Sorry I'm not religious. But I do recognize that things are either right or wrong.
Its so bad, bacause its wrong. Just like pedophilia is wrong. Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong. Just like touching your sister is wrong. Its just plain wrong.
Oh, please. Lets not bring the debate down to this level. (Whispering) But while we are down here, where can I find me one of them 'random old ladies'. My stabbing hand is getting all twitchy.
If siblings don't have children together and are consenting adults how does it harm you or anyone else if they sleep together? I sincerely hope that that just made your (and all other pro-8 folk) heads explode so I don't have to read any more of your drivel.
Wow! As a non-Usan it is sometimes easy to forget just what a spooky place the States has become (or perhaps has always been). Some great replies from the thinking people though! Just a couple of points. It always strikes me, a heterosexual male of mature years, that when someone is convinced that homosexual desire is a "choice" then perhaps there are areas their own sexual landscape that they have left unexplored. I've never had a homosexual experience, not because some bonkers millionaire preacher (fresh back from a two-hour session of having crystal meth shoved up his jacksy by a rentboy in a seedy motel on the I-whatever) is telling me that to do so would plunge me screaming into an eternal lake of fire, but because I just do not find men sexually attractive. Not at all. Not even the few good looking ones. It's not conditioning, it's innate, and if you have ever spoken to a gay man you will doubtless discover that it is the same for him. Some are, most aren't, and if two people love each other and want to commit themselves to each other on a life-long basis... well what exactly is the problem? Whatever happened to 'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'?
Along with others here I applaud Apple for taking a stand against bigotry and intolerance. To those that have threatened to flounce off (in a very manly testosteronal way obviously) to Vista I support your decision, you sound like you should get on fine with each other. Besides, every single Apple product ever sold honours another great (homosexual) man, Alan Turing. He was the mathematical genius behind 'Colossus", the first true modern computer that was built at Bletchley Park in World War 2. With this they broke the German 'enigma' code, and so Turing was one of the most important figures in the wining of that conflict. However he was gay, and was caught doing something gay (not good in 1950s Britain), and was driven to suicide by the same hate-filled blackness exhibited by some here. He got an apple, painted cyanide on it, took a bite and died. An apple with a bite out of it. Sound familiar?
Just a few weeks ago, a first grade public school class in San Francisco was taken on a field trip to a lesbian wedding at City Hall, officiated by Mayor Gavin Newsom. School officials said they wished to provide their five and six year old students a ?teachable moment.?.
You're leaving out very pertinent facts.
1. All children must have parental permission to go on any field trip outside of school.
2. All 18 parents gave permission for their children to go on this field trip. This was NOT done without their consent.
3. The children did not attend the wedding, but waited outside City Hall to greet their schoolteacher and her new married partner after the ceremony was over.
Your issues lie with the "liberal" parents who allowed their children to attend this event, not the school district. If it were so controversial, and so potentially damaging to children, the majority of parents would not have allowed their children to attend. But they did. However, two parents opted their children out of the field trip, as is their right under California law.
It's not a political matter. It's a civil rights issue. When we see something as heinous as Prop 8 rear its head, everyone should stand up and speak out against it, including companies.
Besides, Apple is a corporate citizen of California. They have infinitely more reason to speak on the issue that ALL of the major funders of Prop 8, NONE of whom are based in California.
Certainly Apple Inc. has the right to speak out on this issue, but many of their customers also have the right to feel alienated by that position. Companies that enter the political arena do it at the peril of loosing customers.
Certainly Apple Inc. has the right to speak out on this issue, but many of their customers also have the right to feel alienated by that position. Companies that enter the political arena do it at the peril of loosing customers.
"There are certain customers that we choose not to serve"
Ask God if he discriminates. He does discriminate, because he knows what is good for us and what is not good for us. He created bounds and limits for us, and discriminates between what's in bounds and what's out of bounds in terms of behavior. He discriminates, and does it in love. Sometimes he says 'no', with love.
ugh. and if you don't believe in God...
and furthermore, why legislate your beliefs? I know you believe God doesn't want gays to marry... but why does that affect whether our country or state should allow them to? If God disapproves of an action, let Him deal with it, you don't have to.
4. I agree that same sex couples may provide a much better environment than crack hoes or pimps. I also agree with the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child that a child deserves a mother and father.
Crack Hoes and pimps? Over dramatic much? I know two people brought up by same sex couples - two separate families - and I would argue that both of them were brought up by a father and a mother in the sense that I believe the idea of a father and a mother is meant. I also happen to know a couple of people who definitely wish they had never been brought up by their father and mother. Both, I am pretty certain would have preferred not to have had their fathers in the house at all. The idea of a 'father and mother' in a child's life is more complex than it first sounds. What do you honestly think is worse, a child being brought up by a caring and responsible couple (same sex), and a child being brought up by by an alcoholized married couple of which the man beats the shit out of his child on a regular basis?
Please learn the proper use of words before you use them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I say it's unethical to deny people the same rights you have to a full, happy life simply because you don't care for their natural race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, height, weight, gender, cranium phrenology or any other aspect of their person that is biologically originated.
First, as a public company they shouldn't contribute to something that (obviously) doesn't represent all of their investors.
Because the removal of firewire in the macbook was supported by all investors...
Grow up people. If you dislike their move, dump your stock. People on this planet have a responsibility to fight for what they believe in; Apple is doing that, and I support their effort. Many of you forget this is a California company... not a Houston on. Seriously, grow up people. Apple has huge sums in the bank, 100k won't be too sorely missed.
Since the authors of the Bible did not know Jesus, did not live in the same country or in the same time, we can only understand Christianity by the way Jesus lived his life, and that he felt the need to preach differently from the religion of the time.
Jesus's lived his life by the values of:
PACIFISM
FORGIVENESS
GENEROSITY
Will the real fundamentalist Christians please stand up? I can't hear you!
He also stood up for God's moral values. Jesus/God was against murder, adultery, stealing, lying, cheating, etc. Also, pertaining to this thread, he considered homosexuality immoral.
If you don't like what Apple is doing, then don't buy their products. Go with crappy PCs or worse, Zunes (lol). If you don't think that the company should get into the issues like Prop 8, then you should tell those religious freaks to stay out of it, too. It's a basic civil rights issue. I'll totally support Apple on this one!!
He also stood up for God's moral values. Jesus/God was against murder, adultery, stealing, lying, cheating, etc. Also, pertaining to this thread, he considered homosexuality immoral.
You have no clue if Jesus or God was against homosexuality.
It has never been a part of Christianity that Jesus or God wrote the Bible.
Certainly Apple Inc. has the right to speak out on this issue, but many of their customers also have the right to feel alienated by that position. Companies that enter the political arena do it at the peril of loosing customers.
Well I think it's a good thing that Apple is loosing customers. They should never have tied them up in the first place. Come on Mr H you're slacking!
Sigh... I couldn't let this pass. As an active participant in the fight against Prop 8, I can say that NONE of the people I work with have voiced ANYTHING like the points you've listed.
Please provide links to reputable news sources for these outrageous claims.
GTSC
Those are talking point that have been handed out at LDS and Fundamentalist churches. They are easy to debunk too - in fact a BYU professor just did.
Here is a PDF file that goes point by point with references showing the Yes on 8 side is lying to its supporters and using fear.
Comments
Sorry I'm not religious. But I do recognize that things are either right or wrong.
Its so bad, bacause its wrong. Just like pedophilia is wrong. Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong. Just like touching your sister is wrong. Its just plain wrong.
Oh, please. Lets not bring the debate down to this level. (Whispering) But while we are down here, where can I find me one of them 'random old ladies'. My stabbing hand is getting all twitchy.
We should take a look at one of the Windows PC forums.
I bet it's all F**K, KILL, Burn in hell!
If siblings don't have children together and are consenting adults how does it harm you or anyone else if they sleep together? I sincerely hope that that just made your (and all other pro-8 folk) heads explode so I don't have to read any more of your drivel.
Ha ha ha ... Hilarious!
Along with others here I applaud Apple for taking a stand against bigotry and intolerance. To those that have threatened to flounce off (in a very manly testosteronal way obviously) to Vista I support your decision, you sound like you should get on fine with each other. Besides, every single Apple product ever sold honours another great (homosexual) man, Alan Turing. He was the mathematical genius behind 'Colossus", the first true modern computer that was built at Bletchley Park in World War 2. With this they broke the German 'enigma' code, and so Turing was one of the most important figures in the wining of that conflict. However he was gay, and was caught doing something gay (not good in 1950s Britain), and was driven to suicide by the same hate-filled blackness exhibited by some here. He got an apple, painted cyanide on it, took a bite and died. An apple with a bite out of it. Sound familiar?
Just a few weeks ago, a first grade public school class in San Francisco was taken on a field trip to a lesbian wedding at City Hall, officiated by Mayor Gavin Newsom. School officials said they wished to provide their five and six year old students a ?teachable moment.?.
You're leaving out very pertinent facts.
1. All children must have parental permission to go on any field trip outside of school.
2. All 18 parents gave permission for their children to go on this field trip. This was NOT done without their consent.
3. The children did not attend the wedding, but waited outside City Hall to greet their schoolteacher and her new married partner after the ceremony was over.
Your issues lie with the "liberal" parents who allowed their children to attend this event, not the school district. If it were so controversial, and so potentially damaging to children, the majority of parents would not have allowed their children to attend. But they did. However, two parents opted their children out of the field trip, as is their right under California law.
Try again.
GTSC
It's not a political matter. It's a civil rights issue. When we see something as heinous as Prop 8 rear its head, everyone should stand up and speak out against it, including companies.
Besides, Apple is a corporate citizen of California. They have infinitely more reason to speak on the issue that ALL of the major funders of Prop 8, NONE of whom are based in California.
Certainly Apple Inc. has the right to speak out on this issue, but many of their customers also have the right to feel alienated by that position. Companies that enter the political arena do it at the peril of loosing customers.
Certainly Apple Inc. has the right to speak out on this issue, but many of their customers also have the right to feel alienated by that position. Companies that enter the political arena do it at the peril of loosing customers.
"There are certain customers that we choose not to serve"
Ask God if he discriminates. He does discriminate, because he knows what is good for us and what is not good for us. He created bounds and limits for us, and discriminates between what's in bounds and what's out of bounds in terms of behavior. He discriminates, and does it in love. Sometimes he says 'no', with love.
ugh. and if you don't believe in God...
and furthermore, why legislate your beliefs? I know you believe God doesn't want gays to marry... but why does that affect whether our country or state should allow them to? If God disapproves of an action, let Him deal with it, you don't have to.
4. I agree that same sex couples may provide a much better environment than crack hoes or pimps. I also agree with the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child that a child deserves a mother and father.
Crack Hoes and pimps? Over dramatic much? I know two people brought up by same sex couples - two separate families - and I would argue that both of them were brought up by a father and a mother in the sense that I believe the idea of a father and a mother is meant. I also happen to know a couple of people who definitely wish they had never been brought up by their father and mother. Both, I am pretty certain would have preferred not to have had their fathers in the house at all. The idea of a 'father and mother' in a child's life is more complex than it first sounds. What do you honestly think is worse, a child being brought up by a caring and responsible couple (same sex), and a child being brought up by by an alcoholized married couple of which the man beats the shit out of his child on a regular basis?
I say it's unethical to deny people the same rights you have to a full, happy life simply because you don't care for their natural race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, height, weight, gender, cranium phrenology or any other aspect of their person that is biologically originated.
First, as a public company they shouldn't contribute to something that (obviously) doesn't represent all of their investors.
Because the removal of firewire in the macbook was supported by all investors...
Grow up people. If you dislike their move, dump your stock. People on this planet have a responsibility to fight for what they believe in; Apple is doing that, and I support their effort. Many of you forget this is a California company... not a Houston on. Seriously, grow up people. Apple has huge sums in the bank, 100k won't be too sorely missed.
Since the authors of the Bible did not know Jesus, did not live in the same country or in the same time, we can only understand Christianity by the way Jesus lived his life, and that he felt the need to preach differently from the religion of the time.
Jesus's lived his life by the values of:
PACIFISM
FORGIVENESS
GENEROSITY
Will the real fundamentalist Christians please stand up? I can't hear you!
He also stood up for God's moral values. Jesus/God was against murder, adultery, stealing, lying, cheating, etc. Also, pertaining to this thread, he considered homosexuality immoral.
As a gay man in CA I thank Apple for taking a stance in favor of my Civil Rights.
He also stood up for God's moral values. Jesus/God was against murder, adultery, stealing, lying, cheating, etc. Also, pertaining to this thread, he considered homosexuality immoral.
You have no clue if Jesus or God was against homosexuality.
It has never been a part of Christianity that Jesus or God wrote the Bible.
Certainly Apple Inc. has the right to speak out on this issue, but many of their customers also have the right to feel alienated by that position. Companies that enter the political arena do it at the peril of loosing customers.
Well I think it's a good thing that Apple is loosing customers. They should never have tied them up in the first place. Come on Mr H you're slacking!
Sigh... I couldn't let this pass. As an active participant in the fight against Prop 8, I can say that NONE of the people I work with have voiced ANYTHING like the points you've listed.
Please provide links to reputable news sources for these outrageous claims.
GTSC
Those are talking point that have been handed out at LDS and Fundamentalist churches. They are easy to debunk too - in fact a BYU professor just did.
Here is a PDF file that goes point by point with references showing the Yes on 8 side is lying to its supporters and using fear.
http://www.noonprop8.com/downloads/Thurston-Memo.pdf