Inside the new MacBooks: Audio and Video

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  • Reply 41 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fishbert View Post


    And it also appears to require both the Mini DisplayPort and a free USB port -- i.e., if it can be used with the MacBook Air, you have no more USB ports.



    This is likely incorrect. The USB connection is for the hub in the monitor.



    No, the USB connection supplies the adapter with power. It has nothing to do with any USB hub that may or may not be in someone's monitor.



    For a DisplayPort signal to be converted to dual-link DVI signal, active circuitry must be used (as opposed to a single-link DVI signal, which requires only passive circuitry).
  • Reply 42 of 103
    FWIW, i own a 17 MBP with its (uncharacteristically) big ugly dual link dvi connector. I have to carry an adapter whenever i visit conf. rooms due to vga projectors. I think most people who have to connect into a large lcd in the office, and want to hook into projectors etc are already used to keeping the adapters in the bag. My point - whatever connector Apple used would be equally inconvenient. In fact this new connector has excellent tech. specs, and is small.



    Despite my main 'PC" being a 17MBP, I couldn't resist a new 2.4 MB (unibody) I like it so much I am now using it as my main 'PC' Whatever people think about the price, the standard of construction and physical quality of the new unibody MB is incredible. For those that have only seen it on the web - wait until you get one in your hands. Its hard to believe they could improve something so well made (previous generation), but they did. The new glass trackpad took me an hour or so to like, and again its a huge improvement. The 2.4MHz and graphics chip make this computer scream, and it barely gets warm! I will give it up only when the next gen 17MBP is available.



    Since this article is about audio, the only shortcoming with the MB is the quality (or lack) with the built in speakers.



    I don't consider myself a FAN BOY, and must use vmware-fusion daily just so I can use the embedded compilers, however I would be proud to have been involved in bringing a product this good to market
  • Reply 43 of 103
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Is mini Display Port part of the standard yet?



    There is a bit of precedence. As it is, there aren't any cables with mini-DVI on one end, you have to buy one of Apple's dongle adapters and connect it to a cable with full DVI connectors. Mini-DVI is a connector that only Apple uses as far as I can tell.



    Apple also used mini-VGA in the iBook. From what I've seen their is no evidence that Apple blocked the other members of The Digital Display Working Group from using micro or mini DVI.



    I see no reason why Apple would have blocked other from using these ports. Their would be less need for adaptors if DVI and DP are adopted widely across the electronics industry.
  • Reply 44 of 103
    I wish Apple would confirm that Mini Displayport has audio out and they will be making adapters to standard DisplayPort and HDMI. If that is the case, I'm totally fine with the Mini DisplayPort and it would probably be the best thing out there.
  • Reply 45 of 103
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,113member
    Good grief. It'll be all of 24 to 48 hours before someone with one of the new MBs or MBPs actually tests an adapter with speakers to see whether the Mini DisplayPort actually does feed audio. I hope the more anxious thumbsuckers who are posting here don't rip all the skin off their opposable digits before then. As for me, if you haven't found out by Wednesday, I'll try to check it out for you. My new MB is in the air over the Pacific at the moment!
  • Reply 46 of 103
    Apple's obsession with skinny laptops are the reason we've got a clusterf*** of minPorts.
  • Reply 47 of 103
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,113member
    Let's think this thing through for a minute. The marketing web pages for the new 24" LED Cinema Display note that the three-connector power-USB-Mini DisplayPort cable provides a data connection for the three-port USB hub on the back of the display. Most likely those USB ports are powered by the display, not by the computer. In fact, an iPod or iPhone can be left connected to the display back USB ports for charging while the computer is disconnected.
  • Reply 48 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post


    Good grief. It'll be all of 24 to 48 hours before someone with one of the new MBs or MBPs actually tests an adapter with speakers to see whether the Mini DisplayPort actually does feed audio. I hope the more anxious thumbsuckers who are posting here don't rip all the skin off their opposable digits before then. As for me, if you haven't found out by Wednesday, I'll try to check it out for you. My new MB is in the air over the Pacific at the moment!



    And how do you plan to check for audio out? With the VGA adapter or the DVI adapter? Not likely because they don't carry audio. You can't connect Mini Displayport to anything with speakers - only the Apple adapters. That's the problem.
  • Reply 49 of 103
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Apple's obsession with skinny laptops are the reason we've got a clusterf*** of minPorts.



    That's not the problem. The problem is the industry is stagnated to the lowest common denominator, VGA.



    If the electronics industry by and large had moved on to DVI - a mini DVI to full DVI cable would be no big deal. The same holds for DP.
  • Reply 50 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Apple also used mini-VGA in the iBook. From what I've seen their is no evidence that Apple blocked the other members of The Digital Display Working Group from using micro or mini DVI.



    I see no reason why Apple would have blocked other from using these ports. Their would be less need for adaptors if DVI and DP are adopted widely across the electronics industry.



    Why should they? Most people are going to have a VGA or DVI cable laying around or both (most LCDs you buy will come with both cables), and there's plenty of room on 15" laptops for plenty of ports, without adding something smaller; there's just no reason for PC OEMs to add something specific on their end, and it ends up causing less hassle for the end consumers, especially in IT departments, when there will be video cables and VGA/DVI adapters laying around. Standardizing to DVI ports would be nice for everybody, but Apple can't even really do that, without requiring an adapter of some sort, because they have to make their laptops so small.



    So it is Apple's mess, they're the ones going to mini ports that no one else uses, even if it is based around a full size standard. It would be like selling a laptop with nothing but USB mini B ports to save space, and wondering why everyone doesn't adapt - it's based on a standard, but a bastardized variant no one uses ATM for that use.
  • Reply 51 of 103
    ksecksec Posts: 1,562member
    Guys, Please Claim Down.



    Mini DisplayPort is a draft VESA Standard. It is properly like Draft N in Router. But Apple decided to JumpStart.



    May be apple finally decide Mini DVI is simply not good enough.



    The main problem is will other industry player follow suit to include Mini Display Port
  • Reply 52 of 103
    jsonjson Posts: 54member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fishbert View Post


    No, the USB connection supplies the adapter with power. It has nothing to do with any USB hub that may or may not be in someone's monitor.



    For a DisplayPort signal to be converted to dual-link DVI signal, active circuitry must be used (as opposed to a single-link DVI signal, which requires only passive circuitry).



    Couldn't you use one of the USB ports on the display (cinema displays have usb ports don't they) to drive the dual link adapter?



    But if those ports don't supply enough power you would of course have to use a powered usb hub, which is not very convenient.....
  • Reply 53 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guinness View Post


    Standardizing to DVI ports would be nice for everybody, but Apple can't even really do that, without requiring an adapter of some sort, because they have to make their laptops so small.



    So it is Apple's mess, they're the ones going to mini ports that no one else uses, even if it is based around a full size standard. It would be like selling a laptop with nothing but USB mini B ports to save space, and wondering why everyone doesn't adapt - it's based on a standard, but a bastardized variant no one uses ATM for that use.



    Standardizing DVI ports would be nice? I have had a DVI port on my Powerbook 6 years ago when most PC laptops didn't even support external monitors. Apple is finally moving on.



    Sounds like you would be better off with a cheap PC laptop. SInce they are build with desktop components they'll be plenty big and clunky with lots of space for those extra vintage ports.



    I can't believe how many people on these forums are searching so hard to find faults. If you don't like it don't buy it.
  • Reply 54 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by json View Post


    Couldn't you use one of the USB ports on the display (cinema displays have usb ports don't they) to drive the dual link adapter?



    Only if you put the Mini DisplayPort jack on the laptop about 6" away from the monitor... the picture of the adapter on Apple's website doesn't make it look like you can do this easily.
  • Reply 55 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    The point of DP is to be an open standard. To patent any part of it is counter productive and I'm sure violates the agreement to use the standard. Apple supports many open standards.



    The point of open standards is to allow anyone to be free to use the mini-port and third parties will be free to make full to mini connectors.



    DisplayPort is the open standard, not Mini DisplayPort, and we don't know if the mini version will ever be part of the standard. Besides, Apple have a slightly-skewed view regarding the use of open standards within proprietary products. Think AAC or Safari. (And yes, I do know that there is nothing actually wrong in the way they interpret and implement those standards, but they do tend to operate to "the letter of the law, rather than its spirit".)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Is mini Display Port part of the standard yet?



    There is a bit of precedence. As it is, there aren't any cables with mini-DVI on one end, you have to buy one of Apple's dongle adapters and connect it to a cable with full DVI connectors. Mini-DVI is a connector that only Apple uses as far as I can tell.



    Admittedly, I've only skimmed the (238 page) specs and compliance doc, but I can find no mention of a "Mini DisplayPort" at all.



    Your point about Apple's use of mini DVI (and mini VGA before it) and the total lack of third-party adapters is exactly what I'm worried about. Why will any 3rd party want to manufacture niche products when the rest of the industry is using the full standard?



    And if it does come down to adapters only being available from Apple, what are we to make of the lack of a Mini DisplayPort to Video adapter? S-Video and Composite may be old tech within the entertainment industry, but they're still vital for connecting to video mixers such as the Edirol V4 and V8, the industry standards for performing VJs.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ksec View Post


    Mini DisplayPort is a draft VESA Standard. It is properly like Draft N in Router.



    *snip*



    Do you have a link to support your assertion? I can find no mention of it in the current documentation. I would like nothing more than to be reassured.
  • Reply 56 of 103
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post


    Worse than Microsoft? While I prefer matte screens myself, could you point out which other PC maker offers laptops with matte or glossy screens?



    The Sony Z offers something more advanced than either of those options- a hybrid screen on their laptops.The colors, contrast, and saturation are that of a glossy screen, however, it has a new matte-like screen finish that diffuses glare and improves outside readability.
  • Reply 57 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jwdawso View Post


    You are being too short sighted. There may not be room in their future products.



    Reserve mini/micro/nano/whatever Display Port for these future product, then, and use damn full size when you have room.

    Can't see why they've this urge to annoy current products users.

    Do you expect that the whole market will go mini just because Apple put it on a couple of laptops?.
  • Reply 58 of 103
    dr_lhadr_lha Posts: 236member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fishbert View Post


    And here I thought AppleInsider was claiming that Mini DisplayPort was "backwardly compatible with VGA, DVI, and dual-link DVI..."



    You misread what they said: the compatibility is not both ways. DisplayPort can drive a DVI/VGA monitor, but a DVI/VGA port cannot without a very expensive converter (i.e. a lot more than the $29 adapters Apple sells) drive a DisplayPort only monitor like Apple's new Cinema display. This is why it is only compatible with the new laptops.
  • Reply 59 of 103
    cubertcubert Posts: 728member
    I believe that the mini-Display Port used by Apple is part of the standard specification and was NOT invented by Apple.



    And, no, I didn't read every post here on this forum, so this may already be a moot point.
  • Reply 60 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    The Sony Z offers something more advanced than either of those options- a hybrid screen on their laptops.The colors, contrast, and saturation are that of a glossy screen, however, it has a new matte-like screen finish that diffuses glare and improves outside readability.



    Read up a little bit about it but failed to find anything that would consider it "advanced". It more a less a matte screen with boosted color saturation.



    How that screen fits in with color correctness appears unclear as I couldn't find any reviews. Love to hear from graphic/video professionals that use this laptop. It may be better or it may be inferior by compromising the attributes of either screen type...
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