In this age of massively mass production (cutting corners), I greatly value a company that is willing to go to these lengths. Craftsmanship and attention to detail are what sets apple apart. I don't truly believe in my heart that they are overtly interested in attracting the sub-$1000 notebook crowd.
Regarding the amount of aluminum lost during milling...it's aluminum! One would think they'd have set up shop to reclaim most of that and return it to the process. I'd be interested in knowing if that's not feasible or possible.
You are absolutely right that they are not interested in the sub-$1000 notebook crowd. That is evident. But the problem is that if they want to do what is right for the people who own their stock, they have to make smart business decisions, and this is probably the worst business decision that they could possibly have made.
The aluminum is certainly recoverable and that is certainly the norm with this sort of thing, but that doesn't have much at all to do with the cost. Aluminum is exceedingly cheap. The cost is due to the need to have very expensive machinery, which equates to a very high cost per operational hour, dedicated to making these things.
In the presentation, they acted as though this was a brilliant idea on their part, as though they had a revelation of some sort in using this method. That is just plain old spinning the facts. It is plainly obvious to anyone who has ever observed these sorts of machines in operation that you could do just about anything with them, to include manufacturing the chassis for notebook computers. The reason that no one else has done this is quite simply that no one else is stupid enough to ignore the consideration of cost. Jobs and company clearly tried to divert the focus away from that and to give the impression that the reason that no other company has done this to this point is that it just didn't occur to anyone else to do it. That is preposterous, and it amounts to a boldface lie.
Kaiser, you'd better take your dollars and your spluttering anger and vote elsewhere - buy a Vaio and start your own blog to rant away in. Time and time again over the years people have questioned Jobs' and Apple's pricing policies - me included - and for the most part - while we're always thinking in terms of our own pockets, Jobs is thinking in terms of long-term customer and shareholder benefit. He's been right and we've been wrong. At this stage, economic turmoil or not, I think he'll most likely be right again.
When no one else will listen to a person face-to-face, his last recourse is a site like this. When someone is unsuccessful in almost everything else he does, his last recourse is a site like this. When someone's meds finally fail to achieve the desired results anymore, his last recourse is a site like this.
Eh, kaiser soze? (Interesting nom-de-net, ks: a character from "The Usual Suspects" in which an inveterate liar and criminal manages to pull the wool over everyone's eyes with his dissimulation. Sounds appropriate, given the positions you've taken here. Should we lend credence to one word you've said? Doubtful. Just another fake-out, huh?)
Sure, you can make notebook computers this way, and sure, people are going to like it.
But what Apple needed to do, above all else, was lower the production cost of their computers, especially their notebook computers, to make them more competitive with other notebook computers that run Microsoft's OS.
Instead, THEY DID EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF THE ONE THING THAT ABOVE ALL ELSE, THEY NEEDED TO DO!!!!!!!!!
THIS DOES NOT MAKE A WHIT OF SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT IS A FIASCO OF INESTIMABLE MAGNITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT IN HEAVEN'S NAME WERE THEY THINKING?????????????
IT IS JOBS MENTAL HEALTH, NOT HIS PHYSICAL HEALTH, THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE QUESTIONING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS SHOULD BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
Chill Man, just like Lexus will never be as cheap as Honda. Honda will never be as good as Lexus.
kaiser_soze, it's not necessary to write entire sentences or entire paragraphs in full caps. It is the written equivalent of yelling, and doing that while questioning someone else's sanity makes you look like the crazy one. Even if your points are valid, it's hard to ignore the emotional content.
Damnit to hell, this method for mass production of notebook computers is utter insanity!!
It is one of the most absolutely ludicrous things that i've ever heard of!
If it weren't true, and someone told me that apple was going to try to remain competive in the notebook computer market by milling the cases out of billet aluminum, i would assume that it was a joke, because that is how utterly preposterous this is.
If his goal was to run the company completely into the ground, this is exactly the sort of thing that would promote that goal!
But if the goal is to compete in the notebook computer market and continue to take market share from wintel while not lowering margins, this is the worst imaginable thing that they could possibly have come up with!! It's absolutely insane!
There are no words to adequately convey just how utterly asinine this truely is. These people have completely lost their minds, and they should be removed from their positions and replaced by people who have a modicum of sense before they completely run Apple into the ground. I don't care how long Jobs has been running this company or how many smart decisions he has made. This insanity has got to be brought to an end.
Dude, Seriously. Go buy a Dell and install Leopard. There are people who will pay these money for such computers. Just like people buy expensive Houses, Cars, Boats and phones. If you don't understand the differences I feel bad for you.
This new process will pay off in years to come. No other computer can do this. NO ONE!
I have mixed feelings about this. As a stockholder, I really wish they'd done more to make a cheaper mac. The $999 macbook is good, I suppose (maybe cheaper, I never priced them), but is still a major purchase. I really didn't expect them to make a $600 netbook, though I wish they would think about it. The decisions to create this process and these high end notebooks was made before the market tanked, so I don't know how Apple would be expected to respond to that beyond pricing differences which would cut back on margins, and maybe they did that.
As an Apple fan I like what they just released. By creating this superstrong frame they've differentiated themselves and made computers that will probably last at least a year longer and have fewer failures. There'll be fewer parts and maybe after they optimize the process it can be equivalent or cheaper than the old way. At least if they have a bad run they can just melt down what they made, recalibrate the machine, and run it again without waiting for something new to be designed. One of the things that got me into macs was that they made high quality computers and didn't just do what everyone else was doing to make money (living quarter to quarter). No one else has the trackpad, the new display, or the frame. Plus they fixed the harddrive replacement issue.
I'm long on Apple and I think Steve is thinking long too. If they use cheap parts like many others they're just going to hurt their brand that took them years of innovation and work to build. It sucks that my stock will probably take a hit, but it's about to be Christmas, there's new Macbooks, which are the top sellers right now, iPhones are selling out and the bailout is under way, so maybe there's hope.
Will this new aluminium MacBook be any more tougher than the polycarbonate one? On paper should be, but we'll have to wait for some real-world tests, erm... accidents.
Indeed, there could be some ramifications from this new process that can't be seen at the moment. E.g., does an increased "fit and finish" lead to fewer overall returns? Both in the out-of-the-box and the reduced wear-and-tear experiences? Might there be an easier servicing of units that do need repair, thus saving labor (time) costs? Aluminum frames that don't meet QA standards, since they're of one material, can be recycled easier than composite frames that require disassembly first. I'm just throwing out possibilities might not be obvious at first, to explain the "insanity" that another poster mentioned.
Of course, we haven't even mentioned the concept of "brand", something which is worth billions to Apple and which is worth preserving, even if means taking a hit in the short term (Oppenheimer only warned of lower margins in the current quarter, so I'm assuming that the manufacturing process will ramp and scale appropriately).
Apple could choose not to build stores with expensive glass facades and glass staircases, nor install Genius bars with more expensive personnel (compared to phone bank operators). But they do, to create and solidify brand awareness with the consumer. Similarly, Apple "de-commoditizes" its products by distinguishing them from the rest of the PC pack (to wit, eschewing the use of Intel reference designs in this latest update).
How much is brand worth? Just look at the steady upticks in market share that Cook pointed out this morning. This redesign of the portables with the new process is part of the overall strategy of keeping Apple products distinctive and unique.
Who was it who recently pointed out that the iPhone is the only phone he could think of that didn't have the company's logo plastered on the front? Now *that* is brand!
The MacBooks are now *more* expensive. Aren't much lighter (half a pound less).
Perhaps they are stronger...but really...the process of carving the frame out of a block of aluminum is quite expensive.
More expensive Are you kidding The price has not changed but the quality and the speed has gotten better. That's what it's all about.
I bet you'll find that the cost to make the new frame is not much different than the all of the pieces of the old one. Remember on the old one you have many pieces to make, some which are also machined, and then put them together. With the new way you only have to add the final components onto the plate and I'll bet that's almost completely automated.
Some people fail to understand that a major reduction in the number of pieces a notebook case is made out of leads to a significant reduction in rework, scrap, and quality issues. Case flex is very very bad for lead-free solder joints. They are very brittle and hate movement.
The tighter a notebook feels, the better quality it will have. Any aluminum bits or damaged cases will be recycled into new housings eventually. No waste.
No where does it say this process is more expensive than the old way. I see easier assembly and an totally automated process. This means lower cost.
No plastic bits to break. No crappy edges. No thin housings that dent easily. This is a good thing. Way to go, Jobs. Now release the Aluminum billet iMac!
You know, I really, really do not like myself when I am overtly rude to a total stranger, but I find myself unable to avoid being overtly rude to you, because there is simply no way that any person who has any insight at all into the differences in cost of different manufacturing processes could believe what you represent yourself as believing. You have absolutely know idea what you are talking about. The part that is the end result of the machining of that billet of aluminum is the equivalent of a part that could otherwise be stamped out on a different sort of machine at a rate of about one per second. The cost of such a machine is probably less than one-tenth the cost of a CNC machine, and the production rate is probably at least ten times greater than the production rate that they are going to get with this process. It is quite simply ludicrous.
More expensive Are you kidding The price has not changed but the quality and the speed has gotten better. That's what it's all about.
I bet you'll find that the cost to make the new frame is not much different than the all of the pieces of the old one. Remember on the old one you have many pieces to make, some which are also machined, and then put them together. With the new way you only have to add the final components onto the plate and I'll bet that's almost completely automated.
This is most likely the process that caused Apple to say that it will reduce their margins, and I believe them here.
Hogging out 2lb of aluminum and a finish pass, drills, tapping on so much geometry has a cost. Milling out 80+ key holes vs. injection molding has an increased cost. No doubt that it saves parts and increases quality, but I am skeptical that it is a nearly even trade on cost.
kaiser_soze: Yes we get the point, stop posting the same rant over and over.
yeah.
Quote:
kaiser_soze, it's not necessary to write entire sentences or entire paragraphs in full caps. It is the written equivalent of yelling, and doing that while questioning someone else's sanity makes you look like the crazy one. Even if your points are valid, it's hard to ignore the emotional content.
Yup, kaiser go read about internet writing ethics. Sheesh.
Quote:
Dude, Seriously. Go buy a Dell and install Leopard. There are people who will pay these money for such computers. Just like people buy expensive Houses, Cars, Boats and phones. If you don't understand the differences I feel bad for you.
True
Honestly, as some might say what Apple do is bad think about it, Apple is the only one in the market manufacturing their notebooks from a solid block of aluminum and the glass screen will certainly appeal to most public users. We know why we don't like glossy display but the public? They don't really care they prefer to have a good looking piece of notebook.
And when they hear about the new manufacturing process and glass display and proper GPU, they will likely jump and buy a new MB, this will give Apple an advantage, because people are WILLING to pay extra for those qualities and looks.
Oh yea, and what Apple did today will calm down and shut up Apple fanboys and MS fanboys which one party say Apple is now producing cheap quality products and MS fanboys who says that you pay extra for a computer with PC internals.
Your the one that doesn't get it. This manufacturing process will likely reduce costs.
Besides, Apple has had no problem increasing market share with the laptops at the price they are and with all the features. Even the PC magazines say they are the best and fastest PCs to run Vista, which is totally ironic, considering they're sold to run MacOS.
Leonard, you are obviously clueless, and as such, you really should not bother to share your naive opinions with other people. Please go find yourself an engineer who has experience and knowledge with cost accounting for fabrication processes. Someone in the aerospace industry would be a good place to look. Talk to some of them, and ask them to explain to you some of the factors that determine the difference in fabrication cost for different processes.
But you don't really have to do that, because it should be apparent to you and to anyone else who has half a brain, that the notebook computers made by manufacturers who have not chosen to apply this process to the production of their notebook computers cost about half what these Apple computers cost.
This simply the most unbelievably stupid decision that Apple could have made. If you don't understand that, it is only because you understand very little.
... Jobs ... has obviously gone insane. ... bad smell ... lost their minds. ... THEY HAVE LOST THEIR MINDS!!! IN ORDER FOR APPLE'S STOCK TO APPRECIATE IN VALUE, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY T... IMMEDIATELY!
I think it's fairly clear that the one that has "lost their mind," is the one screaming at a bunch of anonymous users on an Internet forum.
You should change your moniker to "Chicken Little."
Kaiser, seriously -- not everyone has bought stocks in Apple. Couple that with the fact that this economic problem is not going to last forever and Apple is going to sell lots of computers no matter how many times you demand Job's resignation and quite frankly, you just come across as annoying.
I'm finally going to update my computer from 2004. Many people are. And for all the money savers out there, you've got the sub-1000 notebook also available. Apple is catering to everyone and also progressing technology forward. Quit with your doomsday talks, just because you've got some Apple stock. If you haven't noticed, all stocks have plummetted. All of them.
What gives you the right to decide who is and who is not annoying? And why should I care whether you or anyone else here cares whether I am annoying? The vast majority of the posts that people make on this and other forums is just noise, having no factual basis or value. Whether the economic problem lasts another week or another year or another decade has nothing to do with anything. You assume way to much. I am talking about a very specific problem, and you have concluded, erroneously and without factual basis or logical reasoning, that my concerns are particularly related to to the present situation with the overal economy and with the decline of Apple stock. That simply is not rational, and if you think otherwise, then you simply have never taught yourself to think. I made no mention of those other concerns, and nothing that I wrote was in any way predicated on the existance of those concerns. The concerns with the production cost of the Apple notebook computers is fully valid on its own merit. Since you evidently have enough money to buy any computer that you like, perhaps you have enough money to go buy yourself a clue. Even if I owned only a single share of Apple stock, that would give me every right to raise awareness on this concern, not matter how much it might annoy you.
The part that is the end result of the machining of that billet of aluminum is the equivalent of a part that could otherwise be stamped out on a different sort of machine at a rate of about one per second.
Part of what you don't seem to be taking into account is that while the old outer casing might have been stamped out at one per second, all of those multiple separate structural parts had to be stamped out as well, probably dealt with in multiple steps and then assembled and attached to each other.
I would be willing to bet that new process is much more efficient on may levels and is probably highly automated.
Kaiser, you'd better take your dollars and your spluttering anger and vote elsewhere - buy a Vaio and start your own blog to rant away in. Time and time again over the years people have questioned Jobs' and Apple's pricing policies - me included - and for the most part - while we're always thinking in terms of our own pockets, Jobs is thinking in terms of long-term customer and shareholder benefit. He's been right and we've been wrong. At this stage, economic turmoil or not, I think he'll most likely be right again.
I'll take my dollars and my anger anywhere I please, thank you very much. What Jobs might have done right and wrong in the past is irrelevant. The facts are this. Notebook computers have fallen in price dramatically over the past several years, and Apple notebooks have not fallen in line. No one with half a brain could deny that this is a problem for Apple's long-term prospects. Yet, instead of finding ways to lower the production cost, they adopted a production method that substantially increased their production costs.
When no one else will listen to a person face-to-face, his last recourse is a site like this. When someone is unsuccessful in almost everything else he does, his last recourse is a site like this. When someone's meds finally fail to achieve the desired results anymore, his last recourse is a site like this.
Eh, kaiser soze? (Interesting nom-de-net, ks: a character from "The Usual Suspects" in which an inveterate liar and criminal manages to pull the wool over everyone's eyes with his dissimulation. Sounds appropriate, given the positions you've taken here. Should we lend credence to one word you've said? Doubtful. Just another fake-out, huh?)
VintaBoy, whereas most of the other people who have challenged my comments here without offering a semblence of intelligent rebuttal, you are merely a jackass.
Dude, Seriously. Go buy a Dell and install Leopard. There are people who will pay these money for such computers. Just like people buy expensive Houses, Cars, Boats and phones. If you don't understand the differences I feel bad for you.
This new process will pay off in years to come. No other computer can do this. NO ONE!
My buying a Dell and installing Leopard is not going to have any impact on what it costs Apple to make their notebook computers.
The new process will not pay off in years to come. The process has a high per-unit manufacturing cost, due to the high cost of the machines and the time that each machine spends producing one unit. Those costs will likely come down by some amount over time, but this technology has been around for several decades, and there is not going to be any drastic reduction in per-unit cost at any time.
Comments
In this age of massively mass production (cutting corners), I greatly value a company that is willing to go to these lengths. Craftsmanship and attention to detail are what sets apple apart. I don't truly believe in my heart that they are overtly interested in attracting the sub-$1000 notebook crowd.
Regarding the amount of aluminum lost during milling...it's aluminum! One would think they'd have set up shop to reclaim most of that and return it to the process. I'd be interested in knowing if that's not feasible or possible.
You are absolutely right that they are not interested in the sub-$1000 notebook crowd. That is evident. But the problem is that if they want to do what is right for the people who own their stock, they have to make smart business decisions, and this is probably the worst business decision that they could possibly have made.
The aluminum is certainly recoverable and that is certainly the norm with this sort of thing, but that doesn't have much at all to do with the cost. Aluminum is exceedingly cheap. The cost is due to the need to have very expensive machinery, which equates to a very high cost per operational hour, dedicated to making these things.
In the presentation, they acted as though this was a brilliant idea on their part, as though they had a revelation of some sort in using this method. That is just plain old spinning the facts. It is plainly obvious to anyone who has ever observed these sorts of machines in operation that you could do just about anything with them, to include manufacturing the chassis for notebook computers. The reason that no one else has done this is quite simply that no one else is stupid enough to ignore the consideration of cost. Jobs and company clearly tried to divert the focus away from that and to give the impression that the reason that no other company has done this to this point is that it just didn't occur to anyone else to do it. That is preposterous, and it amounts to a boldface lie.
Eh, kaiser soze? (Interesting nom-de-net, ks: a character from "The Usual Suspects" in which an inveterate liar and criminal manages to pull the wool over everyone's eyes with his dissimulation. Sounds appropriate, given the positions you've taken here. Should we lend credence to one word you've said? Doubtful. Just another fake-out, huh?)
Sure, you can make notebook computers this way, and sure, people are going to like it.
But what Apple needed to do, above all else, was lower the production cost of their computers, especially their notebook computers, to make them more competitive with other notebook computers that run Microsoft's OS.
Instead, THEY DID EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF THE ONE THING THAT ABOVE ALL ELSE, THEY NEEDED TO DO!!!!!!!!!
THIS DOES NOT MAKE A WHIT OF SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT IS A FIASCO OF INESTIMABLE MAGNITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT IN HEAVEN'S NAME WERE THEY THINKING?????????????
IT IS JOBS MENTAL HEALTH, NOT HIS PHYSICAL HEALTH, THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE QUESTIONING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS SHOULD BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
Chill Man, just like Lexus will never be as cheap as Honda. Honda will never be as good as Lexus.
Damnit to hell, this method for mass production of notebook computers is utter insanity!!
It is one of the most absolutely ludicrous things that i've ever heard of!
If it weren't true, and someone told me that apple was going to try to remain competive in the notebook computer market by milling the cases out of billet aluminum, i would assume that it was a joke, because that is how utterly preposterous this is.
If his goal was to run the company completely into the ground, this is exactly the sort of thing that would promote that goal!
But if the goal is to compete in the notebook computer market and continue to take market share from wintel while not lowering margins, this is the worst imaginable thing that they could possibly have come up with!! It's absolutely insane!
There are no words to adequately convey just how utterly asinine this truely is. These people have completely lost their minds, and they should be removed from their positions and replaced by people who have a modicum of sense before they completely run Apple into the ground. I don't care how long Jobs has been running this company or how many smart decisions he has made. This insanity has got to be brought to an end.
Dude, Seriously. Go buy a Dell and install Leopard. There are people who will pay these money for such computers. Just like people buy expensive Houses, Cars, Boats and phones. If you don't understand the differences I feel bad for you.
This new process will pay off in years to come. No other computer can do this. NO ONE!
As an Apple fan I like what they just released. By creating this superstrong frame they've differentiated themselves and made computers that will probably last at least a year longer and have fewer failures. There'll be fewer parts and maybe after they optimize the process it can be equivalent or cheaper than the old way. At least if they have a bad run they can just melt down what they made, recalibrate the machine, and run it again without waiting for something new to be designed. One of the things that got me into macs was that they made high quality computers and didn't just do what everyone else was doing to make money (living quarter to quarter). No one else has the trackpad, the new display, or the frame. Plus they fixed the harddrive replacement issue.
I'm long on Apple and I think Steve is thinking long too. If they use cheap parts like many others they're just going to hurt their brand that took them years of innovation and work to build. It sucks that my stock will probably take a hit, but it's about to be Christmas, there's new Macbooks, which are the top sellers right now, iPhones are selling out and the bailout is under way, so maybe there's hope.
Will this new aluminium MacBook be any more tougher than the polycarbonate one? On paper should be, but we'll have to wait for some real-world tests, erm... accidents.
Indeed, there could be some ramifications from this new process that can't be seen at the moment. E.g., does an increased "fit and finish" lead to fewer overall returns? Both in the out-of-the-box and the reduced wear-and-tear experiences? Might there be an easier servicing of units that do need repair, thus saving labor (time) costs? Aluminum frames that don't meet QA standards, since they're of one material, can be recycled easier than composite frames that require disassembly first. I'm just throwing out possibilities might not be obvious at first, to explain the "insanity" that another poster mentioned.
Of course, we haven't even mentioned the concept of "brand", something which is worth billions to Apple and which is worth preserving, even if means taking a hit in the short term (Oppenheimer only warned of lower margins in the current quarter, so I'm assuming that the manufacturing process will ramp and scale appropriately).
Apple could choose not to build stores with expensive glass facades and glass staircases, nor install Genius bars with more expensive personnel (compared to phone bank operators). But they do, to create and solidify brand awareness with the consumer. Similarly, Apple "de-commoditizes" its products by distinguishing them from the rest of the PC pack (to wit, eschewing the use of Intel reference designs in this latest update).
How much is brand worth? Just look at the steady upticks in market share that Cook pointed out this morning. This redesign of the portables with the new process is part of the overall strategy of keeping Apple products distinctive and unique.
Who was it who recently pointed out that the iPhone is the only phone he could think of that didn't have the company's logo plastered on the front? Now *that* is brand!
I totally agree.
The MacBooks are now *more* expensive. Aren't much lighter (half a pound less).
Perhaps they are stronger...but really...the process of carving the frame out of a block of aluminum is quite expensive.
More expensive
I bet you'll find that the cost to make the new frame is not much different than the all of the pieces of the old one. Remember on the old one you have many pieces to make, some which are also machined, and then put them together. With the new way you only have to add the final components onto the plate and I'll bet that's almost completely automated.
Some people fail to understand that a major reduction in the number of pieces a notebook case is made out of leads to a significant reduction in rework, scrap, and quality issues. Case flex is very very bad for lead-free solder joints. They are very brittle and hate movement.
The tighter a notebook feels, the better quality it will have. Any aluminum bits or damaged cases will be recycled into new housings eventually. No waste.
No where does it say this process is more expensive than the old way. I see easier assembly and an totally automated process. This means lower cost.
No plastic bits to break. No crappy edges. No thin housings that dent easily. This is a good thing. Way to go, Jobs. Now release the Aluminum billet iMac!
You know, I really, really do not like myself when I am overtly rude to a total stranger, but I find myself unable to avoid being overtly rude to you, because there is simply no way that any person who has any insight at all into the differences in cost of different manufacturing processes could believe what you represent yourself as believing. You have absolutely know idea what you are talking about. The part that is the end result of the machining of that billet of aluminum is the equivalent of a part that could otherwise be stamped out on a different sort of machine at a rate of about one per second. The cost of such a machine is probably less than one-tenth the cost of a CNC machine, and the production rate is probably at least ten times greater than the production rate that they are going to get with this process. It is quite simply ludicrous.
More expensive
I bet you'll find that the cost to make the new frame is not much different than the all of the pieces of the old one. Remember on the old one you have many pieces to make, some which are also machined, and then put them together. With the new way you only have to add the final components onto the plate and I'll bet that's almost completely automated.
This is most likely the process that caused Apple to say that it will reduce their margins, and I believe them here.
Hogging out 2lb of aluminum and a finish pass, drills, tapping on so much geometry has a cost. Milling out 80+ key holes vs. injection molding has an increased cost. No doubt that it saves parts and increases quality, but I am skeptical that it is a nearly even trade on cost.
kaiser_soze: Yes we get the point, stop posting the same rant over and over.
yeah.
kaiser_soze, it's not necessary to write entire sentences or entire paragraphs in full caps. It is the written equivalent of yelling, and doing that while questioning someone else's sanity makes you look like the crazy one. Even if your points are valid, it's hard to ignore the emotional content.
Yup, kaiser go read about internet writing ethics. Sheesh.
Dude, Seriously. Go buy a Dell and install Leopard. There are people who will pay these money for such computers. Just like people buy expensive Houses, Cars, Boats and phones. If you don't understand the differences I feel bad for you.
True
Honestly, as some might say what Apple do is bad think about it, Apple is the only one in the market manufacturing their notebooks from a solid block of aluminum and the glass screen will certainly appeal to most public users. We know why we don't like glossy display but the public? They don't really care they prefer to have a good looking piece of notebook.
And when they hear about the new manufacturing process and glass display and proper GPU, they will likely jump and buy a new MB, this will give Apple an advantage, because people are WILLING to pay extra for those qualities and looks.
Oh yea, and what Apple did today will calm down and shut up Apple fanboys and MS fanboys which one party say Apple is now producing cheap quality products and MS fanboys who says that you pay extra for a computer with PC internals.
Your the one that doesn't get it. This manufacturing process will likely reduce costs.
Besides, Apple has had no problem increasing market share with the laptops at the price they are and with all the features. Even the PC magazines say they are the best and fastest PCs to run Vista, which is totally ironic, considering they're sold to run MacOS.
Leonard, you are obviously clueless, and as such, you really should not bother to share your naive opinions with other people. Please go find yourself an engineer who has experience and knowledge with cost accounting for fabrication processes. Someone in the aerospace industry would be a good place to look. Talk to some of them, and ask them to explain to you some of the factors that determine the difference in fabrication cost for different processes.
But you don't really have to do that, because it should be apparent to you and to anyone else who has half a brain, that the notebook computers made by manufacturers who have not chosen to apply this process to the production of their notebook computers cost about half what these Apple computers cost.
This simply the most unbelievably stupid decision that Apple could have made. If you don't understand that, it is only because you understand very little.
... Jobs ... has obviously gone insane. ... bad smell ... lost their minds. ... THEY HAVE LOST THEIR MINDS!!! IN ORDER FOR APPLE'S STOCK TO APPRECIATE IN VALUE, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY T... IMMEDIATELY!
I think it's fairly clear that the one that has "lost their mind," is the one screaming at a bunch of anonymous users on an Internet forum.
You should change your moniker to "Chicken Little."
Kaiser, seriously -- not everyone has bought stocks in Apple. Couple that with the fact that this economic problem is not going to last forever and Apple is going to sell lots of computers no matter how many times you demand Job's resignation and quite frankly, you just come across as annoying.
I'm finally going to update my computer from 2004. Many people are. And for all the money savers out there, you've got the sub-1000 notebook also available. Apple is catering to everyone and also progressing technology forward. Quit with your doomsday talks, just because you've got some Apple stock. If you haven't noticed, all stocks have plummetted. All of them.
What gives you the right to decide who is and who is not annoying? And why should I care whether you or anyone else here cares whether I am annoying? The vast majority of the posts that people make on this and other forums is just noise, having no factual basis or value. Whether the economic problem lasts another week or another year or another decade has nothing to do with anything. You assume way to much. I am talking about a very specific problem, and you have concluded, erroneously and without factual basis or logical reasoning, that my concerns are particularly related to to the present situation with the overal economy and with the decline of Apple stock. That simply is not rational, and if you think otherwise, then you simply have never taught yourself to think. I made no mention of those other concerns, and nothing that I wrote was in any way predicated on the existance of those concerns. The concerns with the production cost of the Apple notebook computers is fully valid on its own merit. Since you evidently have enough money to buy any computer that you like, perhaps you have enough money to go buy yourself a clue. Even if I owned only a single share of Apple stock, that would give me every right to raise awareness on this concern, not matter how much it might annoy you.
The part that is the end result of the machining of that billet of aluminum is the equivalent of a part that could otherwise be stamped out on a different sort of machine at a rate of about one per second.
Part of what you don't seem to be taking into account is that while the old outer casing might have been stamped out at one per second, all of those multiple separate structural parts had to be stamped out as well, probably dealt with in multiple steps and then assembled and attached to each other.
I would be willing to bet that new process is much more efficient on may levels and is probably highly automated.
Again, none of the machined aluminum is wasted.
Kaiser, you'd better take your dollars and your spluttering anger and vote elsewhere - buy a Vaio and start your own blog to rant away in. Time and time again over the years people have questioned Jobs' and Apple's pricing policies - me included - and for the most part - while we're always thinking in terms of our own pockets, Jobs is thinking in terms of long-term customer and shareholder benefit. He's been right and we've been wrong. At this stage, economic turmoil or not, I think he'll most likely be right again.
I'll take my dollars and my anger anywhere I please, thank you very much. What Jobs might have done right and wrong in the past is irrelevant. The facts are this. Notebook computers have fallen in price dramatically over the past several years, and Apple notebooks have not fallen in line. No one with half a brain could deny that this is a problem for Apple's long-term prospects. Yet, instead of finding ways to lower the production cost, they adopted a production method that substantially increased their production costs.
When no one else will listen to a person face-to-face, his last recourse is a site like this. When someone is unsuccessful in almost everything else he does, his last recourse is a site like this. When someone's meds finally fail to achieve the desired results anymore, his last recourse is a site like this.
Eh, kaiser soze? (Interesting nom-de-net, ks: a character from "The Usual Suspects" in which an inveterate liar and criminal manages to pull the wool over everyone's eyes with his dissimulation. Sounds appropriate, given the positions you've taken here. Should we lend credence to one word you've said? Doubtful. Just another fake-out, huh?)
VintaBoy, whereas most of the other people who have challenged my comments here without offering a semblence of intelligent rebuttal, you are merely a jackass.
Dude, Seriously. Go buy a Dell and install Leopard. There are people who will pay these money for such computers. Just like people buy expensive Houses, Cars, Boats and phones. If you don't understand the differences I feel bad for you.
This new process will pay off in years to come. No other computer can do this. NO ONE!
My buying a Dell and installing Leopard is not going to have any impact on what it costs Apple to make their notebook computers.
The new process will not pay off in years to come. The process has a high per-unit manufacturing cost, due to the high cost of the machines and the time that each machine spends producing one unit. Those costs will likely come down by some amount over time, but this technology has been around for several decades, and there is not going to be any drastic reduction in per-unit cost at any time.