Apple contributes $100,000 to fight California's No on 8 battle

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  • Reply 441 of 1351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrrrrrrrrr View Post


    Again, it is not about whether homosexuality is good or not. The problem is that many diehard apple fans will switch now to linux or even worse windows. Most of us have opinion about this problem, so buying apple products means supporting homosexuality. Remember the incident with McDonald? People even stopped to buy their hamburgers.



    Homosexuality is no longer someones personal opinion. Many religions just deny it and there are a lot of fighting politicans. Some religions state the answer cleary. I suppose it's even prohibited in islam and no one objects it.



    Buying Apple products has always been supporting homosexuality as soon as they began offering partner benefits. Where was the hew and cry then or the mass exodus of customers? If one is going to scrutinize every company for whether they 'promote' homosexuality or 'its agenda' then one should do one's homework and be consistent about it. It's much easier to nip it in the bud.



    I can't believe I'm actually trying to educate those on the other side!
  • Reply 442 of 1351
    Shame on Apple and on those who support this abomination! This is SICK, WICKED and WRONG! God is ever so merciful but He cannot let such wickedness last and He will execute His pure and righteous judgment for such abominable acts of sin! Repent NOW, you sinful and wicked United States of America! Forbid the murdering of unborn babies! Forbid homosexuality! Forbid gay marriage! REPENT! Turn back to God before it's too late!



    Our once-great country, USA, is beginning to see God's judgment - the fall of the economy, the Bush regime, the 9/11 attacks carried out and exploited by our own government, our weakening as a sovereign nation, etc., and a big piece of this judgment is this next presidential election - whichever candidate gets in office - they are both as crooked as the day is long and have agendas aiming to destroy our nation. This country is being judged and rewarded for it's wicked and evil ways and the worst is still to come - unless perhaps we as a nation repent and follow God's ways.



    Wake up America! Wake up and follow God!
  • Reply 443 of 1351
    I firmly support putting this measure on the ballot because it's a complete and total sham that appointed judges can over rule the will of the people in a democracy. The only power the people have over the judges is an amendment and we're going to continue to see this as people realize that passing laws doesn't mean a [email protected] thing when some judge decides that his/her interpretation of the law says it's illegal.



    I still think if judges are going to overturn a law they should need the same 2/3 majority that congress needs to overrule a presidential veto...



    EDIT: The idea of checks and balances is, at this point, nothing more than idea and should BO win and the Democrats get the magic 60 in the Senate you can say goodbye to any attempt of catering to the minority. And by minority I mean republicans - crazy huh? I wonder if saying you're a republican will get you a scholarship when going to college...
  • Reply 444 of 1351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BanditoB View Post


    Buying Apple products has always been supporting homosexuality as soon as they began offering partner benefits. Where was the hue and cry then or the mass exodus of customers? If one is going to scrutinize every company for whether they 'promote' homosexuality or 'its agenda' then one should do one's homework and be consistent about it. It's much easier to nip it in the bud.



    I can't believe I'm actually trying to educate those on the other side!



    But that was a fairly easy argument of saying you want the best talent. CA banning same sex marriage (as far as I'm aware this measure doesn't do anything to civil unions that are, legally speaking, exactly the same as marriages) doesn't have anything to do with Apple offering same sex couple benefits as they will continue to do it.
  • Reply 445 of 1351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Macvault View Post


    Shame on Apple and on those who support this abomination! This is SICK, WICKED and WRONG! God is ever so merciful but He cannot let such wickedness last and He will execute His pure and righteous judgment for such abominable acts of sin! Repent NOW, you sinful and wicked United States of America! Forbid the murdering of unborn babies! Forbid homosexuality! Forbid gay marriage! REPENT! Turn back to God before it's too late!



    Our once-great country, USA, is beginning to see God's judgment - the fall of the economy, the Bush regime, the 9/11 attacks carried out and exploited by our own government, our weakening as a sovereign nation, etc., and a big piece of this judgment is this next presidential election - whichever candidate gets in office - they are both as crooked as the day is long and have agendas aiming to destroy our nation. This country is being judged and rewarded for it's wicked and evil ways and the worst is still to come - unless perhaps we as a nation repent and follow God's ways.



    Wake up America! Wake up and follow God!



    lol see Vincenzo? toldya better leave politics and religion out of Apple, now everybody is coming out of the woodwork. I think you and him should get a room
  • Reply 446 of 1351
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    My admiration for Apple has just increased.



    For those who think this is wrong consider this:



    Everyone is entitled to the same basic human rights. The attempt to make the world a fairer place is the basis of a universal morality. It is also one of the bits of the US constitution that is the most impressive.



    The angrier the attacks get, the more it sounds *exactly* like the Taliban.



    C.
  • Reply 447 of 1351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    My admiration for Apple has just increased.



    For those who think this is wrong consider this:



    Everyone is entitled to the same basic human rights. The attempt to make the world a fairer place is the basis of a universal morality. It is also one of the bits of the US constitution that is the most impressive.



    The angrier the attacks get, the more it sounds *exactly* like the Taliban.



    C.



    you went off the deep end when you mentioned the Taliban...



    And since you mentioned the US Constitution please refer to pages earlier where it's clearly stated time and again that the constitution never once even uses the word marriage. Also, you're considering marriage a basic human right? Wow... And here I thought stuff like clean drinking water was a basic human right. What about a single person who doesn't really find someone he/she would like to marry? Are their "rights" being violated?
  • Reply 448 of 1351
    I just feel the need to share a couple of things, though why I tilt at windmills...



    First, we do not live in a democracy! We live in a republic. The difference is that the majority does not rule and the rights of the minority are (generally) preserved. This is why we have the judiciary. To preserve everyone's rights, be they part of the majority or the minority. It was in this capacity that the California Supreme Court issued their ruling.



    Can we change our core 'values' ensconced in our various constitutions. Yes, we most certainly can. But be very careful of the changes that you make. One day the changes could go against you or your minority (we all belong to some). We need to avoid excluding various groups from the rights that we enjoy and usually take for granted.



    Finally, why do people get so confused over drives/feelings/emotions, our soul or core being so to speak, and behavior??? Here's what I'm getting at. I am gay. My soul makes me attracted to other men (and no, not all of you! I just want another gay one); my drives/feelings/emotions, of which I have no control over, they simply are and they are neither wrong nor right. They are what they are. However, I can choose my behavior. I [/B]can[/B] choose to ignore my core being and lead a 'normal' life as a heterosexual man with a wife and kids; many of us do. But that doesn't change the fact that my core being has these drives/feelings/emotions. As has been documented time and time again, gay men that have been 'repaired' continue to have these same drives/feelings/emotions. They simply (though they'll tell you it is no simple thing) choose a differing behavior.



    So, in summary, we can choose to behave in any manner that we want to. We do not, however, have control over our souls or core beings. Trust me when I tell you that I know this very well as I tried to deny this for many, many very unhappy years as I tried to be what my church said I must be. I finally could no longer deal with the stress and have been much happier and much more healthy since I came out and embraced who I truly am.



    We should all seek to support one another and help each of us to reach our true potentials rather than harness each other with ludicrous baggage.



    Okay, I've had my say.



    As a native, but former Californian, would someone there please cast a No on Proposition 8 vote for me? Pretty please?
  • Reply 449 of 1351
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post


    you went off the deep end when you mentioned the Taliban...



    And since you mentioned the US Constitution please refer to pages earlier where it's clearly stated time and again that the constitution never once even uses the word marriage. Also, you're considering marriage a basic human right? Wow... And here I thought stuff like clean drinking water was a basic human right. What about a single person who doesn't really find someone he/she would like to marry? Are their "rights" being violated?



    The constitution kicks off to a good start:



    We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    Thomas Jefferson



    Marriage to my wife of 19 years was certainly a big part of my personal pursuit of happiness. I think for a lot of people it matters a lot. Personally I would not withhold that right to to anyone - as long at they took the obligations of marriage seriously.



    While the Taliban ruled Afghanistan, it regularly executed homosexuals. Islamic jurists in Kabul and Kandahar only differed on the method of killing. One group of scholars believed the condemned should be taken to the top of the highest building in the city and hurled to their deaths, while others advocated placing them in a pit next to a wall which was to be toppled on them, so that they are buried alive. Both methods were solidly grounded in authoritative tradition, and both were applied. At least five men convicted of sodomy by Afghanistan?s sharia courts had been ?placed next to walls by Taliban officials and then buried under the rubble as the walls were toppled upon them.? In one such incident, three homosexuals were punished thus while Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar watched along with thousands of spectators.





    You theists are all the freaking same. Bigotry and evil to the core. You may be motivated by your own hatred, but you justify it by hiding behind arguments from old books full of vitriol and bile from a less civilized age.



    Please, please, please just go away and stop spoiling this perfectly nice planet for the rest of us decent folk.



    C.
  • Reply 450 of 1351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    The constitution kicks off to a good start:



    We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    Thomas Jefferson



    Marriage to my wife of 19 years was certainly a big part of my personal pursuit of happiness. I think for a lot of people it matters a lot. Personally I would not withhold that right to to anyone - as long at they took the obligations of marriage seriously.



    While the Taliban ruled Afghanistan, it regularly executed homosexuals. Islamic jurists in Kabul and Kandahar only differed on the method of killing. One group of scholars believed the condemned should be taken to the top of the highest building in the city and hurled to their deaths, while others advocated placing them in a pit next to a wall which was to be toppled on them, so that they are buried alive. Both methods were solidly grounded in authoritative tradition, and both were applied. At least five men convicted of sodomy by Afghanistan?s sharia courts had been ?placed next to walls by Taliban officials and then buried under the rubble as the walls were toppled upon them.? In one such incident, three homosexuals were punished thus while Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar watched along with thousands of spectators.





    You theists are all the freaking same. Bigotry and evil to the core. You may be motivated by your own hatred, but you justify it by hiding behind arguments from old books full of vitriol and bile from a less civilized age.



    Please, please, please just go away and stop spoiling this perfectly nice planet for the rest of us decent folk.



    C.



    So, I take it you didn't read the previous pages... That's the Declaration of Independence - it has absolutely no legal baring on the United State of America...



    Oh right, I see - it's soooo clear. Saying you can't marry but can enter into civil union is exactly like executing them. Again, you went way, way off the deep end...
  • Reply 451 of 1351
    i think if you look at all of the responses on here you will see, as do all of the candidates this year, that marriage is indeed a matter of faith. That's why they all support civil unions and equal rights of gay couples, which i totally agree with. For the state to tell a church, synagogue, mosque, etc. that they MUST allow marriage between same sex couples seems a little inconsistent with the big picture of separation of church and state that so many people support. If the state is allowed to come into a religious institution and tell it what it should believe (like some parts of europe and asia - communism, monarchies) and Apple supports that, then will Apple also financially support a push to bring prayer into schools? If not, then that would seem inconsistent and very hypocritical. It's gotta go both ways to be fair Apple, or you have an open agenda in my opinion. Just my thoughts...
  • Reply 452 of 1351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appleseeegs View Post


    i think if you look at all of the responses on here you will see, as do all of the candidates this year, that marriage is indeed a matter of faith. That's why they all support civil unions and equal rights of gay couples, which i totally agree with. For the state to tell a church, synagogue, mosque, etc. that they MUST allow marriage between same sex couples seems a little inconsistent with the big picture of separation of church and state that so many people support. If the state is allowed to come into a religious institution and tell it what it should believe (like some parts of europe and asia - communism, monarchies) and Apple supports that, then will Apple also financially support a push to bring prayer into schools? If not, then that would seem inconsistent and very hypocritical. It's gotta go both ways to be fair Apple, or you have an open agenda in my opinion. Just my thoughts...



    you'll get flamed for that - just FYI. Sorry, you aren't allowed to disagree or else you're just a "bigot." Those asking for tolerance (at least a lot of the ones on here) have no idea how to tolerate others views themselves. Interesting how those pushing same-sex marriage are being just as intolerant as those viscously opposed to it (again, for the most part, there are some moderates out there who respect intelligent points but they are few and far between on this thread)
  • Reply 453 of 1351
    citycity Posts: 522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post


    Oh maaan! Congratulations AI, now you know how to get unprecedented attention, let's do abortion next week



    Why wait? This looks like a free for all to me. Let keep off topic and keep abortion safe, available everywhere and rare! That would mean NOT voting for Palin. Anyone disagree? I am hoping for silence. All of this and we still don't know where Bill Gates stands on Prop 8.
  • Reply 454 of 1351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appleseeegs View Post


    i think if you look at all of the responses on here you will see, as do all of the candidates this year, that marriage is indeed a matter of faith. That's why they all support civil unions and equal rights of gay couples, which i totally agree with. For the state to tell a church, synagogue, mosque, etc. that they MUST allow marriage between same sex couples seems a little inconsistent with the big picture of separation of church and state that so many people support. If the state is allowed to come into a religious institution and tell it what it should believe (like some parts of europe and asia - communism, monarchies) and Apple supports that, then will Apple also financially support a push to bring prayer into schools? If not, then that would seem inconsistent and very hypocritical. It's gotta go both ways to be fair Apple, or you have an open agenda in my opinion. Just my thoughts...



    Marriage, as currently defined in the US has nothing to do with faith! It is a civil institution, which means that it is governed by our laws. Marriage rights are granted to you by the state and as such, they must be granted equally and fairly. To make this perfectly clear, you cannot have a marriage authorized by your church. You must apply for and be granted a license by one state or another or even a different country for it to be legally recognized.



    If marriage is such a sacred thing, then let's clean it up. In most, if not all, states, a heterosexual couple must do nothing more than cohabitate for a few years and they are legally married, even though they did not partake of a religious union. Let's eliminate divorce altogether as it is anti-marriage, so it must be against God's will, right? Certainly the quickie marriages in Vegas should be halted. And while we're at it, if you're not having kids, no marriage for you!



    At any rate, I think the ultimate solution to all of this is to split marriage into the two components that it really is: civil rights and religious dogma. The state would grant civil rights to all who apply for them and the churches can do whatever they want to do (as they are now and will continue to do well into the future). If you want a religious marriage, go to your church and get married. If you want any legal benefits/protections, go to the state. You can have one or the other or both, if that's what you desire.



    See how easy this is to solve?
  • Reply 455 of 1351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BanditoB View Post


    Marriage, as currently defined in the US has nothing to do with faith! It is a civil institution, which means that it is governed by our laws. Marriage rights are granted to you by the state and as such, they must be granted equally and fairly. To make this perfectly clear, you cannot have a marriage authorized by your church. You must apply for and be granted a license by one state or another or even a different country for it to be legally recognized.



    If marriage is such a sacred thing, then let's clean it up. In most, if not all, states, a heterosexual couple must do nothing more than cohabitate for a few years and they are legally married, even though they did not partake of a religious union. Let's eliminate divorce altogether as it is anti-marriage, so it must be against God's will, right? Certainly the quickie marriages in Vegas should be halted. And while we're at it, if you're not having kids, no marriage for you!



    At any rate, I think the ultimate solution to all of this is to split marriage into the two components that it really is: civil rights and religious dogma. The state would grant civil rights to all who apply for them and the churches can do whatever they want to do (as they are now and will continue to do well into the future). If you want a religious marriage, go to your church and get married. If you want any legal benefits/protections, go to the state. You can have one or the other or both, if that's what you desire.



    See how easy this is to solve?



    wow. you seem pretty agitated about this topic. why is it not enough to have a civil union that has the same legal rights as a married straight couple? i am asking this not as a point of counter-argument but trying to understand (understand civilly if that is possible on this heated topic). It seems like you think gay couples should have the same legal rights. I agree. It seems you do not want just legal rights but to also redefine what marriage means?? am i correct?



    i do fully agree with you about cleaning marriage up. there is way too much divorce. if you know of any self-reflecting adult who comes from a divorced family, they will tell you divorce had a negative impact (usually a significant one at that) on them somehow. And the co-habitation thing...i agree. maybe that should be called a civil union??



    btw...I never said kids were a prerequisite for marriage. please do not put words in my mouth.



    I think you and I are agreeing more than you might think. The only divergence is the semantics of the word "marriage." Is that a fair analysis?
  • Reply 456 of 1351
    citycity Posts: 522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BanditoB View Post


    Marriage, as currently defined in the US has nothing to do with faith! It is a civil institution, which means that it is governed by our laws. Marriage rights are granted to you by the state and as such, they must be granted equally and fairly. To make this perfectly clear, you cannot have a marriage authorized by your church. You must apply for and be granted a license by one state or another or even a different country for it to be legally recognized.



    If marriage is such a sacred thing, then let's clean it up. In most, if not all, states, a heterosexual couple must do nothing more than cohabitate for a few years and they are legally married, even though they did not partake of a religious union. Let's eliminate divorce altogether as it is anti-marriage, so it must be against God's will, right? Certainly the quickie marriages in Vegas should be halted. And while we're at it, if you're not having kids, no marriage for you!



    At any rate, I think the ultimate solution to all of this is to split marriage into the two components that it really is: civil rights and religious dogma. The state would grant civil rights to all who apply for them and the churches can do whatever they want to do (as they are now and will continue to do well into the future). If you want a religious marriage, go to your church and get married. If you want any legal benefits/protections, go to the state. You can have one or the other or both, if that's what you desire.



    See how easy this is to solve?



    Get the government out of the marriage business. It should be contract law.
  • Reply 457 of 1351
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by city View Post


    Get the government out of the marriage business. It should be contract law.



    How can you have a contract law and not have the government get involved? Who mediates the inevitable contractual issues?
  • Reply 458 of 1351
    HAH! I always knew Steve had a boyfriend, and all this time everyone thought I was crazy.
  • Reply 459 of 1351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OahuSurf View Post


    HAH! I always knew Steve had a boyfriend, and all this time everyone thought I was crazy.



    Bah



    I always thought the beau was Jony Ive
  • Reply 460 of 1351
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post


    So, I take it you didn't read the previous pages... That's the Declaration of Independence - it has absolutely no legal baring on the United State of America...



    Yeah, clearly it has no importance to people like you. You only wave the parts of the flag you agree with.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post


    Oh right, I see - it's soooo clear. Saying you can't marry but can enter into civil union is exactly like executing them. Again, you went way, way off the deep end...



    I ask you....

    Does not this sound like a little bit like Mullah Omar?



    Shame On Apple!

    Shame on Apple and on those who support this abomination! This is SICK, WICKED and WRONG! God is ever so merciful but He cannot let such wickedness last and He will execute His pure and righteous judgment for such abominable acts of sin! Repent NOW, you sinful and wicked United States of America! Forbid the murdering of unborn babies! Forbid homosexuality! Forbid gay marriage! REPENT! Turn back to God before it's too late!




    C.
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