Please advance the discussion by providing a credible link, cite, whatever: I am certainly wiling to be corrected on this (or any other point). Otherwise, move along.
News flash, I do not care if you believe me. I really don't. I will take the word of several friends that work for Sonera over your "virtual" word any day. Your willingness to be corrected or not has no bearing on me one way or another. See it works like this. People need money to buy things, i.e. food. toilet paper, G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu Grip. They keep their jobs but giving me tidbits of information but without posting a link to the actual contract or giving any major details that can be linked back to them, thus cutting of their source of income. Did I explain it well enough for you? Trying to help you out as best I can. Otherwise..... you fill in the blank.
News flash, I do not care if you believe me. I really don't. I will take the word of several friends that work for Sonera over your "virtual" word any day. Your willingness to be corrected or not has no bearing on me one way or another. Otherwise..... you fill in the blank.
Obviously, you can't provide a link or a cite. It's just a bald assertion.
News flash, I do not care if you believe me. I really don't. I will take the word of several friends that work for Sonera over your "virtual" word any day. Your willingness to be corrected or not has no bearing on me one way or another. See it works like this. People need money to buy things, i.e. food. toilet paper, G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu Grip. They keep their jobs but giving me tidbits of information but without posting a link to the actual contract or giving any major details that can be linked back to them, thus cutting of their source of income. Did I explain it well enough for you? Trying to help you out as best I can. Otherwise..... you fill in the blank.
Then you should not be complaining when others question the credibility of your statements.
News flash, I do not care if you believe me. I really don't. I will take the word of several friends that work for Sonera over your "virtual" word any day. Your willingness to be corrected or not has no bearing on me one way or another. See it works like this. People need money to buy things, i.e. food. toilet paper, G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu Grip. They keep their jobs but giving me tidbits of information but without posting a link to the actual contract or giving any major details that can be linked back to them, thus cutting of their source of income. Did I explain it well enough for you? Trying to help you out as best I can. Otherwise..... you fill in the blank.
You said your friend at Sonera said a lot of things --- and everything turned out to be wrong.
Obviously, you can't provide a link or a cite. It's just a bald assertion.
I never said it was anything other than hearsay from some friends that work there. To date, I never had any reason to doubt their words. If they say that Apple put Sonera in a bind, then for me, Apple put Sonera in a bind. It can not be simpler than this.
Then you should not be complaining when others question the credibility of your statements.
People can question all they want, or believe all they want. As I will state again, and possibly again, the info I posted came from people who are friends that work for Sonera. Considering I trust them infinitely more than anyone on this site, for me their words are golden.
Glad you brought this up. Look at the date of that post. It was before Sonera (of Sweden, not Finland) made any public commitments regarding the pricing plans. Sonera (of Sweden again) looked around and saw that others were charging much more and they did the same, with Sonera (Finland this time having to follow what Sweden tells them to do). My friends work for Sonera here in Finland and not Sweden so info they have here is subject to change according to info released in Sweden.
Glad you brought this up. Look at the date of that post. It was before Sonera (of Sweden, not Finland) made any public commitments regarding the pricing plans. Sonera (of Sweden again) looked around and saw that others were charging much more and they did the same, with Sonera (Finland this time having to follow what Sweden tells them to do). My friends work for Sonera here in Finland and not Sweden so info they have here is subject to change according to info released in Sweden.
Clear enough for you?
So it has nothing to do with Apple then --- because Sonera HAD already signed the deal with Apple.
So it has nothing to do with Apple then --- because Sonera HAD already signed the deal with Apple.
Clear enough for you?
With you it is seldom clear but we can go round again if you want.
I will try to go slow.
Here goes.
My friends that work for Sonera Finland (FACT), said that Apple US had negotiated terms that Sonera had to offer the 3G iPhone locked and with a subscription (hearsay, conjecture, rumor based on friends that work for Sonera Finland).
Considering no one here has posted a copy of the contract between Apple and anyone else, my friends (guesses, conjecture, rumors) info is no less valid until anyone else here can post something otherwise.
Should be all clear by now. What do you think? Is there end game to this by the way? Until you, me, Steve Jobs, et al, posts a contract on the web we will be left with speculation.
With you it is seldom clear but we can go round again if you want.
I will try to go slow.
Here goes.
My friends that work for Sonera Finland (FACT), said that Apple US had negotiated terms that Sonera had to offer the 3G iPhone locked and with a subscription (hearsay, conjecture, rumor based on friends that work for Sonera Finland).
Considering no one here has posted a copy of the contract between Apple and anyone else, my friends (guesses, conjecture, rumors) info is no less valid until anyone else here can post something otherwise.
Should be all clear by now. What do you think?
It is the carriers' choice to whether sell the iphone simlock or not --- many carriers chose to sell unlocked iphones.
If Italian carriers can sell an unlocked iphone for 500-600 euro (prepay and unlock) and Sonera sells a simlocked iphone for the same price at 500-600 euro (2 year contract and simlock) and Hong Kong gets a unlocked iphone with full 2 years service for under $1000 US --- then for you to be correct, Sonera must be the dumbest negotiator on earth.
If Italian carriers can sell an unlocked iphone for 500-600 euro (prepay and unlock) and Sonera sells a simlocked iphone for the same price at 500-600 euro (2 year contract and simlock) and Hong Kong gets a unlocked iphone with full 2 years service for under $1000 US --- then for you to be correct, Sonera must be the dumbest negotiator on earth.
We are not talking about intelligence here. At least I'm not. Do you think having locked contracts makes alot a of sense.
With you it is seldom clear but we can go round again if you want.
I will try to go slow.
Here goes.
My friends that work for Sonera Finland (FACT), said that Apple US had negotiated terms that Sonera had to offer the 3G iPhone locked and with a subscription (hearsay, conjecture, rumor based on friends that work for Sonera Finland).
Considering no one here has posted a copy of the contract between Apple and anyone else, my friends (guesses, conjecture, rumors) info is no less valid until anyone else here can post something otherwise.
Should be all clear by now. What do you think? Is there end game to this by the way? Until you, me, Steve Jobs, et al, posts a contract on the web we will be left with speculation.
I know that you dislike advice, but here it is anyway: stop digging!
We are not talking about intelligence here. At least I'm not. Do you think having locked contracts makes alot a of sense.
I am not talking about intelligence per se.
I am talking about reasonableness --- do you think that Sonera is stupid enough to sign a contract that is a thousand times worse than the approx. 40 carriers who are selling unlocked iphones.
What I am talking about is that your so-called Sonera-Apple negotiated deal --- looks like native Indians selling Manhattan to the Dutch for a few goats.
I think you work for the State Department for too long --- somehow you convince yourself that Saddam really has WMD in Iraq. Your friend at Sonera was a thousand times wrong in the past already, yet somehow you continue to convince yourself that you are continued to be right.
I am talking about reasonableness --- do you think that Sonera is stupid enough to sign a contract that is a thousand times worse than the approx. 40 carriers who are selling unlocked iphones.
Yes, and no. They are not the first and will not be the last operator do something stupid. Maybe they actually thought they could get away with it. Who knows. It was the same here with branding. Some operators thought that branding phones and special phone OS's would word. It hasn't. People opted to pay full price over a subsidized phone. Here, the idea of total ownership is king.
Quote:
What I am talking about is that your so-called Sonera-Apple negotiated deal --- looks like native Indians selling Manhattan to the Dutch for a few goats.
Not my deal. I am just saying what my friends told me. If you have first hand knowledge about any of the negotiated contracts then by all means share. Otherwise you can not say what is and is not true.
Quote:
I think you work for the State Department for too long --- somehow you convince yourself that Saddam really has WMD in Iraq. Your friend at Sonera was a thousand times wrong in the past already, yet somehow you continue to convince yourself that you are continued to be right.
Very few in State actually believed it. We saw the data. It was all for show and a bunch of people bought it. Probably the same ones that drink the kool aid Apple peddles. By the way, Saddam was not captured in a spider hole. I do not convince myself that I am right, but you can not convince me that Sonera or my friends are wrong. Put up a copy of the contract and then we will both see.....
Yes, and no. They are not the first and will not be the last operator do something stupid. Maybe they actually thought they could get away with it. Who knows.
I do not convince myself that I am right, but you can not convince me that Sonera or my friends are wrong. Put up a copy of the contract and then we will both see.....
It's not "just" doing something stupid --- it's doing something that is a thousand times more stupid than everybody else. And if Sonera is really that stupid, then Apple would have negotiated a iron-clad deal that leaves no renegotiation possible for Sonera.
Your friend was wrong a thousand times before. What's the old say --- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice,... Your friend fooled you a thousand times already.
Your friend was wrong a thousand times before. What's the old say --- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice,... Your friend fooled you a thousand times already.
We have now entered the "whatever" phase of the discussion. Considering you can't prove them wrong, I can say the same with you. Sooooo either prove them wrong or you are equally "fooled".
We have now entered the "whatever" phase of the discussion. Considering you can't prove them wrong, I can say the same with you. Sooooo either prove them wrong or you are equally "fooled".
The only thing you "corrected" me was a couple of fast typing mistakes (like I said you are in Sweden instead of Finland).
Most people on this forum don't like a lot of what I say --- but they do respect my opinion.
For me it is not about liking or disliking what you or anyone else says. Very little in this forum can be proven. I take what is said with a grain of salt. My friends at Sonera that happen to mention issues about the iPhone that I posted here have equally as much credibility as any rumor, speculation, etc... than anyone else. The fact that you base the credibility of one isolated issue determine how you view friends further illustrates that you are a very lonely person with only your iPhone and computer to keep you company. I find it completely said that you can readily jump to a post that someone makes or has made weeks to months ago. There is this thing called "a life". I could be wrong but you might want to get one. Just a thought. You never know.
Once again, is there an end game with this? Are we done yet?
For me it is not about liking or disliking what you or anyone else says. Very little in this forum can be proven. I take what is said with a grain of salt. My friends at Sonera that happen to mention issues about the iPhone that I posted here have equally as much credibility as any rumor, speculation, etc... than anyone else. The fact that you base the credibility of one isolated issue determine how you view friends further illustrates that you are a very lonely person with only your iPhone and computer to keep you company. I find it completely said that you can readily jump to a post that someone makes or has made weeks to months ago. There is this thing called "a life". I could be wrong but you might want to get one. Just a thought.
Once again, is there an end game with this? Are we done yet?
If you take your friend's words with a grain of salt --- then either don't post them in the first place or don't make heroic efforts to defend them (once you were proven wrong).
I have a life --- that's why I don't START threads, posts and rumors.
Comments
That's just your claim at the moment.
Please advance the discussion by providing a credible link, cite, whatever: I am certainly wiling to be corrected on this (or any other point). Otherwise, move along.
News flash, I do not care if you believe me. I really don't. I will take the word of several friends that work for Sonera over your "virtual" word any day. Your willingness to be corrected or not has no bearing on me one way or another. See it works like this. People need money to buy things, i.e. food. toilet paper, G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu Grip. They keep their jobs but giving me tidbits of information but without posting a link to the actual contract or giving any major details that can be linked back to them, thus cutting of their source of income. Did I explain it well enough for you? Trying to help you out as best I can. Otherwise..... you fill in the blank.
News flash, I do not care if you believe me. I really don't. I will take the word of several friends that work for Sonera over your "virtual" word any day. Your willingness to be corrected or not has no bearing on me one way or another. Otherwise..... you fill in the blank.
Obviously, you can't provide a link or a cite. It's just a bald assertion.
News flash, I do not care if you believe me. I really don't. I will take the word of several friends that work for Sonera over your "virtual" word any day. Your willingness to be corrected or not has no bearing on me one way or another. See it works like this. People need money to buy things, i.e. food. toilet paper, G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu Grip. They keep their jobs but giving me tidbits of information but without posting a link to the actual contract or giving any major details that can be linked back to them, thus cutting of their source of income. Did I explain it well enough for you? Trying to help you out as best I can. Otherwise..... you fill in the blank.
Then you should not be complaining when others question the credibility of your statements.
News flash, I do not care if you believe me. I really don't. I will take the word of several friends that work for Sonera over your "virtual" word any day. Your willingness to be corrected or not has no bearing on me one way or another. See it works like this. People need money to buy things, i.e. food. toilet paper, G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu Grip. They keep their jobs but giving me tidbits of information but without posting a link to the actual contract or giving any major details that can be linked back to them, thus cutting of their source of income. Did I explain it well enough for you? Trying to help you out as best I can. Otherwise..... you fill in the blank.
You said your friend at Sonera said a lot of things --- and everything turned out to be wrong.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=88272
Obviously, you can't provide a link or a cite. It's just a bald assertion.
I never said it was anything other than hearsay from some friends that work there. To date, I never had any reason to doubt their words. If they say that Apple put Sonera in a bind, then for me, Apple put Sonera in a bind. It can not be simpler than this.
Then you should not be complaining when others question the credibility of your statements.
People can question all they want, or believe all they want. As I will state again, and possibly again, the info I posted came from people who are friends that work for Sonera. Considering I trust them infinitely more than anyone on this site, for me their words are golden.
You said your friend at Sonera said a lot of things --- and everything turned out to be wrong.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=88272
Glad you brought this up. Look at the date of that post. It was before Sonera (of Sweden, not Finland) made any public commitments regarding the pricing plans. Sonera (of Sweden again) looked around and saw that others were charging much more and they did the same, with Sonera (Finland this time having to follow what Sweden tells them to do). My friends work for Sonera here in Finland and not Sweden so info they have here is subject to change according to info released in Sweden.
Clear enough for you?
Glad you brought this up. Look at the date of that post. It was before Sonera (of Sweden, not Finland) made any public commitments regarding the pricing plans. Sonera (of Sweden again) looked around and saw that others were charging much more and they did the same, with Sonera (Finland this time having to follow what Sweden tells them to do). My friends work for Sonera here in Finland and not Sweden so info they have here is subject to change according to info released in Sweden.
Clear enough for you?
So it has nothing to do with Apple then --- because Sonera HAD already signed the deal with Apple.
Clear enough for you?
So it has nothing to do with Apple then --- because Sonera HAD already signed the deal with Apple.
Clear enough for you?
With you it is seldom clear but we can go round again if you want.
I will try to go slow.
Here goes.
My friends that work for Sonera Finland (FACT), said that Apple US had negotiated terms that Sonera had to offer the 3G iPhone locked and with a subscription (hearsay, conjecture, rumor based on friends that work for Sonera Finland).
Considering no one here has posted a copy of the contract between Apple and anyone else, my friends (guesses, conjecture, rumors) info is no less valid until anyone else here can post something otherwise.
Should be all clear by now. What do you think? Is there end game to this by the way? Until you, me, Steve Jobs, et al, posts a contract on the web we will be left with speculation.
With you it is seldom clear but we can go round again if you want.
I will try to go slow.
Here goes.
My friends that work for Sonera Finland (FACT), said that Apple US had negotiated terms that Sonera had to offer the 3G iPhone locked and with a subscription (hearsay, conjecture, rumor based on friends that work for Sonera Finland).
Considering no one here has posted a copy of the contract between Apple and anyone else, my friends (guesses, conjecture, rumors) info is no less valid until anyone else here can post something otherwise.
Should be all clear by now. What do you think?
It is the carriers' choice to whether sell the iphone simlock or not --- many carriers chose to sell unlocked iphones.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1937
If Italian carriers can sell an unlocked iphone for 500-600 euro (prepay and unlock) and Sonera sells a simlocked iphone for the same price at 500-600 euro (2 year contract and simlock) and Hong Kong gets a unlocked iphone with full 2 years service for under $1000 US --- then for you to be correct, Sonera must be the dumbest negotiator on earth.
It is the carriers' choice to whether sell the iphone simlock or not --- many carriers chose to sell unlocked iphones.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1937
If Italian carriers can sell an unlocked iphone for 500-600 euro (prepay and unlock) and Sonera sells a simlocked iphone for the same price at 500-600 euro (2 year contract and simlock) and Hong Kong gets a unlocked iphone with full 2 years service for under $1000 US --- then for you to be correct, Sonera must be the dumbest negotiator on earth.
We are not talking about intelligence here. At least I'm not. Do you think having locked contracts makes alot a of sense.
With you it is seldom clear but we can go round again if you want.
I will try to go slow.
Here goes.
My friends that work for Sonera Finland (FACT), said that Apple US had negotiated terms that Sonera had to offer the 3G iPhone locked and with a subscription (hearsay, conjecture, rumor based on friends that work for Sonera Finland).
Considering no one here has posted a copy of the contract between Apple and anyone else, my friends (guesses, conjecture, rumors) info is no less valid until anyone else here can post something otherwise.
Should be all clear by now. What do you think? Is there end game to this by the way? Until you, me, Steve Jobs, et al, posts a contract on the web we will be left with speculation.
I know that you dislike advice, but here it is anyway: stop digging!
I know that you dislike advice, but here it is anyway: stop digging!
Maybe it's your advice......
Anyway, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
We are not talking about intelligence here. At least I'm not. Do you think having locked contracts makes alot a of sense.
I am not talking about intelligence per se.
I am talking about reasonableness --- do you think that Sonera is stupid enough to sign a contract that is a thousand times worse than the approx. 40 carriers who are selling unlocked iphones.
What I am talking about is that your so-called Sonera-Apple negotiated deal --- looks like native Indians selling Manhattan to the Dutch for a few goats.
I think you work for the State Department for too long --- somehow you convince yourself that Saddam really has WMD in Iraq. Your friend at Sonera was a thousand times wrong in the past already, yet somehow you continue to convince yourself that you are continued to be right.
I am not talking about intelligence per se.
I am talking about reasonableness --- do you think that Sonera is stupid enough to sign a contract that is a thousand times worse than the approx. 40 carriers who are selling unlocked iphones.
Yes, and no. They are not the first and will not be the last operator do something stupid. Maybe they actually thought they could get away with it. Who knows. It was the same here with branding. Some operators thought that branding phones and special phone OS's would word. It hasn't. People opted to pay full price over a subsidized phone. Here, the idea of total ownership is king.
What I am talking about is that your so-called Sonera-Apple negotiated deal --- looks like native Indians selling Manhattan to the Dutch for a few goats.
Not my deal. I am just saying what my friends told me. If you have first hand knowledge about any of the negotiated contracts then by all means share. Otherwise you can not say what is and is not true.
I think you work for the State Department for too long --- somehow you convince yourself that Saddam really has WMD in Iraq. Your friend at Sonera was a thousand times wrong in the past already, yet somehow you continue to convince yourself that you are continued to be right.
Very few in State actually believed it. We saw the data. It was all for show and a bunch of people bought it. Probably the same ones that drink the kool aid Apple peddles. By the way, Saddam was not captured in a spider hole. I do not convince myself that I am right, but you can not convince me that Sonera or my friends are wrong. Put up a copy of the contract and then we will both see.....
Yes, and no. They are not the first and will not be the last operator do something stupid. Maybe they actually thought they could get away with it. Who knows.
I do not convince myself that I am right, but you can not convince me that Sonera or my friends are wrong. Put up a copy of the contract and then we will both see.....
It's not "just" doing something stupid --- it's doing something that is a thousand times more stupid than everybody else. And if Sonera is really that stupid, then Apple would have negotiated a iron-clad deal that leaves no renegotiation possible for Sonera.
Your friend was wrong a thousand times before. What's the old say --- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice,... Your friend fooled you a thousand times already.
Your friend was wrong a thousand times before. What's the old say --- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice,... Your friend fooled you a thousand times already.
We have now entered the "whatever" phase of the discussion. Considering you can't prove them wrong, I can say the same with you. Sooooo either prove them wrong or you are equally "fooled".
Oh and you live in a completely myopic existence.
We have now entered the "whatever" phase of the discussion. Considering you can't prove them wrong, I can say the same with you. Sooooo either prove them wrong or you are equally "fooled".
Oh and you live in a completely myopic existence.
Myopic existence?
I was completely correct 3 months ago.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...2&postcount=48
The only thing you "corrected" me was a couple of fast typing mistakes (like I said you are in Sweden instead of Finland).
Most people on this forum don't like a lot of what I say --- but they do respect my opinion.
Myopic existence?
I was completely correct 3 months ago.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...2&postcount=48
The only thing you "corrected" me was a couple of fast typing mistakes (like I said you are in Sweden instead of Finland).
Most people on this forum don't like a lot of what I say --- but they do respect my opinion.
For me it is not about liking or disliking what you or anyone else says. Very little in this forum can be proven. I take what is said with a grain of salt. My friends at Sonera that happen to mention issues about the iPhone that I posted here have equally as much credibility as any rumor, speculation, etc... than anyone else. The fact that you base the credibility of one isolated issue determine how you view friends further illustrates that you are a very lonely person with only your iPhone and computer to keep you company. I find it completely said that you can readily jump to a post that someone makes or has made weeks to months ago. There is this thing called "a life". I could be wrong but you might want to get one. Just a thought. You never know.
Once again, is there an end game with this? Are we done yet?
For me it is not about liking or disliking what you or anyone else says. Very little in this forum can be proven. I take what is said with a grain of salt. My friends at Sonera that happen to mention issues about the iPhone that I posted here have equally as much credibility as any rumor, speculation, etc... than anyone else. The fact that you base the credibility of one isolated issue determine how you view friends further illustrates that you are a very lonely person with only your iPhone and computer to keep you company. I find it completely said that you can readily jump to a post that someone makes or has made weeks to months ago. There is this thing called "a life". I could be wrong but you might want to get one. Just a thought.
Once again, is there an end game with this? Are we done yet?
If you take your friend's words with a grain of salt --- then either don't post them in the first place or don't make heroic efforts to defend them (once you were proven wrong).
I have a life --- that's why I don't START threads, posts and rumors.