The VAIO Z can be configured with BD recording for $2799. It's the model I'm considering since Apple doesn't want my money anymore. That said, the Z is more akin to a Macbook Pro (two graphics cards, full expansion) and a high res 1600x900 screen. It is nearly a full pound lighter than the MacBook thanks to carbon fiber construction. The most direct competition for the MacBook is the VAIO SR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
Well its Sony. Blu-ray is their format. They want people to adopt it so they make lots of money on licensing.
You realize that Apple is a big member of the BluRay consortium, right?
The 12" PB has a thicker case that isn't tapered on the edges like the new MB.
True. But the majority of the difference is in the height (3cm for the 12", 2.41cm of the 13.3".)
I don't think the logic board was the reason for the difference in height. Usually, it's the DVD and Battery that make the difference there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB
It depends I think. The 12" Powerbook had a battery really small compared to the new MB battery. Apple could cut some battery size in the MB in favor of connectivity, but this would harm the power autonomy of the machine. It is obviously a matter of priorities and decision.
This is likely one of the biggest reasons. As Murch said, the NVidia chip probably doesn't come with FW built in, and so the decision was made to leave it out and make more room for a bigger battery.
In my view (and obviously many, many others) this was a bad decision. The 12" PowerBook had decent battery life and so would have the MacBook, even if there was a slight drop in battery life.
On the other hand, the 'extra' battery we've gained has meant the loss of Target Disk Mode, outdated fairly new (and better performing) peripherals, sub-par Time Machine performance and has destabilized the entire future of Firewire on the Mac.
Who made this decision, and has he been fired yet?
I think the biggest misconception about the Macbook is that it's a "Consumer product". It's not a consumer product! It's a really competent platform, stable, high quality screen, solid design, great performance, runs a stable OS and uses quality components.
The only thing Consumer about this product is actually the lack of Firewire. The rest is just pure and sheer top of the line.
Apple could actually introduce another notebook mimicking the MacBook Air specs and ports and call it a consumer product. That would be more like it.
This was a typical Prince McLean Apple shill article attempting to rationalize Apple's bad decisions. He is like an Apple version of Thurott, only worse. Here's what wrong-
He says there are numerous alternatives to Target Disk Mode- then neglects to mention they don't work if the Target computer isn't bootable, which is where TDM really comes in handy.
While I agree with your criticism, I don't see Target Disk Mode as useful as others seem to think. If the machine is not bootable merely because the OS is corrupted then you can use a linux live disc to take data off of the drive. Furthermore, if the only thing stopping the machine from booting is a logical error in partition table you can boot off a Disc Warrior disc and repair the errors and MacOS magically comes back from the dead. For data transfer off of machines that can't boot I have used linux discs on several Intel Macs without issue so TDM isn't necessary in this circumstance either. Any real tech and even a lot of wannabe techs are going to have an external DVD drive so even if the internal drive is FUBAR you can still boot.
About the only circumstance where TDM would really help in troubleshooting is if the motherboard still could read the HDD, the HDD wasn't physically damaged and for whatever reason no video output could be outputed out of the Mac. Furthermore, merely because the machine can boot doesn't mean TDM works properly. I was once diagnosing a G4 PowerMac and I couldn't read anything off the HDD through TDM. I pulled the HDD connected it up through a USB to ATA adapter and all the data was still there.
TDM is a slightly easier means of data migration from an old Mac to a new Mac, but as a troubleshooting tool it is a bit overrated. Contrary to what you and others have made it out to be it isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. It is useful in a few select cases where you otherwise might have to pull the HDD, but it hardly is as big loss as people make it out to be. I am not saying I wouldn't miss the loss of the feature, but I don't see it as a huge loss.
Quote:
He talks about how FW isn't important in hard drives with the emergence of eSATA. Too bad not a single Mac includes eSATA ports.
Just a thought, but maybe Apple should have put an eSATA port on both the MB and the MBP. It isn't a stretch of the imagination to say that there are more devices with eSATA then there are FW. There are without a doubt millions of external hard drives out there with eSATA in the hands of customers. Performance wise, eSATA makes FW400 obsolete for external storage. Furthermore, Apple already filed a patent for something that resembles target disk mode for eSATA. If they included eSATA on their computers, the TDM argument for FW would vanish. The only reason AFAIK Apple needs to retain FW anything is for AV equipment that is FW only.
Quote:
Then he says it was because of a lack of space (total BS) and as a neccessary cost cutting measure. They raised the price $200 but can't afford the extra dollar or two it would add to their cost? Apple can surely make up for it with all the $30 Display Port adapters they're forcing people with external monitors to buy.
I will wholeheartedly agree that Apple's arguments on why they excluded it on the MB seem flimsy. The chipset on the MB no doubt supports FW400/800 so the only cost would be the connector (~$1) and another hole in the chassis(<$1). The profit margin on the MB is great enough that if the inclusion of the port only sold 5% more MBs it would more than make up for the ~$1 of additional cost per MB. I seriously doubt anyone would not buy the MB because Apple included something they would use. I sold computers for a while and realize that plenty of average end users buy computers with all sorts of features that they never use. Provided that the inclusion has a positive return on investment Apple should include it.
Quote:
In Apple's view, you're either Suzy Homemaker who uses a computer to check her Myspace page, build iTunes playlists, and transfer pics of her kids soccer games or you're an in demand professional with a personal assistant, a six figure budget and a view of the skyline from your office. There are TONS of us in between that.
I don't think Apple is ignorant, I just think that they purposely try to push their users into more profitable models. Within reason every companies does this, but Apple just seems to be more aggressive about pushing users into higher end models by selling stripped down models.
Steve Jobs has finally lost it. (Well, actually he's been a bit loopy for the past year.)
Time for him to go.
Steve Jobs is such an arrogant and cocky CEO! He did not even investigate the Camcorder market and affronts apple's loyal customers with such a cheap answer. I'm surprised, that he didn't close his e-mail with the famous 2 words f... you.
Really, it's time to go, mr. jobs. We won't cry!!!
Steve Jobs is such an arrogant and cocky CEO! He did not even investigate the Camcorder market and affronts apple's loyal customers with such a cheap answer. I'm surprised, that he didn't close his e-mail with the famous 2 words f... you.
Really, it's time to go, mr. jobs. We won't cry!!!
Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?
The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.
Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.
Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?
The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.
Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.
You don't seem to understand. USB is an inferior architecture. If you attempt to combine two you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator. You cannot take a technology like FW with supports simulataneous read/write and excellent isochronous support and "magically" retain those features using a USB port.
I think people are well aware of the $700 tax they must now pay, evidently more aware of this fact than you are of the technical foibles in your statement.
I don't think Apple is ignorant, I just think that they purposely try to push their users into more profitable models. Within reason every companies does this, but Apple just seems to be more aggressive about pushing users into higher end models by selling stripped down models.
Not only more aggressive. More blatant, obvious, and insulting to an Apple user's mindset and sensibility. In a word, AAPL's exclusion of FW in the MB is "chintzy"!
You don't seem to understand. USB is an inferior architecture. If you attempt to combine two you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator. You cannot take a technology like FW with supports simulataneous read/write and excellent isochronous support and "magically" retain those features using a USB port.
I think people are well aware of the $700 tax they must now pay, evidently more aware of this fact than you are of the technical foibles in your statement.
+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional audio interfaces (for recording).
Everyone's talking about video and Firewire support, but people don't seem to have mentioned Pro-Audio that much.
Most pro-audio users do not necessarily need better graphics or a bigger screen, but Firewire has become an industry standard for fast, affordable high quality audio.
Look at how many professional musicians use macbooks on stage or in the studio. Just because it doesn't say "pro" doesn't mean that thousands of professionals don't use it.
Those thousands of users are going to lose support for their peripheral audio hardware, many of whom have spent $1000's on their Firewire interfaces alone.
As professionals we aren't going to let the hardware companies tell us what we need. We know our needs, and it's ridiculous to have to spend nearly another $1000 just for Firewire support and a bunch of features we don't need.
+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional audio interfaces (for recording).
Everyone's talking about video and Firewire support, but people don't seem to have mentioned Pro-Audio that much.
Most pro-audio users do not necessarily need better graphics or a bigger screen, but Firewire has become an industry standard for fast, affordable high quality audio.
Look at how many professional musicians use macbooks on stage or in the studio. Just because it doesn't say "pro" doesn't mean that thousands of professionals don't use it.
Those thousands of users are going to lose support for their peripheral audio hardware, many of whom have spent $1000's on their Firewire interfaces alone.
As professionals we aren't going to let the hardware companies tell us what we need. We know our needs, and it's ridiculous to have to spend nearly another $1000 just for Firewire support and a bunch of features we don't need.
Exactly. My old but solid G4 PB Logic Pro setup with a FW Motu Traveller and a Neumann U87 allows me to record anywhere, and like you say, many pros have multiple systems, so a solid, small, functional portable is perfect for location work and lugging. And when i'm back in the studio i use one of our Mac Pros.
Oh...and i could cope marginally better with the loss of FW400, but only two USB ports?! i never buy USB2 only HDDs for those times when you need to use it via FW to free up a port. Also, my little bus powered LaCie is quite fussy about how much power it gets (i.e. on a 15" PB USB it doesn't work, on a 12" PB USB it does!)...so if USB is the only option i have to use a sodding power-sharing cable.
You don't seem to understand. USB is an inferior architecture. If you attempt to combine two you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator. You cannot take a technology like FW with supports simulataneous read/write and excellent isochronous support and "magically" retain those features using a USB port.
I think people are well aware of the $700 tax they must now pay, evidently more aware of this fact than you are of the technical foibles in your statement.
Does it work? It may not be the best overall solution, but it is a less expensive solution. I haven't seen too many differences in a FIrewire 400 vs. USB2 drive scenario. Yeah, USB is not a great solution for hard drives, it's more for keyboards/mice/input devices. Firewire 800 is more costly and some can justify the expense and some can't. But for $700 more, they get a LOT more than just a Firewire 400/800 port. They get a larger screen, bigger hard drive, etc., etc.
Most people that buy an entry level system probably won't notice a HUGE difference since they are already buying an entry level system and they know that a more expensive system will give them more options. People have just been used to buying Apples and having FIrewire 400, but Firewire 400 is like USB 1 and USB 1 is going away in place of USB2. So, it is just a progression. I am sure the same discussion will happen if and when Apple comes out with FIrewire 1600 or Firewire 3200, or FIrewire 6400.
Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?
The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.
Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.
I really accept your objection, but if it would not be a problem for the customer, there would not have such a big thread about this. Why mr. jobs risks to affront all these customers? Because he can? This is really arrogant.
+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional
As professionals we aren't going to let the hardware companies tell us what we need. We know our needs, and it's ridiculous to have to spend nearly another $1000 just for Firewire support and a bunch of features we don't need.
You are absolutely right man!!! Mr jobs ignores the user's needs. FW is important. I don't know, if an USB to FW adapter works the same way as a native FW port. But really bad is, that the new MacBook doesnt' support the target mode. It saved me in the past my "computerlife" when my display was dead. It's absolutely arrogant if somebody tell me to buy the old model only to get more features. Absolutely ridiculous!
I really accept your objection, but if it would not be a problem for the customer, there would not have such a big thread about this. Why mr. jobs risks to affront all these customers? Because he can? This is really arrogant.
The customer? They sell millions of Macbooks. There are 600 posts in this thread. HOw many individuals users do you think are in this thread? 200? 300?
HOw many of htose are complaining? How many of those complaining do you think are in the market for a MB in the next year? How many really truly need FW?
By the time you get done maybe 50 people might actually be concerned about this.
That pales in comparison to the millions of MBs Apple sells.
I know it sucks to be those that live and die on a MB with FW and can't or won't look at another option, but you can't please everyone when you are selling 1 product to millions of consumers.
I really accept your objection, but if it would not be a problem for the customer, there would not have such a big thread about this. Why mr. jobs risks to affront all these customers? Because he can? This is really arrogant.
I know, have you seen the MacBook? Is there any physical room to put a Firewire 400 or 800 port? I don't see any room for it while being able to do the things that apparently get more people wanting to do.
I know the Pro Audio crowd has a lot of Firewire 400 interfaces. Has anyone tried to use a USB2 to Firewire 400 cable to see if it works? Maybe it will just fine and no one will really notice. There are cables on the market for this. I mean, if it is a noticeable problem and it just simply won't work, I can understand. My background in Pro Audio is that you get the top end model and don't even bother with the low end laptops, it's not worth it, even if it works. Pro Audio guys need a decent size screen to see the apps like Logic, Pro Tools, etc., so a 15 inch screen is way better, plus getting larger hard drives is ALWAYS a plus. But I would find out if using a USB2 to FIrewire 400 cable will actually work for your particular device first, because if it works, it works, there are at least two of these ports on the MacBook, but for me personally, I don't even consider the MacBook as I want all of the attributes of the high models when I look for a new machine. If I can't afford it, then I at least have a machine that does work. HIgh end models instinctually have a longer useful life than an entry level model. If one amortizes $1,000 over the lifespan of the ownership of a laptop of let's say 36 months typically, that's about $30 a month, which is not THAT much money to pay out for a top end laptop.
Steve Jobs is such an arrogant and cocky CEO! He did not even investigate the Camcorder market and affronts apple's loyal customers with such a cheap answer. I'm surprised, that he didn't close his e-mail with the famous 2 words f... you.
Really, it's time to go, mr. jobs. We won't cry!!!
Steve Jobs is the best thing to ever happen to Apple the company was nearly bankrupt until he came back, and now Apple makes some of the best computers you can buy. Also, if you really need firewire so bad go buy an adapter and if your gonna switch to PC have fun but we don't need to hear about it because we can't do anything to fix it.
Here is what I would do if I just can't afford a MacBook Pro and want a MacBook to work with my Firewire 400 device. Call the mfg. of the FIrewire 400 device and ask them it if works using a Firewire 400 to USB2 cable. Does it work without any problems or noticeable difference, if they don't know, then maybe you should bring your Firewire 400 device to a local Apple Store and plug it in and HOPEFULLY they might have this cable in the store, if not, it will cost you the drive, time and $30 to get a cable to see if it will work. IF so, GREAT. If not, then you either have to save money and buy a MacBook Pro, or figure another solution to the problem.
I personally don't think most people will have a big problem, but if you do your homework before hand, you'll know before you spend the money on the laptop. USB2 is 480 Mbps. and FIrewwire 400 is 400 Mbps.
Comments
We are talking about Macbooks 13", Blu-Ray writers/readers.
Couldn't find a laptop under $3000 with Blu-Ray writer ($500) http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=16154
Next time send links.
The VAIO Z can be configured with BD recording for $2799. It's the model I'm considering since Apple doesn't want my money anymore. That said, the Z is more akin to a Macbook Pro (two graphics cards, full expansion) and a high res 1600x900 screen. It is nearly a full pound lighter than the MacBook thanks to carbon fiber construction. The most direct competition for the MacBook is the VAIO SR.
Well its Sony. Blu-ray is their format. They want people to adopt it so they make lots of money on licensing.
You realize that Apple is a big member of the BluRay consortium, right?
The 12" PB has a thicker case that isn't tapered on the edges like the new MB.
True. But the majority of the difference is in the height (3cm for the 12", 2.41cm of the 13.3".)
I don't think the logic board was the reason for the difference in height. Usually, it's the DVD and Battery that make the difference there.
It depends I think. The 12" Powerbook had a battery really small compared to the new MB battery. Apple could cut some battery size in the MB in favor of connectivity, but this would harm the power autonomy of the machine. It is obviously a matter of priorities and decision.
This is likely one of the biggest reasons. As Murch said, the NVidia chip probably doesn't come with FW built in, and so the decision was made to leave it out and make more room for a bigger battery.
In my view (and obviously many, many others) this was a bad decision. The 12" PowerBook had decent battery life and so would have the MacBook, even if there was a slight drop in battery life.
On the other hand, the 'extra' battery we've gained has meant the loss of Target Disk Mode, outdated fairly new (and better performing) peripherals, sub-par Time Machine performance and has destabilized the entire future of Firewire on the Mac.
Who made this decision, and has he been fired yet?
The only thing Consumer about this product is actually the lack of Firewire. The rest is just pure and sheer top of the line.
Apple could actually introduce another notebook mimicking the MacBook Air specs and ports and call it a consumer product. That would be more like it.
This was a typical Prince McLean Apple shill article attempting to rationalize Apple's bad decisions. He is like an Apple version of Thurott, only worse. Here's what wrong-
He says there are numerous alternatives to Target Disk Mode- then neglects to mention they don't work if the Target computer isn't bootable, which is where TDM really comes in handy.
While I agree with your criticism, I don't see Target Disk Mode as useful as others seem to think. If the machine is not bootable merely because the OS is corrupted then you can use a linux live disc to take data off of the drive. Furthermore, if the only thing stopping the machine from booting is a logical error in partition table you can boot off a Disc Warrior disc and repair the errors and MacOS magically comes back from the dead. For data transfer off of machines that can't boot I have used linux discs on several Intel Macs without issue so TDM isn't necessary in this circumstance either. Any real tech and even a lot of wannabe techs are going to have an external DVD drive so even if the internal drive is FUBAR you can still boot.
About the only circumstance where TDM would really help in troubleshooting is if the motherboard still could read the HDD, the HDD wasn't physically damaged and for whatever reason no video output could be outputed out of the Mac. Furthermore, merely because the machine can boot doesn't mean TDM works properly. I was once diagnosing a G4 PowerMac and I couldn't read anything off the HDD through TDM. I pulled the HDD connected it up through a USB to ATA adapter and all the data was still there.
TDM is a slightly easier means of data migration from an old Mac to a new Mac, but as a troubleshooting tool it is a bit overrated. Contrary to what you and others have made it out to be it isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. It is useful in a few select cases where you otherwise might have to pull the HDD, but it hardly is as big loss as people make it out to be. I am not saying I wouldn't miss the loss of the feature, but I don't see it as a huge loss.
He talks about how FW isn't important in hard drives with the emergence of eSATA. Too bad not a single Mac includes eSATA ports.
Just a thought, but maybe Apple should have put an eSATA port on both the MB and the MBP. It isn't a stretch of the imagination to say that there are more devices with eSATA then there are FW. There are without a doubt millions of external hard drives out there with eSATA in the hands of customers. Performance wise, eSATA makes FW400 obsolete for external storage. Furthermore, Apple already filed a patent for something that resembles target disk mode for eSATA. If they included eSATA on their computers, the TDM argument for FW would vanish. The only reason AFAIK Apple needs to retain FW anything is for AV equipment that is FW only.
Then he says it was because of a lack of space (total BS) and as a neccessary cost cutting measure. They raised the price $200 but can't afford the extra dollar or two it would add to their cost? Apple can surely make up for it with all the $30 Display Port adapters they're forcing people with external monitors to buy.
I will wholeheartedly agree that Apple's arguments on why they excluded it on the MB seem flimsy. The chipset on the MB no doubt supports FW400/800 so the only cost would be the connector (~$1) and another hole in the chassis(<$1). The profit margin on the MB is great enough that if the inclusion of the port only sold 5% more MBs it would more than make up for the ~$1 of additional cost per MB. I seriously doubt anyone would not buy the MB because Apple included something they would use. I sold computers for a while and realize that plenty of average end users buy computers with all sorts of features that they never use. Provided that the inclusion has a positive return on investment Apple should include it.
In Apple's view, you're either Suzy Homemaker who uses a computer to check her Myspace page, build iTunes playlists, and transfer pics of her kids soccer games or you're an in demand professional with a personal assistant, a six figure budget and a view of the skyline from your office. There are TONS of us in between that.
I don't think Apple is ignorant, I just think that they purposely try to push their users into more profitable models. Within reason every companies does this, but Apple just seems to be more aggressive about pushing users into higher end models by selling stripped down models.
Steve Jobs has finally lost it. (Well, actually he's been a bit loopy for the past year.)
Time for him to go.
Steve Jobs is such an arrogant and cocky CEO! He did not even investigate the Camcorder market and affronts apple's loyal customers with such a cheap answer. I'm surprised, that he didn't close his e-mail with the famous 2 words f... you.
Really, it's time to go, mr. jobs. We won't cry!!!
Steve Jobs is such an arrogant and cocky CEO! He did not even investigate the Camcorder market and affronts apple's loyal customers with such a cheap answer. I'm surprised, that he didn't close his e-mail with the famous 2 words f... you.
Really, it's time to go, mr. jobs. We won't cry!!!
Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?
The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.
Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.
Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?
The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.
Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.
You don't seem to understand. USB is an inferior architecture. If you attempt to combine two you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator. You cannot take a technology like FW with supports simulataneous read/write and excellent isochronous support and "magically" retain those features using a USB port.
I think people are well aware of the $700 tax they must now pay, evidently more aware of this fact than you are of the technical foibles in your statement.
I don't think Apple is ignorant, I just think that they purposely try to push their users into more profitable models. Within reason every companies does this, but Apple just seems to be more aggressive about pushing users into higher end models by selling stripped down models.
Not only more aggressive. More blatant, obvious, and insulting to an Apple user's mindset and sensibility. In a word, AAPL's exclusion of FW in the MB is "chintzy"!
You don't seem to understand. USB is an inferior architecture. If you attempt to combine two you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator. You cannot take a technology like FW with supports simulataneous read/write and excellent isochronous support and "magically" retain those features using a USB port.
I think people are well aware of the $700 tax they must now pay, evidently more aware of this fact than you are of the technical foibles in your statement.
+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional audio interfaces (for recording).
Everyone's talking about video and Firewire support, but people don't seem to have mentioned Pro-Audio that much.
Most pro-audio users do not necessarily need better graphics or a bigger screen, but Firewire has become an industry standard for fast, affordable high quality audio.
Look at how many professional musicians use macbooks on stage or in the studio. Just because it doesn't say "pro" doesn't mean that thousands of professionals don't use it.
Those thousands of users are going to lose support for their peripheral audio hardware, many of whom have spent $1000's on their Firewire interfaces alone.
As professionals we aren't going to let the hardware companies tell us what we need. We know our needs, and it's ridiculous to have to spend nearly another $1000 just for Firewire support and a bunch of features we don't need.
You realize that Apple is a big member of the BluRay consortium, right?
Yes I do know that. Apple agreed to support Blu-ray, but ultimately its still Sony's format.
Steve noted the high price of licensing fees is why Apple is in no rush to adopt Blu-ray.
+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional audio interfaces (for recording).
Everyone's talking about video and Firewire support, but people don't seem to have mentioned Pro-Audio that much.
Yes we've discussed audio several times and several time its been suggested that you have the option of:
-Continuing to use your current machine
-Purchase the earlier MacBook for $999
-Purchase a new or earlier MacBook Pro.
-4 of Apple's 6 computers use FW, choose any one
+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional audio interfaces (for recording).
Everyone's talking about video and Firewire support, but people don't seem to have mentioned Pro-Audio that much.
Most pro-audio users do not necessarily need better graphics or a bigger screen, but Firewire has become an industry standard for fast, affordable high quality audio.
Look at how many professional musicians use macbooks on stage or in the studio. Just because it doesn't say "pro" doesn't mean that thousands of professionals don't use it.
Those thousands of users are going to lose support for their peripheral audio hardware, many of whom have spent $1000's on their Firewire interfaces alone.
As professionals we aren't going to let the hardware companies tell us what we need. We know our needs, and it's ridiculous to have to spend nearly another $1000 just for Firewire support and a bunch of features we don't need.
Exactly. My old but solid G4 PB Logic Pro setup with a FW Motu Traveller and a Neumann U87 allows me to record anywhere, and like you say, many pros have multiple systems, so a solid, small, functional portable is perfect for location work and lugging. And when i'm back in the studio i use one of our Mac Pros.
Oh...and i could cope marginally better with the loss of FW400, but only two USB ports?! i never buy USB2 only HDDs for those times when you need to use it via FW to free up a port. Also, my little bus powered LaCie is quite fussy about how much power it gets (i.e. on a 15" PB USB it doesn't work, on a 12" PB USB it does!)...so if USB is the only option i have to use a sodding power-sharing cable.
You don't seem to understand. USB is an inferior architecture. If you attempt to combine two you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator. You cannot take a technology like FW with supports simulataneous read/write and excellent isochronous support and "magically" retain those features using a USB port.
I think people are well aware of the $700 tax they must now pay, evidently more aware of this fact than you are of the technical foibles in your statement.
Does it work? It may not be the best overall solution, but it is a less expensive solution. I haven't seen too many differences in a FIrewire 400 vs. USB2 drive scenario. Yeah, USB is not a great solution for hard drives, it's more for keyboards/mice/input devices. Firewire 800 is more costly and some can justify the expense and some can't. But for $700 more, they get a LOT more than just a Firewire 400/800 port. They get a larger screen, bigger hard drive, etc., etc.
Most people that buy an entry level system probably won't notice a HUGE difference since they are already buying an entry level system and they know that a more expensive system will give them more options. People have just been used to buying Apples and having FIrewire 400, but Firewire 400 is like USB 1 and USB 1 is going away in place of USB2. So, it is just a progression. I am sure the same discussion will happen if and when Apple comes out with FIrewire 1600 or Firewire 3200, or FIrewire 6400.
Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?
The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.
Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.
I really accept your objection, but if it would not be a problem for the customer, there would not have such a big thread about this. Why mr. jobs risks to affront all these customers? Because he can? This is really arrogant.
+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional
As professionals we aren't going to let the hardware companies tell us what we need. We know our needs, and it's ridiculous to have to spend nearly another $1000 just for Firewire support and a bunch of features we don't need.
You are absolutely right man!!! Mr jobs ignores the user's needs. FW is important. I don't know, if an USB to FW adapter works the same way as a native FW port. But really bad is, that the new MacBook doesnt' support the target mode. It saved me in the past my "computerlife" when my display was dead. It's absolutely arrogant if somebody tell me to buy the old model only to get more features. Absolutely ridiculous!
I really accept your objection, but if it would not be a problem for the customer, there would not have such a big thread about this. Why mr. jobs risks to affront all these customers? Because he can? This is really arrogant.
The customer? They sell millions of Macbooks. There are 600 posts in this thread. HOw many individuals users do you think are in this thread? 200? 300?
HOw many of htose are complaining? How many of those complaining do you think are in the market for a MB in the next year? How many really truly need FW?
By the time you get done maybe 50 people might actually be concerned about this.
That pales in comparison to the millions of MBs Apple sells.
I know it sucks to be those that live and die on a MB with FW and can't or won't look at another option, but you can't please everyone when you are selling 1 product to millions of consumers.
I really accept your objection, but if it would not be a problem for the customer, there would not have such a big thread about this. Why mr. jobs risks to affront all these customers? Because he can? This is really arrogant.
I know, have you seen the MacBook? Is there any physical room to put a Firewire 400 or 800 port? I don't see any room for it while being able to do the things that apparently get more people wanting to do.
I know the Pro Audio crowd has a lot of Firewire 400 interfaces. Has anyone tried to use a USB2 to Firewire 400 cable to see if it works? Maybe it will just fine and no one will really notice. There are cables on the market for this. I mean, if it is a noticeable problem and it just simply won't work, I can understand. My background in Pro Audio is that you get the top end model and don't even bother with the low end laptops, it's not worth it, even if it works. Pro Audio guys need a decent size screen to see the apps like Logic, Pro Tools, etc., so a 15 inch screen is way better, plus getting larger hard drives is ALWAYS a plus. But I would find out if using a USB2 to FIrewire 400 cable will actually work for your particular device first, because if it works, it works, there are at least two of these ports on the MacBook, but for me personally, I don't even consider the MacBook as I want all of the attributes of the high models when I look for a new machine. If I can't afford it, then I at least have a machine that does work. HIgh end models instinctually have a longer useful life than an entry level model. If one amortizes $1,000 over the lifespan of the ownership of a laptop of let's say 36 months typically, that's about $30 a month, which is not THAT much money to pay out for a top end laptop.
I want something fast, high quality and cheap. Pick two, you usually can't have all three. :-)
Steve Jobs is such an arrogant and cocky CEO! He did not even investigate the Camcorder market and affronts apple's loyal customers with such a cheap answer. I'm surprised, that he didn't close his e-mail with the famous 2 words f... you.
Really, it's time to go, mr. jobs. We won't cry!!!
Steve Jobs is the best thing to ever happen to Apple the company was nearly bankrupt until he came back, and now Apple makes some of the best computers you can buy. Also, if you really need firewire so bad go buy an adapter and if your gonna switch to PC have fun but we don't need to hear about it because we can't do anything to fix it.
I personally don't think most people will have a big problem, but if you do your homework before hand, you'll know before you spend the money on the laptop. USB2 is 480 Mbps. and FIrewwire 400 is 400 Mbps.