That's what the space could be used for though. Imagine two extra USB and firewire on top, maybe eSATA or expressCard too. An optical drive takes up a lot of room.
I guess I'm feeling cynical today because I'm not nearly as convinced as you and others that if Apple were to drop the optical drive in the MB and MBP that they would turn around and give back additional ports or an expressCard.
I would argue that with Apple's product designs I'm forced to carry more accessories than I should already.
This would only make it worse. Need to download pictures from a camera, pull out the card reader. Need to hook up a projector to my MBP , then get the DVI to VGA adaptor.
Now I need to lug around an external DVD drive? Enough is enough.
Oh and did you remember that the MBs and MBPs only come with 2 USB ports?
You need a different camera!.. ... I can plug my camera directly into the USB port... no separate "card reader" required.
And the point is that you DON'T need to lug around a drive... leave it at home... or at the office. (There's always "Air-disk" as well.) On the rare occasions that I need one, I simply use it at home... the battery doesn't hold up well when spinning the optical drive anyhow
I guess I'm feeling cynical today because I'm not nearly as convinced as you and others that if Apple were to drop the optical drive in the MB and MBP that they would turn around and give back additional ports or an expressCard.
Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't.
This is certainly something to consider. There's no guarantee a progressive company like Apple would turn around and give back more ports. They could very well just making things thinner. But still, the point is, there's SOMETHING to gain from this regardless.
The problem seems to be two-fold:
-Manufacturing Constraints ... can the new aluminum machining process accommodate modular parts (if they opt for a modular system instead of permanently installing more ports or whatever)
-Market Constraints ... can the company come to terms with a 'new era' in computing that doesn't require CDs and DVDs as much? the same way they came to terms with a 'new era' in computing that doesn't require FW and DVI anymore? But will people be on the same page?
Seriously, the more I think about this and look over this thread, there's just no reason why the next redesign in 2- 3 years would NOT throw the optical drive out. I'll bet big bucks that drive's gone in no time. And yes, with cloud computing, it's an even bigger factor to consider as far as shuffling data around without optical media.
This thread is a fantastic example of how people don't use their optical drives anymore (granted they are all MB-Air users, many lament the fact that they bought an external drive because it was a waste of money because they never used it):
Maybe you guys don't use your optical drive but we have to remember that the Macbook's primary target market is students. Students do use the optical drives. They buy CD's instead of just buying them on the net. It's a nostalgia thing I think. I am a student and yet I use the iTunes store as well but I hate buying CD's so that's just me. The Macbook is supposed to cater for a wide range of people. some who actually use it. I don't use my optical drive but there are many more people in the world than just myself. That's probably why the macbook is Apple's best selling product. Widespread appeal.
I'd purchae albums online if they were the same quality as a CD; right now the price of iTunes is the same as buying a CD; atleast with a cd I get the bonus of having a higher quality copy on physical media.
If they started offering lossless encoded music at the same or lower price as a CD - without DRM, I'd be the first out there to start using iTunes. Until then, iTunes is a no-go for me.
YEAH!? You know what!? I don't even use displays anymore. I can usually do everything on the computer through muscle-memory and rarely if ever look at the screen. I'm typing this right now on a headless Mac Pro. So I don't know why the Mac laptops still ship with a display. Displays are defunct.
How do I even know what the thread topic was about? Ohhhh, trust me, I know. I don't need a stinkin' display to *SEE* what the topic of this thread is.
How dare Apple ship Macs without 8inch floppy drives?!?!?!?!?!?! I still have important documents on 8inch floppies and I can't be bothered to copy them to a hard drive. Please don't tell me to get an external 8inch floppy drive, because I like to travel with my collection of 8inch floppies but I don't want to lug around an external 8inch floppy drive. I don't care that everyone else would have to pay for an 8inch floppy drive that they don't need and that laptop users would have to suffer the added weight, added size, shorter battery life, and reduced reliability. That's a small price to pay for my convenience.
How dare Apple ship Macs without 8inch floppy drives?!?!?!?!?!?! I still have important documents on 8inch floppies and I can't be bothered to copy them to a hard drive. Please don't tell me to get an external 8inch floppy drive, because I like to travel with my collection of 8inch floppies but I don't want to lug around an external 8inch floppy drive. I don't care that everyone else would have to pay for an 8inch floppy drive that they don't need and that laptop users would have to suffer the added weight, added size, shorter battery life, and reduced reliability. That's a small price to pay for my convenience.
The difference between the floppy and the optical drive is that the optical HAS NOT been replaced yet. Unless you choose to buy the external drive or have another computer with an optical drive you cannot a) install software unless its one of the very few that has a digital download (Apple's included), b) upgrade your operating system, or c) use disk first aid on your hard drive should there be a problem. Things that you could fix yourself would now require a (in a lot of cases) several hour trip to the nearest mega-metro with an AppleStore. Sure Apple could claim they would be going forward, but a good chuck of the users current owning a Mac laptop wouldn't be along for the ride.
Please don't tell me to get an external 8inch floppy drive, because I like to travel with my collection of 8inch floppies but I don't want to lug around an external 8inch floppy drive.
Did 8 inch floppies take 20 minutes a piece to rip?
You guys are whining about an extra couple ounces and the equivalent volume of a candy bar or two?
When is the last time any of you have damaged an optical drive?
The cost of the drive is negligible. If you think Apple is going to lower the price by dropping the drive, I would suggest you are smoking something a little stronger than you thought it was. If you needed one at all, they'll happily charge $99 for the external, which would be more inconvenient to handle if you needed to take it with you.
You need a different camera!.. ... I can plug my camera directly into the USB port... no separate "card reader" required.
It's actually the crappy ones that have a USB plug on them, if you mean something like the Flip.
Quote:
And the point is that you DON'T need to lug around a drive... leave it at home... or at the office. (There's always "Air-disk" as well.) On the rare occasions that I need one, I simply use it at home... the battery doesn't hold up well when spinning the optical drive anyhow
You are sabotaging your argument there. If you're not actually using the drive, it consumes negligible power.
You guys are whining about an extra couple ounces and the equivalent volume of a candy bar or two?
When is the last time any of you have damaged an optical drive?
The cost of the drive is negligible. One thing that's almost for certain is that I don't think Apple would drop the price any if they dropped the drive.
I just don't see the hardship here.
the optical drive does take quite a bit of space
i'd rather a bigger logic board. But the idea of an App store is intriguing, but d/l an OS over the internet seems quite a ways off
You are sabotaging your argument there. If you're not actually using the drive, it consumes negligible power.
No, but I did word that poorly, or maybe not include enough information.
I was thinking in terms of watching a movie or listening to music... both are much more efficient when the data is on the HDD rather than reading from the optical drive.
Did 8 inch floppies take 20 minutes a piece to rip?
As I recall, they took about that long to copy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
You guys are whining about an extra couple ounces and the equivalent volume of a candy bar or two?
We're talking about more than 10% of the weight and volume of a MacBook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
When is the last time any of you have damaged an optical drive?
Two years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
The cost of the drive is negligible. If you think Apple is going to lower the price by dropping the drive, I would suggest you are smoking something a little stronger than you thought it was. If you needed one at all, they'll happily charge $99 for the external, which would be more inconvenient to handle if you needed to take it with you.
That $99 is about the price drop we'd probably see on an optical-free MacBook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I just don't see the hardship here.
Apple obviously did when they developed the MacBook Air.
...Apple obviously did when they developed the MacBook Air.
speaking of the MacBook Air...
SAME manufacturing process. SAME graphics chipset. NO optical drive. FEWER ports. CHEAPER CPU. CHEAPER HDD.
... yet it's $500 MORE expensive?!?!?! What am I missing here?... See, I love the idea of the MBAir, but you get so much less for $500 more ??? (It used to be the price of admission for that manufacturing process to create the form-factor... but that excuse has kind of died.)
SAME manufacturing process. SAME graphics chipset. NO optical drive. FEWER ports. CHEAPER CPU. CHEAPER HDD.
... yet it's $500 MORE expensive?!?!?! What am I missing here?... See, I love the idea of the MBAir, but you get so much less for $500 more ??? (It used to be the price of admission for that manufacturing process to create the form-factor... but that excuse has kind of died.)
No, I believe the MacBook Air has a more expensive CPU and a more expensive HDD while the MacBook benefits from economies of scale.
The HDD is virtually the same thing used in HDD iPods, so there are definite economies of scale that make them cheaper. The CPU is somewhat custom due to the packaging shrink, but alone wouldn't really explain $500.
The HDD is virtually the same thing used in HDD iPods, so there are definite economies of scale that make them cheaper. The CPU is somewhat custom due to the packaging shrink, but alone wouldn't really explain $500.
Using the same drive in the iPods helps, but 1.8" drives are still a lot more expensive than 2.5" drives. Apple probably also have higher margins on the MacBook Air than on the MacBook since there is less competition in the MacBook Air's market segment.
The HDD is virtually the same thing used in HDD iPods, so there are definite economies of scale that make them cheaper. The CPU is somewhat custom due to the packaging shrink, but alone wouldn't really explain $500.
Intel has made the smaller package available to all customers now.
The HDD is virtually the same thing used in HDD iPods, so there are definite economies of scale that make them cheaper. The CPU is somewhat custom due to the packaging shrink, but alone wouldn't really explain $500.
The CPU is in a considerably lower wattage bin. It may be made from the same masks, but semiconductor fabbing isn't necessarily that predictable, the LV and ULV chips are quite expensive. Just downclocking isn't enough because the leakage current needs to be controlled better too.
But overall, I think you're right, a buyer would have to put a considerably higher premium on weight and volume to justify an Air purchase now, more so than before.
Comments
That's what the space could be used for though. Imagine two extra USB and firewire on top, maybe eSATA or expressCard too. An optical drive takes up a lot of room.
I guess I'm feeling cynical today because I'm not nearly as convinced as you and others that if Apple were to drop the optical drive in the MB and MBP that they would turn around and give back additional ports or an expressCard.
Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't.
I would argue that with Apple's product designs I'm forced to carry more accessories than I should already.
This would only make it worse. Need to download pictures from a camera, pull out the card reader. Need to hook up a projector to my MBP , then get the DVI to VGA adaptor.
Now I need to lug around an external DVD drive? Enough is enough.
Oh and did you remember that the MBs and MBPs only come with 2 USB ports?
You need a different camera!..
And the point is that you DON'T need to lug around a drive... leave it at home... or at the office. (There's always "Air-disk" as well.) On the rare occasions that I need one, I simply use it at home... the battery doesn't hold up well when spinning the optical drive anyhow
I guess I'm feeling cynical today because I'm not nearly as convinced as you and others that if Apple were to drop the optical drive in the MB and MBP that they would turn around and give back additional ports or an expressCard.
Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't.
This is certainly something to consider. There's no guarantee a progressive company like Apple would turn around and give back more ports. They could very well just making things thinner. But still, the point is, there's SOMETHING to gain from this regardless.
The problem seems to be two-fold:
-Manufacturing Constraints ... can the new aluminum machining process accommodate modular parts (if they opt for a modular system instead of permanently installing more ports or whatever)
-Market Constraints ... can the company come to terms with a 'new era' in computing that doesn't require CDs and DVDs as much? the same way they came to terms with a 'new era' in computing that doesn't require FW and DVI anymore? But will people be on the same page?
Seriously, the more I think about this and look over this thread, there's just no reason why the next redesign in 2- 3 years would NOT throw the optical drive out. I'll bet big bucks that drive's gone in no time. And yes, with cloud computing, it's an even bigger factor to consider as far as shuffling data around without optical media.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...20#post6480620
Maybe you guys don't use your optical drive but we have to remember that the Macbook's primary target market is students. Students do use the optical drives. They buy CD's instead of just buying them on the net. It's a nostalgia thing I think. I am a student and yet I use the iTunes store as well but I hate buying CD's so that's just me. The Macbook is supposed to cater for a wide range of people. some who actually use it. I don't use my optical drive but there are many more people in the world than just myself. That's probably why the macbook is Apple's best selling product. Widespread appeal.
I'd purchae albums online if they were the same quality as a CD; right now the price of iTunes is the same as buying a CD; atleast with a cd I get the bonus of having a higher quality copy on physical media.
If they started offering lossless encoded music at the same or lower price as a CD - without DRM, I'd be the first out there to start using iTunes. Until then, iTunes is a no-go for me.
How do I even know what the thread topic was about? Ohhhh, trust me, I know. I don't need a stinkin' display to *SEE* what the topic of this thread is.
How dare Apple ship Macs without 8inch floppy drives?!?!?!?!?!?! I still have important documents on 8inch floppies and I can't be bothered to copy them to a hard drive. Please don't tell me to get an external 8inch floppy drive, because I like to travel with my collection of 8inch floppies but I don't want to lug around an external 8inch floppy drive. I don't care that everyone else would have to pay for an 8inch floppy drive that they don't need and that laptop users would have to suffer the added weight, added size, shorter battery life, and reduced reliability. That's a small price to pay for my convenience.
The difference between the floppy and the optical drive is that the optical HAS NOT been replaced yet. Unless you choose to buy the external drive or have another computer with an optical drive you cannot a) install software unless its one of the very few that has a digital download (Apple's included), b) upgrade your operating system, or c) use disk first aid on your hard drive should there be a problem. Things that you could fix yourself would now require a (in a lot of cases) several hour trip to the nearest mega-metro with an AppleStore. Sure Apple could claim they would be going forward, but a good chuck of the users current owning a Mac laptop wouldn't be along for the ride.
Please don't tell me to get an external 8inch floppy drive, because I like to travel with my collection of 8inch floppies but I don't want to lug around an external 8inch floppy drive.
Did 8 inch floppies take 20 minutes a piece to rip?
You guys are whining about an extra couple ounces and the equivalent volume of a candy bar or two?
When is the last time any of you have damaged an optical drive?
The cost of the drive is negligible. If you think Apple is going to lower the price by dropping the drive, I would suggest you are smoking something a little stronger than you thought it was. If you needed one at all, they'll happily charge $99 for the external, which would be more inconvenient to handle if you needed to take it with you.
I just don't see the hardship here.
You need a different camera!..
It's actually the crappy ones that have a USB plug on them, if you mean something like the Flip.
And the point is that you DON'T need to lug around a drive... leave it at home... or at the office. (There's always "Air-disk" as well.) On the rare occasions that I need one, I simply use it at home... the battery doesn't hold up well when spinning the optical drive anyhow
You are sabotaging your argument there. If you're not actually using the drive, it consumes negligible power.
You guys are whining about an extra couple ounces and the equivalent volume of a candy bar or two?
When is the last time any of you have damaged an optical drive?
The cost of the drive is negligible. One thing that's almost for certain is that I don't think Apple would drop the price any if they dropped the drive.
I just don't see the hardship here.
the optical drive does take quite a bit of space
i'd rather a bigger logic board. But the idea of an App store is intriguing, but d/l an OS over the internet seems quite a ways off
You are sabotaging your argument there. If you're not actually using the drive, it consumes negligible power.
No, but I did word that poorly, or maybe not include enough information.
I was thinking in terms of watching a movie or listening to music... both are much more efficient when the data is on the HDD rather than reading from the optical drive.
Did 8 inch floppies take 20 minutes a piece to rip?
As I recall, they took about that long to copy.
You guys are whining about an extra couple ounces and the equivalent volume of a candy bar or two?
We're talking about more than 10% of the weight and volume of a MacBook.
When is the last time any of you have damaged an optical drive?
Two years ago.
The cost of the drive is negligible. If you think Apple is going to lower the price by dropping the drive, I would suggest you are smoking something a little stronger than you thought it was. If you needed one at all, they'll happily charge $99 for the external, which would be more inconvenient to handle if you needed to take it with you.
That $99 is about the price drop we'd probably see on an optical-free MacBook.
I just don't see the hardship here.
Apple obviously did when they developed the MacBook Air.
...Apple obviously did when they developed the MacBook Air.
speaking of the MacBook Air...
SAME manufacturing process. SAME graphics chipset. NO optical drive. FEWER ports. CHEAPER CPU. CHEAPER HDD.
... yet it's $500 MORE expensive?!?!?! What am I missing here?... See, I love the idea of the MBAir, but you get so much less for $500 more ??? (It used to be the price of admission for that manufacturing process to create the form-factor... but that excuse has kind of died.)
speaking of the MacBook Air...
SAME manufacturing process. SAME graphics chipset. NO optical drive. FEWER ports. CHEAPER CPU. CHEAPER HDD.
... yet it's $500 MORE expensive?!?!?! What am I missing here?... See, I love the idea of the MBAir, but you get so much less for $500 more ??? (It used to be the price of admission for that manufacturing process to create the form-factor... but that excuse has kind of died.)
No, I believe the MacBook Air has a more expensive CPU and a more expensive HDD while the MacBook benefits from economies of scale.
The HDD is virtually the same thing used in HDD iPods, so there are definite economies of scale that make them cheaper. The CPU is somewhat custom due to the packaging shrink, but alone wouldn't really explain $500.
Using the same drive in the iPods helps, but 1.8" drives are still a lot more expensive than 2.5" drives. Apple probably also have higher margins on the MacBook Air than on the MacBook since there is less competition in the MacBook Air's market segment.
The HDD is virtually the same thing used in HDD iPods, so there are definite economies of scale that make them cheaper. The CPU is somewhat custom due to the packaging shrink, but alone wouldn't really explain $500.
Intel has made the smaller package available to all customers now.
The HDD is virtually the same thing used in HDD iPods, so there are definite economies of scale that make them cheaper. The CPU is somewhat custom due to the packaging shrink, but alone wouldn't really explain $500.
The CPU is in a considerably lower wattage bin. It may be made from the same masks, but semiconductor fabbing isn't necessarily that predictable, the LV and ULV chips are quite expensive. Just downclocking isn't enough because the leakage current needs to be controlled better too.
But overall, I think you're right, a buyer would have to put a considerably higher premium on weight and volume to justify an Air purchase now, more so than before.