Powerbooks are hardly even usable machines anymore. Get over it and try to lower your sense of entitlement.
They're as usable as ever before. They didn't suddenly slow down when Intel books came out.
Today I tried to persuade my wife to finally get rid of her 2005 PowerBook. She saw no reason to upgrade: the computer still meets her needs, with Leopard on it, as it did 3 years ago. Luckily, it doesn't suffer from the memory problem.
Powerbooks are hardly even usable machines anymore. Get over it and try to lower your sense of entitlement.
What is that supposed mean? My PBG4 still works great and does everything I need it to every day, and I do a lot of Photoshop work on it. Sure, I'd like a newer, faster machine, but I don't <i>need</i> one. What are you trying to do with yours, that makes it unusable?
The only problem I've had is that the upper memory slot likes to unseat the memory card if I carry it around a lot, leaving me with 1 gig of ram instead of 2. Happens every few months. Definitely not a reason to go out and buy a new computer.
I wonder if this is the issue I had with my TiBook 867MHz DVI. When I added a second DIMM, sleep mode became slightly less reliable. There would be subtle memory corruption upon waking from sleep, and the system would often crash shortly after.
The system always worked perfectly from initial bootup, and only experienced problems after sleeping. However, this happened regardless of what slot the DIMMs were in, and also happened with either DIMM alone.
It only happened when I first upgraded the RAM, almost as if the upgrade pushed the DIMM slots loose somehow. The laptop was already out of warranty by this point, though, so I just put up with not using sleep until I eventually replaced it with my current Macbook Pro, which has no problems.
Yup, same boat: have a G4 PowerBook, out of warranty, can only have one stick of 1gb ram installed, second slot doesn't recognize the second stick. Called Apple, they said that because my PB falls outside the recall range, I'm S.O.L. Really pissed me off at the time.
I didn't bother getting it fixed because it would have cost my left arm to replace the logic board. So I've been stuck with 1gb ever since.
AAPL should just do the right thing and extend their Memory Slot Repair Extension Program to all G4 PowerBook owners.
and your proof that Apple 'knowingly' did anything is? do you have some internal company memo where they confess this information.
to say that they knew they were shipping bad machines and hoped no one figured it out until all warranties were over is a bit like saying that the iphone team researched every way of unlocking the phones and made sure that their software updates 100% bricked all methods -- rather than the more likely truth which is that they didn't bother making sure the updates didn't brick tampered phones.
If you are going to quote my posts at least post enough of it to put it into context...
Quote:
knowingly shipping faulty HW [...] doesn't sound like a a reasonable conclusion to me.
If these PBs and G5s were in fact among the generations made in China, Apple might want to reconsider when thinking about the long term cost in quality build, class action lawsuits, and replacement programs.
I found this news very interesting. I'd certainly be interested in such a suit, although I am skeptical of ever getting anything worthwhile out of it from past experience with these class action lawsuits. It doesn't seem like the average consumer ever benefits much from them. Maybe in forcing some changes in how the companies do business, but even that is often debatable.
My PBG4 was purchased in Oct 05. I seem to recall discovering this problem about a year and a half later, summer of 07 or so. Ended up buying a new (refurbished) MBP Dec 07. The PBG4 would have been just fine if not for the RAM problem which made it virtually unusable for me. I still have it and have tried a few times to see if there was anything I could do to fix it - there wasn't. It would boot up with the 1.5 GB RAM and seem to be fine at first, but after a random period of time it would suddenly freeze and I'd have to power it off and back on again. It ran fine with just the 1 GB DIMM but 1 GB was not enough RAM. 1.5 was, but I couldn't run with any more than 1, so had to give up and buy a new machine (taking the $500 or so it would have cost me to repair the PBG4 out of my pocket).
Been using Macs since early 90s, had a PBG3 at one point and got a great 7 years or so out of it. I was very disappointed to only get two years or so out of the PBG4. Especially to find out that this problem was known by Apple to be widespread yet they greatly restricted which machines were covered for the repair.
Of course, despite that experience I did buy another Mac, the MBP. And had problems with that too. First the battery issue, which the local Apple Store was very nice to replace. Then the keyboard problem, which I'm still working through - knock on wood, it's been okay for a week or two now. Not happy about this either, but will I still buy a Mac next time - almost definitely. What can you do. I still like it better than anything else out there.
I hope this suit does somehow force Apple to repair the machines that were outside the scope of the original program - but again I'm not optimistic.
They are quite usable. Even with Leopard installed.
Well mine still works fine, but usable? not so much.
I guess it's subjective of course, but my 12" with everything maxed out still takes way too long to boot with Tiger or Leopard, and even starting Pages is a long painful experience when you are used to using a faster machine. I guess if I had nothing to compare it to it would be okay, but once you use an iMac or Air or newer Pro or Mac Pro it's just a pain to go back to the PowerBook.
Entitlement? Has entitlement been redefined to expecting a high end product to be designed right, built right and work as advertised?
Entitlement as in it's a four year old, two or three generation old product.
I just don't personally think or would ever expect myself to have a company fix such an old obsolete piece of equipment. Not everything is fair, sometimes things break and it's not always someone's fault nor their responsibility to fix it.
A lawsuit on something like this given the circumstances is way beyond the pale IMO. Thus my previous comment.
For most of us with this problem, it didn't manifest itself until after the warranty period was expired. In my case, my first motherboard was replaced due to this problem after my warranty expired. The one they replaced it with did the same thing over a year later. Now I'm stuck with only one working memory slot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
Why didn't these people figure out the memory slot problem during the initial one-year warranty period?
Actually, this problem has nothing to do with MBP's!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah
I had a similar situation with a colleagues MacBook Pro which he purchased directly from Apple.
I knew something was up when it had a single 1GB DIMM in it, as opposed to the two 512GB DIMMs in every other similar MacBook Pro. Sure enough, as soon as I installed any other DIMM in the second slot if started to KP. I must have tried four or five different DIMMs in there, and they all caused the same problems.
I'm a bit suspicious that it left the factory with a single 1GB DIMM installed...
Entitlement as in it's a four year old, two or three generation old product.
I just don't personally think or would ever expect myself to have a company fix such an old obsolete piece of equipment. Not everything is fair, sometimes things break and it's not always someone's fault nor their responsibility to fix it.
A lawsuit on something like this given the circumstances is way beyond the pale IMO. Thus my previous comment.
Perhaps you should keep in mind that not everyone can afford to go out and get a new laptop every time Apple drops one! That's every 6 months in case you hadn't been counting. For those who can't, it is a huge expense when they do get one and there is absolutely no reason they should not be able to expect it to last 4,5,etc years! Obsolete? Hardly! Not as fast as the newest ones, obviously. I guarantee if you were one of the thousands stuck with a defective PB you'd be screaming the loudest, as you are now. The problem is not one of trying to do too much with outdated equipment, the problem is the equipment failing to do it's minimum function and on a mass scale!
For most of us with this problem, it didn't manifest itself until after the warranty period was expired. In my case, my first motherboard was replaced due to this problem after my warranty expired. The one they replaced it with did the same thing over a year later. Now I'm stuck with only one working memory slot.
On a machine that is obsolete and far past its end of life. The hard drive died on my old PB G4. Should I sue for that?
Machines, especially old machines, tend to break down. It sounds as if you old machine has seen better days and you should either replace it or pay to have it restored.
The problem started on mine about a year and a half after purchase. Warranty lasted one year. It wasn't covered under the limited Apple repair program either. Still don't know why.
A year and a half old laptop is not an obsolete machine. And this problem is widespread. if it wasn't, we would not even be discussing this.
If one person has a problem on a machine that's six months out of warranty, that's the way it goes. If many people have the problem, then there's something more going on.
Powerbooks are hardly even usable machines anymore. Get over it and try to lower your sense of entitlement.
I think I see a pattern here.
Over on the other recent thread about problems with the glass track pad - in reply to someone who said they had a problem with the hinge not holding and the lid shutting because they used their Macbook in bed - you said that's Ok, you only have a problem if you are slouching, making it sound like the problem is the users fault.
Here again, you are saying it is really the users fault for not buying a new machine every time Apple brings one out.
How big is your ego that you think it appropriate to dictate to others that their expectations of what is satisfactory performance from expensive, premium priced products, should be no greater than your narrow and limited standards?
Kindly brought to you from an 8 year old Powerbook G4 Ti 500mhz.
Comments
Let me be the first to say ... WAH!
Powerbooks are hardly even usable machines anymore. Get over it and try to lower your sense of entitlement.
They're as usable as ever before. They didn't suddenly slow down when Intel books came out.
Today I tried to persuade my wife to finally get rid of her 2005 PowerBook. She saw no reason to upgrade: the computer still meets her needs, with Leopard on it, as it did 3 years ago. Luckily, it doesn't suffer from the memory problem.
Let me be the first to say ... WAH!
Powerbooks are hardly even usable machines anymore. Get over it and try to lower your sense of entitlement.
What is that supposed mean? My PBG4 still works great and does everything I need it to every day, and I do a lot of Photoshop work on it. Sure, I'd like a newer, faster machine, but I don't <i>need</i> one. What are you trying to do with yours, that makes it unusable?
The only problem I've had is that the upper memory slot likes to unseat the memory card if I carry it around a lot, leaving me with 1 gig of ram instead of 2. Happens every few months. Definitely not a reason to go out and buy a new computer.
The system always worked perfectly from initial bootup, and only experienced problems after sleeping. However, this happened regardless of what slot the DIMMs were in, and also happened with either DIMM alone.
It only happened when I first upgraded the RAM, almost as if the upgrade pushed the DIMM slots loose somehow. The laptop was already out of warranty by this point, though, so I just put up with not using sleep until I eventually replaced it with my current Macbook Pro, which has no problems.
I didn't bother getting it fixed because it would have cost my left arm to replace the logic board. So I've been stuck with 1gb ever since.
AAPL should just do the right thing and extend their Memory Slot Repair Extension Program to all G4 PowerBook owners.
and your proof that Apple 'knowingly' did anything is? do you have some internal company memo where they confess this information.
to say that they knew they were shipping bad machines and hoped no one figured it out until all warranties were over is a bit like saying that the iphone team researched every way of unlocking the phones and made sure that their software updates 100% bricked all methods -- rather than the more likely truth which is that they didn't bother making sure the updates didn't brick tampered phones.
If you are going to quote my posts at least post enough of it to put it into context...
knowingly shipping faulty HW [...] doesn't sound like a a reasonable conclusion to me.
http://forums.macworld.com/message/674935
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....sageID=8354081
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....sageID=7150914
If these PBs and G5s were in fact among the generations made in China, Apple might want to reconsider when thinking about the long term cost in quality build, class action lawsuits, and replacement programs.
My PBG4 was purchased in Oct 05. I seem to recall discovering this problem about a year and a half later, summer of 07 or so. Ended up buying a new (refurbished) MBP Dec 07. The PBG4 would have been just fine if not for the RAM problem which made it virtually unusable for me. I still have it and have tried a few times to see if there was anything I could do to fix it - there wasn't. It would boot up with the 1.5 GB RAM and seem to be fine at first, but after a random period of time it would suddenly freeze and I'd have to power it off and back on again. It ran fine with just the 1 GB DIMM but 1 GB was not enough RAM. 1.5 was, but I couldn't run with any more than 1, so had to give up and buy a new machine (taking the $500 or so it would have cost me to repair the PBG4 out of my pocket).
Been using Macs since early 90s, had a PBG3 at one point and got a great 7 years or so out of it. I was very disappointed to only get two years or so out of the PBG4. Especially to find out that this problem was known by Apple to be widespread yet they greatly restricted which machines were covered for the repair.
Of course, despite that experience I did buy another Mac, the MBP. And had problems with that too. First the battery issue, which the local Apple Store was very nice to replace. Then the keyboard problem, which I'm still working through - knock on wood, it's been okay for a week or two now. Not happy about this either, but will I still buy a Mac next time - almost definitely. What can you do. I still like it better than anything else out there.
I hope this suit does somehow force Apple to repair the machines that were outside the scope of the original program - but again I'm not optimistic.
Let me be the first to say ... WAH!
Powerbooks are hardly even usable machines anymore. Get over it and try to lower your sense of entitlement.
Entitlement? Has entitlement been redefined to expecting a high end product to be designed right, built right and work as advertised?
They are quite usable. Even with Leopard installed.
Well mine still works fine, but usable? not so much.
I guess it's subjective of course, but my 12" with everything maxed out still takes way too long to boot with Tiger or Leopard, and even starting Pages is a long painful experience when you are used to using a faster machine. I guess if I had nothing to compare it to it would be okay, but once you use an iMac or Air or newer Pro or Mac Pro it's just a pain to go back to the PowerBook.
Entitlement? Has entitlement been redefined to expecting a high end product to be designed right, built right and work as advertised?
Entitlement as in it's a four year old, two or three generation old product.
I just don't personally think or would ever expect myself to have a company fix such an old obsolete piece of equipment. Not everything is fair, sometimes things break and it's not always someone's fault nor their responsibility to fix it.
A lawsuit on something like this given the circumstances is way beyond the pale IMO. Thus my previous comment.
I really hope they all attract Hurley-esque luck, and have that money bring equally hideous fortune to them.
On second thoughts, I just hope they lose the case. Heheheh....
Jimzip
Why didn't these people figure out the memory slot problem during the initial one-year warranty period?
I had a similar situation with a colleagues MacBook Pro which he purchased directly from Apple.
I knew something was up when it had a single 1GB DIMM in it, as opposed to the two 512GB DIMMs in every other similar MacBook Pro. Sure enough, as soon as I installed any other DIMM in the second slot if started to KP. I must have tried four or five different DIMMs in there, and they all caused the same problems.
I'm a bit suspicious that it left the factory with a single 1GB DIMM installed...
Entitlement as in it's a four year old, two or three generation old product.
I just don't personally think or would ever expect myself to have a company fix such an old obsolete piece of equipment. Not everything is fair, sometimes things break and it's not always someone's fault nor their responsibility to fix it.
A lawsuit on something like this given the circumstances is way beyond the pale IMO. Thus my previous comment.
Perhaps you should keep in mind that not everyone can afford to go out and get a new laptop every time Apple drops one! That's every 6 months in case you hadn't been counting. For those who can't, it is a huge expense when they do get one and there is absolutely no reason they should not be able to expect it to last 4,5,etc years! Obsolete? Hardly! Not as fast as the newest ones, obviously. I guarantee if you were one of the thousands stuck with a defective PB you'd be screaming the loudest, as you are now. The problem is not one of trying to do too much with outdated equipment, the problem is the equipment failing to do it's minimum function and on a mass scale!
For most of us with this problem, it didn't manifest itself until after the warranty period was expired. In my case, my first motherboard was replaced due to this problem after my warranty expired. The one they replaced it with did the same thing over a year later. Now I'm stuck with only one working memory slot.
On a machine that is obsolete and far past its end of life. The hard drive died on my old PB G4. Should I sue for that?
Machines, especially old machines, tend to break down. It sounds as if you old machine has seen better days and you should either replace it or pay to have it restored.
A year and a half old laptop is not an obsolete machine. And this problem is widespread. if it wasn't, we would not even be discussing this.
If one person has a problem on a machine that's six months out of warranty, that's the way it goes. If many people have the problem, then there's something more going on.
Actually, this problem has nothing to do with MBP's!
Actually, I know that.
I'm just pointing out that I witnessed a similar problem with a MBP!
Let me be the first to say ... WAH!
Powerbooks are hardly even usable machines anymore. Get over it and try to lower your sense of entitlement.
I think I see a pattern here.
Over on the other recent thread about problems with the glass track pad - in reply to someone who said they had a problem with the hinge not holding and the lid shutting because they used their Macbook in bed - you said that's Ok, you only have a problem if you are slouching, making it sound like the problem is the users fault.
Here again, you are saying it is really the users fault for not buying a new machine every time Apple brings one out.
How big is your ego that you think it appropriate to dictate to others that their expectations of what is satisfactory performance from expensive, premium priced products, should be no greater than your narrow and limited standards?
Kindly brought to you from an 8 year old Powerbook G4 Ti 500mhz.
My 1998 Performa is acting funny. I'm gonna sue!
Haha! Memories indeed.