Yes, 800 is backwards compatible. You can connect FireWire 400 devices to an 800 port with an adapter. edit: or with a 400/800 cable as mentioned above by Outsider.
I think it's obvious that FireWire 400 is dead as far as Mac laptops are concerned. The best that can be hoped for is that there will be 13" MacBook models with FireWire 800, but don't hold your breath.
What exactly is obvious about it? What facts do have to support that? Or, is this all conjecture, as I suspect? It would be great if Apple put FW 800 in the MacBook, but I'm not holding my breath.
I think it's obvious that FireWire 400 is dead as far as Mac laptops are concerned. The best that can be hoped for is that there will be 13" MacBook models with FireWire 800, but don't hold your breath.
I disagree. I think Firewire 400 and 800 are dead. Firewire 3200 is ready, is backward compatible, and has the exact same connector as FW800.
Why not just put the next-gen standard on right now across the line?
Apple has the tech in-house. Maybe Apple has a surprise for us in the next two hours.
For at least another 19 minutes, that is conjecture.
Yeah, you keep believing that if you want. It's possible that Apple will keep an old plastic MacBook at the bottom end and not update the 17" yet, but none of the new aluminium MacBooks (13" & 15") will have a dedicated FireWire 400 port.
We now know that Apple has indeed removed both FW400 and FW800 from the MacBook --without replacing it with an alternative.
I've read through this entire thread, and not one person has yet answered my question:
WHAT IS THE NEW PROCEDURE FOR TRANSFERRING FILES FROM THE MACBOOK TO ANOTHER COMPUTER??
Until now, the only really efficient, quick and reliable way to do that was by connecting a FireWire cable and restarting while holding down the T key. USB doesn't work like that. So . . .
So how -- specifically -- are we supposed to transfer files from/to the new MacBook?
WHAT IS THE NEW PROCEDURE FOR TRANSFERRING FILES FROM THE MACBOOK TO ANOTHER COMPUTER??
USB2.0, 802.11n and 1000BASE-T are all great for transferring files. If you are actually referring to the Migration Assistant app, you can currently use WiFi since the MBA doesn't have FW, so I'm sure Apple will do the same thing for these MBs.
I disagree. I think Firewire 400 and 800 are dead. Firewire 3200 is ready, is backward compatible, and has the exact same connector as FW800.
With the paucity of existing FW devices, and Apple itself effectively deprecating FW, why would any vendor jump on the FW3200 bandwagon? Intel owns the USB standard and has effectively quashed FW on the PC side by ignoring it, while eSATA external disks are so much easier to find than FW ones despite its newness. A whole lot of people think of USB only in terms of peak bandwidth, while ignoring Firewire's superior sustained bandwidth, latency, timing, and the ability to chain devices. You can't beat that kind of ignorance. On a form-factor constrained design like a notebook, you'd think the ability to attach several devices with only 1 port, without an external hub, would make FW very popular. You would be wrong, apparently notebook designers prefer spending space and dollars on multiple USB ports. Firewire has made itself the repeat of Beta.
With the paucity of existing FW devices, and Apple itself effectively deprecating FW, why would any vendor jump on the FW3200 bandwagon? Intel owns the USB standard and has effectively quashed FW on the PC side by ignoring it, while eSATA external disks are so much easier to find than FW ones despite its newness. A whole lot of people think of USB only in terms of peak bandwidth, while ignoring Firewire's superior sustained bandwidth, latency, timing, and the ability to chain devices. You can't beat that kind of ignorance. On a form-factor constrained design like a notebook, you'd think the ability to attach several devices with only 1 port, without an external hub, would make FW very popular. You would be wrong, apparently notebook designers prefer spending space and dollars on multiple USB ports. Firewire has made itself the repeat of Beta.
I had no problem walking into Costco and buying a Half Terabyte Western Digital FW/USB drive for 104.99.
I had multiple options there as well but didn't want to spend $40 more for 750GB.
Though to answer your question. Vendors that use FW3.2Gbps will be the ones that must leverage the architectural benefits of FW. USB thusfar has been a connection that is decent on burst transfers but doesn't have the latency numbers to effectively deal with some times of data (audio namely)
USB 3.0 will support duplex read/write so latency should go down but it's still a host based connection meaning it needs that computer in the chain.
I fully agree with you. Apple's reticence in promoting Firewire has been egregious. I sit here and read posts where many of us are awaiting for that next major product that is a game changer but honestly I'm worried. Does Apple even have the desire necessary to create such a product?
Time will tell but today it seems like Apple is focused mainly on differentiation via software and like a sports player consumed with stats Apple is enjoying success like they've never seen on Wall Street and this could color their views on all products. Microsoft has entered and then vacated different technological areas once it became clear they wouldn't have a new billion dollar product line.
WHAT IS THE NEW PROCEDURE FOR TRANSFERRING FILES FROM THE MACBOOK TO ANOTHER COMPUTER??
There is no new procedure; just the old cabled or wireless network ones. Or something Time Machine-based. This is why the loss of FW entailed such a rage in the Mac community.
Premature burial... Apple could have waited for USB3, but there is a number of schedule issues here. That's why, I believe, they removed it so early. Oh, moreover FW is now a pro feature (or so Apple makes us think).
Comments
I am not yet convinced
I hope you're right!
Is there not some compatibility between the two?
there is perfect compatibility with the 2. You simply replace your FW400/FW400 cable with a FW400/FW800 cable.
Is there not some compatibility between the two?
Yes, 800 is backwards compatible. You can connect FireWire 400 devices to an 800 port with an adapter. edit: or with a 400/800 cable as mentioned above by Outsider.
I think it's obvious that FireWire 400 is dead as far as Mac laptops are concerned. The best that can be hoped for is that there will be 13" MacBook models with FireWire 800, but don't hold your breath.
What exactly is obvious about it? What facts do have to support that? Or, is this all conjecture, as I suspect? It would be great if Apple put FW 800 in the MacBook, but I'm not holding my breath.
I think it's obvious that FireWire 400 is dead as far as Mac laptops are concerned. The best that can be hoped for is that there will be 13" MacBook models with FireWire 800, but don't hold your breath.
I disagree. I think Firewire 400 and 800 are dead. Firewire 3200 is ready, is backward compatible, and has the exact same connector as FW800.
Why not just put the next-gen standard on right now across the line?
Apple has the tech in-house. Maybe Apple has a surprise for us in the next two hours.
Many of the audio interfaces out there rely exclusively on Firewire, and for fast backup, Firewire hard drives.
If the new MacBook does not have Firewire, I'll be buying the previous model MacBook.
I disagree. I think Firewire 400 and 800 are dead. Firewire 3200 is ready, is backward compatible, and has the exact same connector as FW800.
Why not just put the next-gen standard on right now across the line?
Apple has the tech in-house. Maybe Apple has a surprise for us in the next two hours.
You think that Apple is going to put FW 3200 into a laptop when it's net yet available on the MacPro?
You think that Apple is going to put FW 3200 into a laptop when it's net yet available on the MacPro?
Everyone knows the Mac Pro is coming soon, so that's not a huge issue.
And the economies of scale involved in putting it on the MacBook will help get peripheral makers onboard faster.
What exactly is obvious about it? What facts do have to support that?
For at least another 19 minutes, that is conjecture.
For at least another 19 minutes, that is conjecture.
Yeah, you keep believing that if you want. It's possible that Apple will keep an old plastic MacBook at the bottom end and not update the 17" yet, but none of the new aluminium MacBooks (13" & 15") will have a dedicated FireWire 400 port.
Mac pro
http://images.apple.com/nl/home/imag...ro20081014.jpg
Mac
http://images.apple.com/nl/home/imag...ok20081014.jpg
more info (in dutch) http://www.apple.com/nl/
Video: http://www.apple.com/nl/macbook/#designvideo
I've read through this entire thread, and not one person has yet answered my question:
WHAT IS THE NEW PROCEDURE FOR TRANSFERRING FILES FROM THE MACBOOK TO ANOTHER COMPUTER??
Until now, the only really efficient, quick and reliable way to do that was by connecting a FireWire cable and restarting while holding down the T key. USB doesn't work like that. So . . .
So how -- specifically -- are we supposed to transfer files from/to the new MacBook?
Thanks.
WHAT IS THE NEW PROCEDURE FOR TRANSFERRING FILES FROM THE MACBOOK TO ANOTHER COMPUTER??
USB2.0, 802.11n and 1000BASE-T are all great for transferring files. If you are actually referring to the Migration Assistant app, you can currently use WiFi since the MBA doesn't have FW, so I'm sure Apple will do the same thing for these MBs.
I just think Apple said "what would be more beneficial to a low end user so we can keep the price low", have to have only one of these A or B.
A. True Performance Video Chip?
B. Firewire?
And they decided A.
Low end users can have a laptop that will play games.
If you do video, you probably might just have the money for MBP.
Laters...
I disagree. I think Firewire 400 and 800 are dead. Firewire 3200 is ready, is backward compatible, and has the exact same connector as FW800.
With the paucity of existing FW devices, and Apple itself effectively deprecating FW, why would any vendor jump on the FW3200 bandwagon? Intel owns the USB standard and has effectively quashed FW on the PC side by ignoring it, while eSATA external disks are so much easier to find than FW ones despite its newness. A whole lot of people think of USB only in terms of peak bandwidth, while ignoring Firewire's superior sustained bandwidth, latency, timing, and the ability to chain devices. You can't beat that kind of ignorance. On a form-factor constrained design like a notebook, you'd think the ability to attach several devices with only 1 port, without an external hub, would make FW very popular. You would be wrong, apparently notebook designers prefer spending space and dollars on multiple USB ports. Firewire has made itself the repeat of Beta.
With the paucity of existing FW devices, and Apple itself effectively deprecating FW, why would any vendor jump on the FW3200 bandwagon? Intel owns the USB standard and has effectively quashed FW on the PC side by ignoring it, while eSATA external disks are so much easier to find than FW ones despite its newness. A whole lot of people think of USB only in terms of peak bandwidth, while ignoring Firewire's superior sustained bandwidth, latency, timing, and the ability to chain devices. You can't beat that kind of ignorance. On a form-factor constrained design like a notebook, you'd think the ability to attach several devices with only 1 port, without an external hub, would make FW very popular. You would be wrong, apparently notebook designers prefer spending space and dollars on multiple USB ports. Firewire has made itself the repeat of Beta.
I had no problem walking into Costco and buying a Half Terabyte Western Digital FW/USB drive for 104.99.
I had multiple options there as well but didn't want to spend $40 more for 750GB.
Though to answer your question. Vendors that use FW3.2Gbps will be the ones that must leverage the architectural benefits of FW. USB thusfar has been a connection that is decent on burst transfers but doesn't have the latency numbers to effectively deal with some times of data (audio namely)
USB 3.0 will support duplex read/write so latency should go down but it's still a host based connection meaning it needs that computer in the chain.
I fully agree with you. Apple's reticence in promoting Firewire has been egregious. I sit here and read posts where many of us are awaiting for that next major product that is a game changer but honestly I'm worried. Does Apple even have the desire necessary to create such a product?
Time will tell but today it seems like Apple is focused mainly on differentiation via software and like a sports player consumed with stats Apple is enjoying success like they've never seen on Wall Street and this could color their views on all products. Microsoft has entered and then vacated different technological areas once it became clear they wouldn't have a new billion dollar product line.
Apple appears to be heading down that same path.
WHAT IS THE NEW PROCEDURE FOR TRANSFERRING FILES FROM THE MACBOOK TO ANOTHER COMPUTER??
There is no new procedure; just the old cabled or wireless network ones. Or something Time Machine-based. This is why the loss of FW entailed such a rage in the Mac community.
Premature burial... Apple could have waited for USB3, but there is a number of schedule issues here. That's why, I believe, they removed it so early. Oh, moreover FW is now a pro feature (or so Apple makes us think).