I do like AT&T more than tmobile. T mobile had poor (non 3g) service when I had them but that was 5 years ago
Edit.
I define GPS as a usable turn by turn voice navigation as every other phone manufacturer does.
A dot on a map does nothing when you're driving alone.
That's not a good definition for a GPS. Most GPS's on the market for handheld use don't do that either. Neither do most phones that include GPS.
If you want to say "automotive navigation device using GPS", then no, so far, it isn't that. You can get a couple of cheap programs that turn it into a handheld GPS unit with way points and such. That's also a GPS.
But we do know of at least two companies in that end of the software business that are working on applications for the iPhone that do that.
It doesn't matter what Apple did yesterday. The market and business is what can you do today. Apple hasn't shown much in the Mobile OS market other than one blunder after another since the 3G came out. That is where Market Share is won.
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Over all the iPhone 3G has been well reviewed and received.
I'm not sure what your meaning of marketshare but the iPhone's is growing by leaps and bounds cutting into the marketshare of mobile phone leaders.
The Video market is jumping Ship with Apple (as of today) because they fear Apple will create the same Monopoly (that would be the majority of the market OMG) they did with iTunes.
That's not entirely true. iTunes is the largest vendor of video downloads. You are right in that movie studios don't want Apple to have the same control as they have in music. Largely because Apple will not give them the flexibility to raise prices.
The market is tired of Apple being a closed loop and so am I.
Anyone is free to compete and come up with a better service.
I define GPS as a usable turn by turn voice navigation as every other phone manufacturer does.
A dot on a map does nothing when you're driving alone.
The broad definition of GPS is a receiver that calculates its position through radio signals from a constellation of orbiting satellites. That is the blue dot. Turn by turn navigation is a specific feature that can be implemented supported by GPS.
From what we've heard Apple is still working on the API's that will support turn by turn directions.
iPhone is doing bad in japan. Let'sgive apple the benefit of the doubt and say they have sold 300,000 which they haven't. On one single Japanese mobile carrier that has 19,000,000 customers that is all it has sold. That's not that good. A success would be a phone like the first razor or the blackberry. Phones that have sold millions. In japan sharp is one of the leading phones.
The WSJ story estimates Softbank has sold 200,000 in its first two months with sales slowing since the introduction.
Who ever set the metric that a phone has to sell millions in its first quarter to be a success? What other phone in Japan costing $320 sold millions in its first couple of months? The first Razor nor first Blackberry did not sell millions in their first months of sales.
The WSJ story estimates Softbank has sold 200,000 in its first two months with sales slowing since the introduction.
Who ever set the metric that a phone has to sell millions in its first quarter to be a success? What other phone in Japan costing $320 sold millions in its first couple of months? The first Razor nor first Blackberry did not sell millions in their first months of sales.
I have to agree with you on this one. The US has 2.35 times the population of Japan. So those 200,000 sales would translate out to over 470,000 sales here.
Thats pretty good!
Anyone expecting a runaway hit was off their rocker. I've been saying that it will sell well there, not that it would take over. That's just plain silly.
I have to agree with you on this one. The US has 2.35 times the population of Japan. So those 200,000 sales would translate out to over 470,000 sales here.
Thats pretty good!
Anyone expecting a runaway hit was off their rocker. I've been saying that it will sell well there, not that it would take over. That's just plain silly.
I agree. The WSJ journal article puts it in perspective with Nokia. Nokia holds the largest market share of non-Japanese phones. With a 1% marketshare, 500,000 in sales. 200,000 is really good in comparison.
This is good. This will push Apple to improve the current and future iPhone by adding more features and better components.
Apple should focus more on reliability, robustness, and intensive testing. Same goes for OS X and especially OS X Server.
That is NOT GPS.
A-GPS maybe ?
I think turn-by-turn (assisted) GPS is sooooo basic these days that it should have been fully working on iPhone.
I only wan't to buy a 3G if the gps is fully working and not lagging (seconds) and not depends of any internet connection to get the google-maps ! Then I can throw away the tom-tom-thing away and live my life with only 1 device in my pocket, the iPhone (replacing 3 devices, being: ipod, phone and gps) with the added functionality that applications give me (almost giving my an extra gaming console in my pocket too)... just my idea :-)
I agree. The WSJ journal article puts it in perspective with Nokia. Nokia holds the largest market share of non-Japanese phones. With a 1% marketshare, 500,000 in sales. 200,000 is really good in comparison.
And Nokia is on that market for a decade .... don't forget that too !
RDF much?
How come the iPhone in Japan is barely taking off the ground? The people I talk with think the iPhone is passé at this point. It really is just another cellphone. Get used to it. Most other manufacturers have already caught up or are catching up and surpassing the iPhone.
Don't dismiss the features of the new phones. Apple could certainly learn a thing or two from them.
Apple could learn a few things, but the OP is correct as to the importance of the iPhone's superior interface and ease of use than other smartphones. I've been in this game for ten years, and I certainly agree that the iPhone was a game changer. I've used every "smartphone" OS, and nothing right now comes even close. That is not to say the iPhone is perfect -- far from it. And Apple definitely needs to WAKE UP and start treating their developers better. They need to kill the NDA nonsense and let developers collaborate amongst each other. They also need to better organize the app store to separate great apps from the crapware and lay out an explicit and comprehensive guide for accepting their policies on accepting and rejecting applications to the App store. If they continue to treat developers poorly, many of them will move to other platforms, especially if Android takes off.
As much as I like Google, I love the iPhone and believe mobile OSX is the best platform from a technical and aesthetic standpoint -- Apple just needs to get the heck out of the way and let the developer community do what they do best. I certainly DON'T WANT to see good developers and software companies get discouraged with Apple and have Android leapfrog Apple in popularity and marketshare. We all know exactly what that would look like and the consequences of that. It would be another round of the 1980's-1990's crappy/knock-off but mass market and cheap "Windows PC" vs expensive closed-system Apple Macs.
Apple should focus more on reliability, robustness, and intensive testing. Same goes for OS X and especially OS X Server.
Absolutly. The code they deliver contains more and more bugs that I get more the impression they pull out beta's (look at iPhone OS 2.0 and Leopard's initial release) and try to get it right with a quick update. Looks to my like they can't deliver on time any more. Maybe the actual code-base has swellen to large ? Hopefully they learn the lesson and get a new grip with Snow Leopard. Before they get in the same lane as Microsoft ! We're used to get good software, ad least they got a reputation for that. Bad software gets people complaining about the hardware eventualy... Look what happend with the iPhone 2.0 ! And Apple's still a hardware company, no ?
A-GPS maybe ?
I think turn-by-turn (assisted) GPS is sooooo basic these days that it should have been fully working on iPhone.
I only wan't to buy a 3G if the gps is fully working and not lagging (seconds) and not depends of any internet connection to get the google-maps ! Then I can throw away the tom-tom-thing away and live my life with only 1 device in my pocket, the iPhone (replacing 3 devices, being: ipod, phone and gps) with the added functionality that applications give me (almost giving my an extra gaming console in my pocket too)... just my idea :-)
No... A-GPS or assissted GPS uses cell towers to help the GPS to get a location faster. What you are all asking for is satellite navigation, or SatNav as the marketing people call it.
For those talking about apple adding the APIs for this, they don't need to. A clever programmer can calculate the velocity using a streamof GPS data. That's all the API will do. I think apple must be holding up satnav features on purpose, maybe because of battery or maybe because or data sizes. I don't know, but the functionality is there.
No... A-GPS or assissted GPS uses cell towers to help the GPS to get a location faster. What you are all asking for is satellite navigation, or SatNav as the marketing people call it.
Isn't this kind of a diversion or unnecessary hair splitting from the perspective of this discussion? I ask this because all the GPS units I've seen lately have a turn-by-turn navigation feature anyway, it's assumed to be a feature that's expected of GPS devices now. From a technical perspective, you're right, but from a consumer perspective, it's missing a very basic feature, I don't think anyone sets out to buy a GPS only to get one that doesn't have dynamic turn-by-turn. These days, it's almost like getting raisin bran without the raisins and still calling it raisin bran.
For those talking about apple adding the APIs for this, they don't need to. A clever programmer can calculate the velocity using a streamof GPS data. That's all the API will do. I think apple must be holding up satnav features on purpose, maybe because of battery or maybe because or data sizes. I don't know, but the functionality is there.
The suggestion that it's a battery life issue doesn't work for me. If you're in a car, at least you have a good chance of getting power from the car. Of the other possible issues, I think there may be some negotiations going on with one of the established GPS companies, or the feature is not finished yet. Data size is not a problem. Even a 4GB iPhone should have plenty of room.