But it certainly is not appropriate for English, French, Spanish or any character-based language.
That screen is a good candidate for the least readable display on a mobile device. And it is bizarre that they chose to feature that screen on their website.
That's perhaps why these devices don't seem to do well outside Japan.
C.
You're judging that from this poor screen-capture? I'm surprised they used this on their site too.
To repost a line from my first post:
'Most of the comments from those living outside of Japan are totally useless in a topic like this'
But it certainly is not appropriate for English, French, Spanish or any character-based language.
That screen is a good candidate for the least readable display on a mobile device. And it is bizarre that they chose to feature that screen on their website.
That's perhaps why these devices don't seem to do well outside Japan.
C.
How often to Japanese phones come out as-is outside Japan?
With the possible exceptions of phones hitting Korea and Taiwan, not likely.
Even then, a Japanese maker wouldn't be foolish enough to release a phone in the U.S. with text representation like that.
I've seen a fair number of iPhones in use here in Tokyo. My take on why the iPhone is not more popular is simply this: it's on Softbank. Even with number portability, most people have no desire to switch carriers just to use a particular model of cellphone and Softbank is saddled with a reputation for poor reception from its Vodafone/J-Phone days --regardless of whether it is or not. Many people receive big discounts for being longtime users. Being an AU user -- but someone who doesn't use all those wiz-bang features of Japanese cell phones -- I must admit reluctance to move to a new provider just to use the iPhone.
Some Japanese analysts are saying it could be as small as 160,000 units. WSJ gets most of it right but there are some missing pieces. In addition to the emoji (which are glyphs that use the Unicode free use area), iPhone does not have the one-seg digital TV reception most handsets have now or the digital wallet function. These are not the biggest drawback however, it is the poor reputation and lousy execution of Softbank.
The Softbank store experience compared to Docomo and AU is poor, the iPhone 3G phone plan is complex and Softbank has lowered the initial tier price for packet data but if you use 3G data much at all, the price has not changed. Softbank should have come out the door with lower prices but all they are doing is reacting to Docomo price cuts which does not look good in the eyes of most people here.
Despite all this there is still interest in the device and hope but only if Docomo signs on. I talked with one journalist who said that Docomo has already agreed to sell iPhone but was waiting for the green light from Apple. There is also reports from analysts that if Softbank does not hit their iPhone sales targets, Docomo will be brought online. There are a lot of Docomo users who have said they are interested in iPhone and Apple would easily hit the 1 million mark in Japan if Docomo comes into play. Will be interesting to see how it develops
JB in Tokyo
I was going to say that although I'm no expert in the Japanese cellphone market, it appears that most of the people I speak with don't care nearly as much about 1Seg, Emoji, or the payment system as much as they just don't like SoftBank. Even with the success of the iPhone in the USA, I guarantee it would be *MUCH LARGER* if the iPhone was also available on Verizon Wireless, which has "the other half" of USA cellphone customers. As much as some people despise their business practices (including me), the fact is that they have good service available in huge swaths of areas where AT&T either provides very poor coverage or no service at all, and especially their 3G service.
At least there is an excuse in the USA, given Verizon uses CDMA2000 instead of UMTS, and that Apple signed an exclusive with AT&T. In Japan, there is NO reason for the iPhone NOT to be on DoCoMo et al.
Can someone explain to me why Emoji is such a big deal in Japan? From what I've read here it seems to be an important feature, but from what I gather it's just a glorified emoticon system. I mean can't you just write, "雨" in Kanji instead of having the little rain icon?
Or is it just Apple's poor implementation of this that is really the problem? For example, if they weren't going to do emoji, then why not just make it so the software on the phone ignores the unicodes that show the emoji?
As an aside, do grown adults actually pepper their text messages with these silly icons? I'm assuming if this is the case it's a cultural thing, but I can't quite get my head around a middle aged salaryman sending a message with junk like this:
The number of Japanese people that watch satellite TV and use the debit pay thing on their phones is very small compared to the overall number of customers. The iPhone's lack of this is not an issue, as it provides many other desirable features.
The problem with the iPhone is that it's not very Japanese and not a very good phone.
-Text entry in Japanese is a joke compared to what people are used to (tactile and familiar). Yeah, emoticons would be nice, but they differ between phone carriers (my AU icons don't show up on Docomo or Softbank phones, for example).
-The iphone is crappy phone - harder to use and less familiar to Japanese than what they have. And although it's illegal to drive while talking or texting on the a mobile phone - people do it all the time because the cops don't enforce the rules. Without tactile feed back, it's a little harder to do those things with an iPhone than a normal phone.
-SoftBank is still not regarded as a reliable company by most Japanese consumers. And if they have been long-time users or have family contracts with Docomo or AU, their incentive to switch is very low.
-The Japanese mobile market is much more mature and sophisticated than anywhere else - particularly the US. The iPhone just doesn't cut it as a phone for most people here.
-Japanese pop culture and consumerism is boom and bust. The iPhone had it's boom, and although it might not bust all together yet, it'll only be a banner carried by the Mac Otaku here.
I think the iPhone has saturated the market as best it can for now. It is giving smart phones (like some of the Wilcom phones) a run for their money, because the iPhone is a superior mobile internet device. But it's not a superior phone and texting device for Japanese people. One size just doesn't fit all here.
Let's hope they learn their lesson for the second version.
I am just a bit sick of hearing how amazing these Japanese devices are. If they were good, they would sell internationally.
When we actually see them, they look like the software is written by a bunch of clowns with no understanding of layout, aesthetics or user interface.
C.
I disagree entirely. Your aesthetic is not the Japanese aesthetic. And they make very good use of limited screenspace with their interfaces.
They usually can't sell internationally, because the systems in most places don't support the features, or the airwave use rules have to be overcome. Hell, it's taken the US years to start making a 3G network available. It's been here since I arrived in 2001. What's up with that? Forget payment systems and satellite TV.
Case in point - I bought a water proof Casio phone (with styling like their G-shock watch line) maybe 3 years ago, and still use it, as it serves me well. This phone is just now making its appearance on Verizon in the US, two years after it was discontinued here. Pathetic!
There are some technologies that just haven't caught on here in Japan. Bluetooth is not as available on phones here (or at least wasn't a year ago when I did a survey) as in US or European phones. Most Japanese people I know tell me it isn't something they particularly want in a phone. So not everything is advanced - just many things.
Please leave the ethnocentric bias at home before you post comments like this.
Can someone explain to me why Emoji is such a big deal in Japan? From what I've read here it seems to be an important feature, but from what I gather it's just a glorified emoticon system. I mean can't you just write, "雨" in Kanji instead of having the little rain icon?
Or is it just Apple's poor implementation of this that is really the problem? For example, if they weren't going to do emoji, then why not just make it so the software on the phone ignores the unicodes that show the emoji?
As an aside, do grown adults actually pepper their text messages with these silly icons? I'm assuming if this is the case it's a cultural thing, but I can't quite get my head around a middle aged salaryman sending a message with junk like this:
Emoji is a big deal to some people, but not all. My wife sends me one or two per every 6 messages, for example. But her friends use lots of them. Just like Kanji can represent a word, sometimes they represent a feeling. Emoji is more feeling, allows you write less.
The problem with Emoji here, is that you can't use them between different phone systems. My AU emoji don't work with Docomo's and vice-versa, for example. So, their use is hampered by this limitation (you have to have same phone provider and know that your friend has it).
"'ve seen a fair number of iPhones in use here in Tokyo. My take on why the iPhone is not more popular is simply this: it's on Softbank. Even with number portability, most people have no desire to switch carriers just to use a particular model of cellphone and Softbank is saddled with a reputation for poor reception from its Vodafone/J-Phone days --regardless of whether it is or not. Many people receive big discounts for being longtime users. Being an AU user -- but someone who doesn't use all those wiz-bang features of Japanese cell phones -- I must admit reluctance to move to a new provider just to use the iPhone."
\t
Totally agree on these points point. Since my wife and I both have AU, we get cheaper service and some things are free - like text messages between us. For both of us to switch, just because I want an iPhone (she wants nothing to do with one) would be expensive.
I had a phone get destroyed once from being in my pocket while I walked somewhere through the rain. I'd guess that water damage due to rain, dropping it in a puddle, etc. is probably one of the most common causes of dead cellphones. Why do you suppose all the phone manufacturers put those "red dot" water damage indicators on the phone?
Getting your phone ruined due to water damage sucks - then you have to either buy a phone at a very expensive unsubsidized price, or you have to go without a phone for up to 2 years while still paying for the service.
If they made waterproof phones stateside, I know I'd consider one.
I need one here in Japan. I'm a diver, in the field for research, and have had one ruined by rain. You CAN get a CASIO waterproof from Verizon - just saw an ad for it somewhere. This is the same tough phone I bought 3 years ago and still use today.
I hate to say this, but Japan is an increasingly unattractive, even uninteresting, market for Apple (as it will arguably become for most non-Japanese electronics manufacturers; look at what the article says about Nokia's share in Japan). Mac's shares are declining too.
It has become a chicken-and-egg issue: The potential size of the Japanese market for non-Japanese electronics manufacturers simply does not justify the $$ that would need to be spent given the extent of customization that would be required.
You are partially correct. Apple was doing very poorly here because it's notebooks were TOO BIG (5lbs!). With the release of the MacBook Air, the weight issue isn't a factor, but the form factor is. The last I checked, their sales had improved. I've seen more mac laptops in use in labs and on the trains - not And in the last year, all the electronics dealers are devoting more space to Macs.
One big issue is the prices are a bit higher here than in the US, even when currency exchange rates are decent. So, they may regard Macs as being overpriced. Another thing is that not everyone like the Japanese input system used by the Mac OS. My wife hates it, prefers what's there on Windoze. I've heard the same thing from many of my colleagues and friends.
So let me get this, Nokia who sell the most phones in the world can't even get a 1 percent share in Japan and people want to complain about Apple and their iphone, oh the irony.
They usually can't sell internationally, because the systems in most places don't support the features, or the airwave use rules have to be overcome. Hell, it's taken the US years to start making a 3G network available. It's been here since I arrived in 2001. What's up with that? Forget payment systems and satellite TV.
Most people don't realize that the reason it took that long for GSM and 3G to reach US is because the US is huge (26 times larger than Japan) and for one carrier to cover the whole country they need a lot more money. Sure it will pay off but it is not easy to get the money immediately to make the new network available to everyone. I think that AT&T and T-Mobile done great job in implementing GSM network here in the States. However, they still have a lot of work to do.
Good luck destroying that myth as obviously you are still an outsider. There are many avenues Japan is pursuing with their Asian counterparts that go unannounced...that's how the Japanese do it.
so what is this secret technology of which you speak? i've been in tokyo 5 years and whilst i was initially impressed by full-colour screen phones when i arrived here i have since been envious of the nokias friends back in the uk have. at least it seems like someone made an effort to design an interface for them. and i doubt they have to listen to beeps for almost a minute whilst my keitai tries to connect to the overloaded networks and can't even get a signal at all if i'm anywhere out of the way
but i guess if i wasn't an outsider i wouldn't have these problems, eh?
-The iphone is crappy phone - harder to use and less familiar to Japanese than what they have. And although it's illegal to drive while talking or texting on the a mobile phone - people do it all the time because the cops don't enforce the rules. Without tactile feed back, it's a little harder to do those things with an iPhone than a normal phone.
.
The iPhone is crap because its not tactile, unfamiliar to Japanese, and won't allow them to text while driving.
Comments
But it certainly is not appropriate for English, French, Spanish or any character-based language.
That screen is a good candidate for the least readable display on a mobile device. And it is bizarre that they chose to feature that screen on their website.
That's perhaps why these devices don't seem to do well outside Japan.
C.
You're judging that from this poor screen-capture? I'm surprised they used this on their site too.
To repost a line from my first post:
'Most of the comments from those living outside of Japan are totally useless in a topic like this'
But it certainly is not appropriate for English, French, Spanish or any character-based language.
That screen is a good candidate for the least readable display on a mobile device. And it is bizarre that they chose to feature that screen on their website.
That's perhaps why these devices don't seem to do well outside Japan.
C.
How often to Japanese phones come out as-is outside Japan?
With the possible exceptions of phones hitting Korea and Taiwan, not likely.
Even then, a Japanese maker wouldn't be foolish enough to release a phone in the U.S. with text representation like that.
Some Japanese analysts are saying it could be as small as 160,000 units. WSJ gets most of it right but there are some missing pieces. In addition to the emoji (which are glyphs that use the Unicode free use area), iPhone does not have the one-seg digital TV reception most handsets have now or the digital wallet function. These are not the biggest drawback however, it is the poor reputation and lousy execution of Softbank.
The Softbank store experience compared to Docomo and AU is poor, the iPhone 3G phone plan is complex and Softbank has lowered the initial tier price for packet data but if you use 3G data much at all, the price has not changed. Softbank should have come out the door with lower prices but all they are doing is reacting to Docomo price cuts which does not look good in the eyes of most people here.
Despite all this there is still interest in the device and hope but only if Docomo signs on. I talked with one journalist who said that Docomo has already agreed to sell iPhone but was waiting for the green light from Apple. There is also reports from analysts that if Softbank does not hit their iPhone sales targets, Docomo will be brought online. There are a lot of Docomo users who have said they are interested in iPhone and Apple would easily hit the 1 million mark in Japan if Docomo comes into play. Will be interesting to see how it develops
JB in Tokyo
I was going to say that although I'm no expert in the Japanese cellphone market, it appears that most of the people I speak with don't care nearly as much about 1Seg, Emoji, or the payment system as much as they just don't like SoftBank. Even with the success of the iPhone in the USA, I guarantee it would be *MUCH LARGER* if the iPhone was also available on Verizon Wireless, which has "the other half" of USA cellphone customers. As much as some people despise their business practices (including me), the fact is that they have good service available in huge swaths of areas where AT&T either provides very poor coverage or no service at all, and especially their 3G service.
At least there is an excuse in the USA, given Verizon uses CDMA2000 instead of UMTS, and that Apple signed an exclusive with AT&T. In Japan, there is NO reason for the iPhone NOT to be on DoCoMo et al.
You're judging that from this poor screen-capture? I'm surprised they used this on their site too.
To repost a line from my first post:
'Most of the comments from those living outside of Japan are totally useless in a topic like this'
I am just a bit sick of hearing how amazing these Japanese devices are. If they were good, they would sell internationally.
When we actually see them, they look like the software is written by a bunch of clowns with no understanding of layout, aesthetics or user interface.
C.
As for the mobile phones, are they still using TRON?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_Project
Or is it just Apple's poor implementation of this that is really the problem? For example, if they weren't going to do emoji, then why not just make it so the software on the phone ignores the unicodes that show the emoji?
As an aside, do grown adults actually pepper their text messages with these silly icons? I'm assuming if this is the case it's a cultural thing, but I can't quite get my head around a middle aged salaryman sending a message with junk like this:
The number of Japanese people that watch satellite TV and use the debit pay thing on their phones is very small compared to the overall number of customers. The iPhone's lack of this is not an issue, as it provides many other desirable features.
The problem with the iPhone is that it's not very Japanese and not a very good phone.
-Text entry in Japanese is a joke compared to what people are used to (tactile and familiar). Yeah, emoticons would be nice, but they differ between phone carriers (my AU icons don't show up on Docomo or Softbank phones, for example).
-The iphone is crappy phone - harder to use and less familiar to Japanese than what they have. And although it's illegal to drive while talking or texting on the a mobile phone - people do it all the time because the cops don't enforce the rules. Without tactile feed back, it's a little harder to do those things with an iPhone than a normal phone.
-SoftBank is still not regarded as a reliable company by most Japanese consumers. And if they have been long-time users or have family contracts with Docomo or AU, their incentive to switch is very low.
-The Japanese mobile market is much more mature and sophisticated than anywhere else - particularly the US. The iPhone just doesn't cut it as a phone for most people here.
-Japanese pop culture and consumerism is boom and bust. The iPhone had it's boom, and although it might not bust all together yet, it'll only be a banner carried by the Mac Otaku here.
I think the iPhone has saturated the market as best it can for now. It is giving smart phones (like some of the Wilcom phones) a run for their money, because the iPhone is a superior mobile internet device. But it's not a superior phone and texting device for Japanese people. One size just doesn't fit all here.
Let's hope they learn their lesson for the second version.
I am just a bit sick of hearing how amazing these Japanese devices are. If they were good, they would sell internationally.
When we actually see them, they look like the software is written by a bunch of clowns with no understanding of layout, aesthetics or user interface.
C.
I disagree entirely. Your aesthetic is not the Japanese aesthetic. And they make very good use of limited screenspace with their interfaces.
They usually can't sell internationally, because the systems in most places don't support the features, or the airwave use rules have to be overcome. Hell, it's taken the US years to start making a 3G network available. It's been here since I arrived in 2001. What's up with that? Forget payment systems and satellite TV.
Case in point - I bought a water proof Casio phone (with styling like their G-shock watch line) maybe 3 years ago, and still use it, as it serves me well. This phone is just now making its appearance on Verizon in the US, two years after it was discontinued here. Pathetic!
There are some technologies that just haven't caught on here in Japan. Bluetooth is not as available on phones here (or at least wasn't a year ago when I did a survey) as in US or European phones. Most Japanese people I know tell me it isn't something they particularly want in a phone. So not everything is advanced - just many things.
Please leave the ethnocentric bias at home before you post comments like this.
Can someone explain to me why Emoji is such a big deal in Japan? From what I've read here it seems to be an important feature, but from what I gather it's just a glorified emoticon system. I mean can't you just write, "雨" in Kanji instead of having the little rain icon?
Or is it just Apple's poor implementation of this that is really the problem? For example, if they weren't going to do emoji, then why not just make it so the software on the phone ignores the unicodes that show the emoji?
As an aside, do grown adults actually pepper their text messages with these silly icons? I'm assuming if this is the case it's a cultural thing, but I can't quite get my head around a middle aged salaryman sending a message with junk like this:
Emoji is a big deal to some people, but not all. My wife sends me one or two per every 6 messages, for example. But her friends use lots of them. Just like Kanji can represent a word, sometimes they represent a feeling. Emoji is more feeling, allows you write less.
The problem with Emoji here, is that you can't use them between different phone systems. My AU emoji don't work with Docomo's and vice-versa, for example. So, their use is hampered by this limitation (you have to have same phone provider and know that your friend has it).
\t
Totally agree on these points point. Since my wife and I both have AU, we get cheaper service and some things are free - like text messages between us. For both of us to switch, just because I want an iPhone (she wants nothing to do with one) would be expensive.
<raises hand>
I had a phone get destroyed once from being in my pocket while I walked somewhere through the rain. I'd guess that water damage due to rain, dropping it in a puddle, etc. is probably one of the most common causes of dead cellphones. Why do you suppose all the phone manufacturers put those "red dot" water damage indicators on the phone?
Getting your phone ruined due to water damage sucks - then you have to either buy a phone at a very expensive unsubsidized price, or you have to go without a phone for up to 2 years while still paying for the service.
If they made waterproof phones stateside, I know I'd consider one.
I need one here in Japan. I'm a diver, in the field for research, and have had one ruined by rain. You CAN get a CASIO waterproof from Verizon - just saw an ad for it somewhere. This is the same tough phone I bought 3 years ago and still use today.
The vast majority of Japanese consumers probably don't even know that the iPhone is available here.
They need to run ads, better yet, viral ones to post on Nico-nico-doga(the Japanese and more high-tech version of You-tube).
BS - they know it's here if they have a TV or use the train. Everyone I know has heard of it, and I know people from a broad spectrum.
It's just not on everybody's radar, and to be frank this is not a very good phone. A great internet device, but not a good phone here.
I hate to say this, but Japan is an increasingly unattractive, even uninteresting, market for Apple (as it will arguably become for most non-Japanese electronics manufacturers; look at what the article says about Nokia's share in Japan). Mac's shares are declining too.
It has become a chicken-and-egg issue: The potential size of the Japanese market for non-Japanese electronics manufacturers simply does not justify the $$ that would need to be spent given the extent of customization that would be required.
You are partially correct. Apple was doing very poorly here because it's notebooks were TOO BIG (5lbs!). With the release of the MacBook Air, the weight issue isn't a factor, but the form factor is. The last I checked, their sales had improved. I've seen more mac laptops in use in labs and on the trains - not And in the last year, all the electronics dealers are devoting more space to Macs.
One big issue is the prices are a bit higher here than in the US, even when currency exchange rates are decent. So, they may regard Macs as being overpriced. Another thing is that not everyone like the Japanese input system used by the Mac OS. My wife hates it, prefers what's there on Windoze. I've heard the same thing from many of my colleagues and friends.
They usually can't sell internationally, because the systems in most places don't support the features, or the airwave use rules have to be overcome. Hell, it's taken the US years to start making a 3G network available. It's been here since I arrived in 2001. What's up with that? Forget payment systems and satellite TV.
Most people don't realize that the reason it took that long for GSM and 3G to reach US is because the US is huge (26 times larger than Japan) and for one carrier to cover the whole country they need a lot more money. Sure it will pay off but it is not easy to get the money immediately to make the new network available to everyone. I think that AT&T and T-Mobile done great job in implementing GSM network here in the States. However, they still have a lot of work to do.
Good luck destroying that myth as obviously you are still an outsider. There are many avenues Japan is pursuing with their Asian counterparts that go unannounced...that's how the Japanese do it.
so what is this secret technology of which you speak? i've been in tokyo 5 years and whilst i was initially impressed by full-colour screen phones when i arrived here i have since been envious of the nokias friends back in the uk have. at least it seems like someone made an effort to design an interface for them. and i doubt they have to listen to beeps for almost a minute whilst my keitai tries to connect to the overloaded networks and can't even get a signal at all if i'm anywhere out of the way
but i guess if i wasn't an outsider i wouldn't have these problems, eh?
-The iphone is crappy phone - harder to use and less familiar to Japanese than what they have. And although it's illegal to drive while talking or texting on the a mobile phone - people do it all the time because the cops don't enforce the rules. Without tactile feed back, it's a little harder to do those things with an iPhone than a normal phone.
.
The iPhone is crap because its not tactile, unfamiliar to Japanese, and won't allow them to text while driving.
The iPhone is crap because its not tactile, unfamiliar to Japanese, and won't allow them to text while driving.
LOL
Yeah, I know. Have you noticed that most people who talk negative about the iPhone actually never used an iPhone