I hope we are going to see Mini feature in the iMac event next month as the "One more thing". I really wanna get my parents a mini to save them from all those Windows hassles.
I don't want to make this thread too repetitive, but it's safe to list what we can DEFINITELY expect come November:
There will be the iMac update that will move to nVidia chips and DisplayPort. If they're gonna kill the mini, it won't be mentioned during this time and that'll be the end. If they will continue to support that market segment, then they'll announce a revamped mini with the same nVidia chips, DisplayPort, more recent (notice not necessarily faster) CPU's, more RAM, larger HDD's, etc...
All that is for certain. What's not for certain is if they're going to kill the mini or not.
Another catch-22 no body mentioned is that although one may think that Apple uses the mini to sort of 'lure' people into the Mac experience at a low-price point in the hopes that they'll buy into a more expensive iMac, one may fail to realize that the mini is so underpowered compared to other similarly priced alternatives that it no longer is able to 'lure' anybody anymore to begin with!
I love my PPC Mini, it's been running 24/7 for 4 years now. Never let's me down. It's my main machine.
Update it Apple! They could even make it a little larger and I'd still be happy. They don't need a mini tower, that sucks. Make a slightly larger, more easily upgradable Mini! I'll buy one the day it comes out!
I still don't get what the obsession is with making the Mini smaller. This is a desktop computer.
Agreed. This is why I have always thought Apple should have maybe a slimline tower with some type of Apple panache that uses 3.5" HDDs so that it would make a perfect little Apple branded media center. The 2.5" HDD makes the Mac Mini small, but it forces the tradeoff of smaller capacity hard drives. I would obviously prefer a minitower, but even a mid range $800 slimline media center with TV Tuner and a 750GB or 1TB hard drive that offered a really intuitive UI would be a hot seller. Another option would be to have a home theater PC form factor so that you would place it on your television stand. There have been a few vendors(eg. Sony) that have made forays into this market, but Windows Media Center has never really captured the imagination of the masses.
Short of removing the optical drive Apple couldn't really make the Mac Mini any thinner. I am befuddled by the constant hum drum about how we need to make everything thinner and more chic even at the cost of features that people actually use. While Apple has brought in a lot of customers by getting associated with chic factor, there is a point where you can make form factor so important that you alienate a lot of your existing customers that use Macs for reasons other than having a pretty looking computer.
Personally I would like to see Apple retain the current Mac Mini design, but introduce also introduce a Mac media center box as well. Obviously with the Mac Mini Apple needs to make an obligatory bump in the processor in chipset and CPU since Intel is discontinuing the components used in the Mac Mini and slight improvement in HDD wouldn't cost much. I would also like to see Apple slightly cut the price to $550 if not $499. I wouldn't want Apple going any lower than that because they would start losing too much margin to the point where they would start losing money, but at the current price point the Mac Mini isn't very effective at bring customers into the Apple fold. With a slightly lower price point they would be able to pique the interest of a lot more customers which would bring a lot more users into the Apple userbase.
It will never be seen. Obviously, and as Apple well knows, only pros buy a computer without a monitor.
Tell that to the gazillion WinPC users out there. Their PCs die and they go to Best Buy and get another for $500. Apple needs to continue to offer the same (mini, at a higher price than PCs of course). Most computer buyers aren't buying monitors at the same time. (Or perhaps you were being sarcastic.)
On another subject, what's this thought that Apple will again be making monitors that connect only to their own products? Didn't they try and fail miserably with ADC several years ago? ADC was the biggest hassle ever invented. There's no way I would buy a monitor with a magsafe power supply hanging off it, glossy display and mini DisplayPort as the only options; especially for $900. What is Apple thinking? If they want to push mini DisplayPort and magsafe connectors, DVI should be there too. And matte screens for people who aren't into shiny things. Duh.
I hope the new 24" display is a one-of-a-kind product for the MacBooks and it ends there.
...I have always thought Apple should have maybe a slimline tower with some type of Apple panache that uses 3.5" HDDs so that it would make a perfect little Apple branded media center. The 2.5" HDD makes the Mac Mini small, but it forces the tradeoff of smaller capacity hard drives.
When are people going to get a clue about hard drives?? You can get 500 GB 2.5 inch hard drives now with performance that's competitive with 3.5 inch drives. There are very few consumers that have any need for anything larger or faster, and those that do can use external drives. The 3.5 inch form factor will probably disappear completely in the consumer market within the next year or two.
If Apple doesn't do anything else with the mini, if they update the graphics, I'll be a happy camper. And I suspect sales will pick up quite nicely, too.
When are people going to get a clue about hard drives?? You can get 500 GB 2.5 inch hard drives now with performance that's competitive with 3.5 inch drives. There are very few consumers that have any need for anything larger or faster, and those that do can use external drives. The 3.5 inch form factor will probably disappear completely in the consumer market within the next year or two.
this may be true: but the mac mini uses laptop components right?
If it were bigger and could use desktop components wouldn't it be cheaper?
On another subject, what's this thought that Apple will again be making monitors that connect only to their own products? Didn't they try and fail miserably with ADC several years ago? ADC was the biggest hassle ever invented.
If there are adaptors, it should be ok. Perhaps Apple are banking on people adopting Mini-Displayport given that Displayport isn't implemented widely. Similar deal with AAC and online music. Trouble is, they aren't going to achieve a wide adoption with the prices they've put on both their displays and computer models. If there is no way for a PC to connect to their displays and Mini-Displayport isn't adopted as some sort of standard, I could see it ending up similar to ADC.
This will only affect their display line though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave
There's no way I would buy a monitor with a magsafe power supply hanging off it
Definitely not if you don't have a machine requiring magsafe - it looks a bit dangerous to have that floating about. Like if there's a screwdriver sitting on your desk, what if it hits the contacts? I guess you could always put a cap on it. I'm not sure where the cables come from either. There is the standard AC cable powering the display and the 3-plug cable comes from somewhere but I can't see the port on the back.
I presume the display must have a kensington lock on it somewhere too.
This is one reason the Mini might get magsafe though. Imagine not having the power brick at all. You would just have one power cable like the iMac. If they made the display 1/3 the price and matte, I'd be very interested in that.
When are people going to get a clue about hard drives?? You can get 500 GB 2.5 inch hard drives now with performance that's competitive with 3.5 inch drives. There are very few consumers that have any need for anything larger or faster, and those that do can use external drives. The 3.5 inch form factor will probably disappear completely in the consumer market within the next year or two.
Here's a clue.... There are only two 500GB drives in 2.5" size that I can find: one by Samsung and one by Hitachi. They both cost about $65 to $75 more than the large number of 500GB drives in 3.5" size. How many people would trade the current mini's size for one with the footprint of Apple TV (only 1.2" larger on the side) if it resulted in a computer that cost $65 to $75 less? I sure would.
Also, if I follow your logic I come to the conclusion that Apple should be building iMacs with 2.5" drives, not the 3.5" drives that they use.
I think the Mini will be phased out in favour of an updated Apple TV. The Apple TV could be significantly improved with a software update (Take 3), to become a more stand-alone media/home server machine.
Take 3 features:
- iTunes (stand-alone)
- Safari
- External disks via USB
- Keyboard and mouse
Adding those features would make it very attractive package. Perhaps too good.
A dream would be adding AppStore, with games and applications - but I don't see that as very likely.
This is one reason the Mini might get magsafe though. Imagine not having the power brick at all. You would just have one power cable like the iMac. If they made the display 1/3 the price and matte, I'd be very interested in that.
If it has a miniDP ... couldn't you potentially buy the new monitor and power the mini just the same as you could power a laptop.
It seems weirdly close to the iMac, but far enough away that it could work.
If Apple does update the Mac mini, do you think they will change that big brick of a power adapter to Mag Safe? Then folks that wanted the Apple display could power their Mac mini through their display.
I was also concerned about whether the mac mini line will continue. So I spoke with executive support @apple and they gave every indication that a refresh of some sort will occur in due time. They know the mini is popular and fills a unique niche for their corporate end education buyers. Apple is not going to tip their hand, so we will wait and see....
I was also concerned about whether the mac mini line will continue. So I spoke with executive support @apple and they gave every indication that a refresh of some sort will occur in due time. They know the mini is popular and fills a unique niche for their corporate end education buyers. Apple is not going to tip their hand, so we will wait and see....
What sort of indications? Did they actually say that they're planning an update?
Today's article about Nvidia from AppleInsider mentions that they receieved a challenge from an unknown source to make their next desktop offering small enough for media center PCs. I'd bet that source was Apple and they were talking about the Mini. The Mini was meant to draw PC users, many of whom are gamers. Without a discrete graphics card, though, it was clear that the Mini could not be used as a modern gaming machine. It looks like that could change.
Well it seems Gizmodo has offered up Yet Another Story that the Mini is dead. Remains to be seen. I have a hunch that something might be announced during the financials report later today. Guess we'll see.
Personally, I need a laptop and would like a sister desktop but there's no way I can afford a Macbook Pro and a Mac Pro nor do I need all that horsepower. I could justify a Macbook Pro and an inexpensive but feature rich desktop... probably never happen though.
What sort of indications? Did they actually say that they're planning an update?
Today's article about Nvidia from AppleInsider mentions that they receieved a challenge from an unknown source to make their next desktop offering small enough for media center PCs. I'd bet that source was Apple and they were talking about the Mini. The Mini was meant to draw PC users, many of whom are gamers. Without a discrete graphics card, though, it was clear that the Mini could not be used as a modern gaming machine. It looks like that could change.
on board video that uses system ram with no pci-e slot does not make a modern gaming machine.
Apple is currently telling at least some retailers not to expect further Mac mini shipments, according to reports sent to Gizmodo. At least two "major" European outlets say they have been told by Apple not to anticipate more units of the small desktop and get the impression from their Apple sources that the system has been discontinued outright and isn't just encountering a temporary interruption in supply.
Apple is currently telling at least some retailers not to expect further Mac mini shipments, according to reports sent to Gizmodo. At least two "major" European outlets say they have been told by Apple not to anticipate more units of the small desktop and get the impression from their Apple sources that the system has been discontinued outright and isn't just encountering a temporary interruption in supply.
If they do discontinue it and offer no replacement, Apple will have entry points for laptops at $999 (it's really $1299 though) and for desktops at $1199. That's just a very stupid thing to do right now.
I actually wouldn't mind seeing the Mini go *if* they replace it with a Cube. The impression that people get from a Mini is a lack of power and to some extent that's true but it's not really that bad.
A Cube suggests it's more powerful and since it's bigger, it can take cheaper parts. Even if they inflate the margins, a $600 or $700 Cube will be a profitable computer. At $400 less than the iMac, it will still sell.
They could possibly drop the entry price of the iMac though by using Nvidia integrated chips vs the ATI dedicated chips but I don't see it dropping very far.
It's still going to annoy a lot of people who use the Mini in all sorts of ways like server racks, as car stereos etc.
Comments
There will be the iMac update that will move to nVidia chips and DisplayPort. If they're gonna kill the mini, it won't be mentioned during this time and that'll be the end. If they will continue to support that market segment, then they'll announce a revamped mini with the same nVidia chips, DisplayPort, more recent (notice not necessarily faster) CPU's, more RAM, larger HDD's, etc...
All that is for certain. What's not for certain is if they're going to kill the mini or not.
Another catch-22 no body mentioned is that although one may think that Apple uses the mini to sort of 'lure' people into the Mac experience at a low-price point in the hopes that they'll buy into a more expensive iMac, one may fail to realize that the mini is so underpowered compared to other similarly priced alternatives that it no longer is able to 'lure' anybody anymore to begin with!
Update it Apple! They could even make it a little larger and I'd still be happy. They don't need a mini tower, that sucks. Make a slightly larger, more easily upgradable Mini! I'll buy one the day it comes out!
Tom
I still don't get what the obsession is with making the Mini smaller. This is a desktop computer.
Agreed. This is why I have always thought Apple should have maybe a slimline tower with some type of Apple panache that uses 3.5" HDDs so that it would make a perfect little Apple branded media center. The 2.5" HDD makes the Mac Mini small, but it forces the tradeoff of smaller capacity hard drives. I would obviously prefer a minitower, but even a mid range $800 slimline media center with TV Tuner and a 750GB or 1TB hard drive that offered a really intuitive UI would be a hot seller. Another option would be to have a home theater PC form factor so that you would place it on your television stand. There have been a few vendors(eg. Sony) that have made forays into this market, but Windows Media Center has never really captured the imagination of the masses.
Short of removing the optical drive Apple couldn't really make the Mac Mini any thinner. I am befuddled by the constant hum drum about how we need to make everything thinner and more chic even at the cost of features that people actually use. While Apple has brought in a lot of customers by getting associated with chic factor, there is a point where you can make form factor so important that you alienate a lot of your existing customers that use Macs for reasons other than having a pretty looking computer.
Personally I would like to see Apple retain the current Mac Mini design, but introduce also introduce a Mac media center box as well. Obviously with the Mac Mini Apple needs to make an obligatory bump in the processor in chipset and CPU since Intel is discontinuing the components used in the Mac Mini and slight improvement in HDD wouldn't cost much. I would also like to see Apple slightly cut the price to $550 if not $499. I wouldn't want Apple going any lower than that because they would start losing too much margin to the point where they would start losing money, but at the current price point the Mac Mini isn't very effective at bring customers into the Apple fold. With a slightly lower price point they would be able to pique the interest of a lot more customers which would bring a lot more users into the Apple userbase.
It will never be seen. Obviously, and as Apple well knows, only pros buy a computer without a monitor.
Tell that to the gazillion WinPC users out there. Their PCs die and they go to Best Buy and get another for $500. Apple needs to continue to offer the same (mini, at a higher price than PCs of course). Most computer buyers aren't buying monitors at the same time. (Or perhaps you were being sarcastic.)
On another subject, what's this thought that Apple will again be making monitors that connect only to their own products? Didn't they try and fail miserably with ADC several years ago? ADC was the biggest hassle ever invented. There's no way I would buy a monitor with a magsafe power supply hanging off it, glossy display and mini DisplayPort as the only options; especially for $900. What is Apple thinking? If they want to push mini DisplayPort and magsafe connectors, DVI should be there too. And matte screens for people who aren't into shiny things. Duh.
I hope the new 24" display is a one-of-a-kind product for the MacBooks and it ends there.
...I have always thought Apple should have maybe a slimline tower with some type of Apple panache that uses 3.5" HDDs so that it would make a perfect little Apple branded media center. The 2.5" HDD makes the Mac Mini small, but it forces the tradeoff of smaller capacity hard drives.
When are people going to get a clue about hard drives?? You can get 500 GB 2.5 inch hard drives now with performance that's competitive with 3.5 inch drives. There are very few consumers that have any need for anything larger or faster, and those that do can use external drives. The 3.5 inch form factor will probably disappear completely in the consumer market within the next year or two.
When are people going to get a clue about hard drives?? You can get 500 GB 2.5 inch hard drives now with performance that's competitive with 3.5 inch drives. There are very few consumers that have any need for anything larger or faster, and those that do can use external drives. The 3.5 inch form factor will probably disappear completely in the consumer market within the next year or two.
this may be true: but the mac mini uses laptop components right?
If it were bigger and could use desktop components wouldn't it be cheaper?
On another subject, what's this thought that Apple will again be making monitors that connect only to their own products? Didn't they try and fail miserably with ADC several years ago? ADC was the biggest hassle ever invented.
If there are adaptors, it should be ok. Perhaps Apple are banking on people adopting Mini-Displayport given that Displayport isn't implemented widely. Similar deal with AAC and online music. Trouble is, they aren't going to achieve a wide adoption with the prices they've put on both their displays and computer models. If there is no way for a PC to connect to their displays and Mini-Displayport isn't adopted as some sort of standard, I could see it ending up similar to ADC.
This will only affect their display line though.
There's no way I would buy a monitor with a magsafe power supply hanging off it
Definitely not if you don't have a machine requiring magsafe - it looks a bit dangerous to have that floating about. Like if there's a screwdriver sitting on your desk, what if it hits the contacts? I guess you could always put a cap on it. I'm not sure where the cables come from either. There is the standard AC cable powering the display and the 3-plug cable comes from somewhere but I can't see the port on the back.
I presume the display must have a kensington lock on it somewhere too.
This is one reason the Mini might get magsafe though. Imagine not having the power brick at all. You would just have one power cable like the iMac. If they made the display 1/3 the price and matte, I'd be very interested in that.
When are people going to get a clue about hard drives?? You can get 500 GB 2.5 inch hard drives now with performance that's competitive with 3.5 inch drives. There are very few consumers that have any need for anything larger or faster, and those that do can use external drives. The 3.5 inch form factor will probably disappear completely in the consumer market within the next year or two.
Here's a clue.... There are only two 500GB drives in 2.5" size that I can find: one by Samsung and one by Hitachi. They both cost about $65 to $75 more than the large number of 500GB drives in 3.5" size. How many people would trade the current mini's size for one with the footprint of Apple TV (only 1.2" larger on the side) if it resulted in a computer that cost $65 to $75 less? I sure would.
Also, if I follow your logic I come to the conclusion that Apple should be building iMacs with 2.5" drives, not the 3.5" drives that they use.
I think the Mini will be phased out in favour of an updated Apple TV. The Apple TV could be significantly improved with a software update (Take 3), to become a more stand-alone media/home server machine.
Take 3 features:
- iTunes (stand-alone)
- Safari
- External disks via USB
- Keyboard and mouse
Adding those features would make it very attractive package. Perhaps too good.
A dream would be adding AppStore, with games and applications - but I don't see that as very likely.
/Daniel
This is one reason the Mini might get magsafe though. Imagine not having the power brick at all. You would just have one power cable like the iMac. If they made the display 1/3 the price and matte, I'd be very interested in that.
If it has a miniDP ... couldn't you potentially buy the new monitor and power the mini just the same as you could power a laptop.
It seems weirdly close to the iMac, but far enough away that it could work.
I was also concerned about whether the mac mini line will continue. So I spoke with executive support @apple and they gave every indication that a refresh of some sort will occur in due time. They know the mini is popular and fills a unique niche for their corporate end education buyers. Apple is not going to tip their hand, so we will wait and see....
What sort of indications? Did they actually say that they're planning an update?
Today's article about Nvidia from AppleInsider mentions that they receieved a challenge from an unknown source to make their next desktop offering small enough for media center PCs. I'd bet that source was Apple and they were talking about the Mini. The Mini was meant to draw PC users, many of whom are gamers. Without a discrete graphics card, though, it was clear that the Mini could not be used as a modern gaming machine. It looks like that could change.
Personally, I need a laptop and would like a sister desktop but there's no way I can afford a Macbook Pro and a Mac Pro nor do I need all that horsepower. I could justify a Macbook Pro and an inexpensive but feature rich desktop... probably never happen though.
What sort of indications? Did they actually say that they're planning an update?
Today's article about Nvidia from AppleInsider mentions that they receieved a challenge from an unknown source to make their next desktop offering small enough for media center PCs. I'd bet that source was Apple and they were talking about the Mini. The Mini was meant to draw PC users, many of whom are gamers. Without a discrete graphics card, though, it was clear that the Mini could not be used as a modern gaming machine. It looks like that could change.
on board video that uses system ram with no pci-e slot does not make a modern gaming machine.
Apple halting Mac mini shipments?...
Apple is currently telling at least some retailers not to expect further Mac mini shipments, according to reports sent to Gizmodo. At least two "major" European outlets say they have been told by Apple not to anticipate more units of the small desktop and get the impression from their Apple sources that the system has been discontinued outright and isn't just encountering a temporary interruption in supply.
Apple is currently telling at least some retailers not to expect further Mac mini shipments, according to reports sent to Gizmodo. At least two "major" European outlets say they have been told by Apple not to anticipate more units of the small desktop and get the impression from their Apple sources that the system has been discontinued outright and isn't just encountering a temporary interruption in supply.
If they do discontinue it and offer no replacement, Apple will have entry points for laptops at $999 (it's really $1299 though) and for desktops at $1199. That's just a very stupid thing to do right now.
I actually wouldn't mind seeing the Mini go *if* they replace it with a Cube. The impression that people get from a Mini is a lack of power and to some extent that's true but it's not really that bad.
A Cube suggests it's more powerful and since it's bigger, it can take cheaper parts. Even if they inflate the margins, a $600 or $700 Cube will be a profitable computer. At $400 less than the iMac, it will still sell.
They could possibly drop the entry price of the iMac though by using Nvidia integrated chips vs the ATI dedicated chips but I don't see it dropping very far.
It's still going to annoy a lot of people who use the Mini in all sorts of ways like server racks, as car stereos etc.
From macnn.com
Apple halting Mac mini shipments?...
Hardmac too confirms. It was AI's sources that gave it the EOL status long ago, no?