Apple could also use the mini for a larger corporate strategy. The mini's diminutive size and price would appeal to businesses considering swapping out their old PCs. No optical drive works in this context too. Remote administration features, Exchange support, virtualization, ect. This might be a good time for them to take a more serious stab at that market since Vista is floundering and Windows 7 is still years away.
Another selling point of the mini is that is a very energy efficient computer. It uses a lot less power than a typical desktop machine.
It's sounding more and more like Apple *intended* to update the Mini (and perhaps the iMac as well), but that "something happened."
This I would tend to believe. Even by Apple's standards Mini has not be updated on the correct schedule.
Quote:
Add in the fact that they barely got the MacBook and MacBook Pro out the door recently (with some members of the group missing in action no less), and it almost looks like you could use the word "struggling" to describe their performance of late.
See I don't see it like this, when you are on the bleeding edge you get cut, it is a given. The new Mac Books represent a very significant stride forward in a number of areas, it takes time to get all your ducks in a row.
As for Mini I certainly don't know what happened there. However I can make a good guess that they are looking for similar if not more significant strides for that platform. The longer we wait the greater the chance that the new Mini will be very impressive. Of course that doesn't mean Apple won't pull a boner and give us a half baked concept machine, it just means that they have had plenty of time to get it right.
Quote:
Oh well, at least we won't have to see that "beleaguered" word ever again.
YOu must be young as you don't seem to understand the current economic conditions. Apple is in a good position but they are not invulnerable. I would expect to see many major corporations disappear in the near future. Worst yet if the government continues to bail out failed corporations like GM and such all of us could be in a world of hurt. Corporations are like Animals with cancer, sooner or later they come down with the disease and the owners are no longer successful in cutting the growths away. At this point the corporation must die or end up becoming a hole in the ground that money is burnt in.
So if you want to have the ability to keep Apple afloat and buy its hardware in the future you better start speaking up now when talk about bailing out XYZ company comes up. Other wise you will be spending years pay for some lazy ass United Auto Workers paycheck. If you don't think this is possible you damn well better wake up, because frankly I want an environment where I know Apple can succeed. In part that means that each of us has the money to buy the Apple goody of his choice.
Oh boy, the xMac rumours are going to come hard and fast between now and MacWorld SF Jan 2009. Bring on the mockups! And so on... Oh, the insanity...
I'm fairly sure that most xMac fans know that Apple will never make one.
What I'd like to know is how big the potential market really is. If there are only a few of us and most already buy Macs then Steve Jobs is right to ignore us. If, however, there are tens of thousands and most of them aren't contributing a penny to Apple, then it's foolish of them to ignore us.
I think it would be very interesting if someone took a poll of all the people who say they want an xMac. Ask them what computer they currently use, whether they bought it new or used and why they don't buy a model that Apple currently makes.
I'll start:
I currently have a 2.7GHz G5 tower and my kids have a Quicksilver G4 tower that already had CPU and video upgrades when I bought it.
I purchased both of them used, but would prefer not to take my chances with used gear.
They are both connected to relatively expensive LCD displays I purchased brand new.
I won't buy a mini because they're gutless and overpriced given how incredibly outdated they are.
I won't buy a notebook of any kind because I don't need the mobility. An iPhone provides everything I could possibly want when I'm away from my desktop computers.
I won't buy an iMac because it's a terrible waste to have to replace the display every time you upgrade. My daughter is using my old LCD. It's already been used with 5 different computers and is still going strong.
Speaking of the display, I don't want Steve Jobs telling me which one to use.
I won't buy an iMac because putting a decent size hard drive inside requires major surgery.
I won't buy a Mac Pro because I quite simply don't have that kind of money for a home computer.
I'm fairly sure that most xMac fans know that Apple will never make one.
What I'd like to know is how big the potential market really is. If there are only a few of us and most already buy Macs then Steve Jobs is right to ignore us. If, however, there are tens of thousands and most of them aren't contributing a penny to Apple, then it's foolish of them to ignore us.
I think it would be very interesting if someone took a poll of all the people who say they want an xMac. Ask them what computer they currently use, whether they bought it new or used and why they don't buy a model that Apple currently makes.
I'm not a potential buyer of an xMac, but I might be down the road. In addition to your poll of who is a potential xMac customer, I'm curious what they think an xMac would be? I've seen people say they basically want all the slots, bays, and flexibility of the MacPro, in case half the size for half the price. Obviously, that won't happen. We have to be reasonable.
Basically, what combination of speed, expandabiltiy, and upgradabilty are we looking for in an xMac? Video card upgradability and/or dual monitor support is the first obvious need, so one PCI slot is probably a must. Or if the included video card is in a slot and can be replaced, will that work? What else do you need a PCI slot for? The built-in HD must be 3.5" and easily upgradable (unlike the mini). Do we need a free HD bay, or is external storage sufficient (maybe add an eSATA port)? What class of processor are we expecting?
My thoughts:
- A fast Core2Duo processor (maybe an option for 2 C2D CPUs, but unlikely)
- The new NVIDIA chipset with it's integrated graphics, I know that sounds kinda wimpy but?
- 1 PCI slot so you can add whatever other graphics card you want and upgrade it later
- 3.5" HD with space for a 2nd drive
- SuperDrive (Blu-ray option?)
- 4 RAM slots
- USB, Firewire 800 (3200?), eSATA (?), wireless N (the mini is still stuck on G), Gigibit Ethernet, analog/digital audio in/out
A few years ago with Apple's tiny marketshare, it made sense to limit the number of models they made to streamline inventory and reduce R&D and production costs. But I would think that Apple's marketshare now is big enough to support expanding the lineup.
For me personally today, give me a mini with a 3.5" drive, the MB's motherboard (plus Firewire), and 802.11n, and I'd buy one. My main computer is a MBP, and even if Apple offered an xMac that wouldn't change (today).
I'm not a potential buyer of an xMac, but I might be down the road. In addition to your poll of who is a potential xMac customer, I'm curious what they think an xMac would be? I've seen people say they basically want all the slots, bays, and flexibility of the MacPro, in case half the size for half the price. Obviously, that won't happen. We have to be reasonable.
To me, it's what it used to be a $1299-1699 single CPU PowerMac/MacPro. The Xeon MacPro adds dual 2.5ghz in place of the single 2.8ghz and replaces the consumer level card with a standard FireGL or Quadro. A new single CPU MacPro with core CPUs and a high end X-series motherboard and consumer grade graphics is slotted into the place of the old PowerMac. Both levels would have the same BTO options for video cards.
I'm fairly sure that most xMac fans know that Apple will never make one. What I'd like to know is how big the potential market really is. If there are only a few of us and most already buy Macs then Steve Jobs is right to ignore us. If, however, there are tens of thousands and most of them aren't contributing a penny to Apple, then it's foolish of them to ignore us. I think it would be very interesting if someone took a poll of all the people who say they want an xMac. Ask them what computer they currently use, whether they bought it new or used and why they don't buy a model that Apple currently makes.
I'm sure Apple has asked many a focus group these same questions. Unfortunately, I think Apple makes more money exactly by differentiating their product line in the precise way that makes choosing between an under-powered MacMini, a like-it-or-not, "all-in-one" iMac, or an uber-expensive MacPro, so damned frustrating. I finally had to just give in, so I recently bought a soon-to-be-refreshed, 3.06GHz 24" iMac, and paid a price a little more than I could've paid for just about the fastest PC on earth. I really wanted a MacPro tower, but couldn't really justify the expense (I'll wait until Nehalem anyway, now that I know what THAT is). But I don't see Apple ever marketing a low-line "business machine," regardless of its potential market size. I mean, seriously, would anyone ever realistically expect to see an "xMac" mini-tower selling at your local Best Buy or Office Depot for $500 to $700? I mean like, sitting right next to the HP Slimline selling for $499 (but, of course, the HP comes with 4GB of RAM and a bigger HD).
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmedia1
Another selling point of the mini is that is a very energy efficient computer. It uses a lot less power than a typical desktop machine.
Yup. That's another reason I'm considering minis for "utility-use" computers. My minis will basically be powered on, 24/7 (minis consume 110 Watts at 120V).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Market share isn't the only measure of a company. Have you seen Apple's 10K reports yet?
Right. With Apple, it isn't about share of market (well, except for "digital media players" and digital music services) . . . it's about MARGIN!
I don't agree. What's the issue of having to add a USB hub? I would've preferred one of each. Anyway off-topic
I use 2 USB pretty constantly. One for my TM HDD and one for my iPhone, while occasionally syncing/charging my iPod Shuffle. I don't want to carry a hub and share the bus. I don't expect everyone to like that FW lost to USB, but you deny that USB is the ubiquitous standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 460FILMS
Right. With Apple, it isn't about share of market (well, except for "digital media players" and digital music services) . . . it's about MARGIN!
I'm sure the success of the iPod/iTunes surprised even Jobs.
I know a lot of people will opt for the XBox at half the price and I would too but some people will be looking at the PS3 because it's what their kids want. An Nvidia-based Mini could be seen as a learning and gaming machine so IMO is more worth the money than the PS3. The PS3 does double as a Blu-Ray player but the Mini could have been an alternative.
That would kill the AppleTV sales. Replacing a $200 device designed as a simple, dedicated media extender with a $600 device that is requires much more effort to use as a media extender.
AppleTV is not $200, not in the US, and especially not in any other country
Comments
Apple could also use the mini for a larger corporate strategy. The mini's diminutive size and price would appeal to businesses considering swapping out their old PCs. No optical drive works in this context too. Remote administration features, Exchange support, virtualization, ect. This might be a good time for them to take a more serious stab at that market since Vista is floundering and Windows 7 is still years away.
Another selling point of the mini is that is a very energy efficient computer. It uses a lot less power than a typical desktop machine.
Your lack of faith disturbs me.
Jimzip
Faith is what got us into this recession.
Faith is what got us into this recession.
Are we supposed to know what that means?
It's sounding more and more like Apple *intended* to update the Mini (and perhaps the iMac as well), but that "something happened."
This I would tend to believe. Even by Apple's standards Mini has not be updated on the correct schedule.
Add in the fact that they barely got the MacBook and MacBook Pro out the door recently (with some members of the group missing in action no less), and it almost looks like you could use the word "struggling" to describe their performance of late.
See I don't see it like this, when you are on the bleeding edge you get cut, it is a given. The new Mac Books represent a very significant stride forward in a number of areas, it takes time to get all your ducks in a row.
As for Mini I certainly don't know what happened there. However I can make a good guess that they are looking for similar if not more significant strides for that platform. The longer we wait the greater the chance that the new Mini will be very impressive. Of course that doesn't mean Apple won't pull a boner and give us a half baked concept machine, it just means that they have had plenty of time to get it right.
Oh well, at least we won't have to see that "beleaguered" word ever again.
YOu must be young as you don't seem to understand the current economic conditions. Apple is in a good position but they are not invulnerable. I would expect to see many major corporations disappear in the near future. Worst yet if the government continues to bail out failed corporations like GM and such all of us could be in a world of hurt. Corporations are like Animals with cancer, sooner or later they come down with the disease and the owners are no longer successful in cutting the growths away. At this point the corporation must die or end up becoming a hole in the ground that money is burnt in.
So if you want to have the ability to keep Apple afloat and buy its hardware in the future you better start speaking up now when talk about bailing out XYZ company comes up. Other wise you will be spending years pay for some lazy ass United Auto Workers paycheck. If you don't think this is possible you damn well better wake up, because frankly I want an environment where I know Apple can succeed. In part that means that each of us has the money to buy the Apple goody of his choice.
Dave
Dave
Faith is what got us into this recession.
Faith is a virtue and virtue had nothing to do with getting us where we are.
Oh boy, the xMac rumours are going to come hard and fast between now and MacWorld SF Jan 2009. Bring on the mockups! And so on...
I'm fairly sure that most xMac fans know that Apple will never make one.
What I'd like to know is how big the potential market really is. If there are only a few of us and most already buy Macs then Steve Jobs is right to ignore us. If, however, there are tens of thousands and most of them aren't contributing a penny to Apple, then it's foolish of them to ignore us.
I think it would be very interesting if someone took a poll of all the people who say they want an xMac. Ask them what computer they currently use, whether they bought it new or used and why they don't buy a model that Apple currently makes.
I'll start:
I currently have a 2.7GHz G5 tower and my kids have a Quicksilver G4 tower that already had CPU and video upgrades when I bought it.
I purchased both of them used, but would prefer not to take my chances with used gear.
They are both connected to relatively expensive LCD displays I purchased brand new.
I won't buy a mini because they're gutless and overpriced given how incredibly outdated they are.
I won't buy a notebook of any kind because I don't need the mobility. An iPhone provides everything I could possibly want when I'm away from my desktop computers.
I won't buy an iMac because it's a terrible waste to have to replace the display every time you upgrade. My daughter is using my old LCD. It's already been used with 5 different computers and is still going strong.
Speaking of the display, I don't want Steve Jobs telling me which one to use.
I won't buy an iMac because putting a decent size hard drive inside requires major surgery.
I won't buy a Mac Pro because I quite simply don't have that kind of money for a home computer.
Faith is what got us into this recession.
Hope and hard work is what will get us out.
I'm fairly sure that most xMac fans know that Apple will never make one.
What I'd like to know is how big the potential market really is. If there are only a few of us and most already buy Macs then Steve Jobs is right to ignore us. If, however, there are tens of thousands and most of them aren't contributing a penny to Apple, then it's foolish of them to ignore us.
I think it would be very interesting if someone took a poll of all the people who say they want an xMac. Ask them what computer they currently use, whether they bought it new or used and why they don't buy a model that Apple currently makes.
I'm not a potential buyer of an xMac, but I might be down the road. In addition to your poll of who is a potential xMac customer, I'm curious what they think an xMac would be? I've seen people say they basically want all the slots, bays, and flexibility of the MacPro, in case half the size for half the price. Obviously, that won't happen. We have to be reasonable.
Basically, what combination of speed, expandabiltiy, and upgradabilty are we looking for in an xMac? Video card upgradability and/or dual monitor support is the first obvious need, so one PCI slot is probably a must. Or if the included video card is in a slot and can be replaced, will that work? What else do you need a PCI slot for? The built-in HD must be 3.5" and easily upgradable (unlike the mini). Do we need a free HD bay, or is external storage sufficient (maybe add an eSATA port)? What class of processor are we expecting?
My thoughts:
- A fast Core2Duo processor (maybe an option for 2 C2D CPUs, but unlikely)
- The new NVIDIA chipset with it's integrated graphics, I know that sounds kinda wimpy but?
- 1 PCI slot so you can add whatever other graphics card you want and upgrade it later
- 3.5" HD with space for a 2nd drive
- SuperDrive (Blu-ray option?)
- 4 RAM slots
- USB, Firewire 800 (3200?), eSATA (?), wireless N (the mini is still stuck on G), Gigibit Ethernet, analog/digital audio in/out
A few years ago with Apple's tiny marketshare, it made sense to limit the number of models they made to streamline inventory and reduce R&D and production costs. But I would think that Apple's marketshare now is big enough to support expanding the lineup.
For me personally today, give me a mini with a 3.5" drive, the MB's motherboard (plus Firewire), and 802.11n, and I'd buy one. My main computer is a MBP, and even if Apple offered an xMac that wouldn't change (today).
"You've had the Macintosh for 24 years, and the best you could do is 8% marketshare?"
Market share isn't the only measure of a company. Have you seen Apple's 10K reports yet?
Basically, what combination of speed, expandabiltiy, and upgradabilty are we looking for in an xMac?
My thoughts:
- A fast Core2Duo processor (maybe an option for 2 C2D CPUs, but unlikely)
- The new NVIDIA chipset with it's integrated graphics, I know that sounds kinda wimpy but?
- 1 PCI slot so you can add whatever other graphics card you want and upgrade it later
- 3.5" HD with space for a 2nd drive
- SuperDrive (Blu-ray option?)
- 4 RAM slots
- USB, Firewire 800 (3200?), eSATA (?), wireless N (the mini is still stuck on G), Gigibit Ethernet, analog/digital audio in/out
- Small case, the size of a game console or blade server
- I'd make that a Core2Quad processor.
- I'd put the video in a PCIe slot to ramp up the production volume of Mac compatible cards.
- 1 empty PCIe slot - each user will have her own needs: eSATA, legacy ports, something new
- Two 3.5" bays for HDs - either for segregated storage or internal Time Machine.
- One SuperDrive
- two DDR3 slots is enough if you allow the machines to use 8GB (unlike the MBP)
- Ports as above.
- I'd like to see eSATA, but it's not that important if there are two internal bays and an empty PCIe slot.
I'm not a potential buyer of an xMac, but I might be down the road. In addition to your poll of who is a potential xMac customer, I'm curious what they think an xMac would be? I've seen people say they basically want all the slots, bays, and flexibility of the MacPro, in case half the size for half the price. Obviously, that won't happen. We have to be reasonable.
To me, it's what it used to be a $1299-1699 single CPU PowerMac/MacPro. The Xeon MacPro adds dual 2.5ghz in place of the single 2.8ghz and replaces the consumer level card with a standard FireGL or Quadro. A new single CPU MacPro with core CPUs and a high end X-series motherboard and consumer grade graphics is slotted into the place of the old PowerMac. Both levels would have the same BTO options for video cards.
- Small case, the size of a game console or blade server
- I'd make that a Core2Quad processor.
- I'd put the video in a PCIe slot to ramp up the production volume of Mac compatible cards.
- 1 empty PCIe slot - each user will have her own needs: eSATA, legacy ports, something new
- Two 3.5" bays for HDs - either for segregated storage or internal Time Machine.
- One SuperDrive
- two DDR3 slots is enough if you allow the machines to use 8GB (unlike the MBP)
- Ports as above.
- I'd like to see eSATA, but it's not that important if there are two internal bays and an empty PCIe slot.
replace Core2Quad with core i7
make it 4 or 6 ram slots core i7 has 3 ram channels The dual cpu system can have 6 slots or more per cpu.
The Mini is a perfect Christmas gift because it costs about the same as a games console.
My God what games consoles have you been buying? If it did cost the same as a games console I'd have bought one by now.
It would if it meant removing the 2nd USB port to include it.
I don't agree. What's the issue of having to add a USB hub? I would've preferred one of each. Anyway off-topic
I'm fairly sure that most xMac fans know that Apple will never make one. What I'd like to know is how big the potential market really is. If there are only a few of us and most already buy Macs then Steve Jobs is right to ignore us. If, however, there are tens of thousands and most of them aren't contributing a penny to Apple, then it's foolish of them to ignore us. I think it would be very interesting if someone took a poll of all the people who say they want an xMac. Ask them what computer they currently use, whether they bought it new or used and why they don't buy a model that Apple currently makes.
I'm sure Apple has asked many a focus group these same questions. Unfortunately, I think Apple makes more money exactly by differentiating their product line in the precise way that makes choosing between an under-powered MacMini, a like-it-or-not, "all-in-one" iMac, or an uber-expensive MacPro, so damned frustrating. I finally had to just give in, so I recently bought a soon-to-be-refreshed, 3.06GHz 24" iMac, and paid a price a little more than I could've paid for just about the fastest PC on earth. I really wanted a MacPro tower, but couldn't really justify the expense (I'll wait until Nehalem anyway, now that I know what THAT is). But I don't see Apple ever marketing a low-line "business machine," regardless of its potential market size. I mean, seriously, would anyone ever realistically expect to see an "xMac" mini-tower selling at your local Best Buy or Office Depot for $500 to $700? I mean like, sitting right next to the HP Slimline selling for $499 (but, of course, the HP comes with 4GB of RAM and a bigger HD).
Another selling point of the mini is that is a very energy efficient computer. It uses a lot less power than a typical desktop machine.
Yup. That's another reason I'm considering minis for "utility-use" computers. My minis will basically be powered on, 24/7 (minis consume 110 Watts at 120V).
Market share isn't the only measure of a company. Have you seen Apple's 10K reports yet?
Right. With Apple, it isn't about share of market (well, except for "digital media players" and digital music services) . . . it's about MARGIN!
I don't agree. What's the issue of having to add a USB hub? I would've preferred one of each. Anyway off-topic
I use 2 USB pretty constantly. One for my TM HDD and one for my iPhone, while occasionally syncing/charging my iPod Shuffle. I don't want to carry a hub and share the bus. I don't expect everyone to like that FW lost to USB, but you deny that USB is the ubiquitous standard.
Right. With Apple, it isn't about share of market (well, except for "digital media players" and digital music services) . . . it's about MARGIN!
I'm sure the success of the iPod/iTunes surprised even Jobs.
You won't see a f'n Nehalem processor in a Mac mini until Nehalem is phasing out of Mac Pros.
Apple: Either put out something respectable and not an oversized book or drop it already.
My God what games consoles have you been buying? If it did cost the same as a games console I'd have bought one by now.
http://www.game.co.uk/PS3/Hardware/H...-Console-60GB/
£349 - add a couple of games at £25 each and you get £399
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/hom...ni?mco=MTE3MTA
Base Mini = £399.
I know a lot of people will opt for the XBox at half the price and I would too but some people will be looking at the PS3 because it's what their kids want. An Nvidia-based Mini could be seen as a learning and gaming machine so IMO is more worth the money than the PS3. The PS3 does double as a Blu-Ray player but the Mini could have been an alternative.
That would kill the AppleTV sales. Replacing a $200 device designed as a simple, dedicated media extender with a $600 device that is requires much more effort to use as a media extender.
AppleTV is not $200, not in the US, and especially not in any other country
AppleTV is not $200, not in the US, and especially not in any other country
It's $229 so I wouldn't say that was far off.