I keep posting links to cameras that use USB to show that video is moving away from FireWire. The only reason you wouldn't want to see the links is to not face the truth.
Moving and moved are two entirely different things. You must not work in video because you dont' understand how important this is. Panasonic is currently the only manufacturer with a prosumer camera that doesn't have firewire, and it's limted to model you posted. Sony for example just announced 3 new firewire based prosumer units. What will happen in 5 years should not reflect the state of computers now.
True, but not everyone finds an SSD worth the cost either, but Apple included a CTO option for Blu-Ray. Why couldn't they do the exact same thing with Blu-Ray they did with SSDs on the MacBook?
SSD fits into the MB the way it is. For Blu-ray Apple would have to license more DRM for OS X and could not have made the MB as thin as it is now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter
Apple could have released a notebook without a screen and some here would be falling all over themselves to justify it. The computer, like the iPhone, is lacking extremely basic features seen everywhere else that cost pennies on the dollar to implement.
Are you seriously equating the need of FireWire to the need of a screen.
If those basic features were really needed the MB nor the iPhone would sell as well as they do.
Quote:
Honestly, I'm beginning to think there are Apple plants in this forum with some of the irrational fanboyism.
Equating the need for FireWire to the need of a screen is more rational?
Someone asked me if I use FireWire. I listed my current peripherals. Out of 8 only 2 have FireWire. Those two offer USB as an option. Its a fact that you wish to ignore, most of the computer market only uses USB. In realizing this you call irrational.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
As for prices, funnily enough, I have spent the last 6 weeks looking at machines, prices, and making price/cost/benefit analysis. I draw you to;
Lecteur fin 8x DVD+/-RW Ã* chargement par fente, logiciel compris
This notebook isn't the same as the MacBook in most cases. It uses the santa rosa chipset, less cache, slower RAM, CCFL instead of LED screen. The only place this notebook is better than the MacBook is the GPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooped
$1700 13" 1.6 macBook air (no ports whatsoever)
Not true the MBA has a mini DisplayPort, USB port, and audio port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1
That they are eliminating the ports is not the key issue. Instead, they've provided no possible replacement technology to allow people to use the equipment that they specifically promoted. For years, Apple made the claim that buying a Mac was the way to make home movies and they offered the one-stop-shop for doing so (computer, software, peripherals... all able to work in concert). This is a distinctly different scenario than floppy drives, Apple Desktop Bus, printer ports, etc. None of those were designed to allow a Mac to do things that other computers couldn't also easily do.
This is overstating the current situation. Nearly all peripherals offer another option other than FireWire. The list of USB only devices is much higher than any that even offer FireWire as an option.
Quote:
Ironically, about every Windows machine still has FW compatibility of some type or another either by a 1394 port, Cardbus/ExpressCard slot, or even the converter cable (XP only so far). Not one of those options is possible with the new MacBook.
90% of the PC market does not use FireWire. Most of the PC's that offer FireWire are using the mini 4 pin variant which is nearly useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
Everyone knew that FW was in a transition to 3200 and that it would be in competition with USB 3 in late 2009/early 2010. As I've said, if Apple - who has chaired the move to 3200 - sees no future for Firewire, they should say so and prepare everyone to move to something else.
Of course, only noobs use USB2 for hard drives. So if Firewire goes, we need eSata.
The overwhelming majority of the PC market uses USB for hard drives. There is no such thing as a flash drive for FireWire.
Quote:
With the way you all go on and on about it, defending it against everyone who has been using it for years and people who wanted it that are non-professionals you'd think that you're actually happy it's gone.
Were you sitting there thinking "f*** if apple takes firewire off the macbook I'll finally buy one," because all these defendants are treating it like a small victory.
You guys are taking a George Bush "with us or against us" stance on this, without taking into account the reality of the computer market.
I would rather FireWire won over USB. But this is not the reality. The overwhelming majority of the computer market uses USB - the overwhelming majority of computer peripherals are made to interface through USB. That is the reality.
Quote:
If someone who likes the new macbook and intends to get it could explain to me how their computer has been strengthened by the lack of firewire, I am all ears.
For most people buying the MacBook it won't matter because they've never used FireWire and never will. Or because most peripherals are either USB only or include USB along with FireWire.
Ultimately this strengthens Apple because it forces anyone who wants to use FireWire will have to buy the more expensive machine.
Actually, most "consumer" notebooks do not come with FW.
That's not true pretty much any 599 and up consumer laptop has 4-pin firewire 400 on it. Unless you're talking about netbooks you must not have looked at other manufacturers.
My guess is that OS X lacks HDCP, and Apple is either hesitant about building that into OS X, or it's such a large job that it's best implemented into Snow Leopard rather than released as a Leopard patch.
Either way, you can buy HD content through iTunes. If you're dead set on watching HD shows/movies on a notebook, there you go.
Perhaps, Blu-Ray playback will be a new exclusive feature of iDVD in Snow Leopard and we will see a CTO for Blu-Ray on the Mac Pro and the Mac Pro in January, but the argument that you can buy HD content through iTunes I find a really lame canard. The "HD" iTunes movies are only 720p as opposed to 1080p and for all the talk about how great the selection of films are I even after ~2 years since they started selling videos I feel underwhelmed. There are countless films that are top sellers in Bluray on Amazon that aren't even an option on iTunes. I couldn't find any hard numbers that are recent on the number of films on iTunes, but if iTunes has more options than Blu-ray it isn't by a lot and at least in my subjective judgement the iTunes collection of films leaves a lot to be desired.
Many laptops now have a USB/eSATA port. Apple could have been progressive and utilized this features.
Jobs is fond of saying "we make the best computers available" but honestly I haven't been impressed with Mac in quite some time. I mean they look good but if you look at the overall picture and from the perspective of "computing". Apple still up to the same "style over substance" shenanigans.
People just need to get an extra $500 together and buy a $1999 MacBook Pro. It's really that simple. If it's so important that people refuse to give up their FireWire devices, then they need to bite the bullet and upgrade.
Show me a 13" macbook pro from 1999 and I will buy it. I do not want or need a larger screen or heavier computer. Plenty of people have said this, firewire is not a $500 upgrade, that is a separate computer with many other things I don't want.
If someone who likes the new macbook and intends to get it could explain to me how their computer has been strengthened by the lack of firewire, I am all ears.
Well, I like very much the new design and the seemingly more solid construction but as I explained in previous posts I am not going to buy one. However, seeing the internals in the AI pictures, it seems that the package is very tight and probably FW was just impossible with the new internal design.
Hopefully, by next year we will see USB3 (where is this actually?) on the MB...
Many laptops now have a USB/eSATA port. Apple could have been progressive and utilized this features.
Yeah I wonder what Apple thinks of eSATA. Apple has never really been a company to put every port option on its notebooks. I can imagine from a design perspective they want to consolidate it down to a minimum. Which likely why the MacBook now only has USB.
Perhaps they believe USB 3 and FireWire 3200 are the most viable interfaces to support.
Quote:
Jobs is fond of saying "we make the best computers available" but honestly I haven't been impressed with Mac in quite some time. I mean they look good but if you look at the overall picture and from the perspective of "computing". Apple still up to the same "style over substance" shenanigans.
Apple being able to get Intel and Nvidia to design special chips for them that add great performance is pretty impressive. Especially in light of the Macs small marketshare.
I agree. Developing B-R software that runs and burns the media is not as easy as some people think. It's not like Apple can just sell the drives and "bang, there it is!"
I guess toast 9 is a master piece then. Blu-ray support and software that read and burn bdr for like what? 70 bucks? I've used blu-ray drives on the mac pro as well as the lacie one on a mbp. It isn't complicated. I'm not saying that apple needed to include it this time around but you and the guy you quote are trying to make it sound like a mystical art, it's not. It's already here, toast can do it (and gives you the plugin) and adobe's encore can do it.
They probably just didn't offer it because like steve said licensing and because none of the slot load drives for br are that thin yet. I imagine it'll be a bto on the next mac pro.
People don't have to wait though, you can get one for a mac pro for less than 250 now.
The Apple fanbois around here really need to take their tongues outta Stevo's ass and step back from the glory that is Jobs. Some of you people would swallow just about anything Steve threw at you and believe it was for your own good.
Omitting FireWire was not a forward thinking move, It was a cost cutting, penny pinching, upselling exercise plain and simple. Some of you will not remember a time when Apple removed audio ports from their laptops. Others will remember the uproar over that move and the subsequent back pedalling by Apple. Any of you care to live without audio I/O now? Didn't think so.
The MacBook is certainly not a 'consumer' machine, not at this price. It is, if anything a PROsumer device with a price tag to match and that is why the lack of FireWire is really pissing people off. There are plenty of 'consumer' machines out there with reasonable price tags and specs to match which do not cost anything like the MacBook. The reason the MacBook is priced the way it is is because of its enormously expensive production costs and practices. The thing is way overcooked. As for USB being 'as good as' or a worthy alternative to FireWire... USB is craptastic for audio work and even worse for video. There is not one single digital video camera available that can be operated through USB as can be through FireWire. USB video importing is far from reliable also.
Oh, and before you say that some of us are being too emotional and not thinking logically about this whole debacle, well I apologize for being a human being and not operating just like that pretty MacBook. You can go recharge your Li-ion brains now.
SSD fits into the MB the way it is. For Blu-ray Apple would have to license more DRM for OS X and could not have made the MB as thin as it is now.
Panasonic released a 9mm Bluray drive at CES nine months ago! You can order one and put it in your Macbook today. Unless Apple has moved to 7mm this argument that there are no Bluray drives that can fit in the chassis is a canard by Apple apologists. Furthermore, why was making the MB thinner such a priority? I didn't see a lot of people saying they wouldn't buy the MB because by gosh it is a few mm too thick!
I realize that MacOS currently doesn't support Bluray playback, but Apple can pad the price of the drive to cover the licensing for the playback software. There are companies that are selling bluray playback software for Windows less than $100 so add $100 plus the cost of the drive plus a 20-30% profit margin and finally round up to the near $50 and offer it as a CTO option. A BD-ROM option would probably be cheaper than an SSD option! While it wouldn't be a popular option, I have a feeling neither is the 128GB SSD either, but Apple is including that option.
The Apple fanbois around here really need to take their tongues outta Stevo's ass and step back from the glory that is Jobs. Some of you people would swallow just about anything Steve threw at you and believe it was for your own good.
Omitting FireWire was not a forward thinking move, It was a cost cutting, penny pinching, upselling exercise plain and simple. Some of you will not remember a time when Apple removed audio ports from their laptops. Others will remember the uproar over that move and the subsequent back pedalling by Apple. Any of you care to live without audio I/O now? Didn't think so.
The MacBook is certainly not a 'consumer' machine, not at this price. It is, if anything a PROsumer device with a price tag to match and that is why the lack of FireWire is really pissing people off. There are plenty of 'consumer' machines out there with reasonable price tags and specs to match which do not cost anything like the MacBook. The reason the MacBook is priced the way it is is because of its enormously expensive production costs and practices. The thing is way overcooked. As for USB being 'as good as' or a worthy alternative to FireWire... USB is craptastic for audio work and even worse for video. There is not one single digital video camera available that can be operated through USB as can be through FireWire. USB video importing is far from reliable also.
Oh, and before you say that some of us are being too emotional and not thinking logically about this whole debacle, well I apologize for being a human being and not operating just like that pretty MacBook. You can go recharge your Li-ion brains now.
Equating the need for FireWire to the need of a screen is more rational?
I was using an extreme example to illustrate how far some will go to justify anything Apple does as correct and good for the market. You're ostensibly an intelligent person who should have picked that up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
You guys are taking a George Bush "with us or against us" stance on this, without taking into account the reality of the computer market.
I could say that you are taking a George Bush "nothing we (Apple) do is wrong" stance on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
Ultimately this strengthens Apple because it forces anyone who wants to use FireWire will have to buy the more expensive machine.
Except that Apple only provides FW on a 15" notebook. If they had a model that was 13" with FW that was also more expensive, you'd have a point.
The Apple fanbois around here really need to take their tongues outta Stevo's ass and step back from the glory that is Jobs. Some of you people would swallow just about anything Steve threw at you and believe it was for your own good.
Not really sure why a civilized conversation has to degrade into personal insults. Outside of the point that you have no evidence or facts to back up your position.
Quote:
The MacBook is certainly not a 'consumer' machine, not at this price. It is, if anything a PROsumer device with a price tag to match and that is why the lack of FireWire is really pissing people off. There are plenty of 'consumer' machines out there with reasonable price tags and specs to match which do not cost anything like the MacBook. The reason the MacBook is priced the way it is is because of its enormously expensive production costs and practices. The thing is way overcooked. As for USB being 'as good as' or a worthy alternative to FireWire... USB is craptastic for audio work and even worse for video. There is not one single digital video camera available that can be operated through USB as can be through FireWire. USB video importing is far from reliable also.
People have been giving this PC with better specs and lower price cliche for years now. It looks like a tired worn out excuse in the face of the fact that Mac sales are growing faster than the sales of these supposedly better and cheaper PCs.
Ultimately we will have to see if MacBook sales suffer from the lack of FireWire, even though most of the market does not use FireWire.
You lay fanboy insults all you want. But in the end that is what it comes down to.
I was using an extreme example to illustrate how far some will go to justify anything Apple does as correct and good for the market. You're ostensibly an intelligent person who should have picked that up.
That extreme example is so ridiculous its not a good example.
Quote:
I could say that you are taking a George Bush "nothing we (Apple) do is wrong" stance on this.
I never said Apple can do no wrong. I've said several times I would prefer they keep FireWire until a suitable replacement comes. At the same time looking at the reality of the computer market I can understand this choice.
Will most people stop buying MacBooks because it has no FireWire?
Quote:
Except that Apple only provides FW on a 15" notebook. If they had a model that was 13" with FW that was also more expensive, you'd have a point.
My point is that the 15" is the more expensive machine.
Not really sure why a civilized conversation has to degrade into personal insults. Outside of the point that you have no evidence or facts to back up your position.
Certainly not a personal insult... unless you consider yourself a fanboy?
Evidence? Facts? What are you looking for? I'm giving you my personal experience just like many others here who share my concerns.
Quote:
people have been giving this PC with better specs and lower price cliche for years now. It looks like a tired worn out excuse in the face of the fact that Mac sales are growing faster than the sales of these supposedly better and cheaper PCs.
I did not mention anything about a PC with better specs. I was alluding to any consumer PC with decent specs and a price tag to match.
The MacBook may be slightly better specced than most but it also has a much higher price tag. Mac sales may be growing fast but PCs still outsell Macs by at least 15 to 1. You may not like it, I really don't either but Apple still have a hell of a long climb.
we will have to see if MacBook sales suffer from the lack of FireWire, even though most of the market does not use FireWire.
Where is the evidence to show that most of the 'market' do not use FireWire? How do you know for sure what the majority do or do not use? Maybe if they knew what they were missing then the 'majority' would want FireWire on their fancy prosumer notebook with large price tag to match.
Sales have already suffered. I'm not buying and neither are dozens of others who have said so publicly on these and other boards, never mind those who have quietly read and decided not to buy because FireWire looks 'pretty darn useful now that you mention it.'
Where is the evidence to show that most of the 'market' do not use FireWire? How do you know for sure what the majority do or do not use? Maybe if they knew what they were missing then the 'majority' would want FireWire on their fancy prosumer notebook with large price tag to match.
Sales have already suffered. I'm not buying and neither are dozens of others who have said so publicly on these and other boards, never mind those who have quietly read and decided not to buy because FireWire looks 'pretty darn useful now that you mention it.'
Apple is the only OEM that so widely supports FireWire. Intel doesn't support FireWire at all. Its possible to opt for FW most PC users don't see the need and do not opt for it. This is all commonly known.
Looking at the current state of peripheral market most people can get along fine without ever using a FW device. Its impossible to only use FW and never use USB.
Here again is my own list of peripherals and their interfaces. I actually hadn't paid much attention before to the fact that so much is USB. Outside of the hard drive or DVD burner, most other peripherals don't offer a FW option at all.
- Hard Drive (FireWire 400/800, High Speed USB, eSATA)
Comments
I keep posting links to cameras that use USB to show that video is moving away from FireWire. The only reason you wouldn't want to see the links is to not face the truth.
Moving and moved are two entirely different things. You must not work in video because you dont' understand how important this is. Panasonic is currently the only manufacturer with a prosumer camera that doesn't have firewire, and it's limted to model you posted. Sony for example just announced 3 new firewire based prosumer units. What will happen in 5 years should not reflect the state of computers now.
True, but not everyone finds an SSD worth the cost either, but Apple included a CTO option for Blu-Ray. Why couldn't they do the exact same thing with Blu-Ray they did with SSDs on the MacBook?
SSD fits into the MB the way it is. For Blu-ray Apple would have to license more DRM for OS X and could not have made the MB as thin as it is now.
Apple could have released a notebook without a screen and some here would be falling all over themselves to justify it. The computer, like the iPhone, is lacking extremely basic features seen everywhere else that cost pennies on the dollar to implement.
Are you seriously equating the need of FireWire to the need of a screen.
If those basic features were really needed the MB nor the iPhone would sell as well as they do.
Honestly, I'm beginning to think there are Apple plants in this forum with some of the irrational fanboyism.
Equating the need for FireWire to the need of a screen is more rational?
Someone asked me if I use FireWire. I listed my current peripherals. Out of 8 only 2 have FireWire. Those two offer USB as an option. Its a fact that you wish to ignore, most of the computer market only uses USB. In realizing this you call irrational.
As for prices, funnily enough, I have spent the last 6 weeks looking at machines, prices, and making price/cost/benefit analysis. I draw you to;
Dell - XPS 1330
Processeur Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T8100 (2,10 GHz, mémoire cache L2 de 3 Mo, FSB 800 MHz)
Windows Vista® �dition Familiale Premium SP1 authentique - Français
Ecran WXGA (1280x800) 13,3 pouces CCFL (220 nits) avec TrueLife™
nVidia® GeForce® 8400M GS de 128 Mo
4096 Mo de mémoire bicanale SDRAM DDR2 667 MHz [2x2048]
Disque dur SATA de 320 Go (5400 tpm)
Lecteur fin 8x DVD+/-RW Ã* chargement par fente, logiciel compris
This notebook isn't the same as the MacBook in most cases. It uses the santa rosa chipset, less cache, slower RAM, CCFL instead of LED screen. The only place this notebook is better than the MacBook is the GPU.
$1700 13" 1.6 macBook air (no ports whatsoever)
Not true the MBA has a mini DisplayPort, USB port, and audio port.
That they are eliminating the ports is not the key issue. Instead, they've provided no possible replacement technology to allow people to use the equipment that they specifically promoted. For years, Apple made the claim that buying a Mac was the way to make home movies and they offered the one-stop-shop for doing so (computer, software, peripherals... all able to work in concert). This is a distinctly different scenario than floppy drives, Apple Desktop Bus, printer ports, etc. None of those were designed to allow a Mac to do things that other computers couldn't also easily do.
This is overstating the current situation. Nearly all peripherals offer another option other than FireWire. The list of USB only devices is much higher than any that even offer FireWire as an option.
Ironically, about every Windows machine still has FW compatibility of some type or another either by a 1394 port, Cardbus/ExpressCard slot, or even the converter cable (XP only so far). Not one of those options is possible with the new MacBook.
90% of the PC market does not use FireWire. Most of the PC's that offer FireWire are using the mini 4 pin variant which is nearly useless.
Everyone knew that FW was in a transition to 3200 and that it would be in competition with USB 3 in late 2009/early 2010. As I've said, if Apple - who has chaired the move to 3200 - sees no future for Firewire, they should say so and prepare everyone to move to something else.
Of course, only noobs use USB2 for hard drives.
The overwhelming majority of the PC market uses USB for hard drives. There is no such thing as a flash drive for FireWire.
With the way you all go on and on about it, defending it against everyone who has been using it for years and people who wanted it that are non-professionals you'd think that you're actually happy it's gone.
Were you sitting there thinking "f*** if apple takes firewire off the macbook I'll finally buy one," because all these defendants are treating it like a small victory.
You guys are taking a George Bush "with us or against us" stance on this, without taking into account the reality of the computer market.
I would rather FireWire won over USB. But this is not the reality. The overwhelming majority of the computer market uses USB - the overwhelming majority of computer peripherals are made to interface through USB. That is the reality.
If someone who likes the new macbook and intends to get it could explain to me how their computer has been strengthened by the lack of firewire, I am all ears.
For most people buying the MacBook it won't matter because they've never used FireWire and never will. Or because most peripherals are either USB only or include USB along with FireWire.
Ultimately this strengthens Apple because it forces anyone who wants to use FireWire will have to buy the more expensive machine.
Actually, most "consumer" notebooks do not come with FW.
That's not true pretty much any 599 and up consumer laptop has 4-pin firewire 400 on it. Unless you're talking about netbooks you must not have looked at other manufacturers.
My guess is that OS X lacks HDCP, and Apple is either hesitant about building that into OS X, or it's such a large job that it's best implemented into Snow Leopard rather than released as a Leopard patch.
Either way, you can buy HD content through iTunes. If you're dead set on watching HD shows/movies on a notebook, there you go.
Perhaps, Blu-Ray playback will be a new exclusive feature of iDVD in Snow Leopard and we will see a CTO for Blu-Ray on the Mac Pro and the Mac Pro in January, but the argument that you can buy HD content through iTunes I find a really lame canard. The "HD" iTunes movies are only 720p as opposed to 1080p and for all the talk about how great the selection of films are I even after ~2 years since they started selling videos I feel underwhelmed. There are countless films that are top sellers in Bluray on Amazon that aren't even an option on iTunes. I couldn't find any hard numbers that are recent on the number of films on iTunes, but if iTunes has more options than Blu-ray it isn't by a lot and at least in my subjective judgement the iTunes collection of films leaves a lot to be desired.
Many laptops now have a USB/eSATA port. Apple could have been progressive and utilized this features.
Jobs is fond of saying "we make the best computers available" but honestly I haven't been impressed with Mac in quite some time. I mean they look good but if you look at the overall picture and from the perspective of "computing". Apple still up to the same "style over substance" shenanigans.
People just need to get an extra $500 together and buy a $1999 MacBook Pro. It's really that simple. If it's so important that people refuse to give up their FireWire devices, then they need to bite the bullet and upgrade.
Show me a 13" macbook pro from 1999 and I will buy it. I do not want or need a larger screen or heavier computer. Plenty of people have said this, firewire is not a $500 upgrade, that is a separate computer with many other things I don't want.
If someone who likes the new macbook and intends to get it could explain to me how their computer has been strengthened by the lack of firewire, I am all ears.
Well, I like very much the new design and the seemingly more solid construction but as I explained in previous posts I am not going to buy one. However, seeing the internals in the AI pictures, it seems that the package is very tight and probably FW was just impossible with the new internal design.
Hopefully, by next year we will see USB3 (where is this actually?) on the MB...
Many laptops now have a USB/eSATA port. Apple could have been progressive and utilized this features.
Yeah I wonder what Apple thinks of eSATA. Apple has never really been a company to put every port option on its notebooks. I can imagine from a design perspective they want to consolidate it down to a minimum. Which likely why the MacBook now only has USB.
Perhaps they believe USB 3 and FireWire 3200 are the most viable interfaces to support.
Jobs is fond of saying "we make the best computers available" but honestly I haven't been impressed with Mac in quite some time. I mean they look good but if you look at the overall picture and from the perspective of "computing". Apple still up to the same "style over substance" shenanigans.
Apple being able to get Intel and Nvidia to design special chips for them that add great performance is pretty impressive. Especially in light of the Macs small marketshare.
Hopefully, by next year we will see USB3 (where is this actually?) on the MB...
From what I've read late 2009 to early 2010.
I agree. Developing B-R software that runs and burns the media is not as easy as some people think. It's not like Apple can just sell the drives and "bang, there it is!"
I guess toast 9 is a master piece then. Blu-ray support and software that read and burn bdr for like what? 70 bucks? I've used blu-ray drives on the mac pro as well as the lacie one on a mbp. It isn't complicated. I'm not saying that apple needed to include it this time around but you and the guy you quote are trying to make it sound like a mystical art, it's not. It's already here, toast can do it (and gives you the plugin) and adobe's encore can do it.
They probably just didn't offer it because like steve said licensing and because none of the slot load drives for br are that thin yet. I imagine it'll be a bto on the next mac pro.
People don't have to wait though, you can get one for a mac pro for less than 250 now.
Omitting FireWire was not a forward thinking move, It was a cost cutting, penny pinching, upselling exercise plain and simple. Some of you will not remember a time when Apple removed audio ports from their laptops. Others will remember the uproar over that move and the subsequent back pedalling by Apple. Any of you care to live without audio I/O now? Didn't think so.
The MacBook is certainly not a 'consumer' machine, not at this price. It is, if anything a PROsumer device with a price tag to match and that is why the lack of FireWire is really pissing people off. There are plenty of 'consumer' machines out there with reasonable price tags and specs to match which do not cost anything like the MacBook. The reason the MacBook is priced the way it is is because of its enormously expensive production costs and practices. The thing is way overcooked. As for USB being 'as good as' or a worthy alternative to FireWire... USB is craptastic for audio work and even worse for video. There is not one single digital video camera available that can be operated through USB as can be through FireWire. USB video importing is far from reliable also.
Oh, and before you say that some of us are being too emotional and not thinking logically about this whole debacle, well I apologize for being a human being and not operating just like that pretty MacBook. You can go recharge your Li-ion brains now.
From what I've read late 2009 to early 2010.
Last year there was talk about 2008. What happened in the meantime?
SSD fits into the MB the way it is. For Blu-ray Apple would have to license more DRM for OS X and could not have made the MB as thin as it is now.
Panasonic released a 9mm Bluray drive at CES nine months ago! You can order one and put it in your Macbook today. Unless Apple has moved to 7mm this argument that there are no Bluray drives that can fit in the chassis is a canard by Apple apologists. Furthermore, why was making the MB thinner such a priority? I didn't see a lot of people saying they wouldn't buy the MB because by gosh it is a few mm too thick!
I realize that MacOS currently doesn't support Bluray playback, but Apple can pad the price of the drive to cover the licensing for the playback software. There are companies that are selling bluray playback software for Windows less than $100 so add $100 plus the cost of the drive plus a 20-30% profit margin and finally round up to the near $50 and offer it as a CTO option. A BD-ROM option would probably be cheaper than an SSD option! While it wouldn't be a popular option, I have a feeling neither is the 128GB SSD either, but Apple is including that option.
The Apple fanbois around here really need to take their tongues outta Stevo's ass and step back from the glory that is Jobs. Some of you people would swallow just about anything Steve threw at you and believe it was for your own good.
Omitting FireWire was not a forward thinking move, It was a cost cutting, penny pinching, upselling exercise plain and simple. Some of you will not remember a time when Apple removed audio ports from their laptops. Others will remember the uproar over that move and the subsequent back pedalling by Apple. Any of you care to live without audio I/O now? Didn't think so.
The MacBook is certainly not a 'consumer' machine, not at this price. It is, if anything a PROsumer device with a price tag to match and that is why the lack of FireWire is really pissing people off. There are plenty of 'consumer' machines out there with reasonable price tags and specs to match which do not cost anything like the MacBook. The reason the MacBook is priced the way it is is because of its enormously expensive production costs and practices. The thing is way overcooked. As for USB being 'as good as' or a worthy alternative to FireWire... USB is craptastic for audio work and even worse for video. There is not one single digital video camera available that can be operated through USB as can be through FireWire. USB video importing is far from reliable also.
Oh, and before you say that some of us are being too emotional and not thinking logically about this whole debacle, well I apologize for being a human being and not operating just like that pretty MacBook. You can go recharge your Li-ion brains now.
I completely agree. well put.
Equating the need for FireWire to the need of a screen is more rational?
I was using an extreme example to illustrate how far some will go to justify anything Apple does as correct and good for the market. You're ostensibly an intelligent person who should have picked that up.
You guys are taking a George Bush "with us or against us" stance on this, without taking into account the reality of the computer market.
I could say that you are taking a George Bush "nothing we (Apple) do is wrong" stance on this.
Ultimately this strengthens Apple because it forces anyone who wants to use FireWire will have to buy the more expensive machine.
Except that Apple only provides FW on a 15" notebook. If they had a model that was 13" with FW that was also more expensive, you'd have a point.
The Apple fanbois around here really need to take their tongues outta Stevo's ass and step back from the glory that is Jobs. Some of you people would swallow just about anything Steve threw at you and believe it was for your own good.
Not really sure why a civilized conversation has to degrade into personal insults. Outside of the point that you have no evidence or facts to back up your position.
The MacBook is certainly not a 'consumer' machine, not at this price. It is, if anything a PROsumer device with a price tag to match and that is why the lack of FireWire is really pissing people off. There are plenty of 'consumer' machines out there with reasonable price tags and specs to match which do not cost anything like the MacBook. The reason the MacBook is priced the way it is is because of its enormously expensive production costs and practices. The thing is way overcooked. As for USB being 'as good as' or a worthy alternative to FireWire... USB is craptastic for audio work and even worse for video. There is not one single digital video camera available that can be operated through USB as can be through FireWire. USB video importing is far from reliable also.
People have been giving this PC with better specs and lower price cliche for years now. It looks like a tired worn out excuse in the face of the fact that Mac sales are growing faster than the sales of these supposedly better and cheaper PCs.
Ultimately we will have to see if MacBook sales suffer from the lack of FireWire, even though most of the market does not use FireWire.
You lay fanboy insults all you want. But in the end that is what it comes down to.
I was using an extreme example to illustrate how far some will go to justify anything Apple does as correct and good for the market. You're ostensibly an intelligent person who should have picked that up.
That extreme example is so ridiculous its not a good example.
I could say that you are taking a George Bush "nothing we (Apple) do is wrong" stance on this.
I never said Apple can do no wrong. I've said several times I would prefer they keep FireWire until a suitable replacement comes. At the same time looking at the reality of the computer market I can understand this choice.
Will most people stop buying MacBooks because it has no FireWire?
Except that Apple only provides FW on a 15" notebook. If they had a model that was 13" with FW that was also more expensive, you'd have a point.
My point is that the 15" is the more expensive machine.
people aren't using firewire.
Did my Western Digital drive purchase get counted as a USB drive for a Firewire drive? I
use it with my FW connection but my phone has never wrang with someone asking me
just how I hooked up my drive.
My Canon ZR950 has USB but I cannot transfer video data over this connection.
Apple still makes computers ..we still need to see functionality even if that functionality is only used every now and then (Target Disk Mode).
Premium computers should come with premium performance. USB only laptops at @ $1300 are the antithesis of good price/performance.
Not really sure why a civilized conversation has to degrade into personal insults. Outside of the point that you have no evidence or facts to back up your position.
Certainly not a personal insult... unless you consider yourself a fanboy?
Evidence? Facts? What are you looking for? I'm giving you my personal experience just like many others here who share my concerns.
people have been giving this PC with better specs and lower price cliche for years now. It looks like a tired worn out excuse in the face of the fact that Mac sales are growing faster than the sales of these supposedly better and cheaper PCs.
I did not mention anything about a PC with better specs.
The MacBook may be slightly better specced than most but it also has a much higher price tag. Mac sales may be growing fast but PCs still outsell Macs by at least 15 to 1. You may not like it, I really don't either but Apple still have a hell of a long climb.
LOOK HERE
we will have to see if MacBook sales suffer from the lack of FireWire, even though most of the market does not use FireWire.
Where is the evidence to show that most of the 'market' do not use FireWire? How do you know for sure what the majority do or do not use? Maybe if they knew what they were missing then the 'majority' would want FireWire on their fancy prosumer notebook with large price tag to match.
Sales have already suffered. I'm not buying and neither are dozens of others who have said so publicly on these and other boards, never mind those who have quietly read and decided not to buy because FireWire looks 'pretty darn useful now that you mention it.'
Where is the evidence to show that most of the 'market' do not use FireWire? How do you know for sure what the majority do or do not use? Maybe if they knew what they were missing then the 'majority' would want FireWire on their fancy prosumer notebook with large price tag to match.
Sales have already suffered. I'm not buying and neither are dozens of others who have said so publicly on these and other boards, never mind those who have quietly read and decided not to buy because FireWire looks 'pretty darn useful now that you mention it.'
Apple is the only OEM that so widely supports FireWire. Intel doesn't support FireWire at all. Its possible to opt for FW most PC users don't see the need and do not opt for it. This is all commonly known.
Looking at the current state of peripheral market most people can get along fine without ever using a FW device. Its impossible to only use FW and never use USB.
Here again is my own list of peripherals and their interfaces. I actually hadn't paid much attention before to the fact that so much is USB. Outside of the hard drive or DVD burner, most other peripherals don't offer a FW option at all.
- Hard Drive (FireWire 400/800, High Speed USB, eSATA)
- DVD Burner (FireWire, USB)
- TV Tuner (USB)
- Digital Camera (USB)
- USB Flash Drive (USB)
- Printer (High Speed USB)
- iPod Video (USB)
- iPhone 3G (USB)