Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire

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  • Reply 361 of 1665
    Oh brother, that guy writing the emails to Steve Jobs is totally missing the point. It's not just about the FireWire camcorders. It's not just about the FireWire hard drives, either. Most importantly, it's about Target FireWire mode which can not be replicated in any easy manner!! Target FireWire mode was the de facto and superior way to do troubleshooting or repairs on a drive, along with the quickest & most seamless way to do Migration Assistant.



    So really, it's about ALL THREE of those issues: (1) FireWire camcorders, (2) FireWire hard drives, (3) Target FireWire mode.



    For those of you that are lamenting the loss of FireWire (like I am), be SURE to post your comment's on Apple's feedback page here:

    http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

  • Reply 362 of 1665
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    However, more than half, i.e., 160, of them were posted by 11 members, i.e., those who submitted 10 or more comments. Obvious it appears that most of the remaining authors posted at least twice or more.



    I would also like to point out that most of the negs come from the same bunch of naysayers that appear virtually on every Apple/Mac story published on AppleInsider. Further examination shows that many don't have the Mac or Apple Product that they are complaining about.



    It is too bad that we don't have at least one news site much like the iTunes store where you can only review/comment on things that you actually purchased/own.



    So let me get this right:

    1.) You aleady own the new MacBook?

    2.) You need to own a newMacBook to comment on a missing firewire port?
  • Reply 363 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tecknojoe View Post


    but it wouldn't have hurt apple to wait until that day because they could have avoided all of these "real professionals" who can afford a "real camera" and not a macbook pro from complaining so bad.



    Hay bozo, its the cheap cameras that have firewire these days as they are using legacy technology.



    All the "hip" (aka Apple like) real cameras now tend not to use Firewire. So if you use that logic, they should have left the firewire on their cheap Macbook, and taken it off the MBP after all, if you can afford a new HD camera that doesn't require FW, you can also afford the new MBP eh?



    The simple truth is that there is a an established need for Firewire and it was a bad move my Apple to remove it without some other workable solution. If Apple had taken the firewire off the Macbook but had produce an adapter so that we could still use it over ethernet, they I would have been okay with that. Actually I would have been a little miffed because now I would need an adapter, but okay. Having absolutely no way to do firewire just pisses me off, and excludes me from ever being able to upgrade my current Macbook to the new one.
  • Reply 364 of 1665
    <delete me>
  • Reply 365 of 1665
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,422member
    so will this "migration" software help not having FW, can you do TDM or backup using ethernet?? so when i get a new mac, how do i make that slick transfer to the new mac??
  • Reply 366 of 1665
    zanshinzanshin Posts: 350member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    So really, it's about ALL THREE of those issues: (1) FireWire camcorders, (2) FireWire hard drives, (3) Target FireWire mode.



    Don't forget flatbed scanners. I never had anything but slow performance from one that used USB, probably because they cheaped out and used USB 1.1 or something rather than USB2. FW400 was a Godsend to replace connecting scanners to any Mac with a SCSI cable.
  • Reply 367 of 1665
    So firewire is a Professional feature? Not likely. It's not desired by switchers because on their PCs they never had, thus, never understood the benefits of having it. You can't miss something you've never had, so I understand that angle, sort of....read on.



    But this is my heartburn, this is similar to the Auto industry and the Wireless Telephone industry, you treat new and target customers so well, and spend so much money and effort getting customers that you lose site of the paying customers [and how important they are] that have gotten where you are. Auto makers will market the crap out of cars and sell for any price to get you, but rape you on maintenance with overpriced parts and unchecked labor rates. Cellphone companies put so much effort into the $1-new-cellphone-on-contract deal that when you need a replacement phone the only way is to renew for not 1, but 2 more years to get a RAZR for $100. [I am trying not to rant, but prove background and details to support my argument]



    All that have posted are correct, Apple added USB support in ipods in 2003 to increase sales, fine, understood, I think that was smart. It broadened the appeal and marketability of the iPod.[Which created the Halo effect] However, to this day I never understood why they *removed* FW support. There are 30 'pins' in that connector, you're telling me 6 of them couldn't be retained to *benefit* those with Macs and make their experience better?? "Syncing your iDevice on a Mac will take ?% less time, a reason to get a mac"! Use it as a marketing tactic!





    It blew me away how quickly I could sync my 3rd Gen iPod on my mac, very fast. Then my frustration when I so-called "upgraded" to a 5th Gen Video model, took forever to load it!



    So back on point, New Alum Macbook with no FW.

    I think the true reason is Apple trying to create a line in the new blurred portable product set, albeit how artificial it is. Firewire is important to the user *base* of Macintosh users. We are heavily invested from the technical, financially and even now emotion angles this presents. We have come to depend on the ease of TDM, true throughput and ubiquity of the connection across all Apple hardware. We are invested in the actual FW hardware we have purchased. from Ext HDDs, Optical drives, and A/V peripherals[cameras, Audio Controls, etc]. And our emotional tie being that we are upset that one of the backbone features of our beloved Macs is now gone on a product poised to be the "affordable Mac Portable".



    So, I think Apple has made a huge mistake and hope that is it's remedied in future refreshes of the Macbook.

    I was planning on buying a Macbook Alum for my wife and a MBP for myself. Now I think I may hold off and use my wallet as a tool of protest since both our machines work well and I was only upgrading for the "new factor".



    We'll see. I hope Jobs and Ive are paying attention. Firewire may not be popular with Switchers because they don't know what it is, but unfortunately for Apple Switchers aren't the only ones buying macs.
  • Reply 368 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Leonard View Post


    Because they are whiney. Most of them are people who make a life with this stuff (which should pay good or their selling themselves short) and are too bloody cheap to shell out a few hundred more dollars for a more capable Macbook Pro. There is only a small percentage with a valid gripe. But those with a valid gripe are just a victim of tehnology moving on.



    And you as a long-time Mac user must have lived through the ADB to USB and SCSI to Firewire transition, so you must have encountered this before.



    Technology moves on, standards change. Ce la Vie. That's just the way things go.



    Yes I have. And point well taken. I guess it's the ol' "just 1 more year Apple. Just give us 1 more year". Hee hee. But it's also the fact Apple has been used by many a number of video editors/students/pros/casual users, that this is quite a jolt. I mean it was a huge part of why a lot of film students used Apple. It was a solid relatively cheap way to start on the road to "Pro". I loooove the design of the new MB. But dammit, no FW really curbed my purchase. 1 port cost Apple $1599.99. It's as simple as that. I may buy a refurb Pro, but I'll just wait it out and see what Apple does. And no way in hell am I switching to the other side.



    If this FW wasn't a problem this page would have been 2 pages long.... but it's still growing. I'm depressed about the loss of Matte, but this is a kick to the groin.
  • Reply 369 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post


    First Apple I every program was Apple IIc it didn't have Firewire didn't miss it! I have a Mac Mini that I owned for 8 Months I never used Firewire since I got it. All my printers are networked by connected to a Netgear Wireless Print Server (replacing with a 1TB Time Capsule set to 802.11n ONLY so I have 802.11n on majority of my network) I have three HP Photosmart 8450 and just got the HP C7180 last month. I got a Apple Airport Extreme with 802.11n and Airport Express with 802.11n. I want to get two 1TB Time Capsules next month. I got the optical going to my Logitech Z-5500 and last I got two Seagate External Drives one 750GB and other 1TB plus I still have my 16GB iPhone connected to USB 2.0 port. I really don't use the Firewire!



    Low end user: No firewire use...



    How do you dare filling this thread with noobies ideas...



    switch on your wifi popcorn setup as you like



    but let users relying on Firewire express their sour regrets......



    give us a break ok?
  • Reply 370 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coasterjob View Post


    [...]We'll see. I hope Jobs and Ive are paying attention. Firewire may not be popular with Switchers because they don't know what it is, but unfortunately for Apple Switchers aren't the only ones buying macs.



    But they are the ones buying new macs in the greatest numbers.



    Existing Mac users upgrading a two-year-old MacBook Core Duo are the minority. Jobs and "Jony" know that the REAL pricing decisions are made by switchers, who, as you've said, don't give two flits about Firewire.

    *To them, $50 might make or break a system.

    *To them, sidemounted blinky-lights (worthless battery indicator) is more important than a foreign connector (firewore)

    *To them, the choice to switch is an uphill one. All of their software has to be re-purchased for Mac



    For existing mac users, the choice is less important.

    *You have a platform with which you are (ostensibly) happy. Windows is foreign.

    *You have lots of software running on MacOS, perhaps software for which there is no good Windows alternative.

    *MAYBE, you have a firewire drive, camera, scanner, audio box, etc.



    BUT, you are already a user. The general public (and MANY professionals inc. graphics and video guys) don't upgrade their machines every year. You have a system that works. Poor college students buy a machine when they start school, and MAYBE a new one if they go to grad school. Laptops aren't purchased anew each year.



    All of the above "existing" users aren't in Apple's sights. We don't bring money in like the hordes of switchers.



    Simply put, Apple is following the diminishing retail $$ and catering to users who are actually BUYING their products. Only problem is, those buyers aren't mac users.
  • Reply 371 of 1665
    ah... if you need firewire.. and its part of your profession, or even if it isn't but you take your work serious, then get the serious version of the laptop. get a macbook pro. it has firewire.



    but all that aside, i do sympathize. i for one want am like you. i can't stand when apple assume that things have become old technology. i hope that we can all support each other in the push against apple doing these sort of things. and help us bring back firewire, and VGA output,... and scsi, and serial ports for printers, and floppies. i miss the 5.25 floppies. you know? sometimes i only need to save 516k of data /sarcasm
  • Reply 372 of 1665
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Several points that I think need to be made.



    1) Several posters have said that Apple have done market research and decided that most users don't use FW. This MAY be true but Apple have NOT and do not do market research. See link here. Frankly I suspect the use of FW devices, among Mac users, is higher than we think here.



    2) FW is dying but not dead yet. USB has definitely marginalized FW. There is no doubt to that. But there still are a lot of FW devices in use that are yet to be replaced by USB devices. When USB 3 comes out that could be the final nail in the coffin fro FW. But until then I don't understand why Apple don't include FW on this iteration of the MB and phase it out a year or two from now. I think that gas combustion engines are on the way out too, but I'm not for closing all gas stations...yet.



    3) The MB, IMO, is designed to drive sales of other Apple gear. Need FW then get the pro. Only can afford a MB then look also at the Time Capsule and new ACDs. Two USB ports in this machine is going to woefully inadequate for most users. Especially if you have an iPhone and charge with your Mac. While this is a good business strategy for Apple, I think it shortchanges users in this case. The MB should be more capable and versatile than this IMO.
  • Reply 373 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    So let me get this right:

    1.) You aleady own the new MacBook?

    2.) You need to own a newMacBook to comment on a missing firewire port?



    1. Nope. (Pro on order) Not complaining

    2. Didn't comment one way or another



    As I stated, "It is too bad that we don't have at least one news site much like the iTunes store where you can only review/comment on things that you actually purchased/own."
  • Reply 374 of 1665
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Somebody OnThe Nets View Post


    1 port cost Apple $1599.99. It's as simple as that.



    I was going to point out how irrational that is, but I doubt that any logical argument would be lost, so I'll just say, buy a $999 MacBook with FW400 is a single, longtime-coming obsolescing port standard is that important to you.



    Quote:

    If this FW wasn't a problem this page would have been 2 pages long....



    Any change Apple makes is a problem for someone. People complain that the ACDs don't have iSight cameras and mics. Apple adds a 24" model with such features but people complain that it is unneeded and just costs them more money for features they won't use. Apple adds adapters and remote controls with products but people complain that they are paying for items they don't need. Apple makes these Ã* la carte for the few that need it but they complain that its not needed.



    The only real change Apple has done that had any real affect on usability and the pocketbook is the switch from PCMCIA to EC/34, which was so new that there was option for moving from the older standard to the newer one. FW400 has been cleaning out its desk, saying its goodbyes and walking out the door for years now.



    Throw a going away party, have a wake, start a support group or write a NewYorker cartoon with the "I'm a Mac" guy hanging himself a FW400 cable (or would it make more sense to use USB2.0?). Regardless, we need to adapt because FW400 capable of adapting.
  • Reply 375 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Peruchito View Post


    ah... if you need firewire.. and its part of your profession, or even if it isn't but you take your work serious, then get the serious version of the laptop. get a macbook pro. it has firewire



    The problem is, that some of us already own a "serious" machine at home. I own a Mac Pro, but would have bought the MB in a heartbeat for field usage. It's a simple need. I don't need MBP cause I can't do seious work with Glossy screens. I just want to capture and do quick rough cuts on a 13 inch machine. My God my mouth just drooled at the thought. But alas, it is not the case.



    No one needs VGA because of the Display port adapters... what to do with FW users? USB to FW? Sorry it's not that simple.
  • Reply 376 of 1665
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 922member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    1) Keep current Mac.



    Apple makes no sale.



    Quote:

    2) Get new camera.



    Apple makes no sale.



    Quote:

    3) Buy the cheap MacBook for $999



    With far inferior graphics? Less solid construction?

    The new MacBooks are superior to the old in every way other than the loss of FW. I expect Apple will sell a lot of older MacBooks to those who really value FW - and the used market should be bustling with people who don't need FW selling to those who do.



    Quote:

    4) Buy a MacBook Pro



    $700 is a big chunk of change to a lot of people. That money could be used to buy other gear, upgrade software, pay rent, etc.



    Quote:

    5) Buy a non-Mac PC.



    Apple makes no sale. And may lose future sales.



    I'm sure folks are right that there are solid engineering and marketing reasons for dropping FW. But it is sad. As I said, FW is valuable to an audience who has long been considered Apple's core market demographic. Apple just distanced itself from them a little bit.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 377 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I was going to point out how irrational that is, but I doubt that any logical argument would be lost, so I'll just say, buy a $999 MacBook with FW400 is a single, longtime-coming obsolescing port standard is that important to you.



    What is wrong with you people? Why would I backstep? I love the current design except for the loss of FW. It's that simple.
  • Reply 378 of 1665
    eulereuler Posts: 81member
    With them changing the video output and etc with this new manufacturing process, do you think that they were just pressing and trying to hard with this new process and decided to drop the FW port?



    Why would they keep it for the MBPs and the plastic MBs?
  • Reply 379 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post


    Has anybody realize that with DisplayPort you can connect either the MacBook, MacBook Air also MacBook Pro to a 30" Cinema Display.



    MacBook got back-lit keyboard!



    You got a Glass-Display with LED well as a Glass-Touchpad with gestures!



    on New Aluminum MacBooks you got more features then the last MacBook, I would traded Firewire to do the above.



    That's nice, but without Firewire the new Macbook is as useful to me as, well a brick!
  • Reply 380 of 1665
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    1. Nope. (Pro on order) Not complaining

    2. Didn't comment one way or another



    As I stated, "It is too bad that we don't have at least one news site much like the iTunes store where you can only review/comment on things that you actually purchased/own."



    And that sounds like you're complaining on the complaints people are making.
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