True, but not everyone finds an SSD worth the cost either, but Apple included a CTO option for Blu-Ray. Why couldn't they do the exact same thing with Blu-Ray they did with SSDs on the MacBook?
My guess is that OS X lacks HDCP, and Apple is either hesitant about building that into OS X, or it's such a large job that it's best implemented into Snow Leopard rather than released as a Leopard patch.
Either way, you can buy HD content through iTunes. If you're dead set on watching HD shows/movies on a notebook, there you go.
The Macbook is the #1 selling Mac of all time. What do you want to bet that Macworld brings us FW-less iMacs and Mac minis. Let's see what happens in the next revision of the pro lineup. At this point, anyone buying a FW perif, even FW 800 has been warned.
Oh, I'm not takin' that bet. If the Mac mini actually gets updated instead of just discontinued, it will definitely lose its Firewire port. The iMac might keep one FW800 port, though.
Here in France, with the EU 'tax', the new Macbooks, and indeed Macbook Pros do *not* look like a good deal at all
For me, the Alu is a deal breaker, as it kills wireless reception, and overall, the specs in comparison to other brands are just not up to much for the price Apple consumers are expected to pay. I need a replacement machine for 2 Macbook Pros I have, both of which are on their last legs, and for the first time in 20+ years, I am now 90% sure they will not be Apple machines. I hung on to see what was announced, but for me it is too little, too late.
I had high hopes, but this round of updates feels waaaaaay too late. Maybe if they were announced 4 or 5 months ago, yes, but now, other manufacturers have caught up spec wise, and in France reduced priced to levels vastly below Apple, for effectively the same tech...
As much as I *love* OS X, I can't justify 500Euro+ just to use it
My guess is that OS X lacks HDCP, and Apple is either hesitant about building that into OS X, or it's such a large job that it's best implemented into Snow Leopard rather than released as a Leopard patch.
Either way, you can buy HD content through iTunes. If you're dead set on watching HD shows/movies on a notebook, there you go.
I agree. Developing B-R software that runs and burns the media is not as easy as some people think. It's not like Apple can just sell the drives and "bang, there it is!"
For me, the Alu is a deal breaker, as it kills wireless reception, and overall, the specs in comparison to other brands are just not up to much for the price Apple consumers are expected to pay.
Yet another poster who needs to do his research before whining.
The aluminum MBP has always had excellent wi-fi range. The plastic MB's range is not that much superior. If for you personally, even a tiny bit worse range is a "deal breaker," then that's your call, but alu does not "kill wireless reception."
Take a look at other 13" laptops on the market before making the false statement that the "specs in comparison" are inferior --and I said THIRTEEN inch laptops.
How many of the people defending lack of Firewire in the MacBook actually believe what they are saying? If Apple had continued to offer Firewire in the MacBook, these same people would be praising Apple because:
"Firewire is so superior to USB"
"MacBook offers high end features not found on bargain basement laptops"
"Target Disk Mode make Macs so much superior to PCs"
But now that Apple dropped Firewire, these same people will just say "Who needs it anyway?"
No matter what Apple does, the Apple defenders will be right there to rationalize and defend them. If Apple completely changes direction, the Apple defenders will also change their story and contradict themselves right along with Apple. Instead of flip-flopping back and forth, why don't you stand by your beliefs?
There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.
Apple will not make a cell phone.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Who needs automatic memory allocation? Just click Get Info and change the memory yourself.
Who needs preemptive multitasking or memory protection since Macs never crash?
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter
Apple could have released a notebook without a screen and some here would be falling all over themselves to justify it. The computer, like the iPhone, is lacking extremely basic features seen everywhere else that cost pennies on the dollar to implement.
Just beautiful.
Honestly, I'm beginning to think there are Apple plants in this forum with some of the irrational fanboyism.
Yet another poster who needs to do his research before whining.
The aluminum MBP has always had excellent wi-fi range. The plastic MB's range is not that much superior. If for you personally, even a tiny bit worse range is a "deal breaker," then that's your call, but alu does not "kill wireless reception."
Take a look at other 13" laptops on the market before making the false statement that the "specs in comparison" are inferior --and I said THIRTEEN inch laptops.
Another poster who prefers to draw sweeping generalisations about another poster... I really do pity people like yourself who have to apologise and evangelise everything Apple does and every new product they release, without looking at the facts. /sigh
For reference, I have had through my business/work, at one time or another, pretty much one of every model laptop Apple have made. I currently have *infront* of me... MBP 2.1ghz, MBP 1.83ghz, Powerbook G4, iBook G4 1ghz, 2.1ghz Macbook, Lenovo Thinkpad T61p, Acer Aspire 5920, EeePC 901.
If the reception on the MPB is *SO* good as you point out, why is it that the 2 I have here are the only ones that do not pick up my Wireless Network on the 3rd floor of my office? The Powerbook G4 does also not pick up the signal. All the others have either full or 3/4 reception... MBPs? Nada, nothing, zip. Great reception clearly. For me, I work mainly on the 3rd floor, so if I can't get the internet with the machines, yes, it is a deal breaker.
As for prices, funnily enough, I have spent the last 6 weeks looking at machines, prices, and making price/cost/benefit analysis. I draw you to;
For reference, the base model Macbook Alu goes for 1200Euro.
Lecteur fin 8x DVD+/-RW Ã* chargement par fente, logiciel compris
This is the 'top of the line' model here in France. It sells for 849 Euro! yes some of the specs are worse than the MB, but some of them far exceed it. But it is nearly 400Euro cheaper!
Just in the local supermarkets you have these machines that are either 12" or 13.3", and processor and RAM wise are on a par with the Macbook. I just got a paper through the door which had the following 2 listed;
PACKARD BELL - EasyNote BG45-P-071FR - 499 Euro!
ACER - Aspire 2920-6A3G32Mi - 699Euro
Yes they are 12", but have as good a processor, more RAM, and vastly more HDD as standard than the MB. That is without even trying. If I go to a proper computer store, there are at least 5 other 13" (or close) machines that are better value than the new MB Alu. For the Macbook Alu, in France, I stand by my point. It is not great value for money, and that the specs are not as great as they should have been, in fact needed to be, should Apple justify the price point in Euros.
for those who have been reading my posts and think that I was complaning about the lack of firewire on a cheap laptop:
that is not the case.. if they would have made a 13" macBook (pro) with firewire at $1600, I would have been happy.
I really don't want to go BIG.
and then the argument that some fanboys give that the materials are more expensive, so they had to cut something away:
firewire is relatively cheap to add into the case, AND.. they already did cut something away: the "the low entry macBook".
just last week we had three macBooks: $1100, $1300, $1500
this week we only have the two more expensive options: $1300 and $1600 (oh and a clearance sale of old plastic ones)
they already increased the prices, so why cut down on this cheap function and take away a big part of it's functionality?
we have been reading about the new 17" macBook pro coming early next year, apple would do good if they make the line up:
$1200 13" 2.0 macBook (no firewire)
$1400 13" 2.4 macBook (no firewire)
$1700 13" 1.6 macBook air (no ports whatsoever)
$2500 13" 1.8 macBook air (SSD drive)
$1600 13" 2.3 macBook pro (incl firewire 400)
$1900 15" 2.4 macBook pro (incl firewire 400)
$2400 15" 2.5 macBook pro (incl firewire 800)
$2700 17" 2.6 macBook pro (incl firewire 800)
(I'm only leaving the no firewire options in because I don't think apple wants to lose face over this, so they'd rather offer an addition 13" pro model than admit that they were wrong to take it out.. and if that means we also get the better graphics option in a 13", you really won't hear me complain again)
edit: and don't get hung up over the prices I stated, they might be off by 100-200..
and if they need the room: I can see the 13" pro model losing the ethernet port with an option to buy a USB or firewire to ethernet converter plug for only $30
Like a few others have said, Apple is the one who fostered the whole FireWire ecosystem. They developed the technology, promoted it in their stores, featured it on most of the peripherals they sold, and importantly based their consumer-oriented iLife software around usage of FW peripherals.
That they are eliminating the ports is not the key issue. Instead, they've provided no possible replacement technology to allow people to use the equipment that they specifically promoted. For years, Apple made the claim that buying a Mac was the way to make home movies and they offered the one-stop-shop for doing so (computer, software, peripherals... all able to work in concert). This is a distinctly different scenario than floppy drives, Apple Desktop Bus, printer ports, etc. None of those were designed to allow a Mac to do things that other computers couldn't also easily do.
Ironically, about every Windows machine still has FW compatibility of some type or another either by a 1394 port, Cardbus/ExpressCard slot, or even the converter cable (XP only so far). Not one of those options is possible with the new MacBook.
Frankly, I think of myself as an Apple apologist of some sort (well, I've been using them for 20 years) but this is the first time that I can recall Apple abandoning a technology that they have considered superior without offering any type of backward solution.
... but this is the first time that I can recall Apple abandoning a technology that they have considered superior without offering any type of backward solution.
This sums up well the situation. My hope is that after enough pressure (read: drop in sales) Apple may re-consider this decision and add in a later revision FW 800 at least in the high end MB.
The best selling HP Pavillion has Firewire, card reader and Expresscard 34 slots..
Thing is, this example shows how HP muddies the water while Apple is too keen to cut features.
No computer needs Firewire, a card reader and an Expresscard slot. That's overkill.
Just put the EC34 slot on, and you can add Firewire, card readers and more to your heart's delight.
Apple, on the other hand, ships a consumer laptop without the ability to add any of the above. What?
Quote:
Originally Posted by desides
If it's so important that people refuse to give up their FireWire devices, then they need to bite the bullet and upgrade.
For many people, having to walk around with a 15" laptop instead of the 13" is a downgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
...I think you guys are freaking out because this is a clear sign Firewire is falling into obscurity.
Everyone knew that FW was in a transition to 3200 and that it would be in competition with USB 3 in late 2009/early 2010. As I've said, if Apple - who has chaired the move to 3200 - sees no future for Firewire, they should say so and prepare everyone to move to something else.
Of course, only noobs use USB2 for hard drives. So if Firewire goes, we need eSata.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB
This sums up well the situation. My hope is that after enough pressure (read: drop in sales) Apple may re-consider this decision and add in a later revision FW 800 at least in the high end MB.
Personally, this debacle has changed my view of the whole laptop idea. I may pick up one of those $599. PC laptops in Costco and throw the funds saved into my new Mac Pro in 2009.
My current portable doesn't get a real workout, though I like the idea that I have access to my full suite of apps when I'm on the road. If we're going to abandon the illusion that laptops are for real AV and design work away from the office, why am I paying $700. more to check email, browse the web and play tunes?
Can I get a memory upgrade on a new MacBook when I buy it at the Apple Store or do I have to order online to make that happen?
The Apple store will install upgrade RAM for you, but it will cost more than a BTO model from their online store as you will pay full boat for the new RAM (and be left with one or two sticks of RAM in your pocket).
The Apple store will install upgrade RAM for you, but it will cost more than a BTO model from their online store as you will pay full boat for the new RAM (and be left with one or two sticks of RAM in your pocket).
That's what I figured. I couldn't believe the BTO RAM upgrade price was lower than what I can get from a 3rd party. I guess they give you a good deal on RAM upgrade when you buy the thing and then bend you over a couch if you buy it from Apple after the fact.
On another note, this thread contains info from a few people who have actually touched these new MacBooks. Anyone NOT like the new trackpad? I'm curious most about that.
Just put the EC34 slot on, and you can add Firewire, card readers and more to your heart's delight...Apple, on the other hand, ships a consumer laptop without the ability to add any of the above. What?
In the US white MacBook now $999. In the UK, white Macbook has gone up $40 - and nothings changed
Put off buying MacBook few weeks ago cos I heard it might go down in price. HAHA
Was going to buy one, but now ill go for cheaper option. Dell
Could be due to currency fluctuations. Would you be fair enough about this to check to see how the price on the Dell has changed in the same time frame, and report back to us?
Just put the EC34 slot on, and you can add Firewire, card readers and more to your heart's delight.
Apple, on the other hand, ships a consumer laptop without the ability to add any of the above. What?
From what I understand, the new Apple view of consumer notebooks is synonym to absolute minimalism; even if this may harm the overall Mac experience, as it has been so many times pointed out in this thread.
But to be fair, having seen the Macbook video and the AI photos here, I have to say that the new MB is a really impressive piece of hardware. The design has just reached a new level.
"The Macbook is a consumer product" nonsensical statement. Every Macbook until October 14th has had Firewire thus any correlation you attempt to make between Firewire being a Pro only feature will be easily repudiated.
Assuming anything is foolhardy. Technicians use Firewire often to rescue hard drives or transfer files easily using Target Disk Mode. TDM is one of those features that you might not realize the power until it saves your bacon or makes transferring files much easier. It's not gone.
All the market research in the world doesn't ameliorate the simple facts. Preceding Macbooks have always had Firewire. The relative cost of the technology must be low as Apple created the format and purchased Zyante
The best selling HP Pavillion has Firewire, card reader and Expresscard 34 slots. What's Apple's excuse for removing a feature that is on most PC consumer laptops?
I think it's very telling that the excuses given for the removal of a feature that was replaced with nothing center around silly anecdotes or banal logic and correlations.
With connectivity ..more is almost always preferrable to less.
Damn it, thank you. Finally someone gets it.
My question to others is this:
Does not having firewire make the machine better and more attractive to you?
With the way you all go on and on about it, defending it against everyone who has been using it for years and people who wanted it that are non-professionals you'd think that you're actually happy it's gone.
Were you sitting there thinking "f*** if apple takes firewire off the macbook I'll finally buy one," because all these defendants are treating it like a small victory.
Did it make the computer cheaper?
Lighter?
Better?
If someone who likes the new macbook and intends to get it could explain to me how their computer has been strengthened by the lack of firewire, I am all ears.
For a very simple reason : because not everybody is WiFi-equipped these days. The building of the U I'm teaching at (that's why I've got an educational rebate) has no WiFi. So I have to use a good old Ethernet cable instead. WiFi is installed, but it does not work, for unknown reasons. I'm sure it'll be fixed some day, but when?
Actually apple has said quite a few times that built in ethernet isn't a big deal, which is why they've been content selling the usb->ethernet dongle for the air. The could simply have dropped it in the box for the macbook.
Besides how much longer do you think the building you're teaching at will go without wifi before they fix the issues? Not that long. In the 2006/07 school year there were quite a few building in my U that didn't have wifi or it wasn't working and now in the 2008/09 year all those buildings have it.
The ethernet problem is a short term problem that already has a solution, the firewire removal is a permanent problem that apple has not given us a solution for.
Just put the EC34 slot on, and you can add Firewire, card readers and more to your heart's delight.
Apple and even some of their fanboys on this forum like to say everything is wireless and wired standards are going the way of the Dodo, but the reality is a lot of people would beg to differ. The necessity for wired connections is becoming less common as wireless technologies move to higher bandwidths and better ranges, but there are some circumstances where wireless technologies just aren't practical(eg. large amounts of bandwidth). The lack of the EC34 slot seems rather odd insofar as that no matter how good you design a laptop invariably some users are going to want one more xyz port than was included. Instead of limiting the end users possibilities Apple ought to break down and include the EC34 slot so that the users can have eSATA , FW400/800, or some older port for an older application(RS232, parallel, etc.) if they want it.
People claim that Apple has to do this to prevent the cannibalization of the MBP sales, but even without the Expresscard/34 advantage the Macbook Pro has plenty of advantages over the Macbook such as a dramatically better graphics card, FW800, and a better resolution even for the 15" model. I think moving to the Geforce 9400 on the MB will do more to hurt the sales of the MBP then had they included Expresscard in the MB. Even Steve Jobs outright said that the graphics gap between the MB & MBP has dropped dramatically. That is practically an invitation for people to second guess whether they really need to buy the more profitable MBP. The old Intel graphics were so underpowered that a lot of games couldn't run well or in some cases at all despite the fact that the MB had a fairly good mobile processor.
Quote:
Of course, only noobs use USB2 for hard drives. So if Firewire goes, we need eSata.
Now there was somewhere where I thought Apple should have been ahead of the curve(a trailblazer in the industry). eSATA isn't some stillborn standard. I am shocked nobody asked about it in the Q&A. I can go to any Fry's and they will sell hundreds of external HDDs with eSATA every weekend. Even less specialized stores like Staples or Costco sell external drive that include eSATA. The potential number of people buying a Macbook that could immediately take advantage of the eSATA port is probably in the millions, which is more than I can say about Displayport. Furthermore, Apple could have integrated Target Disk mode with eSATA. ArsTechnica reported that Apple submitted a patent application for TDM through eSATA. Maybe it wasn't ready for primetime yet, but if it is ready that would have been a rational port to put in the place of the FW400 port. Displayport on the other hand, I am not so sure about.
How many monitors are there with Displayport? The Dell 2408 and their 3008 and this new Apple 24" LED display whenever it ships. Until you get past single link DVI where Displayport is supposed to provide better bandwidth I don't see the benefit of the move for Apple's customers. I never heard anyone complain that the Macbook didn't support resolutions beyond 1920x1200. The move at least on the Macbook seems slightly self serving insofar as AFAIK Apple is the only company selling mini-Displayport adapters whereas I can name at least two companies selling the Mini-DVI adapters that the old Macbook used(one for about half off the Apple adapter). Hopefully, Mini-Displayport catches on in some of the subcompacts so that Mini-DP cables and adapters are popular(cheaper than Apple) or at the very least someone other than Apple sees the profit potential and sells their own Mini-DP cables and adapters. Except for the pro market where resolutions beyond 1920x1200 exist I don't see a lot of demand for Displayport. For a laptop largely aimed at the consumer market DP seems a little overkill.
Comments
True, but not everyone finds an SSD worth the cost either, but Apple included a CTO option for Blu-Ray. Why couldn't they do the exact same thing with Blu-Ray they did with SSDs on the MacBook?
My guess is that OS X lacks HDCP, and Apple is either hesitant about building that into OS X, or it's such a large job that it's best implemented into Snow Leopard rather than released as a Leopard patch.
Either way, you can buy HD content through iTunes. If you're dead set on watching HD shows/movies on a notebook, there you go.
The Macbook is the #1 selling Mac of all time. What do you want to bet that Macworld brings us FW-less iMacs and Mac minis. Let's see what happens in the next revision of the pro lineup. At this point, anyone buying a FW perif, even FW 800 has been warned.
Oh, I'm not takin' that bet. If the Mac mini actually gets updated instead of just discontinued, it will definitely lose its Firewire port. The iMac might keep one FW800 port, though.
For me, the Alu is a deal breaker, as it kills wireless reception, and overall, the specs in comparison to other brands are just not up to much for the price Apple consumers are expected to pay. I need a replacement machine for 2 Macbook Pros I have, both of which are on their last legs, and for the first time in 20+ years, I am now 90% sure they will not be Apple machines. I hung on to see what was announced, but for me it is too little, too late.
I had high hopes, but this round of updates feels waaaaaay too late. Maybe if they were announced 4 or 5 months ago, yes, but now, other manufacturers have caught up spec wise, and in France reduced priced to levels vastly below Apple, for effectively the same tech...
As much as I *love* OS X, I can't justify 500Euro+ just to use it
My guess is that OS X lacks HDCP, and Apple is either hesitant about building that into OS X, or it's such a large job that it's best implemented into Snow Leopard rather than released as a Leopard patch.
Either way, you can buy HD content through iTunes. If you're dead set on watching HD shows/movies on a notebook, there you go.
I agree. Developing B-R software that runs and burns the media is not as easy as some people think. It's not like Apple can just sell the drives and "bang, there it is!"
For me, the Alu is a deal breaker, as it kills wireless reception, and overall, the specs in comparison to other brands are just not up to much for the price Apple consumers are expected to pay.
Yet another poster who needs to do his research before whining.
The aluminum MBP has always had excellent wi-fi range. The plastic MB's range is not that much superior. If for you personally, even a tiny bit worse range is a "deal breaker," then that's your call, but alu does not "kill wireless reception."
Take a look at other 13" laptops on the market before making the false statement that the "specs in comparison" are inferior --and I said THIRTEEN inch laptops.
Originally Posted by Haggar
How many of the people defending lack of Firewire in the MacBook actually believe what they are saying? If Apple had continued to offer Firewire in the MacBook, these same people would be praising Apple because:
"Firewire is so superior to USB"
"MacBook offers high end features not found on bargain basement laptops"
"Target Disk Mode make Macs so much superior to PCs"
But now that Apple dropped Firewire, these same people will just say "Who needs it anyway?"
No matter what Apple does, the Apple defenders will be right there to rationalize and defend them. If Apple completely changes direction, the Apple defenders will also change their story and contradict themselves right along with Apple. Instead of flip-flopping back and forth, why don't you stand by your beliefs?
There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.
Apple will not make a cell phone.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Who needs automatic memory allocation? Just click Get Info and change the memory yourself.
Who needs preemptive multitasking or memory protection since Macs never crash?
Apple could have released a notebook without a screen and some here would be falling all over themselves to justify it. The computer, like the iPhone, is lacking extremely basic features seen everywhere else that cost pennies on the dollar to implement.
Just beautiful.
Honestly, I'm beginning to think there are Apple plants in this forum with some of the irrational fanboyism.
Yet another poster who needs to do his research before whining.
The aluminum MBP has always had excellent wi-fi range. The plastic MB's range is not that much superior. If for you personally, even a tiny bit worse range is a "deal breaker," then that's your call, but alu does not "kill wireless reception."
Take a look at other 13" laptops on the market before making the false statement that the "specs in comparison" are inferior --and I said THIRTEEN inch laptops.
Another poster who prefers to draw sweeping generalisations about another poster... I really do pity people like yourself who have to apologise and evangelise everything Apple does and every new product they release, without looking at the facts. /sigh
For reference, I have had through my business/work, at one time or another, pretty much one of every model laptop Apple have made. I currently have *infront* of me... MBP 2.1ghz, MBP 1.83ghz, Powerbook G4, iBook G4 1ghz, 2.1ghz Macbook, Lenovo Thinkpad T61p, Acer Aspire 5920, EeePC 901.
If the reception on the MPB is *SO* good as you point out, why is it that the 2 I have here are the only ones that do not pick up my Wireless Network on the 3rd floor of my office? The Powerbook G4 does also not pick up the signal. All the others have either full or 3/4 reception... MBPs? Nada, nothing, zip. Great reception clearly. For me, I work mainly on the 3rd floor, so if I can't get the internet with the machines, yes, it is a deal breaker.
As for prices, funnily enough, I have spent the last 6 weeks looking at machines, prices, and making price/cost/benefit analysis. I draw you to;
For reference, the base model Macbook Alu goes for 1200Euro.
Dell - XPS 1330
Processeur Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T8100 (2,10 GHz, mémoire cache L2 de 3 Mo, FSB 800 MHz)
Windows Vista® �dition Familiale Premium SP1 authentique - Français
Ecran WXGA (1280x800) 13,3 pouces CCFL (220 nits) avec TrueLife™
nVidia® GeForce® 8400M GS de 128 Mo
4096 Mo de mémoire bicanale SDRAM DDR2 667 MHz [2x2048]
Disque dur SATA de 320 Go (5400 tpm)
Lecteur fin 8x DVD+/-RW Ã* chargement par fente, logiciel compris
This is the 'top of the line' model here in France. It sells for 849 Euro! yes some of the specs are worse than the MB, but some of them far exceed it. But it is nearly 400Euro cheaper!
Just in the local supermarkets you have these machines that are either 12" or 13.3", and processor and RAM wise are on a par with the Macbook. I just got a paper through the door which had the following 2 listed;
PACKARD BELL - EasyNote BG45-P-071FR - 499 Euro!
ACER - Aspire 2920-6A3G32Mi - 699Euro
Yes they are 12", but have as good a processor, more RAM, and vastly more HDD as standard than the MB. That is without even trying. If I go to a proper computer store, there are at least 5 other 13" (or close) machines that are better value than the new MB Alu. For the Macbook Alu, in France, I stand by my point. It is not great value for money, and that the specs are not as great as they should have been, in fact needed to be, should Apple justify the price point in Euros.
that is not the case.. if they would have made a 13" macBook (pro) with firewire at $1600, I would have been happy.
I really don't want to go BIG.
and then the argument that some fanboys give that the materials are more expensive, so they had to cut something away:
firewire is relatively cheap to add into the case, AND.. they already did cut something away: the "the low entry macBook".
just last week we had three macBooks: $1100, $1300, $1500
this week we only have the two more expensive options: $1300 and $1600 (oh and a clearance sale of old plastic ones)
they already increased the prices, so why cut down on this cheap function and take away a big part of it's functionality?
we have been reading about the new 17" macBook pro coming early next year, apple would do good if they make the line up:
$1200 13" 2.0 macBook (no firewire)
$1400 13" 2.4 macBook (no firewire)
$1700 13" 1.6 macBook air (no ports whatsoever)
$2500 13" 1.8 macBook air (SSD drive)
$1600 13" 2.3 macBook pro (incl firewire 400)
$1900 15" 2.4 macBook pro (incl firewire 400)
$2400 15" 2.5 macBook pro (incl firewire 800)
$2700 17" 2.6 macBook pro (incl firewire 800)
(I'm only leaving the no firewire options in because I don't think apple wants to lose face over this, so they'd rather offer an addition 13" pro model than admit that they were wrong to take it out.. and if that means we also get the better graphics option in a 13", you really won't hear me complain again)
edit: and don't get hung up over the prices I stated, they might be off by 100-200..
and if they need the room: I can see the 13" pro model losing the ethernet port with an option to buy a USB or firewire to ethernet converter plug for only $30
That they are eliminating the ports is not the key issue. Instead, they've provided no possible replacement technology to allow people to use the equipment that they specifically promoted. For years, Apple made the claim that buying a Mac was the way to make home movies and they offered the one-stop-shop for doing so (computer, software, peripherals... all able to work in concert). This is a distinctly different scenario than floppy drives, Apple Desktop Bus, printer ports, etc. None of those were designed to allow a Mac to do things that other computers couldn't also easily do.
Ironically, about every Windows machine still has FW compatibility of some type or another either by a 1394 port, Cardbus/ExpressCard slot, or even the converter cable (XP only so far). Not one of those options is possible with the new MacBook.
Frankly, I think of myself as an Apple apologist of some sort (well, I've been using them for 20 years) but this is the first time that I can recall Apple abandoning a technology that they have considered superior without offering any type of backward solution.
... but this is the first time that I can recall Apple abandoning a technology that they have considered superior without offering any type of backward solution.
This sums up well the situation. My hope is that after enough pressure (read: drop in sales) Apple may re-consider this decision and add in a later revision FW 800 at least in the high end MB.
The best selling HP Pavillion has Firewire, card reader and Expresscard 34 slots..
Thing is, this example shows how HP muddies the water while Apple is too keen to cut features.
No computer needs Firewire, a card reader and an Expresscard slot. That's overkill.
Just put the EC34 slot on, and you can add Firewire, card readers and more to your heart's delight.
Apple, on the other hand, ships a consumer laptop without the ability to add any of the above. What?
If it's so important that people refuse to give up their FireWire devices, then they need to bite the bullet and upgrade.
For many people, having to walk around with a 15" laptop instead of the 13" is a downgrade.
...I think you guys are freaking out because this is a clear sign Firewire is falling into obscurity.
Everyone knew that FW was in a transition to 3200 and that it would be in competition with USB 3 in late 2009/early 2010. As I've said, if Apple - who has chaired the move to 3200 - sees no future for Firewire, they should say so and prepare everyone to move to something else.
Of course, only noobs use USB2 for hard drives.
This sums up well the situation. My hope is that after enough pressure (read: drop in sales) Apple may re-consider this decision and add in a later revision FW 800 at least in the high end MB.
Personally, this debacle has changed my view of the whole laptop idea. I may pick up one of those $599. PC laptops in Costco and throw the funds saved into my new Mac Pro in 2009.
My current portable doesn't get a real workout, though I like the idea that I have access to my full suite of apps when I'm on the road. If we're going to abandon the illusion that laptops are for real AV and design work away from the office, why am I paying $700. more to check email, browse the web and play tunes?
Can I get a memory upgrade on a new MacBook when I buy it at the Apple Store or do I have to order online to make that happen?
The Apple store will install upgrade RAM for you, but it will cost more than a BTO model from their online store as you will pay full boat for the new RAM (and be left with one or two sticks of RAM in your pocket).
The Apple store will install upgrade RAM for you, but it will cost more than a BTO model from their online store as you will pay full boat for the new RAM (and be left with one or two sticks of RAM in your pocket).
That's what I figured. I couldn't believe the BTO RAM upgrade price was lower than what I can get from a 3rd party. I guess they give you a good deal on RAM upgrade when you buy the thing and then bend you over a couch if you buy it from Apple after the fact.
On another note, this thread contains info from a few people who have actually touched these new MacBooks. Anyone NOT like the new trackpad? I'm curious most about that.
Just put the EC34 slot on, and you can add Firewire, card readers and more to your heart's delight...Apple, on the other hand, ships a consumer laptop without the ability to add any of the above. What?
exactly.
The Hell
In the US white MacBook now $999. In the UK, white Macbook has gone up $40 - and nothings changed
Put off buying MacBook few weeks ago cos I heard it might go down in price. HAHA
Was going to buy one, but now ill go for cheaper option. Dell
Could be due to currency fluctuations. Would you be fair enough about this to check to see how the price on the Dell has changed in the same time frame, and report back to us?
Just put the EC34 slot on, and you can add Firewire, card readers and more to your heart's delight.
Apple, on the other hand, ships a consumer laptop without the ability to add any of the above. What?
From what I understand, the new Apple view of consumer notebooks is synonym to absolute minimalism; even if this may harm the overall Mac experience, as it has been so many times pointed out in this thread.
But to be fair, having seen the Macbook video and the AI photos here, I have to say that the new MB is a really impressive piece of hardware. The design has just reached a new level.
"The Macbook is a consumer product" nonsensical statement. Every Macbook until October 14th has had Firewire thus any correlation you attempt to make between Firewire being a Pro only feature will be easily repudiated.
Assuming anything is foolhardy. Technicians use Firewire often to rescue hard drives or transfer files easily using Target Disk Mode. TDM is one of those features that you might not realize the power until it saves your bacon or makes transferring files much easier. It's not gone.
All the market research in the world doesn't ameliorate the simple facts. Preceding Macbooks have always had Firewire. The relative cost of the technology must be low as Apple created the format and purchased Zyante
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._5/ai_84450485
The best selling HP Pavillion has Firewire, card reader and Expresscard 34 slots. What's Apple's excuse for removing a feature that is on most PC consumer laptops?
I think it's very telling that the excuses given for the removal of a feature that was replaced with nothing center around silly anecdotes or banal logic and correlations.
With connectivity ..more is almost always preferrable to less.
Damn it, thank you. Finally someone gets it.
My question to others is this:
Does not having firewire make the machine better and more attractive to you?
With the way you all go on and on about it, defending it against everyone who has been using it for years and people who wanted it that are non-professionals you'd think that you're actually happy it's gone.
Were you sitting there thinking "f*** if apple takes firewire off the macbook I'll finally buy one," because all these defendants are treating it like a small victory.
Did it make the computer cheaper?
Lighter?
Better?
If someone who likes the new macbook and intends to get it could explain to me how their computer has been strengthened by the lack of firewire, I am all ears.
For a very simple reason : because not everybody is WiFi-equipped these days. The building of the U I'm teaching at (that's why I've got an educational rebate) has no WiFi. So I have to use a good old Ethernet cable instead. WiFi is installed, but it does not work, for unknown reasons. I'm sure it'll be fixed some day, but when?
Actually apple has said quite a few times that built in ethernet isn't a big deal, which is why they've been content selling the usb->ethernet dongle for the air. The could simply have dropped it in the box for the macbook.
Besides how much longer do you think the building you're teaching at will go without wifi before they fix the issues? Not that long. In the 2006/07 school year there were quite a few building in my U that didn't have wifi or it wasn't working and now in the 2008/09 year all those buildings have it.
The ethernet problem is a short term problem that already has a solution, the firewire removal is a permanent problem that apple has not given us a solution for.
Just put the EC34 slot on, and you can add Firewire, card readers and more to your heart's delight.
Apple and even some of their fanboys on this forum like to say everything is wireless and wired standards are going the way of the Dodo, but the reality is a lot of people would beg to differ. The necessity for wired connections is becoming less common as wireless technologies move to higher bandwidths and better ranges, but there are some circumstances where wireless technologies just aren't practical(eg. large amounts of bandwidth). The lack of the EC34 slot seems rather odd insofar as that no matter how good you design a laptop invariably some users are going to want one more xyz port than was included. Instead of limiting the end users possibilities Apple ought to break down and include the EC34 slot so that the users can have eSATA , FW400/800, or some older port for an older application(RS232, parallel, etc.) if they want it.
People claim that Apple has to do this to prevent the cannibalization of the MBP sales, but even without the Expresscard/34 advantage the Macbook Pro has plenty of advantages over the Macbook such as a dramatically better graphics card, FW800, and a better resolution even for the 15" model. I think moving to the Geforce 9400 on the MB will do more to hurt the sales of the MBP then had they included Expresscard in the MB. Even Steve Jobs outright said that the graphics gap between the MB & MBP has dropped dramatically. That is practically an invitation for people to second guess whether they really need to buy the more profitable MBP. The old Intel graphics were so underpowered that a lot of games couldn't run well or in some cases at all despite the fact that the MB had a fairly good mobile processor.
Of course, only noobs use USB2 for hard drives.
Now there was somewhere where I thought Apple should have been ahead of the curve(a trailblazer in the industry). eSATA isn't some stillborn standard. I am shocked nobody asked about it in the Q&A. I can go to any Fry's and they will sell hundreds of external HDDs with eSATA every weekend. Even less specialized stores like Staples or Costco sell external drive that include eSATA. The potential number of people buying a Macbook that could immediately take advantage of the eSATA port is probably in the millions, which is more than I can say about Displayport. Furthermore, Apple could have integrated Target Disk mode with eSATA. ArsTechnica reported that Apple submitted a patent application for TDM through eSATA. Maybe it wasn't ready for primetime yet, but if it is ready that would have been a rational port to put in the place of the FW400 port. Displayport on the other hand, I am not so sure about.
How many monitors are there with Displayport? The Dell 2408 and their 3008 and this new Apple 24" LED display whenever it ships. Until you get past single link DVI where Displayport is supposed to provide better bandwidth I don't see the benefit of the move for Apple's customers. I never heard anyone complain that the Macbook didn't support resolutions beyond 1920x1200. The move at least on the Macbook seems slightly self serving insofar as AFAIK Apple is the only company selling mini-Displayport adapters whereas I can name at least two companies selling the Mini-DVI adapters that the old Macbook used(one for about half off the Apple adapter). Hopefully, Mini-Displayport catches on in some of the subcompacts so that Mini-DP cables and adapters are popular(cheaper than Apple) or at the very least someone other than Apple sees the profit potential and sells their own Mini-DP cables and adapters. Except for the pro market where resolutions beyond 1920x1200 exist I don't see a lot of demand for Displayport. For a laptop largely aimed at the consumer market DP seems a little overkill.