Regarding lower specs at a higher pricetag, these things better include some magical $400 battery to compensate, because all of Apple's laptops were already $300-$400 higher priced than the competition, and the inclusion of a graphics card does not compensate for that. Maybe if they also included Blu-Ray these prices would be decent, but it doesn't sound like that will be the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausage&Onion
Let's be honest, on the cinema displays, matte is the only way to go, but the matte laptop displays are nowhere NEAR color correct. At first I was outraged, but then again, if you are doing color critical work, you should not be doing it on ANY laptop screen, period.
That's kind of how I feel about it. You can't get accurate color from a laptop screen anyhow, so it might as well look pretty.
I love the fact that Intel's integrated chips are out. I couldn't be happier. But, compared to what is offered in PCs, Apple's machines with dedicated chips were overpriced. Now that they've put good GPUs in, it means they are better but still overpriced and now way too expensive for people who don't care about a GPU. The old white ibooks had dedicated chips with dedicated VRam for the price the Macbook is now.
The firewire issue remains to be seen - let's just hope the ethernet combo port is in there or this is going to be pretty bad IMO.
No glossy option is going to turn a lot of people off, displayport or not - an external matte doesn't solve this. People are generally 50/50 about glossy so Apple just cut out 50% of their pro laptop users. What about people who shoot/edit on location, what about DJs that use them in nightclubs with bright lights?
Knock off $200 from every model and I would justify most of these mistakes as cost-cutting measures but not the way it looks now. And on that subject, what happened to the margins reductions that oh so surprisingly has ended up with the consumer paying more money?
I agree about the new display too - $899 is way too much. It will be a Cinema display so it's meant for pro use and has better technology - they never have been targeted at consumers - but even at that, high end displays from Sony, Samsung, Dell etc can be bought cheaper than that.
Well, I know Apple is American, as far as California is a part of the US. With an (former) Austrian governor, California is maybe on the verge of adopting Euro as commercial currency, who knows?
As for the income level in the UK, I must admit I have no clue. As an average editor, I earn something like € 2000 a month. By no means I imply that this is the current average income in France, but it is no way exceptional (for example, I have many friends teachers that earn about the same amount as I do). Take also into account that the average prices here in France are 20 to 30% lower than the UK ones, except maybe for pudding or cheddar.
Nevertheless, don't be fooled. We are not rolling over gold, as the French saying goes. But yet, a € 1000 MacBook is not something out of reach or reserved to a very happy few.
Well if it wasn't for Apple I'd say you can have CA! haha
I wasn't really saying that 1000 Euros is expensive I'm just saying it's no less expensive than 1200-1300 USD is. I really don't know about your job profession so I can comment on what the average American gets paid for that job but I think Americans get paid higher than jsut 1:1 compared to the Euro (which is considering the current exchange rate).
Don't you guys have the big bank problem that we do as well? I'd say the global economy (save for Japan maybe) isn't doing too hot and Apple is picking a poor time to increase their prices.
Not really. At least it looks like there may be some sort of base model at $999, maybe continuing to sell the old base model a little cheaper...but that seems like an awful way to try and address the budget market at a time when that is most crucial.
The way I see it there are two big possible downsides to this announcement if all that we think we know now turns out to be true. Specifically, if Apple really is going to sell lower chip speeds at the same price and also sell almost all their systems at the same price points as last time...
1) Sure, the Megahertz is no longer a good rule of thumb to determine overall snappiness, but the average consumer doesn't know that and doesn't think that way.
2) Sure the reasons for the prices are based on a lower dollar and the fact that the end user is actually getting more value for that same price, but the average consumer doesn't care and will only see the sticker price.
Managing public perceptions and understanding the low end of the consumer market has always been one of Apple's weak points. I doesn't matter if the products are a good value for the money, if all the consumers see is:
- no cheap laptops like all the other manufacturers are selling
- no small netbook/latops like all the other manufacturers are selling
- no lower prices in general
The economic climate also figures in to this in that it's the absolute worst time not to come out with a cheaper product. People are expecting it and will likely be disappointed. The disappointment will lead to negative articles and that won't be good.
Here here! Someone that understands product marketing. Apple also understands product marketing, so lets hope not all of these rumors are true. It wasn't that they didn't know how to target the low end consumer before, it was that they weren't trying to do so.
It's not the end of the world if these specs are true (except for my stock at $136/share that will drop). I've been holding out for the announcement myself and will just buy a refurb, clearance, or used Blackbook if I don't like the new offerings. No biggie. (except for, did I mention, my stock in AAPL... grrrrr...).
Pas de problem! Alors...You can change the keyboard by...System Preferences>International>Input Menu and then select all the keyboards you would like to use. You will notice a flag in the menu bar in the top right. Click it and flags will be there for the different keyboards (as well as the character palate). Here's an example of the same row in different keyboards:
Ã?U qwertyuiop[]\\
Fraçais azertyuiop^$`(the last is actually an accent)
Here here! Someone that understands product marketing. Apple also understands product marketing, so lets hope not all of these rumors are true. It wasn't that they didn't know how to target the low end consumer before, it was that they weren't trying to do so.
It's not the end of the world if these specs are true (except for my stock at $136/share that will drop). I've been holding out for the announcement myself and will just buy a refurb, clearance, or used Blackbook if I don't like the new offerings. No biggie. (except for, did I mention, my stock in AAPL... grrrrr...).
A perfect example of Virgil's point is the iPhone. It has sold like hotcakes despite the fact that, as we all know, the 2 year cost of the phone is higher than the first version. People only care about the initial sticker shock and can think of an increase in a month to month fee like saying "well I'll stay in 1 night a week for dinner."
1. On the one hand, this place is getting difficult to navigate without a mop to help soak up all the tears.
2. On the other hand, with so many people already disappointed about the new machines it should be easy for me to score one without having ot wait in a long line.
I've been working on a glossy screened Macbook for the last 2.5 years and never had a glare problem. I'm not saying this will be the case for everyone, but in my usage, it has never been an issue. These new machines will crush my 1st gen Macbook handily and I like the look of the new aluminum enclosures. To each his own, but in my case these are looking pretty desirable.
Not really. At least it looks like there may be some sort of base model at $999, maybe continuing to sell the old base model a little cheaper...but that seems like an awful way to try and address the budget market at a time when that is most crucial.
The current $1099 model could probably turn a profit for Apple even if they sold it at $799. If they're just going to knock $100 off it's current price and change nothing else, that's really not good enough.
The way I see it there are two big possible downsides to this announcement if all that we think we know now turns out to be true. Specifically, if Apple really is going to sell lower chip speeds at the same price and also sell almost all their systems at the same price points as last time...
1) Sure, the Megahertz is no longer a good rule of thumb to determine overall snappiness, but the average consumer doesn't know that and doesn't think that way.
Since the term snappiness is somewhat ambiguous I guess you mean the time between an event initiated by the user (e.g. a mouse click) and a visible reaction on the screen (e.g. menu opens). It's true that this kind of "snappiness" has less to do with raw horse power and more with good CPU scheduling, memory management, etc. But from a pure processing power perspective it's simply slower, there's simply no way to get around that fact. CPU intensive tasks (evenly multi-threaded or not) like compiling source code or certain Photoshop filters will simply be slower on the new Macbook than on the old one and as a potential customer I'm in my rights to ask why I should pay more for less especially compared to offerings by the competitors. I'm having the slight suspicion that Apple is sitting a little bit to comfortable on the laurels they earned with Mac OS X.
Let's wait and see if these rumours will come true or not.
This 24" LED display could be killer. Folks, if you think an $899 LED-backlit IPS type LCD panel is expensive, you haven't done your homework. And with DisplayPort? Simply awesome if true.
Hopefully all of their Macbooks will have DisplayPort now.
Don't you guys have the big bank problem that we do as well? I'd say the global economy (save for Japan maybe) isn't doing too hot and Apple is picking a poor time to increase their prices.
Well, the European banks are doing better. We tend to have multi-domain banks where you tend to have more specialized banks. So, we don't have many banks that specialized in getting bankrupted. Likewise, people tend to invest more in "safe" investment than in the stock market. Likewise, we don't live on credits and loans as much as you do. This makes the economy less dynamic, but also more robust in the present times... Different tradeoff.
However, we will be hit by the US situation, just somewhat later and not quite as bad but probably a bit longer. Also, our banks are not going bankrupt, but they're going extra cautious to the point that it's getting difficult to get a loan both for people and business. This will hurt the economy as a whole. And since some European economies, like France, are supported mainly by the consummers, this will be pretty bad if they start having their loans denied (or if they're too afraid to apply)...
Anyway, the main problem here is not with the real economy, but with the perceived economy. And in Europe, the current fears are about unemployment, inflation and low income... Not exactly the best time to release more expensive products...
I perfect example of Virgil's point is the iPhone. It has sold like hotcakes despite the fact that, as we all know, the 2 year cost of the phone is higher than the first version. People only care about the initial sticker shock and can think of an increase in a month to month fee like saying "well I'll stay in 1 night a week for dinner."
You're also missing the point that the iPhone 3G sold worldwide and under different conditions...
In France, the iPhone 3G 16 Gb sells for 199? instead of 600?+. But the monthly price is *exactly* the same - I pay as much each month with a 3G as I would have with a first gen. Actually, Orange no longer differentiate, you can have the iPhone under a regular formula with an "iPhone" option (read, unlimited Internet). So, I would pay the same monthly fee with a Blackberry or a HTC.
In these countries, the 3G *is* actually a much much better deal than the first gen, with no hidden price or anything... Even more so given that 3G actually works for real coutry-wide here. For once, it seems like Europe got the better part of the deal with the new iPhone... And this explains why the sales went up as much around here... You saw the first gen once in a blue moon here, now I see the 3G daily on the subway...
I would be curious to know how much the increase in sales for the 3G comes from the USA or from the outside world.
Comments
when is the event actually going on?
1 hour and 20 minutes from now.
The only really exciting thing in the rumors was a model at $899.
With that rumor seemingly dead, there's nothing in this for me to get excited about, as a consumer or as an AAPL stockholder.
Seriously, they're RAISING the price on the base model? I sure hope not.
It's not making sense- is it?
Let's be honest, on the cinema displays, matte is the only way to go, but the matte laptop displays are nowhere NEAR color correct. At first I was outraged, but then again, if you are doing color critical work, you should not be doing it on ANY laptop screen, period.
That's kind of how I feel about it. You can't get accurate color from a laptop screen anyhow, so it might as well look pretty.
That's kind of how I feel about it. You can't get accurate color from a laptop screen anyhow, so it might as well look pretty.
A glarry screen is pretty?
Pretty does not usually equate with efficiency nor does thinness.
I love the fact that Intel's integrated chips are out. I couldn't be happier. But, compared to what is offered in PCs, Apple's machines with dedicated chips were overpriced. Now that they've put good GPUs in, it means they are better but still overpriced and now way too expensive for people who don't care about a GPU. The old white ibooks had dedicated chips with dedicated VRam for the price the Macbook is now.
The firewire issue remains to be seen - let's just hope the ethernet combo port is in there or this is going to be pretty bad IMO.
No glossy option is going to turn a lot of people off, displayport or not - an external matte doesn't solve this. People are generally 50/50 about glossy so Apple just cut out 50% of their pro laptop users. What about people who shoot/edit on location, what about DJs that use them in nightclubs with bright lights?
Knock off $200 from every model and I would justify most of these mistakes as cost-cutting measures but not the way it looks now. And on that subject, what happened to the margins reductions that oh so surprisingly has ended up with the consumer paying more money?
I agree about the new display too - $899 is way too much. It will be a Cinema display so it's meant for pro use and has better technology - they never have been targeted at consumers - but even at that, high end displays from Sony, Samsung, Dell etc can be bought cheaper than that.
Well, I know Apple is American, as far as California is a part of the US. With an (former) Austrian governor, California is maybe on the verge of adopting Euro as commercial currency, who knows?
As for the income level in the UK, I must admit I have no clue. As an average editor, I earn something like € 2000 a month. By no means I imply that this is the current average income in France, but it is no way exceptional (for example, I have many friends teachers that earn about the same amount as I do). Take also into account that the average prices here in France are 20 to 30% lower than the UK ones, except maybe for pudding or cheddar.
Nevertheless, don't be fooled. We are not rolling over gold, as the French saying goes. But yet, a € 1000 MacBook is not something out of reach or reserved to a very happy few.
Well if it wasn't for Apple I'd say you can have CA! haha
I wasn't really saying that 1000 Euros is expensive I'm just saying it's no less expensive than 1200-1300 USD is. I really don't know about your job profession so I can comment on what the average American gets paid for that job but I think Americans get paid higher than jsut 1:1 compared to the Euro (which is considering the current exchange rate).
Don't you guys have the big bank problem that we do as well? I'd say the global economy (save for Japan maybe) isn't doing too hot and Apple is picking a poor time to increase their prices.
It's not making sense- is it?
Not really. At least it looks like there may be some sort of base model at $999, maybe continuing to sell the old base model a little cheaper...but that seems like an awful way to try and address the budget market at a time when that is most crucial.
I guess I am going to have to pick up a VAIO now. So much for waiting.
That's kind of how I feel about it. You can't get accurate color from a laptop screen anyhow, so it might as well look pretty.
I would rather have it pleasant to use outside of a cave...
I know that. But the French AZERTY keybord has already built-in keys for é è ç Ã* ù and a dead ^ and dead ¨. I type more than 15 kiB of text every day, I am used to this keyboard like every French typographic specialist is, and I can't sacrifice it for a QWERTY, even if some weird keyboard combination gives me the same output. It is just like asking me to give you lengths in inches or weight in pounds. Just cerebrally impossible!
Does not setting the International Preference pain 'Input Menu' to French use the AZERTY keyboard? Certainly looking at the Keyboard Viewer suggests that it does, and the 'dead' keys you cried for are there too. Je l'ai essayé et il a travaillé pour moi.
Still the AZERTY keyboard has issues: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AZERTY
Well, it look like there will NOT be a Blu-Ray option.
I guess I am going to have to pick up a VAIO now. So much for waiting.
I hear you- but I hope not.
The way I see it there are two big possible downsides to this announcement if all that we think we know now turns out to be true. Specifically, if Apple really is going to sell lower chip speeds at the same price and also sell almost all their systems at the same price points as last time...
1) Sure, the Megahertz is no longer a good rule of thumb to determine overall snappiness, but the average consumer doesn't know that and doesn't think that way.
2) Sure the reasons for the prices are based on a lower dollar and the fact that the end user is actually getting more value for that same price, but the average consumer doesn't care and will only see the sticker price.
Managing public perceptions and understanding the low end of the consumer market has always been one of Apple's weak points. I doesn't matter if the products are a good value for the money, if all the consumers see is:
- no cheap laptops like all the other manufacturers are selling
- no small netbook/latops like all the other manufacturers are selling
- no lower prices in general
The economic climate also figures in to this in that it's the absolute worst time not to come out with a cheaper product. People are expecting it and will likely be disappointed. The disappointment will lead to negative articles and that won't be good.
Here here! Someone that understands product marketing. Apple also understands product marketing, so lets hope not all of these rumors are true. It wasn't that they didn't know how to target the low end consumer before, it was that they weren't trying to do so.
It's not the end of the world if these specs are true (except for my stock at $136/share that will drop). I've been holding out for the announcement myself and will just buy a refurb, clearance, or used Blackbook if I don't like the new offerings. No biggie. (except for, did I mention, my stock in AAPL... grrrrr...).
I know that. But the French AZERTY keybord has already built-in keys for é è ç Ã* ù and a dead ^ and dead ¨. I type more than 15 kiB of text every day, I am used to this keyboard like every French typographic specialist is, and I can't sacrifice it for a QWERTY, even if some weird keyboard combination gives me the same output. It is just like asking me to give you lengths in inches or weight in pounds. Just cerebrally impossible!
Pas de problem! Alors...You can change the keyboard by...System Preferences>International>Input Menu and then select all the keyboards you would like to use. You will notice a flag in the menu bar in the top right. Click it and flags will be there for the different keyboards (as well as the character palate). Here's an example of the same row in different keyboards:
Ã?U qwertyuiop[]\\
Fraçais azertyuiop^$`(the last is actually an accent)
Russe йцукенгшщзхъ
Grec ;ςερτυθιοπ[]\\
Tout la a creé par mon clavier american.
Here here! Someone that understands product marketing. Apple also understands product marketing, so lets hope not all of these rumors are true. It wasn't that they didn't know how to target the low end consumer before, it was that they weren't trying to do so.
It's not the end of the world if these specs are true (except for my stock at $136/share that will drop). I've been holding out for the announcement myself and will just buy a refurb, clearance, or used Blackbook if I don't like the new offerings. No biggie. (except for, did I mention, my stock in AAPL... grrrrr...).
A perfect example of Virgil's point is the iPhone. It has sold like hotcakes despite the fact that, as we all know, the 2 year cost of the phone is higher than the first version. People only care about the initial sticker shock and can think of an increase in a month to month fee like saying "well I'll stay in 1 night a week for dinner."
1. On the one hand, this place is getting difficult to navigate without a mop to help soak up all the tears.
2. On the other hand, with so many people already disappointed about the new machines it should be easy for me to score one without having ot wait in a long line.
I've been working on a glossy screened Macbook for the last 2.5 years and never had a glare problem. I'm not saying this will be the case for everyone, but in my usage, it has never been an issue. These new machines will crush my 1st gen Macbook handily and I like the look of the new aluminum enclosures. To each his own, but in my case these are looking pretty desirable.
Not really. At least it looks like there may be some sort of base model at $999, maybe continuing to sell the old base model a little cheaper...but that seems like an awful way to try and address the budget market at a time when that is most crucial.
The current $1099 model could probably turn a profit for Apple even if they sold it at $799. If they're just going to knock $100 off it's current price and change nothing else, that's really not good enough.
The way I see it there are two big possible downsides to this announcement if all that we think we know now turns out to be true. Specifically, if Apple really is going to sell lower chip speeds at the same price and also sell almost all their systems at the same price points as last time...
1) Sure, the Megahertz is no longer a good rule of thumb to determine overall snappiness, but the average consumer doesn't know that and doesn't think that way.
Since the term snappiness is somewhat ambiguous I guess you mean the time between an event initiated by the user (e.g. a mouse click) and a visible reaction on the screen (e.g. menu opens). It's true that this kind of "snappiness" has less to do with raw horse power and more with good CPU scheduling, memory management, etc. But from a pure processing power perspective it's simply slower, there's simply no way to get around that fact. CPU intensive tasks (evenly multi-threaded or not) like compiling source code or certain Photoshop filters will simply be slower on the new Macbook than on the old one and as a potential customer I'm in my rights to ask why I should pay more for less especially compared to offerings by the competitors. I'm having the slight suspicion that Apple is sitting a little bit to comfortable on the laurels they earned with Mac OS X.
Let's wait and see if these rumours will come true or not.
Hopefully all of their Macbooks will have DisplayPort now.
Don't you guys have the big bank problem that we do as well? I'd say the global economy (save for Japan maybe) isn't doing too hot and Apple is picking a poor time to increase their prices.
Well, the European banks are doing better. We tend to have multi-domain banks where you tend to have more specialized banks. So, we don't have many banks that specialized in getting bankrupted. Likewise, people tend to invest more in "safe" investment than in the stock market. Likewise, we don't live on credits and loans as much as you do. This makes the economy less dynamic, but also more robust in the present times... Different tradeoff.
However, we will be hit by the US situation, just somewhat later and not quite as bad but probably a bit longer. Also, our banks are not going bankrupt, but they're going extra cautious to the point that it's getting difficult to get a loan both for people and business. This will hurt the economy as a whole. And since some European economies, like France, are supported mainly by the consummers, this will be pretty bad if they start having their loans denied (or if they're too afraid to apply)...
Anyway, the main problem here is not with the real economy, but with the perceived economy. And in Europe, the current fears are about unemployment, inflation and low income... Not exactly the best time to release more expensive products...
I perfect example of Virgil's point is the iPhone. It has sold like hotcakes despite the fact that, as we all know, the 2 year cost of the phone is higher than the first version. People only care about the initial sticker shock and can think of an increase in a month to month fee like saying "well I'll stay in 1 night a week for dinner."
You're also missing the point that the iPhone 3G sold worldwide and under different conditions...
In France, the iPhone 3G 16 Gb sells for 199? instead of 600?+. But the monthly price is *exactly* the same - I pay as much each month with a 3G as I would have with a first gen. Actually, Orange no longer differentiate, you can have the iPhone under a regular formula with an "iPhone" option (read, unlimited Internet). So, I would pay the same monthly fee with a Blackberry or a HTC.
In these countries, the 3G *is* actually a much much better deal than the first gen, with no hidden price or anything... Even more so given that 3G actually works for real coutry-wide here. For once, it seems like Europe got the better part of the deal with the new iPhone... And this explains why the sales went up as much around here... You saw the first gen once in a blue moon here, now I see the 3G daily on the subway...
I would be curious to know how much the increase in sales for the 3G comes from the USA or from the outside world.