Apple created the hardware, it's running their OS, and they run the App Store. They can deny any app they choose. [...] There's nothing anti-competitive about what they're doing.
I'm with Apple on this one. Introducing 3rd party browsers on the iPhone would turn it into a mess as it is on the desktop having applications that work in one browser and not the other. Having only one browser and ONLY one browser would guarantee that an iPhone-enabled website will in fact work on an iPhone.
All you conspiracy-theorists can contemplate Apple's true wickedness on this subject until you're blue in the face. The reality is that Apple wants to maintain consistent core functionality so the end-user doesn't have to complain about why a certain web app doesn't work or display properly on the iPhone. The 2% of you guys still continue to think of this device as a miniature handheld "desktop" computer when it is not. I can totally understand why Apple does it and appreciate them for having the cajones to say "No" to people/companies/whiners for certain apps.
If what you're looking for is a free-for-all wild-west mentality, then by all means sell your iPhone and pick up a G1 Android phone and be done with the whining. 98% of iPhone users will not give even a minimal damn about loading Opera or any other browser. Honestly, g-e-t o-v-e-r i-t!
Any "real" web developer knows what a pain in the backside it is to develop a web-app and have to test it on every flavor of web browser in various operating systems to make sure everything is consistent and works right. Most just give up and have it work on a couple popular browsers and be done with it. We have enough of a headache developing our web apps on the desktop and appreciate the cleanliness that the iPhone presents to us.
Apple allowing only their browser on the iPhone will make it so much easier for iPhone web developers to ensure their iPhone sites can be tested once and it will work on every iPhone. Implementing Flash or Java is a separate subject.
This is not about you. This is about eliminating confusion and frustration for the joe-end-user.
but...this is what smart business is. I am sorry, but it's apples phone, apples rules. And I would go so far to say this was also fair in the MS browser wars (and any anti-comp talk about MS). It's their software, their rules. This is what capitalism is people...plain and simple...its dog eat dog out there and you must do what you can to get and stay ahead.
now i dont know enough to say if this is to do with binaries or core function issues...but..thems the breaks. whine and moan that a certain company won't let you on their phone...gimme a break...opera hasn't made headway onto the desktop..do they really think they will win on the mobile platform?? Seriously...???
I'm kind of on the fence on this one but swaying in favour of Apple's stance. After all, Safari provides core functionality on both the iPhone and iPod Touch which are both essentially closed platforms. The app store and the ability to install apps gives the illusion of openness but it is just that, an illusion. I can completely understand why Apple wants to protect its platform and many other companies do the same with their own technology but it's not as noticeable because third parties in most cases have little to no chance of making any money by offering alternative core functionality on devices like game consoles and other closed software platforms such as the plethora of handheld devices currently on the market. I can't imagine Sony agreeing to an alternative media player on the PS3, for example. Or perhaps TomTom could allow us to install third party codecs for the media players in its sat-nav systems. I doubt it... So why should Apple allow this? Especially when it clearly breaks the rules they laid out after investing so much time, money and effort in developing an SDK and distribution system built precisely to protect its investment in this new platform.
I was kind of on the fence when I started writing this but all that swaying leaves me in the Apple camp. Sorry Opera.
I couldn´t agree more! It´s Apple´s phone... It´s Apples hardware. They decide! And when they can do this, why would they then let a competitor in "the backdoor"? As I described earlier, is Apple probably having very good reasons not to do so. They are protecting future products in order to win even more market share. It´s their product and their choice. If they fail they fail. If they succeed it will be with glamorous features and quallity products. Let them do it "the Apple way"
No amount of RDF or rationalization should allow you to conclude anything other than Apple is being a giant dick right now regarding 3rd party development.
No amount of RDF or rationalization should allow you to conclude anything other than Apple is being a giant dick right now regarding 3rd party development.
No amount of RDF or rationalization should allow you to conclude anything other than Apple is being a giant dick right now regarding 3rd party development.
There was a time when we all thought it was a miracle that Apple was offering the means for third parties to develop in a controlled environment. I think the current setup is a sweet deal for most people developers/consumers/Apple. Of course you'll find the odd disgruntled techno geek or developer but if they're not happy don't bother with the iPhone. Apple are simply protecting their investment in the platform they created.
Safari for iPhone may still have a few bugs but they'll be dealt with precisely because the environment in which Safari runs is a very controlled one making it easier to manage and pin point where things are going wrong. I seem to remember Safari on the desktop had its fair share of problems to start with but over time bugs were dealt with and features were added.
If you still think they're being dicks, go and buy a phone from a less dickish company. Let me know what you come up with.
I can't believe you don't recognize the contradiction in your own statement. The situation you have described is precisely what "anti-competitive" means.
You compete in a market. You do not compete on one proprietary platform.
Apple used its own resources to develop the iPhone and is free to use it as they choose. What Apple decides for the iPhone does not impact competition for the entire mobile phone market as a whole.
No amount of RDF or rationalization should allow you to conclude anything other than Apple is being a giant dick right now regarding 3rd party development.
Looking at how quickly the App store has grown with nearly 5000 apps that have accounted for over 200 million downloads. Can you site a vastly more successful development platform?
Looking at how quickly the App store has grown with nearly 5000 apps that have accounted for over 200 million downloads. Can you site a vastly more successful development platform?
Windows for starters. I'm all for improving Sw standards, but the apps I have on my Touch are buggier on average than apps on my WinMob PDA or Symbian smartphone, the supposed Apple QC just doesn't exist in the app store. And I would like it if the paid apps had more demos so that you could try them first.
And mobile Safari would be a lot better if it didn't crash as often - really it doesn't run java or flash, so it should be very, very stable but it's not. It's a good mobile browser, but it's far from great.
Opera Mini is fast and almost never crashes on my Mogul 6800. SkyFire would be another must have browser on the iPhone, as things currently stand. Browsers would rake in money for Apple, just like tethering plans. I'm using NetShare and I've never had any trouble from ATT because of it. So much for all those fear mongers on that subject!
I'm with Apple on this one. Introducing 3rd party browsers on the iPhone would turn it into a mess as it is on the desktop having applications that work in one browser and not the other. Having only one browser and ONLY one browser would guarantee that an iPhone-enabled website will in fact work on an iPhone.
Yeah, that's a very good point, Im sure web developers had enough with the different web browser standards.
Safari is shit, it crashes atleast 4 times a day on me. The only reason why Apple doesn't want Opera on the iPhone is because they know the Opera team will do a better job.
They killed the over the air podcast because they didn't want any competition, and now they are killing the Opera browser.....what a bunch of pussies they have at Apple.
Anyone have the link to jailbreak a iPhone 2.1 software.
Safari is shit, it crashes atleast 4 times a day on me. The only reason why Apple doesn't want Opera on the iPhone is because they know the Opera team will do a better job.
They killed the over the air podcast because they didn't want any competition, and now they are killing the Opera browser.....what a bunch of pussies they have at Apple.
Anyone have the link to jailbreak a iPhone 2.1 software.
Exactly, Mobile Safari is absolute junk. It crashes numerous times a day for me. Last night, I was browsing eBay and had AppleInsider open in background (second tab). Damn thing crashed 4 times in a span of twenty minutes on my iPod touch 2G. And that's all I was doing, browsing the web -- I wasn't even listening to music or anything
And worst of all, sometimes Safari crashes so hard that it deletes all my cookies -- which is a SERIOUS pain in the ass when I have about 100 pages bookmarked (there go all my logins/passwords).
Apple needs to get on the ball with all of these Safari crashes or let someone else step in with a superior platform.
Exactly, Mobile Safari is absolute junk. It crashes numerous times a day for me. Last night, I was browsing eBay and had AppleInsider open in background (second tab). Damn thing crashed 4 times in a span of twenty minutes on my iPod touch 2G. And that's all I was doing, browsing the web -- I wasn't even listening to music or anything...
Apple needs to get on the ball with all of these Safari crashes or let someone else step in with a superior platform.
People still expect iPhones to be a computer, it is not.
1. iPhone has only 128MB RAM. Please check your activity monitor and see how much RAM it uses. (mine shows 77MB with appleinsider.com).
2. That's probably one big reason why Apple doesn't allow background processes. A couple of those and the whole RAM gets eaten up.
3. A lot of websites are huge messes these days. YouTube takes almost 80% of CPU on my P-M 1.3G. Even AppleInsider.com takes 15% of CPU of my 2G C2D when it is complete idle. Some Chinese websites take 60% of CPU when it is completely IDLE!
4. A third party web browser, which would only want to add features with no regard on hardware, RAM and battery, will only crash more, and guess what they are going to say? "It is Apple's fault, iPhone doesn't have enough RAM, not powerful enough etc".
Comments
Apple created the hardware, it's running their OS, and they run the App Store. They can deny any app they choose. [...] There's nothing anti-competitive about what they're doing.
In your mind maybe.
All you conspiracy-theorists can contemplate Apple's true wickedness on this subject until you're blue in the face. The reality is that Apple wants to maintain consistent core functionality so the end-user doesn't have to complain about why a certain web app doesn't work or display properly on the iPhone. The 2% of you guys still continue to think of this device as a miniature handheld "desktop" computer when it is not. I can totally understand why Apple does it and appreciate them for having the cajones to say "No" to people/companies/whiners for certain apps.
If what you're looking for is a free-for-all wild-west mentality, then by all means sell your iPhone and pick up a G1 Android phone and be done with the whining. 98% of iPhone users will not give even a minimal damn about loading Opera or any other browser. Honestly, g-e-t o-v-e-r i-t!
Any "real" web developer knows what a pain in the backside it is to develop a web-app and have to test it on every flavor of web browser in various operating systems to make sure everything is consistent and works right. Most just give up and have it work on a couple popular browsers and be done with it. We have enough of a headache developing our web apps on the desktop and appreciate the cleanliness that the iPhone presents to us.
Apple allowing only their browser on the iPhone will make it so much easier for iPhone web developers to ensure their iPhone sites can be tested once and it will work on every iPhone. Implementing Flash or Java is a separate subject.
This is not about you. This is about eliminating confusion and frustration for the joe-end-user.
*end of rant*
now i dont know enough to say if this is to do with binaries or core function issues...but..thems the breaks. whine and moan that a certain company won't let you on their phone...gimme a break...opera hasn't made headway onto the desktop..do they really think they will win on the mobile platform?? Seriously...???
I'm kind of on the fence on this one but swaying in favour of Apple's stance. After all, Safari provides core functionality on both the iPhone and iPod Touch which are both essentially closed platforms. The app store and the ability to install apps gives the illusion of openness but it is just that, an illusion. I can completely understand why Apple wants to protect its platform and many other companies do the same with their own technology but it's not as noticeable because third parties in most cases have little to no chance of making any money by offering alternative core functionality on devices like game consoles and other closed software platforms such as the plethora of handheld devices currently on the market. I can't imagine Sony agreeing to an alternative media player on the PS3, for example. Or perhaps TomTom could allow us to install third party codecs for the media players in its sat-nav systems. I doubt it... So why should Apple allow this? Especially when it clearly breaks the rules they laid out after investing so much time, money and effort in developing an SDK and distribution system built precisely to protect its investment in this new platform.
I was kind of on the fence when I started writing this but all that swaying leaves me in the Apple camp. Sorry Opera.
I couldn´t agree more! It´s Apple´s phone... It´s Apples hardware. They decide! And when they can do this, why would they then let a competitor in "the backdoor"? As I described earlier, is Apple probably having very good reasons not to do so. They are protecting future products in order to win even more market share. It´s their product and their choice. If they fail they fail. If they succeed it will be with glamorous features and quallity products. Let them do it "the Apple way"
No amount of RDF or rationalization should allow you to conclude anything other than Apple is being a giant dick right now regarding 3rd party development.
...and your argument is?
No amount of RDF or rationalization should allow you to conclude anything other than Apple is being a giant dick right now regarding 3rd party development.
There was a time when we all thought it was a miracle that Apple was offering the means for third parties to develop in a controlled environment. I think the current setup is a sweet deal for most people developers/consumers/Apple. Of course you'll find the odd disgruntled techno geek or developer but if they're not happy don't bother with the iPhone. Apple are simply protecting their investment in the platform they created.
Safari for iPhone may still have a few bugs but they'll be dealt with precisely because the environment in which Safari runs is a very controlled one making it easier to manage and pin point where things are going wrong. I seem to remember Safari on the desktop had its fair share of problems to start with but over time bugs were dealt with and features were added.
If you still think they're being dicks, go and buy a phone from a less dickish company. Let me know what you come up with.
I can't believe you don't recognize the contradiction in your own statement. The situation you have described is precisely what "anti-competitive" means.
You compete in a market. You do not compete on one proprietary platform.
Apple used its own resources to develop the iPhone and is free to use it as they choose. What Apple decides for the iPhone does not impact competition for the entire mobile phone market as a whole.
No amount of RDF or rationalization should allow you to conclude anything other than Apple is being a giant dick right now regarding 3rd party development.
Looking at how quickly the App store has grown with nearly 5000 apps that have accounted for over 200 million downloads. Can you site a vastly more successful development platform?
Looking at how quickly the App store has grown with nearly 5000 apps that have accounted for over 200 million downloads. Can you site a vastly more successful development platform?
Windows for starters. I'm all for improving Sw standards, but the apps I have on my Touch are buggier on average than apps on my WinMob PDA or Symbian smartphone, the supposed Apple QC just doesn't exist in the app store. And I would like it if the paid apps had more demos so that you could try them first.
And mobile Safari would be a lot better if it didn't crash as often - really it doesn't run java or flash, so it should be very, very stable but it's not. It's a good mobile browser, but it's far from great.
I do not want someone else telling me what I can and cannot do with my own property.
I'm with Apple on this one. Introducing 3rd party browsers on the iPhone would turn it into a mess as it is on the desktop having applications that work in one browser and not the other. Having only one browser and ONLY one browser would guarantee that an iPhone-enabled website will in fact work on an iPhone.
Yeah, that's a very good point, Im sure web developers had enough with the different web browser standards.
They killed the over the air podcast because they didn't want any competition, and now they are killing the Opera browser.....what a bunch of pussies they have at Apple.
Anyone have the link to jailbreak a iPhone 2.1 software.
Safari is shit, it crashes atleast 4 times a day on me. The only reason why Apple doesn't want Opera on the iPhone is because they know the Opera team will do a better job.
They killed the over the air podcast because they didn't want any competition, and now they are killing the Opera browser.....what a bunch of pussies they have at Apple.
Anyone have the link to jailbreak a iPhone 2.1 software.
Exactly, Mobile Safari is absolute junk. It crashes numerous times a day for me. Last night, I was browsing eBay and had AppleInsider open in background (second tab). Damn thing crashed 4 times in a span of twenty minutes on my iPod touch 2G. And that's all I was doing, browsing the web -- I wasn't even listening to music or anything
And worst of all, sometimes Safari crashes so hard that it deletes all my cookies -- which is a SERIOUS pain in the ass when I have about 100 pages bookmarked (there go all my logins/passwords).
Apple needs to get on the ball with all of these Safari crashes or let someone else step in with a superior platform.
Who would WANT to run Opera mini on their iPhone anyway??? Its shite.
Safari is crap. Crashes like there's no tomorrow on the iPhone 3g.
Exactly, Mobile Safari is absolute junk. It crashes numerous times a day for me. Last night, I was browsing eBay and had AppleInsider open in background (second tab). Damn thing crashed 4 times in a span of twenty minutes on my iPod touch 2G. And that's all I was doing, browsing the web -- I wasn't even listening to music or anything...
Apple needs to get on the ball with all of these Safari crashes or let someone else step in with a superior platform.
People still expect iPhones to be a computer, it is not.
1. iPhone has only 128MB RAM. Please check your activity monitor and see how much RAM it uses. (mine shows 77MB with appleinsider.com).
2. That's probably one big reason why Apple doesn't allow background processes. A couple of those and the whole RAM gets eaten up.
3. A lot of websites are huge messes these days. YouTube takes almost 80% of CPU on my P-M 1.3G. Even AppleInsider.com takes 15% of CPU of my 2G C2D when it is complete idle. Some Chinese websites take 60% of CPU when it is completely IDLE!
4. A third party web browser, which would only want to add features with no regard on hardware, RAM and battery, will only crash more, and guess what they are going to say? "It is Apple's fault, iPhone doesn't have enough RAM, not powerful enough etc".