Don't forget Display Port can drive a DVI monitor just fine, so the new MB/Pro can still be used with most monitors, but the new Apple display should just work great.
Not necessarily. What use it is to have ports but no peripherals to plug them into. For the first couple of years we had to use adaptors until the rest of the computer industry began to widely use USB.
But a computer will still work without say, a printer. Not the other way around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
This is true because no other Mac ships with display port. That's pretty easy to figure out.
You only see this as being stupid because you don't realize that notebooks are far outselling desktops. The purpose of this monitor is to be able to use your notebook with the advantages of a desktop.
Its very likely Apple will introduce new Mac Pros and Cinema Displays at MacWorld in January.
I know what you're saying. But a laptop already has a monitor and can go without a separate monitor. Their towers cannot... So Apple has, at least for now, completely eliminated the entire market of pre-existing Mac Pro owners and is relying on the recently available Macbook/Pro owners, many of whom will not want or need a separate display. This does not make sense to me. This is why I think they should have an adapter for these new monitors but they don't. This is why I'm thinking perhaps they cannot meet the demand for these new displays if they opened up the market to all people with computers with DVI ports.
I am more confused than before I read this thread. Can the 24" ACD work with a Mac (not a new aluminum laptop) using ANY form of adapter/cable available?
I'm surprised that the 24" ACD doesn't include an IR receiver. It is already uses the USB for connectivity in their notebooks so connecting to the 24" ACD's USB hub wouldn't be an issue. The only three possibilities I can think of are...
...that Apple is no longer focusing on multimedia on their Macs like when they included a remote and introduced FrontRow.
...this ACD is focused on the notebook line which has an IR receiver that still works while the lid is closed.
...the larger ACDs coming shortly (speculative) will be more focused on the MacPro and will included an IR receiver and FW800 hub to attract up-selling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead
So Apple has, at least for now, completely eliminated the entire market of pre-existing Mac Pro owners...
That would only be true if they stopped selling their other monitors, which they haven't. There are also many other vendors selling higher-end and lower-end monitors with DL-DVI.
I am more confused than before I read this thread. Can the 24" ACD work with a Mac (not a new aluminum laptop) using ANY form of adapter/cable available?
That's a good question. While moving from Display Port on the computer to DVI is easy, see below, moving the other way as yet, is undetermined. I haven't found anything so far for that.
And this is an interesting article explaining the differences between DP, HDMI, and DVI. It shows why it may not be possible in any relatively simple (AKA cheap) form.
3 years, or 30,000 hours, whichever comes first, on the screen and backlight.
Actually it's 5 years or 30k hours. (12 hours a day for 5 years is still under 30k hours). Why are we even disputing the warranty. The warranty on the ACD is 1 year. My friend had a 23" aluminum that he barely used... it died after 13 months. Apple wanted $500 to repair it. He swore of ACDs entirely after that.
To a professional, the coloring is most important... and it is extremely difficult to calibrate a glossy lcd. And mics are already built into every apple computer except the mac pro... of which you can get a cam and mic for dirt cheap. I'll take a matte display over glossy any day of the week.
To a professional, the coloring is most important... and it is extremely difficult to calibrate a glossy lcd. And mics are already built into every apple computer except the mac pro... of which you can get a cam and mic for dirt cheap. I'll take a matte display over glossy any day of the week.
No. On the spec page, it clearly says this:
Quote:
4 The usage time is limited to 30,000 hours or less, and the warranty period of the LCD panel and backlight is limited to three years from the date of purchase.
Ezio makes it very clear that this is NOT a graphics monitor meant for color work. I assume you read their page. It's a business monitor, or home monitor.
If you want to do color work, you should buy their professional graphics monitors which cost twice the price, or more for a 24". They also don't have LED backlighting.
Interestingly, the head monitor designer of NEC told me that they won't be using LED backlighting for their pro monitors, because of issues with the LEDs.
He said as they age, individual LEDs age differently across the screen, and you will get uneven brightness and color which can't be corrected.
Both NEC and Ezio are staying away from LED backlighting for their pro models as a result. Sometime in the future they will reconsider it.
I did not know that about LEDs... Originally I was going to purchase an NEC... then I saw this. I guess I'll be going back to NEC since they are in that same price range.
I did not know that about LEDs... Originally I was going to purchase an NEC... then I saw this. I guess I'll be going back to NEC since they are in that same price range.
Let me tell you, it bothered the hell out of me! I was going to argue with the guy about it, but then I realized he was right!
There are two ways to provide the backlight. One, and the really expensive way, is to use about 60 high power RGB LEDs in a manner that uses a diffuser and reflector to combine the light from all the LEDs into one combined beam. If some LEDs dim too fast, the entire display is affected equally, and can be adjusted.
The other, cheaper way is to use about a thousand white LED's, and distribute them behind the panel. That's the way the (cheap!!!) displays are being made now, including the several thousand dollar 30" displays.
The NEC 20" LED display that they do have uses the first method, is about four to five inches thick, weighs a lot for an LCD, and costs about $7 to $8 thousand bucks. The same for the Samsung.
I don't know how Apple is doing the laptop displays. Some of them use light tubes to distribute the light, but it can't be used for a big display.
You might be lucky with your Dell monitor. Not all ship with a Super IPS Panel. Dell use whatever panels they can get their hands on from the parts bin so its the luck of the draw with what you get. I've seen many many Dell screens side by side outputting different colours, even after calibration. Shocking really.
On all of Dell's current monitors, if you click on the tech specs page for the monitor, it tells you what type of panel it uses. There's no guessing game.
On all of Dell's current monitors, if you click on the tech specs page for the monitor, it tells you what type of panel it uses. There's no guessing game.
You're right, but they, and most other manufacturers do change sources for the panels even though it will usually be of the same type.
I did not know that about LEDs... Originally I was going to purchase an NEC... then I saw this. I guess I'll be going back to NEC since they are in that same price range.
They are not in the same price range! because they are not the same thing!
The LED technology is new. It is expensive. Right now the only other companies that have listed prices is LaCie* which starts at $2,650 and is not yet available, and Lenovo's ThinkVIsion at $750 which says it ships in 11 days from order.
EIZO? has also recently posted a press release which set a delivery date in Japan only, for the end of October. Still not available and the price has been suggested to be JYP$83,000, which today is about US$850.
Oops. NEC apparently has a 21" LED/LCD at $3,700 which is unavailable right now.
Only Apple's LED Cinema Display has a built in camera and speakers.
Most important As Apple has been quite clear about the new LED Cinema Display as boldly advertised,
[CENTER]"The first display made precisely for a MacBook [/CENTER]
"Introducing the 24-inch LED Cinema Display?
(for) your new MacBook, MacBook Pro and MacBook Air."
Update: It's worth noting that while there are plenty of bright, 24-inch LCD monitors on the market, Apple's is relatively inexpensive (possibly the cheapest) for LED backlit monitors of this size.http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/18/a...-for-purchase/
The Eizo is not available yet. The price is estimated to be around $800, without camera.
So, you want to compare a no-brand, with VGA/DVI input, monitor only (no USB), to a name-brand, with USB, DisplayPort, Mic, speakers, USB...
I would think that helps to show Apple's price is NOT out of line here.
You just dismissed your whole argument by calling Eizo a no-brand name .
DisplayPort is absolutely worthless to the rest of the world right now. You can't adapt a DisplayPort monitor to a computer with DVI... but you can go the other way. And the Eizo DOES have speakers, but as I pointed out earlier... who the hell is going to use these speakers. And finally... the usb on the ACD does not have enough ports to take over one of my ports... I need at LEAST 4 port hubs coming off of my TWO usb ports on my mbp.
Oh yah... and no matter what you say... matte trumps glossy any day of the week.
And finally, as I said earlier... who the hell cares about a cheap camera that the laptops already have?
They are not in the same price range! because they are not the same thing!
The LED technology is new. It is expensive. Right now the only other companies that have listed prices is LaCie* which starts at $2,650 and is not yet available, and Lenovo's ThinkVIsion at $750 which says it ships in 11 days from order.
EIZO? has also recently posted a press release which set a delivery date in Japan only, for the end of October. Still not available and the price has been suggested to be JYP$83,000, which today is about US$850.
Oops. NEC apparently has a 21" LED/LCD at $3,700 which is unavailable right now.
Only Apple's LED Cinema Display has a built in camera and speakers.
Most important As Apple has been quite clear about the new LED Cinema Display as boldly advertised,
SNIP
Have you not been paying attention to our conversation about LED backlighting? Have you ever tried to color calibrate a glossy screen? Have you ever tried to work on a glossy screen for more than a few hours? Just because apple has LED does not automatically make it a better monitor. We still don't even know what LED method it uses but we can bet it's not the expensive version since the monitor is on the cheap side for that.
Look, if Apple's screen wasn't glossy and used the high performance LED method like melgross pointed out I'd be all about it. (Oh and the fact that I can't even use it with my existing hardware). But the glossy on that screen will never allow me to purchase it.
Apple can market everything they want, it doesn't make it right. Take for instance their marketing on glossy. They tell you to turn the brightness down and MOVE. Really? That is my option now? To move? Ok fine... I'll accept that on a laptop. But on a desktop screen? You can't really MOVE. They try to claim that glossy is better. Glossy has only been proven to be better among consumers that have no idea what they are talking about and doing. That see shiny things and go "ohhhhhhhhhhhh, I want that". But then they get home and are constantly dodging and moving the background light to see what they want on that part of the screen.
The top NEC monitors are extremely good LCDs and to discount them as not being high class shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. I'd take a good NEC over Apple's display anyways. Apple's display brings nothing to the table for me except going nutso over glossy and having a weaker warranty than the rest. Three USB Ports? . DisplayPort? . 2.1 SPEAKERS IN A LCD . iSight? Already have one and don't use but twice a year. .
I'm not saying someone won't find value in these features, but I think to most who already have a laptop and already have speakers (out of box speakers will blow that lcd out of the water for sound), ACD brings nothing to the table.
The LED technology is new. It is expensive. Right now the only other companies that have listed prices is LaCie* which starts at $2,650
The difference is that the LaCie is an RGB LCD.
Which means it has a far wider displayable colour range than the glossy stuff Apple is peddling.
Since I don't have any numbers from the Apple display, here's a comparison between an Eizo LCD and the LaCie RGB LCD screen in numbers:
Eizo: The FlexScan SX2461W reproduces 95% of the Adobe RGB color space so it can display most colors in a photograph taken in Adobe RGB mode.
LaCie: The LaCie 724 Monitor’s ground–breaking RGB-LED backlight technology produces purer red, green and blue primaries, resulting in a larger range of vibrant colors previously unattainable by CCFL-based LCD monitors. It covers a remarkable 125% and 123% of the NTSC and Adobe RGB gamuts (CIE 1976)
From what I have gathered, the Eizo and ACD share the exact same panel. If this is the case, then the ACD and Eizo share the same color reproduction... throw in glossy with that and you get what? Have i mentioned I hate glossy? Glossy Sucks.
Comments
Don't forget Display Port can drive a DVI monitor just fine, so the new MB/Pro can still be used with most monitors, but the new Apple display should just work great.
That's true.
Not necessarily. What use it is to have ports but no peripherals to plug them into. For the first couple of years we had to use adaptors until the rest of the computer industry began to widely use USB.
But a computer will still work without say, a printer. Not the other way around.
This is true because no other Mac ships with display port. That's pretty easy to figure out.
You only see this as being stupid because you don't realize that notebooks are far outselling desktops. The purpose of this monitor is to be able to use your notebook with the advantages of a desktop.
Its very likely Apple will introduce new Mac Pros and Cinema Displays at MacWorld in January.
I know what you're saying. But a laptop already has a monitor and can go without a separate monitor. Their towers cannot... So Apple has, at least for now, completely eliminated the entire market of pre-existing Mac Pro owners and is relying on the recently available Macbook/Pro owners, many of whom will not want or need a separate display. This does not make sense to me. This is why I think they should have an adapter for these new monitors but they don't. This is why I'm thinking perhaps they cannot meet the demand for these new displays if they opened up the market to all people with computers with DVI ports.
I am more confused than before I read this thread. Can the 24" ACD work with a Mac (not a new aluminum laptop) using ANY form of adapter/cable available?
So Apple has, at least for now, completely eliminated the entire market of pre-existing Mac Pro owners...
That would only be true if they stopped selling their other monitors, which they haven't. There are also many other vendors selling higher-end and lower-end monitors with DL-DVI.
MelGross
I am more confused than before I read this thread. Can the 24" ACD work with a Mac (not a new aluminum laptop) using ANY form of adapter/cable available?
That's a good question. While moving from Display Port on the computer to DVI is easy, see below, moving the other way as yet, is undetermined. I haven't found anything so far for that.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...p?keyword=4827
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...3-3769765.html
And this is an interesting article explaining the differences between DP, HDMI, and DVI. It shows why it may not be possible in any relatively simple (AKA cheap) form.
http://www2.electronicproducts.com/D...2008-html.aspx
EXACT SAME PANEL!!!
And you get matte??? And you get a 5 year warranty??? And you get dvi??? wow.
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/ev2411w/index.asp
EXACT SAME PANEL!!!
And you get matte??? And you get a 5 year warranty??? wow.
We already went through this monitor.
It also doesn't have a video camera, or mic.
3 years, or 30,000 hours, whichever comes first, on the screen and backlight.
We already went through this monitor.
It also doesn't have a video camera, or mic.
3 years, or 30,000 hours, whichever comes first, on the screen and backlight.
Actually it's 5 years or 30k hours. (12 hours a day for 5 years is still under 30k hours). Why are we even disputing the warranty. The warranty on the ACD is 1 year. My friend had a 23" aluminum that he barely used... it died after 13 months. Apple wanted $500 to repair it. He swore of ACDs entirely after that.
To a professional, the coloring is most important... and it is extremely difficult to calibrate a glossy lcd. And mics are already built into every apple computer except the mac pro... of which you can get a cam and mic for dirt cheap. I'll take a matte display over glossy any day of the week.
Actually it's 5 years or 30k hours.
To a professional, the coloring is most important... and it is extremely difficult to calibrate a glossy lcd. And mics are already built into every apple computer except the mac pro... of which you can get a cam and mic for dirt cheap. I'll take a matte display over glossy any day of the week.
No. On the spec page, it clearly says this:
4 The usage time is limited to 30,000 hours or less, and the warranty period of the LCD panel and backlight is limited to three years from the date of purchase.
Ezio makes it very clear that this is NOT a graphics monitor meant for color work. I assume you read their page. It's a business monitor, or home monitor.
If you want to do color work, you should buy their professional graphics monitors which cost twice the price, or more for a 24". They also don't have LED backlighting.
Interestingly, the head monitor designer of NEC told me that they won't be using LED backlighting for their pro monitors, because of issues with the LEDs.
He said as they age, individual LEDs age differently across the screen, and you will get uneven brightness and color which can't be corrected.
Both NEC and Ezio are staying away from LED backlighting for their pro models as a result. Sometime in the future they will reconsider it.
I did not know that about LEDs... Originally I was going to purchase an NEC... then I saw this. I guess I'll be going back to NEC since they are in that same price range.
Let me tell you, it bothered the hell out of me! I was going to argue with the guy about it, but then I realized he was right!
There are two ways to provide the backlight. One, and the really expensive way, is to use about 60 high power RGB LEDs in a manner that uses a diffuser and reflector to combine the light from all the LEDs into one combined beam. If some LEDs dim too fast, the entire display is affected equally, and can be adjusted.
The other, cheaper way is to use about a thousand white LED's, and distribute them behind the panel. That's the way the (cheap!!!) displays are being made now, including the several thousand dollar 30" displays.
The NEC 20" LED display that they do have uses the first method, is about four to five inches thick, weighs a lot for an LCD, and costs about $7 to $8 thousand bucks. The same for the Samsung.
I don't know how Apple is doing the laptop displays. Some of them use light tubes to distribute the light, but it can't be used for a big display.
You might be lucky with your Dell monitor. Not all ship with a Super IPS Panel. Dell use whatever panels they can get their hands on from the parts bin so its the luck of the draw with what you get. I've seen many many Dell screens side by side outputting different colours, even after calibration. Shocking really.
On all of Dell's current monitors, if you click on the tech specs page for the monitor, it tells you what type of panel it uses. There's no guessing game.
On all of Dell's current monitors, if you click on the tech specs page for the monitor, it tells you what type of panel it uses. There's no guessing game.
You're right, but they, and most other manufacturers do change sources for the panels even though it will usually be of the same type.
I did not know that about LEDs... Originally I was going to purchase an NEC... then I saw this. I guess I'll be going back to NEC since they are in that same price range.
They are not in the same price range! because they are not the same thing!
The LED technology is new. It is expensive. Right now the only other companies that have listed prices is LaCie* which starts at $2,650 and is not yet available, and Lenovo's ThinkVIsion at $750 which says it ships in 11 days from order.
EIZO? has also recently posted a press release which set a delivery date in Japan only, for the end of October. Still not available and the price has been suggested to be JYP$83,000, which today is about US$850.
Oops. NEC apparently has a 21" LED/LCD at $3,700 which is unavailable right now.
Only Apple's LED Cinema Display has a built in camera and speakers.
Most important As Apple has been quite clear about the new LED Cinema Display as boldly advertised,
[CENTER]"The first display made precisely for a MacBook [/CENTER] In addition, as described on the LED Cinema Display, Technical Specifications page:
http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html" target="_blank">
http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html So, unless you have or about to get a new MacBook, MacBook Pro or MacBook Air, right now the LED Cinema Display is not for you.
It would seem logical that Apple will be updating its current line of Cinema Displays which just delisted its 23" model and added the new LED Cinema Display. http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...lays?n=display
P.S. From Engadget:
Update: It's worth noting that while there are plenty of bright, 24-inch LCD monitors on the market, Apple's is relatively inexpensive (possibly the cheapest) for LED backlit monitors of this size. http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/18/a...-for-purchase/
* http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c...3EAE93B7B4AEF6
? http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11094
** http://dcuser.net/others/eizo-led-ba...n-ev2411w.html
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/ev2411w/index.asp
EXACT SAME PANEL!!!
And you get matte??? And you get a 5 year warranty??? And you get dvi??? wow.
Am I missing something?
The Eizo is not available yet. The price is estimated to be around $800, without camera.
So, you want to compare a no-brand, with VGA/DVI input, monitor only (no USB), to a name-brand, with USB, DisplayPort, Mic, speakers, USB...
I would think that helps to show Apple's price is NOT out of line here.
Am I missing something?
The Eizo is not available yet. The price is estimated to be around $800, without camera.
So, you want to compare a no-brand, with VGA/DVI input, monitor only (no USB)
I suggest you to do a little bit of research before calling Eizo a no-brand company.
Am I missing something?
The Eizo is not available yet. The price is estimated to be around $800, without camera.
So, you want to compare a no-brand, with VGA/DVI input, monitor only (no USB), to a name-brand, with USB, DisplayPort, Mic, speakers, USB...
I would think that helps to show Apple's price is NOT out of line here.
You just dismissed your whole argument by calling Eizo a no-brand name
DisplayPort is absolutely worthless to the rest of the world right now. You can't adapt a DisplayPort monitor to a computer with DVI... but you can go the other way. And the Eizo DOES have speakers, but as I pointed out earlier... who the hell is going to use these speakers. And finally... the usb on the ACD does not have enough ports to take over one of my ports... I need at LEAST 4 port hubs coming off of my TWO usb ports on my mbp.
Oh yah... and no matter what you say... matte trumps glossy any day of the week.
And finally, as I said earlier... who the hell cares about a cheap camera that the laptops already have?
They are not in the same price range! because they are not the same thing!
The LED technology is new. It is expensive. Right now the only other companies that have listed prices is LaCie* which starts at $2,650 and is not yet available, and Lenovo's ThinkVIsion at $750 which says it ships in 11 days from order.
EIZO? has also recently posted a press release which set a delivery date in Japan only, for the end of October. Still not available and the price has been suggested to be JYP$83,000, which today is about US$850.
Oops. NEC apparently has a 21" LED/LCD at $3,700 which is unavailable right now.
Only Apple's LED Cinema Display has a built in camera and speakers.
Most important As Apple has been quite clear about the new LED Cinema Display as boldly advertised,
SNIP
Have you not been paying attention to our conversation about LED backlighting? Have you ever tried to color calibrate a glossy screen? Have you ever tried to work on a glossy screen for more than a few hours? Just because apple has LED does not automatically make it a better monitor. We still don't even know what LED method it uses but we can bet it's not the expensive version since the monitor is on the cheap side for that.
Look, if Apple's screen wasn't glossy and used the high performance LED method like melgross pointed out I'd be all about it. (Oh and the fact that I can't even use it with my existing hardware). But the glossy on that screen will never allow me to purchase it.
Apple can market everything they want, it doesn't make it right. Take for instance their marketing on glossy. They tell you to turn the brightness down and MOVE. Really? That is my option now? To move? Ok fine... I'll accept that on a laptop. But on a desktop screen? You can't really MOVE. They try to claim that glossy is better. Glossy has only been proven to be better among consumers that have no idea what they are talking about and doing. That see shiny things and go "ohhhhhhhhhhhh, I want that". But then they get home and are constantly dodging and moving the background light to see what they want on that part of the screen.
The top NEC monitors are extremely good LCDs and to discount them as not being high class shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. I'd take a good NEC over Apple's display anyways. Apple's display brings nothing to the table for me except going nutso over glossy and having a weaker warranty than the rest. Three USB Ports?
I'm not saying someone won't find value in these features, but I think to most who already have a laptop and already have speakers (out of box speakers will blow that lcd out of the water for sound), ACD brings nothing to the table.
The LED technology is new. It is expensive. Right now the only other companies that have listed prices is LaCie* which starts at $2,650
The difference is that the LaCie is an RGB LCD.
Which means it has a far wider displayable colour range than the glossy stuff Apple is peddling.
Since I don't have any numbers from the Apple display, here's a comparison between an Eizo LCD and the LaCie RGB LCD screen in numbers:
Eizo: The FlexScan SX2461W reproduces 95% of the Adobe RGB color space so it can display most colors in a photograph taken in Adobe RGB mode.
LaCie: The LaCie 724 Monitor’s ground–breaking RGB-LED backlight technology produces purer red, green and blue primaries, resulting in a larger range of vibrant colors previously unattainable by CCFL-based LCD monitors. It covers a remarkable 125% and 123% of the NTSC and Adobe RGB gamuts (CIE 1976)