If it helps - I've tested a hard disk with both USB2 and Firewire400 - I copied several large files to and from the system and timed it on USB/Firewire. Firewire was 10% faster (occasionally 20% faster), but that was it.
Try it with a bunch of smaller files. You will probably see a much greater difference.
I'll bet the new mini will be a 6" x 6" x 1" aluminum block, internally a MacBook with no display, keyboard, battery, or optical drive, and will plug right into the MagSafe connector on the new display. If it were me, I'd design it so that extra modules would plug into the top just like legos. Optical drive? Plug it in. Bigger hard drive? Better graphics card? Stack them all up.
I like the modular idea. I don't know if Apple would take it to that extent as a selling point but I think it's a direction Apple should take with the Mini design. Basically just give us a core module and let us build around it what we want.
The iMac, it's all setup for you. Simple.
The Mini, set it up exactly how you want. Versatile.
Mac Pro, set it up for the best performance. Powerful.
The Mini vs iMac is like self-catering vs bed and breakfast.
People choose both for different reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling
Why would Apple drop the optical drive from a desktop model right after retaining it on the MacBooks? The other way around would make far more sense.
I agree but one reason is price. Ideally, they would have done it with both models.
The Mini is also used for a huge number of tasks like the server farm. If they buy 1,000 Minis, it's 1,000 optical drives that didn't need to be bought and are wasting room that could fit another 300 minis or so. You can always add one if you want it but you can't remove it and save the space when you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981
If apple stated no netbooks why would they keep the mini around?
Netbooks are very cheap, Apple probably couldn't sell the screen on its own and be competitive with them. The Mini only has to compare to other media PCs and they are still in Apple's target pricing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
We would still need an optical drive to upgrade to a new OS X. External optical? Upgrades on a flash drive?
Yeah external optical would be the idea. It's easier in the long run for upgrades and expansion. If you need a Blu-Ray drive, simply unplug your DVD drive, sell it on ebay and buy an external Blu-Ray. If your drive breaks, unplug it and buy a new one. You would never have to pay Apple's high prices to repair your drive.
It's perhaps not the best idea for the Mini but people weren't too happy with the Macbook pricing and one thing I noticed is they all have superdrives, which Apple usually charge a decent premium for. A BTO superdrive for the Mac Pro is $100, a slot loader would be $150-200.
If they had left this out of the Macbook, the new one would be much closer to the original price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dempson
An argument against MagSafe: unless the Mini gains an internal battery, popping off the MagSafe plug would be instant shutdown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1
If we're talking about powering the mini with a magnetic power attachment, it makes no sense to me. The whole idea behind Magsafe was that it allows for a fail-safe type of arrangement if someone happens to kick the power cord.
Still, the idea with magsafe is that if something forced a cable pull, the cable comes out rather than the Mini + peripherals crashing onto the floor. Also the current adaptor is very loose in the port. A magnetic cord would actually be stronger than what it has now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryn
I would think that the 24in display might be aim specifically for this purpose. After all, how many people really connect up their macbooks to a display.
Not to mention the price. I don't know who would buy a $1300 laptop and then a $900 display to go with it. It seems made to go with a $600 Mini and it means it only has one cable more than the iMac.
Maybe this is the new iMac. The current iMac is $1199. A $600 Mini + $900 display = $1500. Perhaps they could move things around to get that price round about the same. Using desktop parts would do it but I don't see them doing that because of the heat/noise.
But is there room for a computer, and an optical drive?
We were talking abou footprint of the mini, not the overall size. NewerTech and other's have demonstrated that a 3.5" drive is not too big to fit within the mini's width & depth. My original post said the height may need to change. It would depend on how much smaller they could make the motherboard using NVIDIA's new intergrated chipset.
But is there room for a computer, and an optical drive?
We know that if they switch to the basic case size of the ATV and TimeCapsule (only 1.2" greater on side) then they have room for a 3.5" hard disk drive.
We were talking abou footprint of the mini, not the overall size. NewerTech and other's have demonstrated that a 3.5" drive is not too big to fit within the mini's width & depth.
then use a DVI-to-HDMI adapter like I have on my mini now .
No audio currently and for whatever reason Apple hasn't released their own adapter which should be a no brainer. You'd also want HDCP support as well which I guess shouldn't be an issue since I think the 9400M supports HDCP.
Not to mention the price. I don't know who would buy a $1300 laptop and then a $900 display to go with it. It seems made to go with a $600 Mini and it means it only has one cable more than the iMac.
Maybe this is the new iMac. The current iMac is $1199. A $600 Mini + $900 display = $1500. Perhaps they could move things around to get that price round about the same. Using desktop parts would do it but I don't see them doing that because of the heat/noise.
The new 24" Cinema Display isn't primarily targeted at the $1300 laptop purchasing consumer.
It is designed for professionals spending $2-3000 on a MacBook Pro.
I'm sure Apple would be delighted if more consumers bought it, but no one in Cupertino is holding their breath.
By the time Mac mini strolls out on stage I'm sure he'll have a darling little 20" Cinema Display with Display Port to accompany him.
new Mac mini with NVIDIA graphics ....$599
20" Cinema Display with Display Port ....$599
new bluetooth keyboard with multi-touch trackpad ....$99
The last thing I want is a Blue-ray drive built into the Mac. First, if Windows Vista is to be any judge, any such system would take a huge performance hit. The reason is because Blue-Ray licensing requires massive system wide DRM to be put in place. Blue-Ray offers nice features in terms of storage space, but the DRM cost doesn't make it worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe
I'm still hoping for a Blu-ray drive and FireWire.
can you imagine how many people on this forum would cry bloody murder if that happened ... and how many would "never buy an apple again"
I dunno if the time is right to remove it from the mini ... the mini could legitmately be used as a "media centre" in which case playing DVDs could be quite useful.
Heck, its even an argument to try to include Blu Ray as an option ... but that would make the Mini pretty expensive and sort of counter intuitive.
a thin unibody aluminium mini with macbook innards is pretty yummy though, but somehow i doubt that could happen at 599.
Apple didn't dump the optical drive in their most popular notebooks this time around, why would they dump them in their desktops? Their desktops don't have rigidity combined with restrictive weight considerations such that this unibody concept is a valid solution, nor is a couple ounces an issue for a kind of computer that generally isn't moved often. Cost isn't even that big of a deal either.
Actually, NewerTech's miniStack (as well as drives from other companies) is a combination external drive and hub and is the exact same footprint as the Mac mini. It contains a 3.5" SATA drive and has ports for USB, FireWire, and eSATA on the back as well as USB and FireWire ports on the side. So there is obviously enough room in the mini's footprint for a 3.5" drive with enough room left over for the cables and ports.
Good point; I'd forgotten about those. Not sure how, as I have frequently looked at picking one up. You're right, they're the same footprint and do hold a full-sized 3.5" drive. I just know when I've cracked open my Minis, they seemed too small.
I've come downstairs many times to find my laptop dead and the cord disconnected. I'm quite certain that's from the cats running around and running into the power cord. I'd rather that not happen on a computer without a battery!
Pretty amazing story. Be that as it may, the MagSafe connection is plenty strong for protection against accidental disconnects from "normal or typical" usage (maybe not from running cats and dogs and children though). But I think usage like that's beyond the design intent of the MagSafe connector anyway. If it remains solidly connected during typical usage but disconnects from a lick hard enough to jerk a laptop off a coffee table then it's done its job.
In fact, that MagSafe connection is strong enough that I've had people ask me how to disconnect it. The key is to tilt the connector. It's quite resilient on a straight pull.
And I'm not sure what your real point is about an internal battery. Clearly Apple isn't going to consider a battery bigger than what's already in a laptop! You noted that your laptop has run down frequently after the power cord had become disconnected by running cats. Presumably it's taken upwards of four to five hours for the laptop to run down and you still hadn't noticed the disconnect so I'd say your expectations are unrealistic. I'm mean get real, the Mac mini wasn't designed/marketed as a mission-critical server!
I would have to figure out a way to change the light to red, name the Mac mini Hal and see about getting the computer to emulate that particular voice...
Comments
If it helps - I've tested a hard disk with both USB2 and Firewire400 - I copied several large files to and from the system and timed it on USB/Firewire. Firewire was 10% faster (occasionally 20% faster), but that was it.
Try it with a bunch of smaller files. You will probably see a much greater difference.
I'll bet the new mini will be a 6" x 6" x 1" aluminum block, internally a MacBook with no display, keyboard, battery, or optical drive, and will plug right into the MagSafe connector on the new display. If it were me, I'd design it so that extra modules would plug into the top just like legos. Optical drive? Plug it in. Bigger hard drive? Better graphics card? Stack them all up.
I like the modular idea. I don't know if Apple would take it to that extent as a selling point but I think it's a direction Apple should take with the Mini design. Basically just give us a core module and let us build around it what we want.
The iMac, it's all setup for you. Simple.
The Mini, set it up exactly how you want. Versatile.
Mac Pro, set it up for the best performance. Powerful.
The Mini vs iMac is like self-catering vs bed and breakfast.
People choose both for different reasons.
Why would Apple drop the optical drive from a desktop model right after retaining it on the MacBooks? The other way around would make far more sense.
I agree but one reason is price. Ideally, they would have done it with both models.
The Mini is also used for a huge number of tasks like the server farm. If they buy 1,000 Minis, it's 1,000 optical drives that didn't need to be bought and are wasting room that could fit another 300 minis or so. You can always add one if you want it but you can't remove it and save the space when you don't.
If apple stated no netbooks why would they keep the mini around?
Netbooks are very cheap, Apple probably couldn't sell the screen on its own and be competitive with them. The Mini only has to compare to other media PCs and they are still in Apple's target pricing.
We would still need an optical drive to upgrade to a new OS X. External optical? Upgrades on a flash drive?
Yeah external optical would be the idea. It's easier in the long run for upgrades and expansion. If you need a Blu-Ray drive, simply unplug your DVD drive, sell it on ebay and buy an external Blu-Ray. If your drive breaks, unplug it and buy a new one. You would never have to pay Apple's high prices to repair your drive.
It's perhaps not the best idea for the Mini but people weren't too happy with the Macbook pricing and one thing I noticed is they all have superdrives, which Apple usually charge a decent premium for. A BTO superdrive for the Mac Pro is $100, a slot loader would be $150-200.
If they had left this out of the Macbook, the new one would be much closer to the original price.
An argument against MagSafe: unless the Mini gains an internal battery, popping off the MagSafe plug would be instant shutdown.
If we're talking about powering the mini with a magnetic power attachment, it makes no sense to me. The whole idea behind Magsafe was that it allows for a fail-safe type of arrangement if someone happens to kick the power cord.
Still, the idea with magsafe is that if something forced a cable pull, the cable comes out rather than the Mini + peripherals crashing onto the floor. Also the current adaptor is very loose in the port. A magnetic cord would actually be stronger than what it has now.
I would think that the 24in display might be aim specifically for this purpose. After all, how many people really connect up their macbooks to a display.
Not to mention the price. I don't know who would buy a $1300 laptop and then a $900 display to go with it. It seems made to go with a $600 Mini and it means it only has one cable more than the iMac.
Maybe this is the new iMac. The current iMac is $1199. A $600 Mini + $900 display = $1500. Perhaps they could move things around to get that price round about the same. Using desktop parts would do it but I don't see them doing that because of the heat/noise.
...So there is obviously enough room in the mini's footprint for a 3.5" drive with enough room left over for the cables and ports.
But is there room for a computer, and an optical drive?
But you can get a mini Displayport to DVI adapter:
Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter from AppleStore
then use a DVI-to-HDMI adapter like I have on my mini now
Or the soon to be available Belkin DisplayPort to HDMI cable. (Just a hunch.)
But is there room for a computer, and an optical drive?
We were talking abou footprint of the mini, not the overall size. NewerTech and other's have demonstrated that a 3.5" drive is not too big to fit within the mini's width & depth. My original post said the height may need to change. It would depend on how much smaller they could make the motherboard using NVIDIA's new intergrated chipset.
But is there room for a computer, and an optical drive?
We know that if they switch to the basic case size of the ATV and TimeCapsule (only 1.2" greater on side) then they have room for a 3.5" hard disk drive.
We were talking abou footprint of the mini, not the overall size. NewerTech and other's have demonstrated that a 3.5" drive is not too big to fit within the mini's width & depth.
Sorry, I missed that part. Yeah, I have one.
But you can get a mini Displayport to DVI adapter:
Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter from AppleStore
then use a DVI-to-HDMI adapter like I have on my mini now
No audio currently and for whatever reason Apple hasn't released their own adapter which should be a no brainer. You'd also want HDCP support as well which I guess shouldn't be an issue since I think the 9400M supports HDCP.
Try it with a bunch of smaller files. You will probably see a much greater difference.
Daisy chain 4 USB drives and 4 FireWire drives in a chain and you'll see a HUGE difference.
The Mac mini is so small and compact and reliable.
What it lacks in storage expandability is perfectly matched by the Drobo's core competency.
A Mac mini with two internal 2.5" SSDs in a RAID configuration would give excellent reliability for your OS.
A Drobo with four hot-swappable 3.5" SATA drives can give you terabytes of highly reliable storage for your data.
I would love to see Apple offer an "iServe" version of the Mac mini with no optical drive.
You should be able to configure it with two drives.
1 SSD + 1 SATA
2 SATA
2 SSD
Not to mention the price. I don't know who would buy a $1300 laptop and then a $900 display to go with it. It seems made to go with a $600 Mini and it means it only has one cable more than the iMac.
Maybe this is the new iMac. The current iMac is $1199. A $600 Mini + $900 display = $1500. Perhaps they could move things around to get that price round about the same. Using desktop parts would do it but I don't see them doing that because of the heat/noise.
The new 24" Cinema Display isn't primarily targeted at the $1300 laptop purchasing consumer.
It is designed for professionals spending $2-3000 on a MacBook Pro.
I'm sure Apple would be delighted if more consumers bought it, but no one in Cupertino is holding their breath.
By the time Mac mini strolls out on stage I'm sure he'll have a darling little 20" Cinema Display with Display Port to accompany him.
new Mac mini with NVIDIA graphics ....$599
20" Cinema Display with Display Port ....$599
new bluetooth keyboard with multi-touch trackpad ....$99
I'm still hoping for a Blu-ray drive and FireWire.
thinner unibody design, no optical drive...
can you imagine how many people on this forum would cry bloody murder if that happened ... and how many would "never buy an apple again"
I dunno if the time is right to remove it from the mini ... the mini could legitmately be used as a "media centre" in which case playing DVDs could be quite useful.
Heck, its even an argument to try to include Blu Ray as an option ... but that would make the Mini pretty expensive and sort of counter intuitive.
a thin unibody aluminium mini with macbook innards is pretty yummy though, but somehow i doubt that could happen at 599.
thinner unibody design, no optical drive...
Apple didn't dump the optical drive in their most popular notebooks this time around, why would they dump them in their desktops? Their desktops don't have rigidity combined with restrictive weight considerations such that this unibody concept is a valid solution, nor is a couple ounces an issue for a kind of computer that generally isn't moved often. Cost isn't even that big of a deal either.
I am really hoping to get the new mac-mini as a media box that plays very media format out of the box - aka what the appleTV should be.....
Rather than that - it'd be nice to see Apple simply open it up so that they're "blessing" applications like Boxee.
Even now, watching the developments like Boxee, it's getting really easy to open up the AppleTV to access other formats and sources of video.
Maybe the insert has 'das blinken lightens' that display HDD (dual SSD - ?!?) activity...
Yeah, instead of a DVD through the slot, they could put in a cylon style red light moving from side to side.....
?
:-/
Actually, NewerTech's miniStack (as well as drives from other companies) is a combination external drive and hub and is the exact same footprint as the Mac mini. It contains a 3.5" SATA drive and has ports for USB, FireWire, and eSATA on the back as well as USB and FireWire ports on the side. So there is obviously enough room in the mini's footprint for a 3.5" drive with enough room left over for the cables and ports.
Good point; I'd forgotten about those. Not sure how, as I have frequently looked at picking one up. You're right, they're the same footprint and do hold a full-sized 3.5" drive. I just know when I've cracked open my Minis, they seemed too small.
I've come downstairs many times to find my laptop dead and the cord disconnected. I'm quite certain that's from the cats running around and running into the power cord. I'd rather that not happen on a computer without a battery!
Pretty amazing story. Be that as it may, the MagSafe connection is plenty strong for protection against accidental disconnects from "normal or typical" usage (maybe not from running cats and dogs and children though). But I think usage like that's beyond the design intent of the MagSafe connector anyway. If it remains solidly connected during typical usage but disconnects from a lick hard enough to jerk a laptop off a coffee table then it's done its job.
In fact, that MagSafe connection is strong enough that I've had people ask me how to disconnect it. The key is to tilt the connector. It's quite resilient on a straight pull.
And I'm not sure what your real point is about an internal battery. Clearly Apple isn't going to consider a battery bigger than what's already in a laptop! You noted that your laptop has run down frequently after the power cord had become disconnected by running cats. Presumably it's taken upwards of four to five hours for the laptop to run down and you still hadn't noticed the disconnect so I'd say your expectations are unrealistic. I'm mean get real, the Mac mini wasn't designed/marketed as a mission-critical server!
LaCie 4big Quadra RAID
I would have to figure out a way to change the light to red, name the Mac mini Hal and see about getting the computer to emulate that particular voice...