That is a one year corner. We'll see a release later this year, if still on target, maybe a high-end Mac Pro for both Apple and Intel marketing aspects as it's only the server and workstation-grade CPUs that will be ready. If you can wait a year for Nehelam, USB3.0, any new case design issues, NVIDIA HW/and driver issues, and whatever else could happen, then I think that is smart idea.
I'm using a two year old 2.16 C2D MB Pro. I love it! I calculated its depreciation cost @ $50 a month when I bought it. A replacement Nelaham MB Pro is already on my radar! I admire the new MB's smaller form factor, too, and would consider buying both.
Explain how Apple is taking us in the right direction? Where does this blind faith come from? You won't have to replace your RME (great product) unless you go with a Macbook. If you buy a Macbook you're throwing your money away.
Ok I will have a go at explaining 'how apple is taking us in the right direction'
Serial port and ADB replaced with USB. I was upset at having to replace an ADB dongle and a serial MIDI interface but USB has given Mac owners so many periphral options.
Nubus and AGP replaced with PCI/PCIx/PCI express again more options for Mac Owners.
6800 to G3/4/5 to intel 486. I can now run windows if I have to with bootcamp or fusion/parallels.
Mac OS9 to unix based OS X again more users to the Mac
I think all these moves, although painful in small increments, has brought us 'the mac community' in the right direction, and this is vindicated by the growing number of mac users in our community. I guess my 'blind faith' is because recently Apple has been executing quite well on a simple strategy. Support and use standards thus not marginalising the platform but differentiate and add value where you can. Or put more simply don't create barriers unless they are to your advantage.
Which brings me to our beloved Firewire. I will miss firewire when it is gone but it has served its purpose. Firewire was an important enabling technology in the past for the iPod, DV cameras, external drives, and audio interfaces.
iPods have used USB2 for years, DV cameras are being replaced with HD cameras which use USB2 (I recently bought the Sony HDR SR12 which only has USB2), external drives as you rightly pointed out are better served by esata. Which leaves the audio interfaces which are moving to USB2 for the low end and ExpressCard/34 for the high end.
As I said in my original email I am waiting until next year to update, from what I read Nehalem should be worth waiting and I am hoping Snow Leopard could bring some features in the home server/network space. I agree with you that the RME Fireface800 is a great product but I am not holding my breath that Firewire will be around this time next year, even on the MBP. I would prefer an esata port for a quick/cheap external drive and leave the ExpressCard/34 slot free for a fast low latency audio interface/external DSP and perhaps USB3 will be ready.
All these painful little steps has lowered the cost of being a mac user and we should be in a position to benefit from multi-core Nehalem, a lot more than say our Win32 cousins....
The problem I have with all this is that Apple didn't simply remove Firewire from the MacBook, they did it while at the same time pushing the MacBook more upscale. It can almost be considered a 13" MacBook Pro at this point so dropping Firewire is like adding insult to injury.
This once sentence summed it up nicely. They raise the price by $200 and take away firewire. How does that make sense?
At $1299 and $1599 that is "pro" pricing regardless of what Apple wants us to believe. At that price point not having at least an express card slot is simply amazing. An express card slot would help make it somewhat future proof and would have also completely silenced this firewire backlash.
I am definitely going to build my own hackintosh laptop once I find one that I like and seems to work well with OSX without too much tweaking. I wonder how many other lost sales Apple will have from this fiasco.
Apple removed FW from iPod...iPhone connection is USB only...what kind of additional warning do you want? It looked pretty obvious to me.
OK, considering this (no FW on Macbook) as the warning then. It will next be removed from Mini, then iMac, then MBP and Mac Pro...
what a lame comparision! FireWire on computers is ment for totally different solutions, compared to the ipod or iphone, which are both devices that do not really need the benefit of FireWire. How could anyone see this coming? Because the iPod switched to usb years ago? Come on! That wasnt exactly an 'advance warning' for the Macbook.
Well, I was thinking of getting one of your new laptops, the MacBook 13", but it doesn't have a firewire port, and I kinda need one.
No you don't.
I do Steve, I have an iPod that's firewire only, my external hard drive is firewire, sure it has USB 2 also but if I use that I have to find a power outlet and use a clunky power brick and it's noticeably slower. I also have a 35mm film scanner that's firewire only.
You still have a firewire iPod? - Hahahahaha! Buy a new one, simple.
But it still works fine, I don't really see the need...
Listen Conner, do you have any idea what it costs to run a Gulfstream? Do you have any idea how much fuel that thing uses - hmmm? One load of fuel is more than your car uses in four years. Trust me, you need a new iPod.
But what about the film scanner, they're not cheap...
Film scanner? You're kidding me, right? No one still uses film.
I do. I like film, its self archiving, independent of power sources, and I have thousands invested in lenses.
Connor, do yourself a favour, trust me, get yourself a Canon 5D Mk II - I did.
But Steve, they cost over two grand! To replace my lenses would cost me another 15...
Connor, that's YOUR problem. Look, you're obviously a cheapskate, so just get yourself a USB film scanner, or better yet, just get the Pro.
But Steve, those options are another grand and...
Connor, The Gulfstream needs a new set of rubber - capiche?
Steve, but why couldn't you have just put a firewire port on it?
To save YOU money Connor. You whine and moan about replacing your hardware, but we were only thinking of you as a consumer. I'm truly disappointed that you don't appreciate our efforts on YOUR behalf.
Well, gee, sorry Steve, I guess maybe I was being a bit selfish and I didn't fully realise.......Say Steve, how much did it save?
Two dollars.
Connor, you still there?
Connor, what film scanner and Mac are you using now?
Well, I was thinking of getting one of your new laptops, the MacBook 13", but it doesn't have a firewire port, and I kinda need one.
No you don't.
I do Steve, I have an iPod that's firewire only, my external hard drive is firewire, sure it has USB 2 also but if I use that I have to find a power outlet and use a clunky power brick and it's noticeably slower. I also have a 35mm film scanner that's firewire only.
You still have a firewire iPod? - Hahahahaha! Buy a new one, simple.
But it still works fine, I don't really see the need...
Listen Conner, do you have any idea what it costs to run a Gulfstream? Do you have any idea how much fuel that thing uses - hmmm? One load of fuel is more than your car uses in four years. Trust me, you need a new iPod.
But what about the film scanner, they're not cheap...
Film scanner? You're kidding me, right? No one still uses film.
I do. I like film, its self archiving, independent of power sources, and I have thousands invested in lenses.
Connor, do yourself a favour, trust me, get yourself a Canon 5D Mk II - I did.
But Steve, they cost over two grand! To replace my lenses would cost me another 15...
Connor, that's YOUR problem. Look, you're obviously a cheapskate, so just get yourself a USB film scanner, or better yet, just get the Pro.
But Steve, those options are another grand and...
Connor, The Gulfstream needs a new set of rubber - capiche?
Steve, but why couldn't you have just put a firewire port on it?
To save YOU money Connor. You whine and moan about replacing your hardware, but we were only thinking of you as a consumer. I'm truly disappointed that you don't appreciate our efforts on YOUR behalf.
Well, gee, sorry Steve, I guess maybe I was being a bit selfish and I didn't fully realise.......Say Steve, how much did it save?
In fact, this is one of the best sites for anybody in the recording biz: http://tweakheadz.com/index.html Check out the article on "21 Ideas for Home Studio Rigs" and better yet, ask them what they think about Apple' new Macbook.
The entry price for an Apple tower has increased from $1599 to $2800 in the past 8 years, and now you have to spend $2000 to have a laptop you can connect your DV camera to.
It's clear that these latest MacBooks were built by the marketing department.
They were purposely crippled.
Many professionals don't need a high end MacBook Pro for travel. Many wannabe's can't afford high end MacBook Pros. This latest offering screws both of them. The missing FireWire cripples these machines and makes them just a hunk of useless metal for anyone in media or music. No high speed connectivity replacement is provided or possible, no express slot to upgrade them. They're completely useless for the digital lifestyle and digital creators that Apple promotes.
Some professionals, especially professional wannabe's, only have one nice machine. If it's a laptop, then of course you get the MacBook Pro. Otherwise for heavy lifting, you get the big iron of the Mac Pro. For a second machine, you economize. Now, there's no way to do that now, other than to buy old technology.
If you have a pro desktop machine, you want an inexpensive machine to capture video on the road, or work with music files, or other media. Apple's strong point has always been media. Their machines have always been fully capable for media access, not stripped down. Even if you were a media wannabe, you bought Apple. These machines are intentionally crippled, useless computers. It's a shame Jon Ives design expertise was wasted on them. They're not for the digital lifestyle or digital creators.
I suggest avoiding MacBooks like the plague. Maybe Apple will return to building fully capable machines for the rest of us, rather than building them for the marketing department.
I've had Macintoshes since 1984. This is the first time I've felt the company really let us down.
It's clear that these latest MacBooks were built by the marketing department.
They were purposely crippled.
Many professionals don't need a high end MacBook Pro for travel. Many wannabe's can't afford high end MacBook Pros. This latest offering screws both of them. The missing FireWire cripples these machines and makes them just a hunk of useless metal for anyone in media or music. No high speed connectivity replacement is provided or possible, no express slot to upgrade them. They're completely useless for the digital lifestyle and digital creators that Apple promotes.
Some professionals, especially professional wannabe's, only have one nice machine. If it's a laptop, then of course you get the MacBook Pro. Otherwise for heavy lifting, you get the big iron of the Mac Pro. For a second machine, you economize. Now, there's no way to do that now, other than to buy old technology.
If you have a pro desktop machine, you want an inexpensive machine to capture video on the road, or work with music files, or other media. Apple's strong point has always been media. Their machines have always been fully capable for media access, not stripped down. Even if you were a media wannabe, you bought Apple. These machines are intentionally crippled, useless computers. It's a shame Jon Ives design expertise was wasted on them. They're not for the digital lifestyle or digital creators.
I suggest avoiding MacBooks like the plague. Maybe Apple will return to building fully capable machines for the rest of us, rather than building them for the marketing department.
I've had Macintoshes since 1984. This is the first time I've felt the company really let us down.
Bingo! The original MacBooks were too popular and that popularity cut into MacBook Pro sales. Actual Pro's were buying MacBook instead of MacBook Pro's. That is why FireWire was removed. Pure greed on Apple's part forcing people to buy a more expensive (=higher profit margin) computer.
I think they truly underestimated the backlash from consumer and prosumers over this...
Bingo! The original MacBooks were too popular and popularity cut into MacBook Pro sales. Actual Pro's were buying MacBook instead of MacBook Pro's. That is why FireWire was removed. Pure greed on Apple's part.
I think they truly underestimated the backlash from consumer and prosumers over this...
I don't see the removable of FW400 as a valid argument as it is a dead end port interface, but I do see the decision to not add FW800 to the MB after removing FW400 (as well as the decision to have never included FW800 on a single low-end Mac notebook) as a marketing decision to push prosumers to the MBP.
What I want to know is why didn't or couldn't Apple make FW800 use the same port interface as FW400. FW800 and FW3200 use backwards compatible ports that don't require an physical adapter, and all 3 USB standards use the same port interface. Was this a gaffe on Apple's part by not looking far enough ahead or was the redesign of the interface for FW800 a marketing call?
Ok I will have a go at explaining 'how apple is taking us in the right direction'
Serial port and ADB replaced with USB. I was upset at having to replace an ADB dongle and a serial MIDI interface but USB has given Mac owners so many periphral options.
Nubus and AGP replaced with PCI/PCIx/PCI express again more options for Mac Owners.
6800 to G3/4/5 to intel 486. I can now run windows if I have to with bootcamp or fusion/parallels.
Mac OS9 to unix based OS X again more users to the Mac
I think all these moves, although painful in small increments, has brought us 'the mac community' in the right direction, and this is vindicated by the growing number of mac users in our community. I guess my 'blind faith' is because recently Apple has been executing quite well on a simple strategy. Support and use standards thus not marginalising the platform but differentiate and add value where you can. Or put more simply don't create barriers unless they are to your advantage.
Which brings me to our beloved Firewire. I will miss firewire when it is gone but it has served its purpose. Firewire was an important enabling technology in the past for the iPod, DV cameras, external drives, and audio interfaces.
iPods have used USB2 for years, DV cameras are being replaced with HD cameras which use USB2 (I recently bought the Sony HDR SR12 which only has USB2), external drives as you rightly pointed out are better served by esata. Which leaves the audio interfaces which are moving to USB2 for the low end and ExpressCard/34 for the high end.
As I said in my original email I am waiting until next year to update, from what I read Nehalem should be worth waiting and I am hoping Snow Leopard could bring some features in the home server/network space. I agree with you that the RME Fireface800 is a great product but I am not holding my breath that Firewire will be around this time next year, even on the MBP. I would prefer an esata port for a quick/cheap external drive and leave the ExpressCard/34 slot free for a fast low latency audio interface/external DSP and perhaps USB3 will be ready.
All these painful little steps has lowered the cost of being a mac user and we should be in a position to benefit from multi-core Nehalem, a lot more than say our Win32 cousins....
What struck me about your post is that it seemed to me that you didn't finish your thought. You are correct that when Apple made technology changes in the past it was so that there could be further "enabling" for the user to benefit from. Not always from something that was clearly superior but sometimes simply for the sake of commonality with other computer technologies.
What enabling or increased commonality has taken place by removal of FireWire, a technology that many will vouch for it's superior capability in key segments that Apple has catered to (including the home movie-making segment)? I don't see any as we've already had USB for as long as anyone. Almost overnight, the percentage of Windows machines being bought that have the capability of using FireWire (either directly or via ExpressCard) has probably become higher than the percentage of Macs with FireWire capability being bought. How ironic is that considering it was Apple that championed the FW in the first place?
What I want to know is why didn't or couldn't Apple make FW800 use the same port interface as FW400. FW800 and FW3200 use backwards compatible ports that don't require an physical adapter, and all 3 USB standards use the same port interface. Was this a gaffe on Apple's part by not looking far enough ahead or was the redesign of the interface for FW800 a marketing call?
errrr..... are u sure the text matches the photo ???
The picture isn't the point. I posted the picture to show the device.
If you look at the text below the picture the company says they will support the device in USB for the new MacBook. Counter to people complaining USB is no good for audio.
What enabling or increased commonality has taken place by removal of FireWire, a technology that many will vouch for it's superior capability in key segments that Apple has catered to (including the home movie-making segment)? I don't see any as we've already had USB for as long as anyone. Almost overnight, the percentage of Windows machines being bought that have the capability of using FireWire (either directly or via ExpressCard) has probably become higher than the percentage of Macs with FireWire capability being bought. How ironic is that considering it was Apple that championed the FW in the first place?
You are overstating to make your point. Many Windows machines have the option of FireWire, but extremely few people take that option.
So few people use FireWire to the point of where devices that used to be FireWire only are offering a USB only option.
If you BTO it, sure. But starting retail price for the in-store model is $2799.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core
and, $999 for a Macbook to connect your DV camera.
How long you think Apple's going to keep one of the old white plastic MacBooks in their product lineup? I give it 6-8 months; then that expensive unibody case will have become more affordable and they'll bring the price back down to $1099, killing the white plastic MacBook and with it any Mac laptop with Firewire for under two grand.
Comments
That is a one year corner. We'll see a release later this year, if still on target, maybe a high-end Mac Pro for both Apple and Intel marketing aspects as it's only the server and workstation-grade CPUs that will be ready. If you can wait a year for Nehelam, USB3.0, any new case design issues, NVIDIA HW/and driver issues, and whatever else could happen, then I think that is smart idea.
I'm using a two year old 2.16 C2D MB Pro. I love it! I calculated its depreciation cost @ $50 a month when I bought it. A replacement Nelaham MB Pro is already on my radar! I admire the new MB's smaller form factor, too, and would consider buying both.
Explain how Apple is taking us in the right direction? Where does this blind faith come from? You won't have to replace your RME (great product) unless you go with a Macbook. If you buy a Macbook you're throwing your money away.
Ok I will have a go at explaining 'how apple is taking us in the right direction'
- Serial port and ADB replaced with USB. I was upset at having to replace an ADB dongle and a serial MIDI interface but USB has given Mac owners so many periphral options.
- Nubus and AGP replaced with PCI/PCIx/PCI express again more options for Mac Owners.
- 6800 to G3/4/5 to intel 486. I can now run windows if I have to with bootcamp or fusion/parallels.
- Mac OS9 to unix based OS X again more users to the Mac
I think all these moves, although painful in small increments, has brought us 'the mac community' in the right direction, and this is vindicated by the growing number of mac users in our community. I guess my 'blind faith' is because recently Apple has been executing quite well on a simple strategy. Support and use standards thus not marginalising the platform but differentiate and add value where you can. Or put more simply don't create barriers unless they are to your advantage.Which brings me to our beloved Firewire. I will miss firewire when it is gone but it has served its purpose. Firewire was an important enabling technology in the past for the iPod, DV cameras, external drives, and audio interfaces.
iPods have used USB2 for years, DV cameras are being replaced with HD cameras which use USB2 (I recently bought the Sony HDR SR12 which only has USB2), external drives as you rightly pointed out are better served by esata. Which leaves the audio interfaces which are moving to USB2 for the low end and ExpressCard/34 for the high end.
As I said in my original email I am waiting until next year to update, from what I read Nehalem should be worth waiting and I am hoping Snow Leopard could bring some features in the home server/network space. I agree with you that the RME Fireface800 is a great product but I am not holding my breath that Firewire will be around this time next year, even on the MBP. I would prefer an esata port for a quick/cheap external drive and leave the ExpressCard/34 slot free for a fast low latency audio interface/external DSP and perhaps USB3 will be ready.
All these painful little steps has lowered the cost of being a mac user and we should be in a position to benefit from multi-core Nehalem, a lot more than say our Win32 cousins....
The problem I have with all this is that Apple didn't simply remove Firewire from the MacBook, they did it while at the same time pushing the MacBook more upscale. It can almost be considered a 13" MacBook Pro at this point so dropping Firewire is like adding insult to injury.
This once sentence summed it up nicely. They raise the price by $200 and take away firewire. How does that make sense?
At $1299 and $1599 that is "pro" pricing regardless of what Apple wants us to believe. At that price point not having at least an express card slot is simply amazing. An express card slot would help make it somewhat future proof and would have also completely silenced this firewire backlash.
I am definitely going to build my own hackintosh laptop once I find one that I like and seems to work well with OSX without too much tweaking. I wonder how many other lost sales Apple will have from this fiasco.
Apple removed FW from iPod...iPhone connection is USB only...what kind of additional warning do you want? It looked pretty obvious to me.
OK, considering this (no FW on Macbook) as the warning then. It will next be removed from Mini, then iMac, then MBP and Mac Pro...
what a lame comparision! FireWire on computers is ment for totally different solutions, compared to the ipod or iphone, which are both devices that do not really need the benefit of FireWire. How could anyone see this coming? Because the iPod switched to usb years ago? Come on! That wasnt exactly an 'advance warning' for the Macbook.
Hi Steve
Hi Connor, what can I do for you?
Well, I was thinking of getting one of your new laptops, the MacBook 13", but it doesn't have a firewire port, and I kinda need one.
No you don't.
I do Steve, I have an iPod that's firewire only, my external hard drive is firewire, sure it has USB 2 also but if I use that I have to find a power outlet and use a clunky power brick and it's noticeably slower. I also have a 35mm film scanner that's firewire only.
You still have a firewire iPod? - Hahahahaha! Buy a new one, simple.
But it still works fine, I don't really see the need...
Listen Conner, do you have any idea what it costs to run a Gulfstream? Do you have any idea how much fuel that thing uses - hmmm? One load of fuel is more than your car uses in four years. Trust me, you need a new iPod.
But what about the film scanner, they're not cheap...
Film scanner? You're kidding me, right? No one still uses film.
I do. I like film, its self archiving, independent of power sources, and I have thousands invested in lenses.
Connor, do yourself a favour, trust me, get yourself a Canon 5D Mk II - I did.
But Steve, they cost over two grand! To replace my lenses would cost me another 15...
Connor, that's YOUR problem. Look, you're obviously a cheapskate, so just get yourself a USB film scanner, or better yet, just get the Pro.
But Steve, those options are another grand and...
Connor, The Gulfstream needs a new set of rubber - capiche?
Steve, but why couldn't you have just put a firewire port on it?
To save YOU money Connor. You whine and moan about replacing your hardware, but we were only thinking of you as a consumer. I'm truly disappointed that you don't appreciate our efforts on YOUR behalf.
Well, gee, sorry Steve, I guess maybe I was being a bit selfish and I didn't fully realise.......Say Steve, how much did it save?
Two dollars.
Connor, you still there?
Connor, what film scanner and Mac are you using now?
-
-
-
-
Connor, you still there?
Hi Steve
Hi Connor, what can I do for you?
Well, I was thinking of getting one of your new laptops, the MacBook 13", but it doesn't have a firewire port, and I kinda need one.
No you don't.
I do Steve, I have an iPod that's firewire only, my external hard drive is firewire, sure it has USB 2 also but if I use that I have to find a power outlet and use a clunky power brick and it's noticeably slower. I also have a 35mm film scanner that's firewire only.
You still have a firewire iPod? - Hahahahaha! Buy a new one, simple.
But it still works fine, I don't really see the need...
Listen Conner, do you have any idea what it costs to run a Gulfstream? Do you have any idea how much fuel that thing uses - hmmm? One load of fuel is more than your car uses in four years. Trust me, you need a new iPod.
But what about the film scanner, they're not cheap...
Film scanner? You're kidding me, right? No one still uses film.
I do. I like film, its self archiving, independent of power sources, and I have thousands invested in lenses.
Connor, do yourself a favour, trust me, get yourself a Canon 5D Mk II - I did.
But Steve, they cost over two grand! To replace my lenses would cost me another 15...
Connor, that's YOUR problem. Look, you're obviously a cheapskate, so just get yourself a USB film scanner, or better yet, just get the Pro.
But Steve, those options are another grand and...
Connor, The Gulfstream needs a new set of rubber - capiche?
Steve, but why couldn't you have just put a firewire port on it?
To save YOU money Connor. You whine and moan about replacing your hardware, but we were only thinking of you as a consumer. I'm truly disappointed that you don't appreciate our efforts on YOUR behalf.
Well, gee, sorry Steve, I guess maybe I was being a bit selfish and I didn't fully realise.......Say Steve, how much did it save?
Two dollars.
.
.
.
.
Connor, you still there?
all current models...
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite-mk3
http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...x?ObjectId=731
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler
there goes my idea of upgrading my portable 12" PB audio recoding editing suite...
Apple, you've lost the plot. And many sales.
Form over function twits!
(and only TWO usb ports? are you joking?!... you're takin the piss big time.)
Here is an ideal mobile audio recording studio designed by pros: http://www.tweakheadz.com/rigs.htm
In fact, this is one of the best sites for anybody in the recording biz: http://tweakheadz.com/index.html Check out the article on "21 Ideas for Home Studio Rigs" and better yet, ask them what they think about Apple' new Macbook.
TweakHeadz Lab http://www.tweakheadz.com
BLUE RAY TO EXPENSIVE? NOT TRUE. SONY VAIO FW LINE OF LAPTOPS OFFERS BLURAY READER/WRITER AS A 150/300 OPTiON.
Did you check out the cost of a Sony Vaio with Blu Ray? Please include specs.
The entry price for an Apple tower has increased from $1599 to $2800 in the past 8 years, and now you have to spend $2000 to have a laptop you can connect your DV camera to.
Why the lies?
The entry level for a Mac Pro is $2299 http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/...A?mco=NzQ3Njkz
and, $999 for a Macbook to connect your DV camera.
They were purposely crippled.
Many professionals don't need a high end MacBook Pro for travel. Many wannabe's can't afford high end MacBook Pros. This latest offering screws both of them. The missing FireWire cripples these machines and makes them just a hunk of useless metal for anyone in media or music. No high speed connectivity replacement is provided or possible, no express slot to upgrade them. They're completely useless for the digital lifestyle and digital creators that Apple promotes.
Some professionals, especially professional wannabe's, only have one nice machine. If it's a laptop, then of course you get the MacBook Pro. Otherwise for heavy lifting, you get the big iron of the Mac Pro. For a second machine, you economize. Now, there's no way to do that now, other than to buy old technology.
If you have a pro desktop machine, you want an inexpensive machine to capture video on the road, or work with music files, or other media. Apple's strong point has always been media. Their machines have always been fully capable for media access, not stripped down. Even if you were a media wannabe, you bought Apple. These machines are intentionally crippled, useless computers. It's a shame Jon Ives design expertise was wasted on them. They're not for the digital lifestyle or digital creators.
I suggest avoiding MacBooks like the plague. Maybe Apple will return to building fully capable machines for the rest of us, rather than building them for the marketing department.
I've had Macintoshes since 1984. This is the first time I've felt the company really let us down.
It's clear that these latest MacBooks were built by the marketing department.
They were purposely crippled.
Many professionals don't need a high end MacBook Pro for travel. Many wannabe's can't afford high end MacBook Pros. This latest offering screws both of them. The missing FireWire cripples these machines and makes them just a hunk of useless metal for anyone in media or music. No high speed connectivity replacement is provided or possible, no express slot to upgrade them. They're completely useless for the digital lifestyle and digital creators that Apple promotes.
Some professionals, especially professional wannabe's, only have one nice machine. If it's a laptop, then of course you get the MacBook Pro. Otherwise for heavy lifting, you get the big iron of the Mac Pro. For a second machine, you economize. Now, there's no way to do that now, other than to buy old technology.
If you have a pro desktop machine, you want an inexpensive machine to capture video on the road, or work with music files, or other media. Apple's strong point has always been media. Their machines have always been fully capable for media access, not stripped down. Even if you were a media wannabe, you bought Apple. These machines are intentionally crippled, useless computers. It's a shame Jon Ives design expertise was wasted on them. They're not for the digital lifestyle or digital creators.
I suggest avoiding MacBooks like the plague. Maybe Apple will return to building fully capable machines for the rest of us, rather than building them for the marketing department.
I've had Macintoshes since 1984. This is the first time I've felt the company really let us down.
Bingo! The original MacBooks were too popular and that popularity cut into MacBook Pro sales. Actual Pro's were buying MacBook instead of MacBook Pro's. That is why FireWire was removed. Pure greed on Apple's part forcing people to buy a more expensive (=higher profit margin) computer.
I think they truly underestimated the backlash from consumer and prosumers over this...
Bingo! The original MacBooks were too popular and popularity cut into MacBook Pro sales. Actual Pro's were buying MacBook instead of MacBook Pro's. That is why FireWire was removed. Pure greed on Apple's part.
I think they truly underestimated the backlash from consumer and prosumers over this...
I don't see the removable of FW400 as a valid argument as it is a dead end port interface, but I do see the decision to not add FW800 to the MB after removing FW400 (as well as the decision to have never included FW800 on a single low-end Mac notebook) as a marketing decision to push prosumers to the MBP.
as it is a dead end port interface
Perhaps you have a point... From the FireWire Depot website:
NOTICE: After almost 9 years of providing service and innovative products, FireWire Depot will be closing operations at the end of Sept 2008.
http://www.fwdepot.com/thestore/default.php
Perhaps you have a point... From the FireWire Depot website:
NOTICE: After almost 9 years of providing service and innovative products, FireWire Depot will be closing operations at the end of Sept 2008.
http://www.fwdepot.com/thestore/default.php
What I want to know is why didn't or couldn't Apple make FW800 use the same port interface as FW400. FW800 and FW3200 use backwards compatible ports that don't require an physical adapter, and all 3 USB standards use the same port interface. Was this a gaffe on Apple's part by not looking far enough ahead or was the redesign of the interface for FW800 a marketing call?
Ok I will have a go at explaining 'how apple is taking us in the right direction'
- Serial port and ADB replaced with USB. I was upset at having to replace an ADB dongle and a serial MIDI interface but USB has given Mac owners so many periphral options.
- Nubus and AGP replaced with PCI/PCIx/PCI express again more options for Mac Owners.
- 6800 to G3/4/5 to intel 486. I can now run windows if I have to with bootcamp or fusion/parallels.
- Mac OS9 to unix based OS X again more users to the Mac
I think all these moves, although painful in small increments, has brought us 'the mac community' in the right direction, and this is vindicated by the growing number of mac users in our community. I guess my 'blind faith' is because recently Apple has been executing quite well on a simple strategy. Support and use standards thus not marginalising the platform but differentiate and add value where you can. Or put more simply don't create barriers unless they are to your advantage.Which brings me to our beloved Firewire. I will miss firewire when it is gone but it has served its purpose. Firewire was an important enabling technology in the past for the iPod, DV cameras, external drives, and audio interfaces.
iPods have used USB2 for years, DV cameras are being replaced with HD cameras which use USB2 (I recently bought the Sony HDR SR12 which only has USB2), external drives as you rightly pointed out are better served by esata. Which leaves the audio interfaces which are moving to USB2 for the low end and ExpressCard/34 for the high end.
As I said in my original email I am waiting until next year to update, from what I read Nehalem should be worth waiting and I am hoping Snow Leopard could bring some features in the home server/network space. I agree with you that the RME Fireface800 is a great product but I am not holding my breath that Firewire will be around this time next year, even on the MBP. I would prefer an esata port for a quick/cheap external drive and leave the ExpressCard/34 slot free for a fast low latency audio interface/external DSP and perhaps USB3 will be ready.
All these painful little steps has lowered the cost of being a mac user and we should be in a position to benefit from multi-core Nehalem, a lot more than say our Win32 cousins....
What struck me about your post is that it seemed to me that you didn't finish your thought. You are correct that when Apple made technology changes in the past it was so that there could be further "enabling" for the user to benefit from. Not always from something that was clearly superior but sometimes simply for the sake of commonality with other computer technologies.
What enabling or increased commonality has taken place by removal of FireWire, a technology that many will vouch for it's superior capability in key segments that Apple has catered to (including the home movie-making segment)? I don't see any as we've already had USB for as long as anyone. Almost overnight, the percentage of Windows machines being bought that have the capability of using FireWire (either directly or via ExpressCard) has probably become higher than the percentage of Macs with FireWire capability being bought. How ironic is that considering it was Apple that championed the FW in the first place?
What I want to know is why didn't or couldn't Apple make FW800 use the same port interface as FW400. FW800 and FW3200 use backwards compatible ports that don't require an physical adapter, and all 3 USB standards use the same port interface. Was this a gaffe on Apple's part by not looking far enough ahead or was the redesign of the interface for FW800 a marketing call?
Marketing.
hilarious
they're using a macbook pro in the photo
errrr..... are u sure the text matches the photo ???
The picture isn't the point. I posted the picture to show the device.
If you look at the text below the picture the company says they will support the device in USB for the new MacBook. Counter to people complaining USB is no good for audio.
What enabling or increased commonality has taken place by removal of FireWire, a technology that many will vouch for it's superior capability in key segments that Apple has catered to (including the home movie-making segment)? I don't see any as we've already had USB for as long as anyone. Almost overnight, the percentage of Windows machines being bought that have the capability of using FireWire (either directly or via ExpressCard) has probably become higher than the percentage of Macs with FireWire capability being bought. How ironic is that considering it was Apple that championed the FW in the first place?
You are overstating to make your point. Many Windows machines have the option of FireWire, but extremely few people take that option.
So few people use FireWire to the point of where devices that used to be FireWire only are offering a USB only option.
Why the lies?
The entry level for a Mac Pro is $2299 http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/...A?mco=NzQ3Njkz
If you BTO it, sure. But starting retail price for the in-store model is $2799.
and, $999 for a Macbook to connect your DV camera.
How long you think Apple's going to keep one of the old white plastic MacBooks in their product lineup? I give it 6-8 months; then that expensive unibody case will have become more affordable and they'll bring the price back down to $1099, killing the white plastic MacBook and with it any Mac laptop with Firewire for under two grand.