No Reagan did start the mess. Reaganomics turned out to be a huge failure.
What Clinton did in the 90's was good for everybody and, most importantly, possible with the then healthy economy. Bush turned a great economy into a mess in just a few years, and instead of making good adjustments he worsened them... well for 99% of us, not for the 1% that became hugely rich because of it.
And that bit about the US giving huge amounts of money to the rest of the world and never getting anything back... The US never helped without gaining profit of it themselves, and there is nothing wrong with that, this includes the rebuilding of Europe after WWII, a huge investment from the US, but they earned it back a 100000 times too.
Wait - did you actually read the link or just comment on it? Clinton supporting the giving of loans to people who shouldn't have loans! The market was doing what it was supposed to do. It wasn't giving loans to people who shouldn't have them and then people wanted the market to go crazy and make everybody feel all happy so we started giving out all these loans to people who can't afford them. The "creative" financing Clinton supported was the beginning of the end for this. I'm sure people love to see home ownership going up and up but let's face it, not everybody makes enough money to own a house.
Encouraging companies to give loans to those who can't afford it is a bad idea, flat out. This all started because the fed got involved in private practices and then tried to stop being involved but didn't get rid of the freebies and now we have to go get involved again. Had the Clinton administration not started this policy I find it highly, highly unlikely that the Bush administration would have bothered to try to start it up because we were already in a recession as a correction to the tech bubble of the Clinton administration.
I doubt we got it back 100,000 times over, we may have got a fair chunk of it back but still, it's the premise. If the US is really that F-ed then we need to stop sending money ANYWHERE. Pull the troops, pull all the foreign aid funding, pull all of it. But alas it's really not that bad.
Also, while I'm at it, the purported figure of $10 billion/month is horribly inflated. Why? Do you think all those military members would be "laid off" if we didn't have them over there? Do you think we wouldn't be spending money on advancing our weapons systems? Of course we're spending more than we would otherwise but I have yet to find anyone to get the REAL numbers and report them. The people on side of the aisle say the biggest number and the people on the other side say the smallest. Realistically it's somewhere in between.
And, I don't have a link to it right now but Time ran an article that pointed the end of bi-partisan politics. It was the Monica Lewinsky fiasco... No Monica Lewinsky fiasco and Social Security would be fixed (Newt and Bill were working on that when the Lewinsky fiasco broke). So, thanks Monica - you didn't F Bill but you, unknowlingly, F-ed the rest of us, awesome...
What we are seeing is simply the inevitable, eventual consequence of an economic system that is addicted to keeping itself solvent by perpetually borrowing money at rates that are perpetually lower than the rates at which they previously borrowed money. The housing market meltdown is merely the straw that broke the camel?s back.
Congress just finished voting on the ?bailout? plan, and the Republican members of congress voted it down. There comes a time when it is best to just take your medicine. Banks that have been poorly managed need to be allowed to fail and be acquired by banks that have been managed better. The downturn in the housing market needs to be allowed to run its course. We are probably looking at a recession that will last for a couple of years, but the overall economy will recover, and when it does, it will be far stronger than it has ever been, at any other time in history.
Companies will need cash to carry them through the next 2-3 years, and Apple presently has plenty of cash to do that. I will continue to own the shares of Apple stock that I presently own. I am presently in my mid-fifties, and I fully expect that if I live a normal live expectancy, that I will live to see the Apple stock that I presently own increase in value by at least a factor of ten, if not a hundred. The present dip in the value of Apple stock is merely a small bump in the road.
Apple is opening retail outlets around the world at a remarkable pace, which is an excellent way to spend that excess cash and enhance their future profitability. The iPhone was conceived and implemented as a global product, and it is the first time there has really been a serious, un-compromised effort to evolve the mobile telephone into a highly mobile platform for general computing applications. Anyone who does not realize that this is the manifest evolution of the mobile telephone, and that it is perfectly timed and perfectly executed by Apple, simply lacks vision. There has never, ever been a consumer product that has been so carefully thought through as this. Apple has made mistakes in the past, and they have learned from them. They have thought this product through from every conceivable angle, to include their ability control which applications will be able to run on their proprietary platform. There is the very real potential for this proprietary run-time platform to develop into a de facto standard for devices of this sort, and if this plays out, Apple will be in a very envious and lucrative position. Other companies that make gadgets and that want a piece of that action will have to play on Apple?s terms, to include Apple?s terms with respect to the App store being the only source for applications that will be allowed to run on that proprietary platform. That could eventually lead to a situation where courts would intervene, but that sort of intervention would only occur long after Apple has been forced to buy up a bunch of failing banks for lack of anything better to do with all the money they?ve accumulated over the years.
Let's take a look at the current (29.09.08) Apple Mac landscape:
Products that are SO long overdue an update that, quite frankly, it's embarrassing:
? Mac Mini
? MacBook
? MacBook Pro
? Cinema Display
Products that could do with an update soon:
? iMac
? Mac Pro
Products that are (fairly) up to date:
? MacBook Air
Products that are bang up to date:
? ?
We're in the middle of a full-on recession and it's no surprise that the analysts think that nobody is going to buy Apple's current products in any volume.
But hey, we've got multi-coloured iPods and an iPhone that should have been 3G a year ago.
Apple is one of the most innovative American companies. IBM is no slouch either, with thousands of patents and discoveries over the years. I wouldn't bet against either, long term.
Likewise, those that are jumping on the bandwagon and spewing nonsense against the U.S., I wouldn't bet against America.
We've done quite well over the decades with no system of govt. equalling ours in terms of innovation, entrepreneurialism, freedoms, and results.
In fact, without our intervention from time to time, many countries would have suffered greatly or even faded away into history.
We've had a housing bubble pop. It's going to be painful and take time to recover. But we will recover. I guess we have to take the cheap shots while we're down... the price of our long term, world beating successes.
AAPL is probably going to go lower before it recovers, due to external factors beyond their control. I'd wait a little bit and then buy in. This is my humble opinion.
true, I was thinking in the current spectacular financial climate though.
Apple ARE cheap products but only to make. Good marketing savvy a false air of increased usability and quality lets them sell at ridiculous prices.
Mr Jobs is a clever man no doubt. But if no one has any cash then.....
But that goes back to my previous point. Has your actual cash flow changed? Mine hasn't - not one cent. In fact, with the market going in the crapper oil went down like mad so I'll actually have more money since I won't have to pay as much for gas. Did my 401k go down? Of course but I'm 26 so I really don't care if it goes down today - I'm all about long term and at no point in our history has the market been lower 40 years later. If anything this is just a great time to buy and capitalize on the dividends to give you more shares!
Glass is half-full for me and has been well known for ages "your perception determines your reality." If we weren't all so plugged into caring about the market it wouldn't be doing nearly as bad (or as well) as it has in the past few years...
Tomorrow is the last day of the quarter. Hedge funds like to close out winning positions so they can report quarterly profits. If they've been short AAPL, as many have, there should be a ten-point one-day bounce up from their covering. (Unless the market tanks.)
It is just disgusting that these analysts single out Apple for a downgrade during such an uncertain time in the American economy.
These vultures know that any attempt to manipulate a stock price down would be amplified and they will be able to steal Apple stock at an artificially cheap price. If these bastards had decided to downgrade Ford or GM today, those companies could be bankrupted immediately.
People's plans to buy cars are much more adversely affected by the prevailing financial climate than their plans to by computers or iPods or iPhones. This seems like a conspiracy to screw Apple and I hope that an SEC with some balls might want to throw these crooks in jail.
Apples going to eat up market share like Bank of America is eating up banks!
Nasdaq is currently valued at 100:1 and the Dow at 10:1 per share to actual value.All these companies are over valued fundamentaly.Apple is going to make strong progress.
First: given recent events why does anyone listen to a banker? They've made it abundantly clear they have no idea how to manage our money so why is anyone still listening to them?
Second: investment bankers do have one ace in the hole. They can play both sides of the manipulation game and profit on every move.
Apples going to eat up market share like Bank of America is eating up banks!
Nasdaq is currently valued at 100:1 and the Dow at 10:1 per share to actual value.All these companies are over valued fundamentaly.Apple is going to make strong progress.
Highly Unlikely. Didn't a few predict Apple would be at 250 a share by now? Don't hear anyone bashing Microsoft today.
Let's take a look at the current (29.09.08) Apple Mac landscape:
Products that are SO long overdue an update that, quite frankly, it's embarrassing:
? Mac Mini
? MacBook
? MacBook Pro
? Cinema Display
Products that could do with an update soon:
? iMac
? Mac Pro
Products that are (fairly) up to date:
? MacBook Air
Products that are bang up to date:
? ?
We're in the middle of a full-on recession and it's no surprise that the analysts think that nobody is going to buy Apple's current products in any volume.
But hey, we've got multi-coloured iPods and an iPhone that should have been 3G a year ago.
So what should Apple do wise one, I guess updating all their products will just make everything all better right.
I think she is referring to the sub $100 portable market, not desktops. It will seem silly however, if, as many pundits think, Apple has an answer to this market segment in the next event on October 14th or so.
Quite the gamble really. If a person buys stock today at a seriously under-valued $100 or so price, and then *if* Apple comes out with the new mystery device that conquers that market segment in early October, then it's huge profit for anyone who took the risk.
If on the other hand the announcement is just about laptop refreshes that are slightly cheaper, then the stock will dive even further and it's a big loss (at least short term). Interesting days indeed.
Mr. Jobs has a gigantic blind spot when it comes to low priced computers, and Apple in general doesn't usually care what the rest of the market is doing or try to respond to market trends like the sub $100 net books, they just make what they make, knowing that if it's good it will sell. So it's entirely possible that Apple *doesn't* have a sub-100 answer in the works.
Actually she said sub-$1000 PCs not notebooks. I checked this on many websites.
I agree with you about the risk but I believe in the long run aapl will gain most of the losses it suffered this year.
Look at how many people here are so happy to see Apple stock goes down! They forget that people buy Mac, iPhone, and iPods because they are great products not because Apple shares are high. Apple will keep rolling out great products regardless of the stock price.
Macdailynews quotes an article out today in Esquire that strongly insinuates that Jobs is ill. That means that the most likely reason for most of the recent price decline is that this speculation was passed around Wall Street in whispers for the past month. (It's likely that early word of the article leaked out.) It also means that, if Jobs announces his retirement, there won't be much downside left in AAPL, because the shorts have already "sold on the rumor" so heavily. Thus, then will be the time to "buy on the news." Or earlier.
Hmm, so Apple has $22b in the bank, and the share price is dropping to a very low point. If Apple believe in their future products and profitability, could we expect to see them buy up a lot of their own shares, especially if they tumble below $100? Then they can sell them in the future when they are $200+ again, and raise a metric buttload of cash.
Or they can sell their products for a much cheaper price and take the hit on their profits! $399 Mac Mini por favor!
I agree, this would be a perfect opportunity for Apple to buy back their own stock.
Macdailynews quotes an article out today in Esquire that strongly insinuates that Jobs is ill. If true, that means that the most likely reason for most of the recent price decline is that this speculation was passed around Wall Street in whispers for the past month. (It's likely that early word of the article leaked out.) It also means that, if Jobs announces his retirement, there won't be much downside left in AAPL, because the shorts have already "sold on the rumor" so heavily. Thus, then will be time to "buy on the news." Or earlier.
These downgrades were a conspiricy to allow the Hedgefunds to exit short positions, make a ton of money on Puts, and buy back in. The hedgefunds needed to get out before they were forced to make their short positions public. Note these analysts reached exactly the same estimate for 2009 earnings - $5.47. How often does that happen? They also know Apple will announce a Macbook in the under $1000 market in October. These people timed it perfectly. Quarter ends tomorrow. I hope the SEC has a look at this. I don't think they were counting on the failure by congress to approve the bail out bill. They did create the initial downward momentum to the largest drop in the Nasdaq since the Dot Com bubble burst. MS and RBC - shame on you!
Comments
No Reagan did start the mess. Reaganomics turned out to be a huge failure.
What Clinton did in the 90's was good for everybody and, most importantly, possible with the then healthy economy. Bush turned a great economy into a mess in just a few years, and instead of making good adjustments he worsened them... well for 99% of us, not for the 1% that became hugely rich because of it.
And that bit about the US giving huge amounts of money to the rest of the world and never getting anything back... The US never helped without gaining profit of it themselves, and there is nothing wrong with that, this includes the rebuilding of Europe after WWII, a huge investment from the US, but they earned it back a 100000 times too.
Wait - did you actually read the link or just comment on it? Clinton supporting the giving of loans to people who shouldn't have loans! The market was doing what it was supposed to do. It wasn't giving loans to people who shouldn't have them and then people wanted the market to go crazy and make everybody feel all happy so we started giving out all these loans to people who can't afford them. The "creative" financing Clinton supported was the beginning of the end for this. I'm sure people love to see home ownership going up and up but let's face it, not everybody makes enough money to own a house.
Encouraging companies to give loans to those who can't afford it is a bad idea, flat out. This all started because the fed got involved in private practices and then tried to stop being involved but didn't get rid of the freebies and now we have to go get involved again. Had the Clinton administration not started this policy I find it highly, highly unlikely that the Bush administration would have bothered to try to start it up because we were already in a recession as a correction to the tech bubble of the Clinton administration.
I doubt we got it back 100,000 times over, we may have got a fair chunk of it back but still, it's the premise. If the US is really that F-ed then we need to stop sending money ANYWHERE. Pull the troops, pull all the foreign aid funding, pull all of it. But alas it's really not that bad.
Also, while I'm at it, the purported figure of $10 billion/month is horribly inflated. Why? Do you think all those military members would be "laid off" if we didn't have them over there? Do you think we wouldn't be spending money on advancing our weapons systems? Of course we're spending more than we would otherwise but I have yet to find anyone to get the REAL numbers and report them. The people on side of the aisle say the biggest number and the people on the other side say the smallest. Realistically it's somewhere in between.
And, I don't have a link to it right now but Time ran an article that pointed the end of bi-partisan politics. It was the Monica Lewinsky fiasco... No Monica Lewinsky fiasco and Social Security would be fixed (Newt and Bill were working on that when the Lewinsky fiasco broke). So, thanks Monica - you didn't F Bill but you, unknowlingly, F-ed the rest of us, awesome...
woahhh! you just made my spit coke all over my desk!!
Apple = VFM??
you REALLY think that?
they may make good products, nice and well designed products but nothing they do is VFM.
for the 'internet masses' you could easily put together a really nice rig running Ubu for under $400.
Well, in his defense. VFM does include ease of use and stability. Also, the operative word in your statement is *could*.
If everyone just made Ubuntu boxes for $400 then there would be no Apple, Dell, HP, Gateway or MS (at least not in their current capacity).
Congress just finished voting on the ?bailout? plan, and the Republican members of congress voted it down. There comes a time when it is best to just take your medicine. Banks that have been poorly managed need to be allowed to fail and be acquired by banks that have been managed better. The downturn in the housing market needs to be allowed to run its course. We are probably looking at a recession that will last for a couple of years, but the overall economy will recover, and when it does, it will be far stronger than it has ever been, at any other time in history.
Companies will need cash to carry them through the next 2-3 years, and Apple presently has plenty of cash to do that. I will continue to own the shares of Apple stock that I presently own. I am presently in my mid-fifties, and I fully expect that if I live a normal live expectancy, that I will live to see the Apple stock that I presently own increase in value by at least a factor of ten, if not a hundred. The present dip in the value of Apple stock is merely a small bump in the road.
Apple is opening retail outlets around the world at a remarkable pace, which is an excellent way to spend that excess cash and enhance their future profitability. The iPhone was conceived and implemented as a global product, and it is the first time there has really been a serious, un-compromised effort to evolve the mobile telephone into a highly mobile platform for general computing applications. Anyone who does not realize that this is the manifest evolution of the mobile telephone, and that it is perfectly timed and perfectly executed by Apple, simply lacks vision. There has never, ever been a consumer product that has been so carefully thought through as this. Apple has made mistakes in the past, and they have learned from them. They have thought this product through from every conceivable angle, to include their ability control which applications will be able to run on their proprietary platform. There is the very real potential for this proprietary run-time platform to develop into a de facto standard for devices of this sort, and if this plays out, Apple will be in a very envious and lucrative position. Other companies that make gadgets and that want a piece of that action will have to play on Apple?s terms, to include Apple?s terms with respect to the App store being the only source for applications that will be allowed to run on that proprietary platform. That could eventually lead to a situation where courts would intervene, but that sort of intervention would only occur long after Apple has been forced to buy up a bunch of failing banks for lack of anything better to do with all the money they?ve accumulated over the years.
Products that are SO long overdue an update that, quite frankly, it's embarrassing:
? Mac Mini
? MacBook
? MacBook Pro
? Cinema Display
Products that could do with an update soon:
? iMac
? Mac Pro
Products that are (fairly) up to date:
? MacBook Air
Products that are bang up to date:
? ?
We're in the middle of a full-on recession and it's no surprise that the analysts think that nobody is going to buy Apple's current products in any volume.
But hey, we've got multi-coloured iPods and an iPhone that should have been 3G a year ago.
Likewise, those that are jumping on the bandwagon and spewing nonsense against the U.S., I wouldn't bet against America.
We've done quite well over the decades with no system of govt. equalling ours in terms of innovation, entrepreneurialism, freedoms, and results.
In fact, without our intervention from time to time, many countries would have suffered greatly or even faded away into history.
We've had a housing bubble pop. It's going to be painful and take time to recover. But we will recover. I guess we have to take the cheap shots while we're down... the price of our long term, world beating successes.
AAPL is probably going to go lower before it recovers, due to external factors beyond their control. I'd wait a little bit and then buy in. This is my humble opinion.
Well, in his defense. VFM does include ease of use and stability. Also, the operative word in your statement is *could*.
If everyone just made Ubuntu boxes for $400 then there would be no Apple, Dell, HP, Gateway or MS (at least not in their current capacity).
true, I was thinking in the current spectacular financial climate though.
Apple ARE cheap products but only to make. Good marketing savvy a flase air of increased usibility and quality lets them sell at ridiculous prices.
Mr Jobs is a clever man no doubt. But if no one has any cash then.....
See - not everything is bad!!
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/com...rgyprices.html
Edit: It wasn't just the Republicans who voted it down. 2/3 of Republicans voted against it and 40% of Democrats voted against it.
true, I was thinking in the current spectacular financial climate though.
Apple ARE cheap products but only to make. Good marketing savvy a false air of increased usability and quality lets them sell at ridiculous prices.
Mr Jobs is a clever man no doubt. But if no one has any cash then.....
But that goes back to my previous point. Has your actual cash flow changed? Mine hasn't - not one cent. In fact, with the market going in the crapper oil went down like mad so I'll actually have more money since I won't have to pay as much for gas. Did my 401k go down? Of course but I'm 26 so I really don't care if it goes down today - I'm all about long term and at no point in our history has the market been lower 40 years later. If anything this is just a great time to buy and capitalize on the dividends to give you more shares!
Glass is half-full for me and has been well known for ages "your perception determines your reality." If we weren't all so plugged into caring about the market it wouldn't be doing nearly as bad (or as well) as it has in the past few years...
Unless...it hasn't hit bottom yet.
Tomorrow is the last day of the quarter. Hedge funds like to close out winning positions so they can report quarterly profits. If they've been short AAPL, as many have, there should be a ten-point one-day bounce up from their covering. (Unless the market tanks.)
These vultures know that any attempt to manipulate a stock price down would be amplified and they will be able to steal Apple stock at an artificially cheap price. If these bastards had decided to downgrade Ford or GM today, those companies could be bankrupted immediately.
People's plans to buy cars are much more adversely affected by the prevailing financial climate than their plans to by computers or iPods or iPhones. This seems like a conspiracy to screw Apple and I hope that an SEC with some balls might want to throw these crooks in jail.
Apples going to eat up market share like Bank of America is eating up banks!
Nasdaq is currently valued at 100:1 and the Dow at 10:1 per share to actual value.All these companies are over valued fundamentaly.Apple is going to make strong progress.
Agreed.
Even if it hasn't hit bottom yet, it's still a good time to buy for the longterm.
I'm in so we shall see.
Second: investment bankers do have one ace in the hole. They can play both sides of the manipulation game and profit on every move.
Buy a stock
Say positive things to help it rise
Sell the stock
Say negative things to spook the market
Buy it back
Repeat ad nauseam
Morgan Stanley and RBC are laughing again.
Apples going to eat up market share like Bank of America is eating up banks!
Nasdaq is currently valued at 100:1 and the Dow at 10:1 per share to actual value.All these companies are over valued fundamentaly.Apple is going to make strong progress.
Highly Unlikely. Didn't a few predict Apple would be at 250 a share by now? Don't hear anyone bashing Microsoft today.
Let's take a look at the current (29.09.08) Apple Mac landscape:
Products that are SO long overdue an update that, quite frankly, it's embarrassing:
? Mac Mini
? MacBook
? MacBook Pro
? Cinema Display
Products that could do with an update soon:
? iMac
? Mac Pro
Products that are (fairly) up to date:
? MacBook Air
Products that are bang up to date:
? ?
We're in the middle of a full-on recession and it's no surprise that the analysts think that nobody is going to buy Apple's current products in any volume.
But hey, we've got multi-coloured iPods and an iPhone that should have been 3G a year ago.
So what should Apple do wise one, I guess updating all their products will just make everything all better right.
I think she is referring to the sub $100 portable market, not desktops. It will seem silly however, if, as many pundits think, Apple has an answer to this market segment in the next event on October 14th or so.
Quite the gamble really.
If on the other hand the announcement is just about laptop refreshes that are slightly cheaper, then the stock will dive even further and it's a big loss (at least short term). Interesting days indeed.
Mr. Jobs has a gigantic blind spot when it comes to low priced computers, and Apple in general doesn't usually care what the rest of the market is doing or try to respond to market trends like the sub $100 net books, they just make what they make, knowing that if it's good it will sell. So it's entirely possible that Apple *doesn't* have a sub-100 answer in the works.
Actually she said sub-$1000 PCs not notebooks. I checked this on many websites.
I agree with you about the risk but I believe in the long run aapl will gain most of the losses it suffered this year.
Look at how many people here are so happy to see Apple stock goes down! They forget that people buy Mac, iPhone, and iPods because they are great products not because Apple shares are high. Apple will keep rolling out great products regardless of the stock price.
Hmm, so Apple has $22b in the bank, and the share price is dropping to a very low point. If Apple believe in their future products and profitability, could we expect to see them buy up a lot of their own shares, especially if they tumble below $100? Then they can sell them in the future when they are $200+ again, and raise a metric buttload of cash.
Or they can sell their products for a much cheaper price and take the hit on their profits! $399 Mac Mini por favor!
I agree, this would be a perfect opportunity for Apple to buy back their own stock.
Macdailynews quotes an article out today in Esquire that strongly insinuates that Jobs is ill. If true, that means that the most likely reason for most of the recent price decline is that this speculation was passed around Wall Street in whispers for the past month. (It's likely that early word of the article leaked out.) It also means that, if Jobs announces his retirement, there won't be much downside left in AAPL, because the shorts have already "sold on the rumor" so heavily. Thus, then will be time to "buy on the news." Or earlier.
When you quoted the Esquire story, you forgot to link it.
Guess what Steve's multi-touch gravestone will say....
"One more thing..."