You make it sound like undermining the rights of minorities is an inevitable consequence of Democracy in action.
C.
Not at all, look at slavery for example. It ended because the majority wanted it to end (and killed each other to do it I might add). Suffrage? same deal. Blacks can vote? Again, supported by the majority.
EDIT: Amendments can only be added to the US Constitution with a 2/3 majority - so, umm, yeah, it is about the majority... And Congress - needs a majority to pass, the Supreme Court - needs a majority. All ruling bodies that constitute our system are based on majorities. The President is the person who gets the majority of the Electoral College votes. Summary: majority, majority, majority, majority, majority...
it's not Barack's fault. I don't recall the Democrats telling people to vote yes on Prop 8, but the pro Prop 8 advocates spent a lot of time and money going to poor neighborhoods spreading lies about what voting no would mean. Many of which we've heard on this forum.
Note that Barack, being Democrat is less likely to get white voters than a Republican, yet he reportedly took 6% higher percentage of white voters than Clinton received. I think the age groups are the most telling of how people voted to ban gay marriage in 3 states.
it's not Barack's fault. I don't recall the Democrats telling people to vote yes on Prop 8, but the pro Prop 8 advocates spent a lot of time and money going to poor neighborhoods spreading lies about what voting no would mean. Many of which we've heard on this forum.
Note that Barack, being Democrat is less likely to get white voters than a Republican, yet he reportedly took 6% higher percentage of white voters than Clinton received. I think the age groups are the most telling of how people voted to ban gay marriage in 3 states.
"The outlier of the proposition was African Americans. Many are churchgoing; many had ministers tell them to vote. Indeed, Proposition 8 promoters worked closely with black churches across the state, encouraging ministers to deliver sermons in favor of the ban."
There were also a TON of people who didn't vote in this election that voted in 2004. In fact FEWER people voted in 2008 than in 2004.
EDIT: When you aim to mobilize a group of people that you know do not support same-sex marriage you know exactly what's going to happen. Also, why are you still maintaining they lied to them? Is it not possible to be opposed to it without being lied to? That's not very tolerant of others views. Like I told somebody earlier - just because I don't agree with you that doesn't mean I think you're stupid or you were lied to and I'd expect the same courtesy extended in the other direction.
Hmm, it would seem that despite my Hispanic Catholic friends assertion that Hispanic Catholics are less likely to accept same-sex marriage than perhaps others doesn't seem to be the case, however they are still far more likely to be catholic than others. Mainly, hispanics make up 12.5% of the population yet they account for 39% of all Catholics in the US.
Any chance we can get religious #'s from the polls? I'd be quite interested to see the numbers for No Religion, Catholic, Protestant (established, ie. Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, etc) and Evangelical. I'd bet that's really where you're going to see the cultural divide. As far as age - I wouldn't say that just because a certain age group is more accepting that means they will continue to be more accepting in the future. Ideals change with age, maybe not as much as political affiliation but they do change.
it's not Barack's fault. I don't recall the Democrats telling people to vote yes on Prop 8, but the pro Prop 8 advocates spent a lot of time and money going to poor neighborhoods spreading lies about what voting no would mean. Many of which we've heard on this forum.
Note that Barack, being Democrat is less likely to get white voters than a Republican, yet he reportedly took 6% higher percentage of white voters than Clinton received. I think the age groups are the most telling of how people voted to ban gay marriage in 3 states.
Obama is the one responsible for large numbers of the Black vote, therefore he is responsible for their yes vote on prop 8 as well. You can't have it both ways, if he hadn't encouraged their vote to begin with, they wouldn't have been there to vote for prop 8.
Obama didn't even campaign in California, much less mount any sort of opposition to prop 8. He knew had the state in the bag, so he didn't bother spending time there. Similarly, McCain didn't spend time there because he knew it would not be time well spent for his election.
GoldenLight: If you are not writing these insane screeds from a psychiatric care facility, please get some help very soon, because you are a danger to yourself and society.
webraider: if you couldn't have expressed that totally incoherent deranged babble any better yourself, you need to check into the skull ranch as well.
zinfella: I have already made it clear that you are the biggest fucking idiot I have ever encountered--you know absolutely nothing and yet you think you're a fount of knowledge. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were Sarah Palin! (And lay off the obnoxious smilies; it makes you look like an even greater goober than we know you are.)
Sarah Palin is the governor of Alaska, and she has an 80% approval rating among Alaskans. You just embarrass yourself when you try to make her look stupid. Lemme know when you get elected governor, moron.
Sarah Palin is the governor of Alaska, and she has an 80% approval rating among Alaskans. You just embarrass yourself when you try to make her look stupid. Lemme know when you get elected governor, moron.
Actually it's a little lower now but at one point it was even higher than 80%. Still, I doubt many Governors enjoy a 68% approval rating, let alone after they've been drug throug the mud for the past few months.
"Polls taken in 2007 early in her term showed her with a 93% and 89% popularity among all voters,[73] which led some media outlets to call her "the most popular governor in America."[65][73] A poll taken in late September 2008 after Palin was named to the national Republican ticket showed her popularity in Alaska at 68%.[74]"
Sarah Palin is the governor of Alaska, and she has an 80% approval rating among Alaskans. You just embarrass yourself when you try to make her look stupid. Lemme know when you get elected governor, moron.
48% of Alaskans also voted for convicted criminal Ted Stevens. Does that cast any light on the wisdom of the Alaskan electorate?
Hmm, it would seem that despite my Hispanic Catholic friends assertion that Hispanic Catholics are less likely to accept same-sex marriage than perhaps others, they are still far more likely to be catholic than others. Mainly, hispanics make up 12.5% of the population yet they account for 39% of all Catholics in the US.
Any chance we can get religious #'s from the polls? I'd be quite interested to see the numbers for No Religion, Catholic, Protestant (established, ie. Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, etc) and Evangelical. I'd bet that's really where you're going to see the cultural divide. As far as age - I wouldn't say that just because a certain age group is more accepting that means they are would be more accepting in the future. Ideals change with age, maybe not as much as political affiliation but they do change.
Some numbers that I heard on TV, but don't have reference to, said that young voters, under 30, voted overwhelmingly against prop 8. However, it's a fact that while those who are liberal while young, tend to get conservative as they age.
Here, hispanics played a large role in passing our own constitutional amendment against gay marriage. They're nearly all Catholics, and also very strong in family values. Those two items are very close to being redundant, in spite of Solipsism's attempt to spin it another way.
As far as individual denomination votes go, I don't know if that is available. Naturally all of this info is from exit polls. You an take that for what it's worth, considering that people will absolutely lie to a pollster.
48% of Alaskans also voted for convicted criminal Ted Stevens. Does that cast any light on the wisdom of the Alaskan electorate?
C.
That door swings both ways. Marion Barry, a black Democrat, was Mayor of Washington DC. He was convicted on drug charges, and was sent to prison. He was eventually re-elected to the Mayor's job. Now, what does that say about the black voters that put Barry back in office?
How many votes for Stevens were done using early ballots, cast before he was convicted?
Sarah Palin is the governor of Alaska, and she has an 80% approval rating among Alaskans. You just embarrass yourself when you try to make her look stupid. Lemme know when you get elected governor, moron.
Do you even realize what a fucking idiot it makes you sound like to defend that suppurating pustule, that malignantly ignorant, evil, batshit-crazy waste of skin? Eat shit and die, troll!
Do you even realize what a fucking idiot it makes you sound like to defend that suppurating pustule, that malignantly ignorant, evil, batshit-crazy waste of skin? Eat shit and die, troll!
See how fucking stupid it looks, brainiac?
Look, are there any moderators left on this thread?
This has NOTHING to do with Apple anymore, and it hasn't for a long time. Will someone PLEASE move this to AppleOutsider, where it clearly belongs?
Do you even realize what a fucking idiot it makes you sound like to defend that suppurating pustule, that malignantly ignorant, evil, batshit-crazy waste of skin? Eat shit and die, troll!
Look, are there any moderators left on this thread?
This has NOTHING to do with Apple anymore, and it hasn't for a long time. Will someone PLEASE move this to AppleOutsider, where it clearly belongs?
I agree. Disagreements and a few jabs here and there are fun, but that was nasty for the sake of nastiness. As Vicky Pollard would say, "Oh my God I so can't believe you just said that! You are well outta line!"
Comments
First, I think you meant pass, not fail.
Second...
It warn't the Latinos.
So, basically, it's still BO's fault. Nice...
You make it sound like undermining the rights of minorities is an inevitable consequence of Democracy in action.
C.
Not at all, look at slavery for example. It ended because the majority wanted it to end (and killed each other to do it I might add). Suffrage? same deal. Blacks can vote? Again, supported by the majority.
EDIT: Amendments can only be added to the US Constitution with a 2/3 majority - so, umm, yeah, it is about the majority... And Congress - needs a majority to pass, the Supreme Court - needs a majority. All ruling bodies that constitute our system are based on majorities. The President is the person who gets the majority of the Electoral College votes. Summary: majority, majority, majority, majority, majority...
So, basically, it's still BO's fault. Nice...
it's not Barack's fault. I don't recall the Democrats telling people to vote yes on Prop 8, but the pro Prop 8 advocates spent a lot of time and money going to poor neighborhoods spreading lies about what voting no would mean. Many of which we've heard on this forum.
Note that Barack, being Democrat is less likely to get white voters than a Republican, yet he reportedly took 6% higher percentage of white voters than Clinton received. I think the age groups are the most telling of how people voted to ban gay marriage in 3 states.
it's not Barack's fault. I don't recall the Democrats telling people to vote yes on Prop 8, but the pro Prop 8 advocates spent a lot of time and money going to poor neighborhoods spreading lies about what voting no would mean. Many of which we've heard on this forum.
Note that Barack, being Democrat is less likely to get white voters than a Republican, yet he reportedly took 6% higher percentage of white voters than Clinton received. I think the age groups are the most telling of how people voted to ban gay marriage in 3 states.
"The outlier of the proposition was African Americans. Many are churchgoing; many had ministers tell them to vote. Indeed, Proposition 8 promoters worked closely with black churches across the state, encouraging ministers to deliver sermons in favor of the ban."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27584685/
There were also a TON of people who didn't vote in this election that voted in 2004. In fact FEWER people voted in 2008 than in 2004.
EDIT: When you aim to mobilize a group of people that you know do not support same-sex marriage you know exactly what's going to happen. Also, why are you still maintaining they lied to them? Is it not possible to be opposed to it without being lied to? That's not very tolerant of others views. Like I told somebody earlier - just because I don't agree with you that doesn't mean I think you're stupid or you were lied to and I'd expect the same courtesy extended in the other direction.
http://www.usccb.org/hispanicaffairs/demo.shtml
Any chance we can get religious #'s from the polls? I'd be quite interested to see the numbers for No Religion, Catholic, Protestant (established, ie. Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, etc) and Evangelical. I'd bet that's really where you're going to see the cultural divide. As far as age - I wouldn't say that just because a certain age group is more accepting that means they will continue to be more accepting in the future. Ideals change with age, maybe not as much as political affiliation but they do change.
it's not Barack's fault. I don't recall the Democrats telling people to vote yes on Prop 8, but the pro Prop 8 advocates spent a lot of time and money going to poor neighborhoods spreading lies about what voting no would mean. Many of which we've heard on this forum.
Note that Barack, being Democrat is less likely to get white voters than a Republican, yet he reportedly took 6% higher percentage of white voters than Clinton received. I think the age groups are the most telling of how people voted to ban gay marriage in 3 states.
Obama is the one responsible for large numbers of the Black vote, therefore he is responsible for their yes vote on prop 8 as well. You can't have it both ways, if he hadn't encouraged their vote to begin with, they wouldn't have been there to vote for prop 8.
Obama didn't even campaign in California, much less mount any sort of opposition to prop 8. He knew had the state in the bag, so he didn't bother spending time there. Similarly, McCain didn't spend time there because he knew it would not be time well spent for his election.
GoldenLight: If you are not writing these insane screeds from a psychiatric care facility, please get some help very soon, because you are a danger to yourself and society.
webraider: if you couldn't have expressed that totally incoherent deranged babble any better yourself, you need to check into the skull ranch as well.
zinfella: I have already made it clear that you are the biggest fucking idiot I have ever encountered--you know absolutely nothing and yet you think you're a fount of knowledge. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were Sarah Palin! (And lay off the obnoxious smilies; it makes you look like an even greater goober than we know you are.)
Sarah Palin is the governor of Alaska, and she has an 80% approval rating among Alaskans. You just embarrass yourself when you try to make her look stupid. Lemme know when you get elected governor, moron.
Sarah Palin is the governor of Alaska, and she has an 80% approval rating among Alaskans. You just embarrass yourself when you try to make her look stupid. Lemme know when you get elected governor, moron.
Actually it's a little lower now but at one point it was even higher than 80%. Still, I doubt many Governors enjoy a 68% approval rating, let alone after they've been drug throug the mud for the past few months.
"Polls taken in 2007 early in her term showed her with a 93% and 89% popularity among all voters,[73] which led some media outlets to call her "the most popular governor in America."[65][73] A poll taken in late September 2008 after Palin was named to the national Republican ticket showed her popularity in Alaska at 68%.[74]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin
Sarah Palin is the governor of Alaska, and she has an 80% approval rating among Alaskans. You just embarrass yourself when you try to make her look stupid. Lemme know when you get elected governor, moron.
48% of Alaskans also voted for convicted criminal Ted Stevens. Does that cast any light on the wisdom of the Alaskan electorate?
C.
Hmm, it would seem that despite my Hispanic Catholic friends assertion that Hispanic Catholics are less likely to accept same-sex marriage than perhaps others, they are still far more likely to be catholic than others. Mainly, hispanics make up 12.5% of the population yet they account for 39% of all Catholics in the US.
http://www.usccb.org/hispanicaffairs/demo.shtml
Any chance we can get religious #'s from the polls? I'd be quite interested to see the numbers for No Religion, Catholic, Protestant (established, ie. Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, etc) and Evangelical. I'd bet that's really where you're going to see the cultural divide. As far as age - I wouldn't say that just because a certain age group is more accepting that means they are would be more accepting in the future. Ideals change with age, maybe not as much as political affiliation but they do change.
Some numbers that I heard on TV, but don't have reference to, said that young voters, under 30, voted overwhelmingly against prop 8. However, it's a fact that while those who are liberal while young, tend to get conservative as they age.
Here, hispanics played a large role in passing our own constitutional amendment against gay marriage. They're nearly all Catholics, and also very strong in family values. Those two items are very close to being redundant, in spite of Solipsism's attempt to spin it another way.
As far as individual denomination votes go, I don't know if that is available. Naturally all of this info is from exit polls. You an take that for what it's worth, considering that people will absolutely lie to a pollster.
48% of Alaskans also voted for convicted criminal Ted Stevens. Does that cast any light on the wisdom of the Alaskan electorate?
C.
That door swings both ways. Marion Barry, a black Democrat, was Mayor of Washington DC. He was convicted on drug charges, and was sent to prison. He was eventually re-elected to the Mayor's job. Now, what does that say about the black voters that put Barry back in office?
How many votes for Stevens were done using early ballots, cast before he was convicted?
48% of Alaskans also voted for convicted criminal Ted Stevens. Does that cast any light on the wisdom of the Alaskan electorate?
C.
Or maybe that just speaks to how crappy the other option was...
We've been voting for the lesser of two evils for, what, at least a dozen years now...
Or maybe that just speaks to how crappy the other option was...
We've been voting for the lesser of two evils for, what, at least a dozen years now...
Unfortunately true.
Sarah Palin is the governor of Alaska, and she has an 80% approval rating among Alaskans. You just embarrass yourself when you try to make her look stupid. Lemme know when you get elected governor, moron.
Do you even realize what a fucking idiot it makes you sound like to defend that suppurating pustule, that malignantly ignorant, evil, batshit-crazy waste of skin? Eat shit and die, troll!
See how fucking stupid it looks, brainiac?
Do you even realize what a fucking idiot it makes you sound like to defend that suppurating pustule, that malignantly ignorant, evil, batshit-crazy waste of skin? Eat shit and die, troll!
See how fucking stupid it looks, brainiac?
Look, are there any moderators left on this thread?
This has NOTHING to do with Apple anymore, and it hasn't for a long time. Will someone PLEASE move this to AppleOutsider, where it clearly belongs?
Do you even realize what a fucking idiot it makes you sound like to defend that suppurating pustule, that malignantly ignorant, evil, batshit-crazy waste of skin? Eat shit and die, troll!
See how fucking stupid it looks, brainiac?
Seek help, you're unhinged.
Look, are there any moderators left on this thread?
This has NOTHING to do with Apple anymore, and it hasn't for a long time. Will someone PLEASE move this to AppleOutsider, where it clearly belongs?
I agree. Disagreements and a few jabs here and there are fun, but that was nasty for the sake of nastiness. As Vicky Pollard would say, "Oh my God I so can't believe you just said that! You are well outta line!"
If moderate McCain hadn't been on the ticket there may have been four more states that the Hispanic vote could have swung to Obama.