My 5 year old TiBook is getting to the point that I need to consider replacing it. At work I need to have the ability to move around. These new MacBook Pro's are now what I consider a step up and they look nice.
This weekend I will be down at the Apple store to examine the new MacBook Pro, most likely I WILL be walking out with a new computer. I personally like what I have seen so far, it is impressive.
Apple has never followed the crowd and I like that. They have followed what is best for Apple. So what if the process is more expensive, what is nice is the speed bumps in the products and in the world I work in a rugged computer is a blessing.
Most of the guys I work with have Dells and end up getting a new one every two years. I have gone double and some more on my Apple. For me that is actually saving money.
THEY HAVE LOST THEIR MINDS!!! IN ORDER FOR APPLE'S STOCK TO APPRECIATE IN VALUE, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY THAT THEY START MANUFACTURING AND SELLING NOTEBOOK COMPUTERS WHERE THE PRODUCTION COSTS HAVE BE REDUCED, NOT INCREASED! WHAT APPLE HAS DONE HERE, SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK FOR APPLE! PEOPLE WHO HAVE PURCHASED STOCK IN APPLE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DEMAND THAT APPLE MAKE DECISIONS THAT ARE ORIENTED TOWARD INCREASING MARKET SHARE AND INCREASING PROFIT, SO THAT THE VALUE OF THE STOCK WILL INCREASE! IT IS THE RIGHT OF STOCKHOLDERS TO DEMAND THIS, AND MOST CEO's UNDERSTAND THIS AND TAKE IT FOR GRANTED. INCREDIBLY AS IT SEEMS, JOBS EVIDENTLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THIS, AND THAT IS WHY HE SHOULD BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY!
Herr, Soze.
Obviously there is no need to shout. We can read what you've written regardless of the case of letters chosen.
In response to your, er, soapbox statement, I appreciate your perspective, but while the high-tech industry is one of the fastest growing and most nimble industries, it can't turn on a dime. Indeed, if GM, Ford and Chrysler were as nimble as Apple, they would have products consumers want right now.
If Apple wanted to gain market share by virtue of quantity, they would quit the hardware business and license OSX to Dell, HP and other manufacturers. But I don't think this is the philosophy of the company. What makes Apple an Apple, is their innovative use of technology, award winning product design, quality of service, etc.
In other words, Apple (aka Jobs) has decided to go for quality vs quantity. Indeed, it's like comparing a Ford Focus to a BMW Mini. The Ford is practical and reliable, but it's nothing special compared to the Mini, which is smaller, more expensive and yet for some, more desirable... It has exclusivity.
I too have had a long-term look at the financial profile of Apple and at the end of the day, they have a solid growth rate. Will it continue at the double digit rate in the past, probably not. But I'd rather they move forward at a single digit rate, in this economy, rather than the truly downward slope (spiral?) of the likes of Dell.
Now, don't get me wrong, there are a few omissions on the latest notebook products that I think they're going to regret. For example, no matte screen option on the new MBP and no FireWire port on the new MB. Having said that, overall, I think the new products are moving in the right direction in terms of innovation. Especially the possibilities of using the two GPUs and OpenCL on the new MBP, which I hope will be an architecture adapted to the next refresh of the iMac.
In conclusion, I think Jobs and the Apple board do understand what the stock holders want (i.e. market share and profit), but there are other ways to reach these goals. After all, there are those in the financial market who went for the short, quick, quantitative profit vs those institutions that stayed with prudent fiscal policy, with slow but progressive growth... I don't have to point out who's still standing these days.
You know you've been incredibly rude to everyone on this thread and ranted and raved for a while now, but it's worth noting that you haven't actually backed up a single thing you've said, and you've really only said one thing over and over again. This is it here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser_soze
... instead of finding ways to lower the production cost, they adopted a production method that substantially increased their production costs.
While on the face of it this seems like an obvious statement, I'm sure you would agree (if you actually do know anything about this stuff), that the cost of production includes many different factors and the base level cost of machining a single part (out of hundreds) is only one of those. There are also costs of assembly, shipping, and a bunch of other factors.
If you want to keep ranting about this, how about coming up with an argument, or some facts and figures as to how this one single change to the rather complicated fabrication, production and delivery of a MacBook is "certainly" going to sink them or even significantly inflate production costs?
I was all set to make some great counter arguments to your rant, when I realised that you haven't actually made an argument at all. You've just screamed and screamed about how the world is ending, Apple is doomed, etc.
So go ahead, make an actual argument for cripes sake. And please include costs of shipping, assembly and all the costs of producing all the various bits. Maybe a couple of spreadsheets to show the difference in all areas between the previous production methods and the current.
If you can't do that (possibly because like most of us you ARE NOT ACTUALLY PRIVY TO THE DETAILS), then please shut up.
This is terribly simple. Some of you don't get it, and Jobs obviously does not get it, but he has obviously gone insane. So let me spell it out to you in black and white:
1. The investment community has factored into the price for Apple's stock, the assumption that Apple will continue to gain market share.
Oh my. Sounds like the pot is calling the kettle black.
Criticizing Apple's price point is an old tune. The iPod wasn't the cheapest option when it was released. In fact, it was lambasted in a very similar way. And yet, Apple sold a couple. The same can be said for most of Apple's products, including the iPhone. And again, I think they've sold at least a couple.
If Steve Jobs, Jonathan Ives and the hordes at Apple are insane, then so am I. I may not get it, but I'll buy it, because I'll pay more to buy more. As for the investment communities' demands, well, current situation considered, I think I'll ignore their brilliant insights for the time being.
Steve and company gave new strength to Apple by truly thinking different. They don't run with the crowd, even when it's a rambunctious group that's obsessed with capitalization and stock prices. And thank goodness, because otherwise, that Apple store that I'm buying my new unibody Macbook from, wouldn't be there.
Have a little faith, be a long-term investor and quit screaming fire when there isn't one. Sweep off those chip crumbs, wipe the froth off your mouth, shower and head down to your nearest Apple store. Just look and see for yourself. The insanity, it's spreading.
Leonard, you are obviously clueless, and as such, you really should not bother to share your naive opinions with other people. Please go find yourself an engineer who has experience and knowledge with cost accounting for fabrication processes. Someone in the aerospace industry would be a good place to look. Talk to some of them, and ask them to explain to you some of the factors that determine the difference in fabrication cost for different processes.
But you don't really have to do that, because it should be apparent to you and to anyone else who has half a brain, that the notebook computers made by manufacturers who have not chosen to apply this process to the production of their notebook computers cost about half what these Apple computers cost.
This simply the most unbelievably stupid decision that Apple could have made. If you don't understand that, it is only because you understand very little.
OK I'll bite the troll
you work in the aerospace industry, what as?
engineer ?
chief scream monger?
what are you doing wasting your time here, clearly none of us that disagree with you are worthy of spending time in your "presence"
but then you forget yourself and burden us with your ranting anyway.
you forget that you dont run Apple
you forget that your not employed by Apple {fank thuck}
you forget that Apple can do whatever the hell they want to make the most desirable looking gear in whatever industry they want.
you forget that they havent sold the stocks and they havent given the money back to the shareholders.
--
seriously, where the hell is Mel? We need to set Mel on this guy
Is Apple milling these enclosure themselves or is that outsourced like all of their manufacturing? It would have been neat if they brought back some of their manufacturing in-house.
Yes, it's about half a pound (~225g) lighter compared to the now still available 13" white polycarbonate MacBook.
In other economic times, the importance of this technology would be better appreciated. Unfortunately, price and "value for money" (i.e. features) rule the roost now.
Still, from an engineering stand-point, it is impressive. Not sure if it's revolutionary if Apple's hyperbole is to be believed. The manufacturing techniques are well known and applied to other military grade components (e.g. avionics modules on fighter aircraft) for years, but not necessarily a "consumer grade" notebook computer.
Will this new aluminium MacBook be any more tougher than the polycarbonate one? On paper should be, but we'll have to wait for some real-world tests, erm... accidents.
-YipYipYipee
I used to work in the office furniture industry and we did this exact same manufacturing process (for well over 8 years) for many different desk and file cabinet parts. It's definitely not revolutionary in even the tiniest definition of the term, maybe new(er) to the computer industry, but nowhere near revolutionary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad
Dude, Seriously. Go buy a Dell and install Leopard. There are people who will pay these money for such computers. Just like people buy expensive Houses, Cars, Boats and phones. If you don't understand the differences I feel bad for you.
This new process will pay off in years to come. No other computer can do this. NO ONE!
1. I know this wasn't directed at me since I didn't post in this thread yet, but I am typing this from my Dell Mini netbook running Leopard.
2. Any company could do it if they wanted to, ANY, Apple just happens to be the company that did do it.
Honestly, I have not read one single person who is happy about the new notebooks out of the thousands of posts I've read today over several message boards. It seems like Apple seriously fudged up on SEVERAL different fronts with these new notebooks.
BUT, honestly the aluminum cases are for sure the one thing they did right. They are ridiculously sturdy, look stupid nice, scratch much less than plastic or paint, and just look piff.
There are tons of different things to complain about on virtually every area of these new notebooks, but the casing is NOT one of them.
EDIT: There is atleast 1 person(s) that is going to be extremely happy at this whole fiasco. Microsoft.
Honestly, I have not read one single person who is happy about the new notebooks out of the thousands of posts I've read today over several message boards. It seems like Apple seriously fudged up on SEVERAL different fronts with these new notebooks.
BUT, honestly the aluminum cases are for sure the one thing they did right. They are ridiculously sturdy, look stupid nice, scratch much less than plastic or paint, and just look piff.
I would not at all in any case use the fickled people in the interweb to gauge the wider consumer market.
You are absolutely right that they are not interested in the sub-$1000 notebook crowd. That is evident. But the problem is that if they want to do what is right for the people who own their stock, they have to make smart business decisions, and this is probably the worst business decision that they could possibly have made.
Perhaps part of the reason we are in the current economic mess we are in is because companies paid too much attention to their stock price (sometime managing the businesses as nothing more than a stock manipulation scheme) and not enough attention to their business and their customers (note: despite what many people think, stockholders are not customers). Too many business (and too many individuals for that matter) are run on credit, borrowed money which these days is hard to come by, all in the pursuit of low-cost and market share.
If you don't like the way they build computers, don't buy them. If you don't like the way they run the company, don't by stock. Personally, I think it's a bit silly to build computers this way. But they have $20 billion in the bank, no corporate debt, and a 10% market share in the US (vs 2-3% a couple of years ago). I'm not going to argue with that.
I find the new design and manufacturing process absolutely impressive. I know the tech is decades old, but no one has used it for notebooks before. It kinda sucks that low end model wasn't updated this time around, but I'm sure that we'll see a $999 model of the new design in 6 months or so.
Also, many of those notebooks that you find in the $600 range are using celrons and have 1GB of RAM. Not exactly a fair comparison, especially when the new Macboks are packing Nvidia's graphics.
I would not at all in any case use the fickled people in the interweb to gauge the wider consumer market.
Indeed. Every time I see an angry crowd after an Apple keynote I think of Henry Ford quote "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for a better horse.".
This company did succeed to increase their revenue and their market share over the years when these same people were yelling and screaming. One may know if this manufacturing process is more expensive or cheaper than the old one, which is totally irrelevant unless one knows how much the new look will effect the sales of the computers. Apple always designed nice looking gadgets, that's their "thing" if you like. And they will always go into the lengths to make their products "look" better beyond everything else. That policy will and has annoyed many people who demanded more expandability or configurability but it's quite obvious that for the majority of its consumers, it's working as more and more people switch to Apple. You cannot blame them for putting design before function/price. And you shouldn't be stupid enough to act like you actually know more than a multibillion dollar company CEO about which manufacturing process he's gonna choose for his next lineup. That goes for Kaiser Soze obviously.
Still, from an engineering stand-point, it is impressive. Not sure if it's revolutionary if Apple's hyperbole is to be believed. The manufacturing techniques are well known and applied to other military grade components (e.g. avionics modules on fighter aircraft) for years, but not necessarily a "consumer grade" notebook computer.
Many of the car's engine blocks are manufactured using digital milling machines too. I took the BMW manufacture tour in Munich Germany back in 1991, and they had a farm of milling machines to mill their engine blocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by codachrome
Regarding the amount of aluminum lost during milling...it's aluminum! One would think they'd have set up shop to reclaim most of that and return it to the process. I'd be interested in knowing if that's not feasible or possible.
Yeah it is definitely recyclable, but it has to be dried, shipped, and re-melted. Which wastes energy and some resources.
So what if this case costs $50 more or so to build than a plastic injection molded case?
Apple does sell their computers for more than the competition and if they want to charge a premium they should deliver a better product. I, for example, do care a lot more about the build quality, the materials and the design than about notebook performance (CPU, GPU, memory, HDD...) because for my use, anything that is built in 2008 is plenty fast (but lots of notebooks look garish and are flimsy crap).
There are plenty of premium products in the marketplace where the manufacturer didn't choose the cheapest (or an economically good) process. This creates, or cements, an image of high quality and this will translate in sales.
I would not at all in any case use the fickled people in the interweb to gauge the wider consumer market.
Trust me your singing to the choir. It takes ALOT of confirmation and re-confirmation for me to believe anything. I don't believe hardly anything I read and only half of what I see.
The moon landing, US history books, plane hitting the Pentagon. Pfff. Anyone who believes shit like this deserves to be brainwashed.
The thing that sticks out to me though, is I have been following these Apple closely for the last several years, and usually there is a vocal minority and sometimes even a vocal majority (60-70%) who are complaining about this or that.
With this update, in my eyes, it has been very different. Virtually everyone is pissed off. For one reason or another, wether its the supposed cost of the casing, no blu-ray, firewire gone from macbook, virtually no price breaks, glossy screens, Steve pretty much closing the door on any type of tablet for atleast the next few years, loss of overall ports, etc, etc........
It seems Apple really missed the mark here.
If you really step back and think about why it is that Apple has been so successful the last 5-7 or so years, it is the fact that Apple customers have been EXTREMELY happy with Apple, they like the innovation, they actually like and believe in the company. I feel this has changed over the last year, there has been a shift, and I think it is going to hurt Apple in the near future. I think Apple has lost sight of what made them that company that everyone has loved and looked up to.
Thats just my humble opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tails
Indeed. Every time I see an angry crowd after an Apple keynote I think of Henry Ford quote "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for a better horse.".
This company did succeed to increase their revenue and their market share over the years when these same people were yelling and screaming. One may know if this manufacturing process is more expensive or cheaper than the old one, which is totally irrelevant unless one knows how much the new look will effect the sales of the computers. Apple always designed nice looking gadgets, that's their "thing" if you like. And they will always go into the lengths to make their products "look" better beyond everything else. That policy will and has annoyed many people who demanded more expandability or configurability but it's quite obvious that for the majority of its consumers, it's working as more and more people switch to Apple. You cannot blame them for putting design before function/price. And you shouldn't be stupid enough to act like you actually know more than a multibillion dollar company CEO about which manufacturing process he's gonna choose for his next lineup. That goes for Kaiser Soze obviously.
Sorry I don't and anyone should not even read or consider posts by anyone with less than 30 posts or who has been a member less than 60 days.
If Appleinsider implements a feature to completely block people by their join date, I will donate $30 to the board. If you take the hundreds of posts just today from brand new users that joined in the last 2 days, you could trace half of them back to Cuppertino and the other 25% to dummy accounts of current users who are embarrassed to say what they want under their real name, and the last 25% to actual new users.
I think this will make Apple money in several ways:
1. First, this new computer has a definite coolness factor, especially for the $1299 MacBook. Coolness sells Apple's products.
2. Second, a one-piece design saves money in repair costs, both during the original warranty period and in the extended warranty (I don't think AppleCare will get cheaper, but repairs will still go down.) 3. A more reliable computer helps Apple's image as trouble-free, which also improves sales.
As for the economy argument: 1. Most people I know is just as well off this year as last year. To the extent that holds true for the population, most people are just as able to buy a MacBook now as they were a year ago (during which time Apple's sales have skyrocketed). 2. Apple reduced the low-end prices by $100 for those who are worse off. 3. Apple should not change its entire business strategy because of a temporary economic change. By that logic, Apple should change to Dell's model for a year, then change back when the economy is better. This makes no long-term sense. It would be like Rolex deciding to make $99 watches for a year because of the economy.
I'm not going to spend time trying to say that the new process is less expensive, or allows Apple to build the $800 or $900 laptop. What I will say is that their past performance bodes well for the future. Most importantly the bit about the parts taking 10 times longer to make and the machines required costing 10 times more, and on, to all of that I will say that they can count just as well as you and I. So maybe they are seeing things in the not too distant future that we have not factored into the whole equation. What about the windmill power generating rumor that floated around for awhile? If Apple can pull that off, they could, offset more cost, maybe even paying the salaries of the people that work at the plant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser_soze
The new process will not pay off in years to come. The process has a high per-unit manufacturing cost, due to the high cost of the machines and the time that each machine spends producing one unit. Those costs will likely come down by some amount over time, but this technology has been around for several decades, and there is not going to be any drastic reduction in per-unit cost at any time.
Comments
This weekend I will be down at the Apple store to examine the new MacBook Pro, most likely I WILL be walking out with a new computer. I personally like what I have seen so far, it is impressive.
Apple has never followed the crowd and I like that. They have followed what is best for Apple. So what if the process is more expensive, what is nice is the speed bumps in the products and in the world I work in a rugged computer is a blessing.
Most of the guys I work with have Dells and end up getting a new one every two years. I have gone double and some more on my Apple. For me that is actually saving money.
So off to the Apple store on Saturday I go.
THEY HAVE LOST THEIR MINDS!!! IN ORDER FOR APPLE'S STOCK TO APPRECIATE IN VALUE, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY THAT THEY START MANUFACTURING AND SELLING NOTEBOOK COMPUTERS WHERE THE PRODUCTION COSTS HAVE BE REDUCED, NOT INCREASED! WHAT APPLE HAS DONE HERE, SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK FOR APPLE! PEOPLE WHO HAVE PURCHASED STOCK IN APPLE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DEMAND THAT APPLE MAKE DECISIONS THAT ARE ORIENTED TOWARD INCREASING MARKET SHARE AND INCREASING PROFIT, SO THAT THE VALUE OF THE STOCK WILL INCREASE! IT IS THE RIGHT OF STOCKHOLDERS TO DEMAND THIS, AND MOST CEO's UNDERSTAND THIS AND TAKE IT FOR GRANTED. INCREDIBLY AS IT SEEMS, JOBS EVIDENTLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THIS, AND THAT IS WHY HE SHOULD BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY!
Herr, Soze.
Obviously there is no need to shout. We can read what you've written regardless of the case of letters chosen.
In response to your, er, soapbox statement, I appreciate your perspective, but while the high-tech industry is one of the fastest growing and most nimble industries, it can't turn on a dime. Indeed, if GM, Ford and Chrysler were as nimble as Apple, they would have products consumers want right now.
If Apple wanted to gain market share by virtue of quantity, they would quit the hardware business and license OSX to Dell, HP and other manufacturers. But I don't think this is the philosophy of the company. What makes Apple an Apple, is their innovative use of technology, award winning product design, quality of service, etc.
In other words, Apple (aka Jobs) has decided to go for quality vs quantity. Indeed, it's like comparing a Ford Focus to a BMW Mini. The Ford is practical and reliable, but it's nothing special compared to the Mini, which is smaller, more expensive and yet for some, more desirable... It has exclusivity.
I too have had a long-term look at the financial profile of Apple and at the end of the day, they have a solid growth rate. Will it continue at the double digit rate in the past, probably not. But I'd rather they move forward at a single digit rate, in this economy, rather than the truly downward slope (spiral?) of the likes of Dell.
Now, don't get me wrong, there are a few omissions on the latest notebook products that I think they're going to regret. For example, no matte screen option on the new MBP and no FireWire port on the new MB. Having said that, overall, I think the new products are moving in the right direction in terms of innovation. Especially the possibilities of using the two GPUs and OpenCL on the new MBP, which I hope will be an architecture adapted to the next refresh of the iMac.
In conclusion, I think Jobs and the Apple board do understand what the stock holders want (i.e. market share and profit), but there are other ways to reach these goals. After all, there are those in the financial market who went for the short, quick, quantitative profit vs those institutions that stayed with prudent fiscal policy, with slow but progressive growth... I don't have to point out who's still standing these days.
- YipYipYipee
You know you've been incredibly rude to everyone on this thread and ranted and raved for a while now, but it's worth noting that you haven't actually backed up a single thing you've said, and you've really only said one thing over and over again. This is it here:
... instead of finding ways to lower the production cost, they adopted a production method that substantially increased their production costs.
While on the face of it this seems like an obvious statement, I'm sure you would agree (if you actually do know anything about this stuff), that the cost of production includes many different factors and the base level cost of machining a single part (out of hundreds) is only one of those. There are also costs of assembly, shipping, and a bunch of other factors.
If you want to keep ranting about this, how about coming up with an argument, or some facts and figures as to how this one single change to the rather complicated fabrication, production and delivery of a MacBook is "certainly" going to sink them or even significantly inflate production costs?
I was all set to make some great counter arguments to your rant, when I realised that you haven't actually made an argument at all. You've just screamed and screamed about how the world is ending, Apple is doomed, etc.
So go ahead, make an actual argument for cripes sake. And please include costs of shipping, assembly and all the costs of producing all the various bits. Maybe a couple of spreadsheets to show the difference in all areas between the previous production methods and the current.
If you can't do that (possibly because like most of us you ARE NOT ACTUALLY PRIVY TO THE DETAILS), then please shut up.
This is terribly simple. Some of you don't get it, and Jobs obviously does not get it, but he has obviously gone insane. So let me spell it out to you in black and white:
1. The investment community has factored into the price for Apple's stock, the assumption that Apple will continue to gain market share.
Oh my. Sounds like the pot is calling the kettle black.
Criticizing Apple's price point is an old tune. The iPod wasn't the cheapest option when it was released. In fact, it was lambasted in a very similar way. And yet, Apple sold a couple. The same can be said for most of Apple's products, including the iPhone. And again, I think they've sold at least a couple.
If Steve Jobs, Jonathan Ives and the hordes at Apple are insane, then so am I. I may not get it, but I'll buy it, because I'll pay more to buy more. As for the investment communities' demands, well, current situation considered, I think I'll ignore their brilliant insights for the time being.
Steve and company gave new strength to Apple by truly thinking different. They don't run with the crowd, even when it's a rambunctious group that's obsessed with capitalization and stock prices. And thank goodness, because otherwise, that Apple store that I'm buying my new unibody Macbook from, wouldn't be there.
Have a little faith, be a long-term investor and quit screaming fire when there isn't one. Sweep off those chip crumbs, wipe the froth off your mouth, shower and head down to your nearest Apple store. Just look and see for yourself. The insanity, it's spreading.
Leonard, you are obviously clueless, and as such, you really should not bother to share your naive opinions with other people. Please go find yourself an engineer who has experience and knowledge with cost accounting for fabrication processes. Someone in the aerospace industry would be a good place to look. Talk to some of them, and ask them to explain to you some of the factors that determine the difference in fabrication cost for different processes.
But you don't really have to do that, because it should be apparent to you and to anyone else who has half a brain, that the notebook computers made by manufacturers who have not chosen to apply this process to the production of their notebook computers cost about half what these Apple computers cost.
This simply the most unbelievably stupid decision that Apple could have made. If you don't understand that, it is only because you understand very little.
OK I'll bite the troll
you work in the aerospace industry, what as?
engineer ?
chief scream monger?
what are you doing wasting your time here, clearly none of us that disagree with you are worthy of spending time in your "presence"
but then you forget yourself and burden us with your ranting anyway.
you forget that you dont run Apple
you forget that your not employed by Apple {fank thuck}
you forget that Apple can do whatever the hell they want to make the most desirable looking gear in whatever industry they want.
you forget that they havent sold the stocks and they havent given the money back to the shareholders.
--
seriously, where the hell is Mel? We need to set Mel on this guy
seriously, where the hell is Mel? We need to set Mel on this guy
Amen, brother... amen.
Yes, it's about half a pound (~225g) lighter compared to the now still available 13" white polycarbonate MacBook.
In other economic times, the importance of this technology would be better appreciated. Unfortunately, price and "value for money" (i.e. features) rule the roost now.
Still, from an engineering stand-point, it is impressive. Not sure if it's revolutionary if Apple's hyperbole is to be believed. The manufacturing techniques are well known and applied to other military grade components (e.g. avionics modules on fighter aircraft) for years, but not necessarily a "consumer grade" notebook computer.
Will this new aluminium MacBook be any more tougher than the polycarbonate one? On paper should be, but we'll have to wait for some real-world tests, erm... accidents.
-YipYipYipee
I used to work in the office furniture industry and we did this exact same manufacturing process (for well over 8 years) for many different desk and file cabinet parts. It's definitely not revolutionary in even the tiniest definition of the term, maybe new(er) to the computer industry, but nowhere near revolutionary.
Dude, Seriously. Go buy a Dell and install Leopard. There are people who will pay these money for such computers. Just like people buy expensive Houses, Cars, Boats and phones. If you don't understand the differences I feel bad for you.
This new process will pay off in years to come. No other computer can do this. NO ONE!
1. I know this wasn't directed at me since I didn't post in this thread yet, but I am typing this from my Dell Mini netbook running Leopard.
2. Any company could do it if they wanted to, ANY, Apple just happens to be the company that did do it.
Honestly, I have not read one single person who is happy about the new notebooks out of the thousands of posts I've read today over several message boards. It seems like Apple seriously fudged up on SEVERAL different fronts with these new notebooks.
BUT, honestly the aluminum cases are for sure the one thing they did right. They are ridiculously sturdy, look stupid nice, scratch much less than plastic or paint, and just look piff.
There are tons of different things to complain about on virtually every area of these new notebooks, but the casing is NOT one of them.
EDIT: There is atleast 1 person(s) that is going to be extremely happy at this whole fiasco. Microsoft.
Honestly, I have not read one single person who is happy about the new notebooks out of the thousands of posts I've read today over several message boards. It seems like Apple seriously fudged up on SEVERAL different fronts with these new notebooks.
BUT, honestly the aluminum cases are for sure the one thing they did right. They are ridiculously sturdy, look stupid nice, scratch much less than plastic or paint, and just look piff.
I would not at all in any case use the fickled people in the interweb to gauge the wider consumer market.
You are absolutely right that they are not interested in the sub-$1000 notebook crowd. That is evident. But the problem is that if they want to do what is right for the people who own their stock, they have to make smart business decisions, and this is probably the worst business decision that they could possibly have made.
Perhaps part of the reason we are in the current economic mess we are in is because companies paid too much attention to their stock price (sometime managing the businesses as nothing more than a stock manipulation scheme) and not enough attention to their business and their customers (note: despite what many people think, stockholders are not customers). Too many business (and too many individuals for that matter) are run on credit, borrowed money which these days is hard to come by, all in the pursuit of low-cost and market share.
If you don't like the way they build computers, don't buy them. If you don't like the way they run the company, don't by stock. Personally, I think it's a bit silly to build computers this way. But they have $20 billion in the bank, no corporate debt, and a 10% market share in the US (vs 2-3% a couple of years ago). I'm not going to argue with that.
Also, many of those notebooks that you find in the $600 range are using celrons and have 1GB of RAM. Not exactly a fair comparison, especially when the new Macboks are packing Nvidia's graphics.
I would not at all in any case use the fickled people in the interweb to gauge the wider consumer market.
Indeed. Every time I see an angry crowd after an Apple keynote I think of Henry Ford quote "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for a better horse.".
This company did succeed to increase their revenue and their market share over the years when these same people were yelling and screaming. One may know if this manufacturing process is more expensive or cheaper than the old one, which is totally irrelevant unless one knows how much the new look will effect the sales of the computers. Apple always designed nice looking gadgets, that's their "thing" if you like. And they will always go into the lengths to make their products "look" better beyond everything else. That policy will and has annoyed many people who demanded more expandability or configurability but it's quite obvious that for the majority of its consumers, it's working as more and more people switch to Apple. You cannot blame them for putting design before function/price. And you shouldn't be stupid enough to act like you actually know more than a multibillion dollar company CEO about which manufacturing process he's gonna choose for his next lineup. That goes for Kaiser Soze obviously.
Still, from an engineering stand-point, it is impressive. Not sure if it's revolutionary if Apple's hyperbole is to be believed. The manufacturing techniques are well known and applied to other military grade components (e.g. avionics modules on fighter aircraft) for years, but not necessarily a "consumer grade" notebook computer.
Many of the car's engine blocks are manufactured using digital milling machines too. I took the BMW manufacture tour in Munich Germany back in 1991, and they had a farm of milling machines to mill their engine blocks.
Regarding the amount of aluminum lost during milling...it's aluminum! One would think they'd have set up shop to reclaim most of that and return it to the process. I'd be interested in knowing if that's not feasible or possible.
Yeah it is definitely recyclable, but it has to be dried, shipped, and re-melted. Which wastes energy and some resources.
Apple does sell their computers for more than the competition and if they want to charge a premium they should deliver a better product. I, for example, do care a lot more about the build quality, the materials and the design than about notebook performance (CPU, GPU, memory, HDD...) because for my use, anything that is built in 2008 is plenty fast (but lots of notebooks look garish and are flimsy crap).
There are plenty of premium products in the marketplace where the manufacturer didn't choose the cheapest (or an economically good) process. This creates, or cements, an image of high quality and this will translate in sales.
I would not at all in any case use the fickled people in the interweb to gauge the wider consumer market.
Trust me your singing to the choir. It takes ALOT of confirmation and re-confirmation for me to believe anything. I don't believe hardly anything I read and only half of what I see.
The moon landing, US history books, plane hitting the Pentagon. Pfff. Anyone who believes shit like this deserves to be brainwashed.
The thing that sticks out to me though, is I have been following these Apple closely for the last several years, and usually there is a vocal minority and sometimes even a vocal majority (60-70%) who are complaining about this or that.
With this update, in my eyes, it has been very different. Virtually everyone is pissed off. For one reason or another, wether its the supposed cost of the casing, no blu-ray, firewire gone from macbook, virtually no price breaks, glossy screens, Steve pretty much closing the door on any type of tablet for atleast the next few years, loss of overall ports, etc, etc........
It seems Apple really missed the mark here.
If you really step back and think about why it is that Apple has been so successful the last 5-7 or so years, it is the fact that Apple customers have been EXTREMELY happy with Apple, they like the innovation, they actually like and believe in the company. I feel this has changed over the last year, there has been a shift, and I think it is going to hurt Apple in the near future. I think Apple has lost sight of what made them that company that everyone has loved and looked up to.
Thats just my humble opinion.
Indeed. Every time I see an angry crowd after an Apple keynote I think of Henry Ford quote "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for a better horse.".
This company did succeed to increase their revenue and their market share over the years when these same people were yelling and screaming. One may know if this manufacturing process is more expensive or cheaper than the old one, which is totally irrelevant unless one knows how much the new look will effect the sales of the computers. Apple always designed nice looking gadgets, that's their "thing" if you like. And they will always go into the lengths to make their products "look" better beyond everything else. That policy will and has annoyed many people who demanded more expandability or configurability but it's quite obvious that for the majority of its consumers, it's working as more and more people switch to Apple. You cannot blame them for putting design before function/price. And you shouldn't be stupid enough to act like you actually know more than a multibillion dollar company CEO about which manufacturing process he's gonna choose for his next lineup. That goes for Kaiser Soze obviously.
Sorry I don't and anyone should not even read or consider posts by anyone with less than 30 posts or who has been a member less than 60 days.
If Appleinsider implements a feature to completely block people by their join date, I will donate $30 to the board. If you take the hundreds of posts just today from brand new users that joined in the last 2 days, you could trace half of them back to Cuppertino and the other 25% to dummy accounts of current users who are embarrassed to say what they want under their real name, and the last 25% to actual new users.
1. First, this new computer has a definite coolness factor, especially for the $1299 MacBook. Coolness sells Apple's products.
2. Second, a one-piece design saves money in repair costs, both during the original warranty period and in the extended warranty (I don't think AppleCare will get cheaper, but repairs will still go down.) 3. A more reliable computer helps Apple's image as trouble-free, which also improves sales.
As for the economy argument: 1. Most people I know is just as well off this year as last year. To the extent that holds true for the population, most people are just as able to buy a MacBook now as they were a year ago (during which time Apple's sales have skyrocketed). 2. Apple reduced the low-end prices by $100 for those who are worse off. 3. Apple should not change its entire business strategy because of a temporary economic change. By that logic, Apple should change to Dell's model for a year, then change back when the economy is better. This makes no long-term sense. It would be like Rolex deciding to make $99 watches for a year because of the economy.
The new process will not pay off in years to come. The process has a high per-unit manufacturing cost, due to the high cost of the machines and the time that each machine spends producing one unit. Those costs will likely come down by some amount over time, but this technology has been around for several decades, and there is not going to be any drastic reduction in per-unit cost at any time.