Informed players say Apple's Mac mini still kickin'

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  • Reply 141 of 158
    synpsynp Posts: 248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    6.

    Pulling the brick off the wall and putting it into a Cinema display is a very smart move in my book. It should actually increase system reliability from a power distribution point of view.



    Still, if you adjust the display and pull the magsafe out of your laptop, no biggie. If you pull it out of your Mini, that's a bad thing. I agree that the magsafe makes no sense without a battery, a capacitor, or some weird mechanical latch.
  • Reply 142 of 158
    meelashmeelash Posts: 1,045member
    I think the fact is, that a scenario where the power cord is pulled out of your mini and a hard shut down resulting in file system damage and loss of unsaved work is inherently unacceptable from a design standpoint. A lot of you are saying, "I'd rather have a hard shut down than have my mini pulled off the table,"but from Apple's perspective, they'd rather have a few people pull their mini's off of the table (which is that user's "fault") than have even one person inadvertently pull out a MagSafe-type connector, in which case the resulting havoc (although it might be relatively minor) would be Apple's fault.



    In the case of a laptop, it is a best of both worlds scenario. In the case of the mini, it would be a lesser of two evil's scenario, and I certainly don't see apple choosing the evil that places the blame for hard shutdowns squarely on their @**.



    As far as the suggestions for a mechanical latch, capacitor etc., I agree that stuff could work, but I really don't see Apple going to that kind of trouble and expense on their lowest end computer just to make it "look cute" with the new displays.



    Anyways, aren't the powercord, etc., on the new displays detachable on the display end. Isn't it possible for apple to just sell a different cord for the mini than the sell for laptops?
  • Reply 143 of 158
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by synp View Post


    Still, if you adjust the display and pull the magsafe out of your laptop, no biggie. If you pull it out of your Mini, that's a bad thing. I agree that the magsafe makes no sense without a battery, a capacitor, or some weird mechanical latch.



    Have you all ever seen the power connector on a current mini? It's very easy, with a slight pull, for the power cord to come out of its socket. It's never accidentally happened to me, having owned two minis since the G4. It's very unlikely it would happen with a Magsafe connector, either.
  • Reply 144 of 158
    synpsynp Posts: 248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iDave View Post


    Have you all ever seen the power connector on a current mini? It's very easy, with a slight pull, for the power cord to come out of its socket. It's never accidentally happened to me, having owned two minis since the G4. It's very unlikely it would happen with a Magsafe connector, either.



    Pops out of my MBP all the time when I move it. If the connector is coming out of the display, than adjusting the display could yank the power out.
  • Reply 145 of 158
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by synp View Post


    Pops out of my MBP all the time when I move it. If the connector is coming out of the display, than adjusting the display could yank the power out.



    I think perhaps the Magsafe connector you have doesn't have a good magnet. Mine never comes off unless I actually trip over the cord or something like that. But I won't argue this point any longer.
  • Reply 146 of 158
    Bring on the MagSafe connector. Any plug that you don't have to twist things around to get a head-on view of to insert is a contribution to mental health.



    I speak as a guy whose first VCR had a wired remote, with a DIN plug, that plugged in the back! Reach around, try to find the (flush) socket, try to make sure the collar is going exactly into the ring gap, turn and try and try to find the proper orientation....AAARGH!



    This is another reason USB should replace Firewire (as soon as USB3 is available, of course.)
  • Reply 147 of 158
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,893member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by meelash View Post


    I think the fact is, that a scenario where the power cord is pulled out of your mini and a hard shut down resulting in file system damage and loss of unsaved work is inherently unacceptable from a design standpoint.



    I don't buy that because consumers have been accepting the risk for some time now. For example take some of SonY's professional video equipment, much of that has come with an auxiliary retainer for the IEC plug. I have yet to see such on any consumer equipment. Plus as has been pointed out the MagSafe isn't any worst than some things Apple already uses.

    Quote:

    A lot of you are saying, "I'd rather have a hard shut down than have my mini pulled off the table,"but from Apple's perspective, they'd rather have a few people pull their mini's off of the table (which is that user's "fault") than have even one person inadvertently pull out a MagSafe-type connector, in which case the resulting havoc (although it might be relatively minor) would be Apple's fault.



    From Apples perspective they want happy consumers. They however don't need to go into bankruptcy delivering and warranting such hardware. MagSafe provides for several advantages that Apple can utilize, but it is not just Apple that wins with MagSafe.

    Quote:



    In the case of a laptop, it is a best of both worlds scenario. In the case of the mini, it would be a lesser of two evil's scenario, and I certainly don't see apple choosing the evil that places the blame for hard shutdowns squarely on their @**.



    Well most hard shut downs are user related one way or the other. What people are missing here though is that it is not outside the possibility for Apple to provide for a system that handles power loss from the MagSae connector gracefully.



    The other thing to realize is that the MagSafe connector is part of a 3 headed cord that would also have video, and USB connections plugged in. So you would need to yank all three at the same time.

    Quote:

    As far as the suggestions for a mechanical latch, capacitor etc., I agree that stuff could work, but I really don't see Apple going to that kind of trouble and expense on their lowest end computer just to make it "look cute" with the new displays.



    A suitable value super capacitor isn't that expensive. Frankly if used it provides Apple with a marketing feature especially if coupled with a safe power down. In many applications it would eliminate the need for a UPS. The only question is how long does the cap have to last before the unit shuts down. 5 minutes, or 10. At some point the super cap would become a size problem. Ideally Apple would need an approach that puts the Mac into safe mode within a minute.

    Quote:



    Anyways, aren't the powercord, etc., on the new displays detachable on the display end. Isn't it possible for apple to just sell a different cord for the mini than the sell for laptops?



    Good Question!



    Dave
  • Reply 148 of 158
    Any mini news is good news.
  • Reply 149 of 158
    hudson1hudson1 Posts: 800member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    Any mini news is good news.



    Well, not if the news is the mini is being eliminated.
  • Reply 150 of 158
    meelashmeelash Posts: 1,045member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I don't buy that because consumers have been accepting the risk for some time now. For example take some of SonY's professional video equipment, much of that has come with an auxiliary retainer for the IEC plug. I have yet to see such on any consumer equipment. Plus as has been pointed out the MagSafe isn't any worst than some things Apple already uses.



    If your MagSafe is as difficult to pull out as an IEC plug, you've got one screwed up MagSafe. IEC's don't come out accidentally, auxiliary retainer or no.



    Quote:

    From Apples perspective they want happy consumers. They however don't need to go into bankruptcy delivering and warranting such hardware. MagSafe provides for several advantages that Apple can utilize, but it is not just Apple that wins with MagSafe.



    Apple's warranty doesn't cover misuse related damages, and that includes accidentally pulling it off of a table. Most people, when they pull their computer off the table, do not blame the manufacturer. That's why Apple was the first to come up with something like the MagSafe for portables.



    Quote:

    A suitable value super capacitor isn't that expensive. Frankly if used it provides Apple with a marketing feature especially if coupled with a safe power down. In many applications it would eliminate the need for a UPS. The only question is how long does the cap have to last before the unit shuts down. 5 minutes, or 10. At some point the super cap would become a size problem. Ideally Apple would need an approach that puts the Mac into safe mode within a minute.



    I won't argue that. Generally, laptops take much less than 30 seconds to sleep, in my experience. I've also noticed that if it sleeps because of low battery, it seems to force to sleep faster and with more consistency than if it is sleeping because you closed the lid. This is something I noticed even with Tiger, when my PB G4 used to sometimes hang while going to sleep. But it never had that problem when it was forced to sleep by low battery.



    Again, I think the deciding factor here would be how much worth it is to Apple to have the mini look cute with the new displays; if it's worth more than even the design resources spent on designing a backup power source, than they might well do it.
  • Reply 151 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post


    Well, not if the news is the mini is being eliminated.



    True, true, but as long as we're talking about it, we know it's still around. Or something like that.

    ...

    Based on its price alone, I have to believe that the mini is one of Apple's best-selling models. And it also has to be one of the most reliable Macs ever made, you never hear anyone complaining about problems and refurbs are almost impossible to find.



    So from a purely business standpoint, I can't believe Apple would kill the mini. It just wouldn't make sense. I understand why it has been neglected, though- the market it is targeted at doesn't demand the latest and greatest as much as others, and the longer it goes without an update, the bigger the margin gets (up to the point where parts become hard to find).
  • Reply 152 of 158
    ksecksec Posts: 1,567member
    I suddenly thought what about Mac Mini, with Dual Core Atom, and Geforce 9400M?



    May be with an even lower part, like Geforce 9300M, making the most affordable Mac ever?



    Since Dual Core Atom has 4 threads, GrandCentral in Snow Leopard could be a good fit.



    And even at 499 or even 399, Apple still make heavy margin.
  • Reply 153 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ksec View Post


    I suddenly thought what about Mac Mini, with Dual Core Atom, and Geforce 9400M?



    May be with an even lower part, like Geforce 9300M, making the most affordable Mac ever?



    Since Dual Core Atom has 4 threads, GrandCentral in Snow Leopard could be a good fit.



    And even at 499 or even 399, Apple still make heavy margin.



    The atom low l2 and low bus speed will make it slower then to days mini.
  • Reply 154 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post


    The atom low l2 and low bus speed will make it slower then to days mini.



    Low L2 and slow bus speed aren't the reason Atom is slow. Atom is slow because it is a very simple, in-order processor that sacrifices many features to fit in a low power envelope.



    Atom in any form would be unacceptable as a replacement for the Core 2 CPU in the mini.
  • Reply 155 of 158
    Well I hope the Mac Mini doesn't disappear. I'm working on a huge digital signage project where I'm planning to use the Mac Mini's in tandem with Sedna Presenter. Cost + Form Factor + Ease of Use = Mac Mini's going off the shelf pretty quickly for digital signage use!



    Home

    http://www.sedna.de/



    More Info

    http://www.activatethespace.com/Acti...e/_sedna_.html
  • Reply 156 of 158
    Apple like to cut down on size so there obviously going to cut down a few things on the mini. The internal speaker will go. The internal power source will go and so will the DVI/ VGI port will go.



    The power will be replaced for the mag safe as apple isnt just going to start making a different cable for the mac mini.



    It will be fully compatible with the Led cinema display. Think about it. its nearly the same size screen as the old monitor for the mac mini.



    It has Isight, speakers and mic. Think about it all the laptops already have this and the imac have this aswell. so now its time for mac mini to enjoy these features. just connect the mac mini to the led cinema display and it can enjoy all of the features as the other macs.



    It will definately not have hdmi as this would kill the apple tv. It possibly will have a full size hard drive, but also the apple tv hard drive will increase.



    As for the looks i think the white on top of the mini will turn to black as this look is extending over the mac range and i think that a apple tv update will see a black and silver mac mini and maybe time capsule aswell



    Alot of features will definately be added to the mac mini so many that the price may have to increase to $900 - $1000 i dont know if they are going to call it the mac mini the mac nano or whatever we all know it will be a mac mini at heart and that we love the mac mini because of its size
  • Reply 157 of 158
    Welcome to Apple Insider.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trigga92 View Post


    Apple like to cut down on size so there obviously going to cut down a few things on the mini. The internal speaker will go. The internal power source will go and so will the DVI/ VGI port will go.



    The Mac mini does not have an internal power supply, but a rather large brick on a chord.

    Apple will not remove the speaker. All Macs have had an internal speaker... this is part of their philosophy. When you plug in the Cinema Display the internal speaker will be silenced and use the one in the Cinema Display.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trigga92 View Post


    The power will be replaced for the mag safe as apple isnt just going to start making a different cable for the mac mini.



    It will be fully compatible with the Led cinema display. Think about it. its nearly the same size screen as the old monitor for the mac mini.



    Apple will probably introduce a 20-21" version of the LED Cinema Display with iSight when they introduce the new Mac mini



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trigga92 View Post


    It has Isight, speakers and mic. Think about it all the laptops already have this and the imac have this aswell. so now its time for mac mini to enjoy these features. just connect the mac mini to the led cinema display and it can enjoy all of the features as the other macs.



    It will definately not have hdmi as this would kill the apple tv. It possibly will have a full size hard drive, but also the apple tv hard drive will increase.



    It will not have a full size hard drive.

    If they introduce a similar product with a full size hard drive it will not be called a Mac mini.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trigga92 View Post


    As for the looks i think the white on top of the mini will turn to black as this look is extending over the mac range and i think that a apple tv update will see a black and silver mac mini and maybe time capsule aswell



    I think they will go for a more complete aluminum look.

    The new cinema displays do not have a black back like the iMacs.

    The back of the new cinema displays has an aluminum finish.

    I hope the new mini is carved from a single block of aluminum.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trigga92 View Post


    Alot of features will definately be added to the mac mini so many that the price may have to increase to $900 - $1000 i dont know if they are going to call it the mac mini the mac nano or whatever we all know it will be a mac mini at heart and that we love the mac mini because of its size



    Price will still be in the $600-700 ballpark.
  • Reply 158 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post


    I think they will go for a more complete aluminum look.

    The new cinema displays do not have a black back like the iMacs.

    The back of the new cinema displays has an aluminum finish.

    I hope the new mini is carved from a single block of aluminum.



    Yes. The black is only used as a surround on Apple's new displays. It will be completely alumin[i]um.



    It will not have HDMI, but that is not because it would kill Apple TV. A Mac Mini will still be able to be connected to an HDTV. Apple TV is much much cheaper and works for a rather different market.
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