And if Apple or whoever evolves said product into something you don't like you should just accept it and not address it- right?
Yep.. apparently people here don't see the correlation between apples gain in marketshare and Windows doing exactly what you just said. It's 100% proof of what I am getting at... ignore what the general masses want and you have yourself Windows Vista.
I don't think it is so much an issue of priority as it is something that was easy to complete in an already existing app. This is a key reality, street view cost them very little in development effort on an app that was already fairly sound. Copy and Past on the other hand is a huge issue.
Dave
Any developer worth a crap knows that taking the easy way out and implenting less important features over something else is the wrong way to go. I agree copy and paste is a huge undertaking and would likely be a huge challenge...but your telling me they couldn't get it working in a year and a half timespan? At this point I would be happy with simple 'copy and paste like' features and not exactly copy and paste anywhere. My old Samsung A707 provided ways to get data into my contacts that Apple has no solution for.
If they took a stance on it then I wouldn't be saying anything... but the fact that they are simply ignoring it or just keeping hush hush on the topic makes me think much less of them.
But you purchased the phone irrespective of your own needs/wants. By definition, that makes you the fanboy. And In the future, let your money do the talking - that is, if you aren't satisfied with what is being sold, don't buy it.
I looked at the Iphone indepth before purchasing and it fills almost all of my needs and wants... as I said this isn't about the Iphone being garbage... it's about what I am going to do with my money several months from now when the contract is up. I would like to keep my phone and enjoy new features that I care about. If Apple doesn't intend to provide the little things that will make the phone complete I will be letting my money talk.
That is exactly right an is how they have their business set up. It is up to you to buy into their business model. As to tethering you would have to be an idiot to believe that AT&T would accept such without restrictions. The simple fact is that 3G could handle a bunch of iPhone tethered to whatever computer. I really can't believe you don't know this as you seem to write well. Then again the ability to compose doesn't imply a grasp of anything I Guess.
Strange my A707 has been able to tether and use 3G for 2 years now...why is there an issue??
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You are really living in the past here as iPhone has proven to offer up exactly the sorts of features customers will lay out money for by the millions. Most people don't give a damn about MMS, tethering or any of the other crap people whine about here.
Unfortunately I would have to disagree... my boss and at least a dozen other people I know have avoided the Iphone because of tethering and some of the other complaints... for some business people tethering is a HUGE dealbreaker.
Maybe Apple should make a PRO version of the Iphone..at least those of us who need a little bit more could just pay them a few hundred dollars more and get what we need.
As far as arguing that most people don't care... would you say that those people have a clue what those features do?
I looked at the Iphone indepth before purchasing and it fills almost all of my needs and wants... as I said this isn't about the Iphone being garbage... it's about what I am going to do with my money several months from now when the contract is up. I would like to keep my phone and enjoy new features that I care about. If Apple doesn't intend to provide the little things that will make the phone complete I will be letting my money talk.
How many phone makers gives older owners free software and features updates? First generation iPhone owners still getting the free upgrades the 3G iPhone owners get regardless of the contract with the carrier.
When Apple released iPhone OS 2.0 people (the same people who want Apple to rush copy and paste) started whining and complaining that Apple is beta testing iPhone owners due to crashes. I don't think anyone prefer copy and paste over stability and security. If Apple delaying C&P and push notification service due to stability and security then be it. These are software issues that can be solved by software upgrades unlike some of the latest supposedly iPhone killer that lacks WiFi.. try getting free upgrade for that!!!
Even you have to agree that getting to the top and staying on top are two completely different things.. they proved they can get to the top...but can they stay there? That's what I am questioning.
Its difficult to question because we don't know what is planned for the future. Back in 2001 could we have envisioned that the iPod would turn out the way it has?
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Interface design.. so far most of the 'i-phone killers' have flat out been crap in layout and overall implentation... they have better 'features' but missed Apples 'magic' when it comes to design layout and aesthetics.
Interface is apart of it and others have been working on improving it. The reason they have failed isn't only the interface its also the underlying OS.
As someone said on another thread. The OS that the iPhone uses was originally designed to be run on workstations and has been scaled down. Most of mobile OS were originally designed to run simple applications on limited hardware and are being scaled up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S8ER01Z
Yep.. apparently people here don't see the correlation between apples gain in marketshare and Windows doing exactly what you just said. It's 100% proof of what I am getting at... ignore what the general masses want and you have yourself Windows Vista.
Windows isn't suffering because they aren't listening to their customers. Windows is suffering because its too big and is attempting to do too many things. MS does not have a focused vision of what Windows is supposed to be or do. MS wants to dominate the entire electronics market. They are the giant chasing after smaller more nimble and focused competitors.
Apple does not want to compete with everyone and dominate the electronics industry in totality. Apple knows when someone has made a better product. Apple is willing to partner up and use that better product in an Apple made product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S8ER01Z
If they took a stance on it then I wouldn't be saying anything... but the fact that they are simply ignoring it or just keeping hush hush on the topic makes me think much less of them.
This is the way Apple operates. They don't tell you what they are going to do until they are ready to do it. If you are going to use Apple products, you just have to get used to it and be patient.
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... merely stating the age old 'Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it' speal.
Apple's never exactly been in the position its in right now. At one limited point Apple used to sell more computers percentage wise in comparison to PC, Mac was a dominant OS for a few years, but its not the same as today. Apple has never sold the number of computers as it sells today, Apple has never dominated a market the way it dominates the media player market today, Apple has never made as much money as it makes today.
Its difficult to question because we don't know what is planned for the future. Back in 2001 could we have envisioned that the iPod would turn out the way it has?
Interface is apart of it and others have been working on improving it. The reason they have failed isn't only the interface its also the underlying OS.
As someone said on another thread. The OS that the iPhone uses was originally designed to be run on workstations and has been scaled down. Most of mobile OS were originally designed to run simple applications on limited hardware and are being scaled up.
Windows isn't suffering because they aren't listening to their customers. Windows is suffering because its too big and is attempting to do too many things. MS does not have a focused vision of what Windows is supposed to be or do. MS wants to dominate the entire electronics market. They are the giant chasing after smaller more nimble and focused competitors.
Apple does not want to compete with everyone and dominate the electronics industry in totality. Apple knows when someone has made a better product. Apple is willing to partner up and use that better product in an Apple made product.
This is the way Apple operates. They don't tell you what they are going to do until they are ready to do it. If you are going to use Apple products, you just have to get used to it and be patient.
Apple's never exactly been in the position its in right now. At one limited point Apple used to sell more computers percentage wise in comparison to PC, Mac was a dominant OS for a few years, but its not the same as today. Apple has never sold the number of computers as it sells today, Apple has never dominated a market the way it dominates the media player market today, Apple has never made as much money as it makes today.
All very good comments... I have to agree with all of it.
How many phone makers gives older owners free software and features updates? First generation iPhone owners still getting the free upgrades the 3G iPhone owners get regardless of the contract with the carrier.
When Apple released iPhone OS 2.0 people (the same people who want Apple to rush copy and paste) started whining and complaining that Apple is beta testing iPhone owners due to crashes. I don't think anyone prefer copy and paste over stability and security. If Apple delaying C&P and push notification service due to stability and security then be it. These are software issues that can be solved by software upgrades unlike some of the latest supposedly iPhone killer that lacks WiFi.. try getting free upgrade for that!!!
That is a very big plus... thought other company do have updates that are very limited (my Sync had firmware updates so it's not completely unheard of)...
I completely agree on spending time with security and stability improvements... I guess I am just frustrated, not being famliar with how Apple operates it's a shock to see how they are dealing with things.
As for those who found "street view" pointless. This morning I went for a hike on one of the areas enormous parks. Dozens of trails and multiple entrances. I was meeting up with a group of people who gave me rather vague directions and found myself rather hopelessly lost (or so I thought) on one of the roads leading up to a Forest Service access road, which has a generic and unmarked gate across the entrance. Unfortunately, the road I had driven up to the gate had no visible streets signs, so I really wasn't sure which entrance area I was standing near.
Long story short, I used the new Google Maps which showed me where I was. To my further amazement, a couple of taps later and I the app not only brought up the address, but also the "street view" on the EXACT scene I was viewing. Eerie, but it sure blew my mind.
It also told me I was precisely that I was where I needed to be.
he wanted to get on with the presentation and not be slowed down by 10 minutes of people playing around with the unibody.
and you read a book, read it literally and taking every word for granted, and then criticize a guy whose business is doing well in an economic recession and has nearly as much money in its bank accounts as microsoft?
well played good sir, well played.
What are you talking about?
I have several Mac Genius friends, Pasadena CA store, the MB (new) are going out the door DOA and sales are slow.
With regard to doing well? $200 a few months ago, stock now at $82.
I love it how Fanboys love to worship jobs when he's a paranoid fool (GO EFI-X, Pystar) and likes to tinker with failed AIR (predicted that when it first came out, now it suffers from sales) and Apple TV (terrible sales) and the point of taking FW1394 from Macbook Pro's were a direct smack at PRO users - am glad that the #1 AVID CREATIVE EDITING SCHOOL (Burbank CA) are now using PC's - - Avid (VIDEO) Symphony, Burbank California.
888-871-2843, ask for Greg, Admissions Director - I remember (as a composer), producer (3 Sony), FF Music Supervisor (everyone here has seen at least one of my movies or TV shows, when Mac's used to be the norm for rendering - no longer the case.
Trust me, Jobs IS PARANOID and treats his staff like live stock.
Sure, there are PRO's out there - but not like they used to be, Avid, Pro Tools, numerous MAC markets all vanishing, especially in the arena of audio/video, now its all mom, joe and dad and their dv cam corders taking classes from Apple by trainers that are paid $14 bucks an hour so they can make a home movie.
A few years ago, Genius and Creatives use to make MUCHO dollars, now they make $14-17, and $18 or so for Genius. I think the sales rep (specialist) get about $10 an hour, no benifits nor health insurance and some of my friends there are peeved but the job market stinks.
So while it's true Jobs helped bring the MAC to MOM and DAD, you need to pick up this book I was talking about for business and read the top 10 things to watch out for in a bad boss - all 10 relate to Steve. #1 was, make fun of the compition by mocking them (I'm A Mac, I'm a PC commericial) while letting the PRO market die and treating his retail employee's like trash. In fact, if you sell really well, I think they throw a pizza party every quarter and hand out a piece of paper saying good job. WOW, what a jerk. One person I knew sold 1.3 million last year in sales and because she didn't sell the Apple Care, or BRICKS as they call Mac's without attachments, she didn't even get recognized.
Go ahead, google working for Apple retail, then look at the stock price, not doing so good.
If you all ever feel like getting back on topic, check out my YouTube video of the iPhone 3G 2.2 Software/Firmware Update, featuring Google Street View in Sydney and Melbourne, Australia.
Running on a Malaysian network (Maxis) 3G, using a Singapore Singtel fully unlocked iPhone 3G... (Yes, it all sounds confusing).
Do check it out if you feel like seeing Street View in action, and also if you are interested in what I sound like...
For YouTube, and live iPhone 3G screen recording, I must say I was able to get a very good screen capture. Using an "anamorphic" FW400 iSight technique.
...So while it's true Jobs helped bring the MAC to MOM and DAD, you need to pick up this book I was talking about for business and read the top 10 things to watch out for in a bad boss - all 10 relate to Steve. #1 was, make fun of the compition by mocking them (I'm A Mac, I'm a PC commericial) while letting the PRO market die and treating his retail employee's like trash. In fact, if you sell really well, I think they throw a pizza party every quarter and hand out a piece of paper saying good job. WOW, what a jerk. One person I knew sold 1.3 million last year in sales and because she didn't sell the Apple Care, or BRICKS as they call Mac's without attachments, she didn't even get recognized...
I worked for over a year and a half at an Apple Premium Reseller, and I was at Carphone Warehouse (UK's Best Buy for mobile phones, etc) for just one day... Retail is shit. End of story. If your argument is how Apple Retail sucks, you can rave on about us being fanboys but Apple official Stores Retail is considered the top of the poo pie.
You've obviously got some resentment for Apple, the organisation, and its products, you raise some issues which people do discuss - Apple is not perfect... But really, in the current global socio-economic environment, we've all experienced products, corporate cultures, and retail environments that are far, far worse.
You sound as though bringing the Mac to Mom and Dad is a grimy, humiliating thing.
I would venture, sir, that from my experience, video editors, creative "geniuses" and the "broadcast industry" are a sometimes a bunch of pompous, elitist bastards that think Apple is their exclusive provider for all their needs. Those "Apple Solutions Sales Consultants" (Apple Pro Resellers) I've encountered are sometimes far more a bunch of assholes (managers and sales reps) then Apple official Retail Store staff.
I've seen people, that's right, everyday people that the "creative industry" would think as mindless, boring drones, discover the joy and fulfillment of experiencing their digital lifestyle on a Mac and Apple products. I've seen people that enjoy using their iPhones. Who are you to say you or your industry/ clique/ gang/ whatever ... is more deserving? Then berate Apple when you feel sidelined?
Really, who's pointing a gun to your head and asking you NOT to use Avid or Digidesign on PCs all the time? Nobody.
I understand your friends that used to work for Apple may be disgruntled. We're not saying here that Apple is the Happiest Place (To Work) On Earth™. One has to ask though, a company is a company, Steve is not a God, he is a human being, there are many talented people that do find satisfaction working for Dell, Oracle, or other big Tech corporations. All companies change fairly rapidly, and this sucks, as many of us experienced, but we should attempt to move on.
If there are things about Apple and the Mac that we still enjoy, then enjoy that. You don't have to worship at any altar or work for Apple just to enjoy whatever it is you might still enjoy about any Apple, Mac, software, game, PC, industry, whatever. Personal responsibility.
I have several Mac Genius friends, Pasadena CA store, the MB (new) are going out the door DOA and sales are slow.
With regard to doing well? $200 a few months ago, stock now at $82.
Are you living in a cave?! The whole stock market is nose diving for the last few months! For the same period you mentioned Microsoft, Intel, Dell and many others are down more than 50%. It is not Apple. Actually Apple is probably the only one with sustained growth.
From where are you getting your information? MB DOA? saying a friend who work for Apple told me so does not count as creditable source. Go check Amazon for best selling computers. On Amazon MacBook is No. 9 and it is the first $500+ computer (Guess who is the second 500+ computer?! Yep.. The MacBook Air).
You should do your research first.
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I love it how Fanboys love to worship jobs when he's a paranoid fool (GO EFI-X, Pystar) and likes to tinker with failed AIR (predicted that when it first came out, now it suffers from sales) and Apple TV (terrible sales) and the point of taking FW1394 from Macbook Pro's were a direct smack at PRO users - am glad that the #1 AVID CREATIVE EDITING SCHOOL (Burbank CA) are now using PC's - - Avid (VIDEO) Symphony, Burbank California.
888-871-2843, ask for Greg, Admissions Director - I remember (as a composer), producer (3 Sony), FF Music Supervisor (everyone here has seen at least one of my movies or TV shows, when Mac's used to be the norm for rendering - no longer the case.
Trust me, Jobs IS PARANOID and treats his staff like live stock.
Axel Springer AG dumbed 12000 PCs for Macs as well as many other companies. Apple is trying to position itself in the consumers market right now and there is nothing wrong with that. Additionally, they are also gaining market share and their growth outpace any other computer maker.
Let me tell you something.. Bosses are paranoid.. If you are running and responsible for over $80 billion of stock holders money you will be even more paranoid (that if you did not have a heart attack by the first staff meeting).
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Sure, there are PRO's out there - but not like they used to be, Avid, Pro Tools, numerous MAC markets all vanishing, especially in the arena of audio/video, now its all mom, joe and dad and their dv cam corders taking classes from Apple by trainers that are paid $14 bucks an hour so they can make a home movie.
and how is that different from the alternatives?! What is wrong with targeting consumers?!
Unless you can provide reports about the overall Mac professional market losing market share I have to mark your statement as complete BS.
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A few years ago, Genius and Creatives use to make MUCHO dollars, now they make $14-17, and $18 or so for Genius. I think the sales rep (specialist) get about $10 an hour, no benifits nor health insurance and some of my friends there are peeved but the job market stinks.
So while it's true Jobs helped bring the MAC to MOM and DAD, you need to pick up this book I was talking about for business and read the top 10 things to watch out for in a bad boss - all 10 relate to Steve. #1 was, make fun of the compition by mocking them (I'm A Mac, I'm a PC commericial) while letting the PRO market die and treating his retail employee's like trash. In fact, if you sell really well, I think they throw a pizza party every quarter and hand out a piece of paper saying good job. WOW, what a jerk. One person I knew sold 1.3 million last year in sales and because she didn't sell the Apple Care, or BRICKS as they call Mac's without attachments, she didn't even get recognized.
Go ahead, google working for Apple retail, then look at the stock price, not doing so good.
I think you are miss interpreting what you are reading. You said bad bosses and you consider SJ to be Apple. Yes SJ is the CEO and he runs the show but just because Apple marketing is targeting the competition weakness does reflect on the personality of Apple executives. SJ never made fun of the competition and laughed hilariously on a TV interview (Steve Ballmer always do that against Apple but I don't see you bashing him). SJ might treat his employees harshly but personally I think that what a good boss should be for the sake of the business. Otherwise, people will keep screwing up. Mr. Nice Guy has no place in the corporate world my friend.
I don't know what book you are reading or who wrote it but I really suggest you read Jack Welch's "Winning". He took GE to the next level. One of the things he suggest business owners/CEOs to do is to fire the lower 10% of employees who do bad every year.
The issue here is not fanboys, which i really consider those who uses this term childish. I really hate it when people keep spreading unsupported information and always refuse to accept the facts and numbers. I mean come on!! you are coming to Apple centric website trying to do what?! convert people to Windows, Linux, or type writers?!! Most people here know everything about Apple and their history.
Try going to Microsoft centric website and trying bashing MS, Bill Gates, or Steve Ballmer and maybe call them fanboys. You will get the same response. The same goes for Dell, HP, Nokia.... etc.
It has been known to those, since the release of the new iPhone, who have a BMW, that the bluetooth sync call quality was terrible. BMW has a special adapter that lets you use an iPhone directly with the radio and control the iPods functions. Every call was filled with echoes and no one wanted to talk to me. It almost caused me to get a cheapo phone to exchange my SIM when traveling.
Well problem is fixed. No more echoes over bluetooth and call quality is excellent.
The problem is - still no one wants to talk to me and I don't have the phone to blame anymore.
How many phone makers gives older owners free software and features updates? First generation iPhone owners still getting the free upgrades the 3G iPhone owners get regardless of the contract with the carrier.
When Apple released iPhone OS 2.0 people (the same people who want Apple to rush copy and paste) started whining and complaining that Apple is beta testing iPhone owners due to crashes. I don't think anyone prefer copy and paste over stability and security. If Apple delaying C&P and push notification service due to stability and security then be it. These are software issues that can be solved by software upgrades unlike some of the latest supposedly iPhone killer that lacks WiFi.. try getting free upgrade for that!!!
If any product is being evolved into something a consumer doesn't want - of course the consumer should speak up. That is not complaining.
Look at the AppleTV- that's evolved into an Apple Digital Jukebox that puts my files' priority at the bottom of it's menu. It basic mission is to sell/rent me DRM crap. I can't even search my own music- only what's for sale from Apple. Would I have bought that in June 2007 if I knew that here in Nov 2008 it would evolve into that? No way.
I think it's quite exasperating when people tell other people what to do in this way.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
I do realize their is a relatively small group of people who have the luxury and time to care so much about something that is fairly trivial in the larger scheme of things.
Frankly, a "you're in the minority" argument is a cop-out.
Carrying the trivial argument even farther, a data phone is often a poor use of money in the larger scheme of things, arguing about what features are trivial or not on a trivial device is a triviality in itself. Might as well acknowledge it and embrace it.
Comments
And if Apple or whoever evolves said product into something you don't like you should just accept it and not address it- right?
Yep.. apparently people here don't see the correlation between apples gain in marketshare and Windows doing exactly what you just said. It's 100% proof of what I am getting at... ignore what the general masses want and you have yourself Windows Vista.
I don't think it is so much an issue of priority as it is something that was easy to complete in an already existing app. This is a key reality, street view cost them very little in development effort on an app that was already fairly sound. Copy and Past on the other hand is a huge issue.
Dave
Any developer worth a crap knows that taking the easy way out and implenting less important features over something else is the wrong way to go. I agree copy and paste is a huge undertaking and would likely be a huge challenge...but your telling me they couldn't get it working in a year and a half timespan? At this point I would be happy with simple 'copy and paste like' features and not exactly copy and paste anywhere. My old Samsung A707 provided ways to get data into my contacts that Apple has no solution for.
If they took a stance on it then I wouldn't be saying anything... but the fact that they are simply ignoring it or just keeping hush hush on the topic makes me think much less of them.
But you purchased the phone irrespective of your own needs/wants. By definition, that makes you the fanboy. And In the future, let your money do the talking - that is, if you aren't satisfied with what is being sold, don't buy it.
I looked at the Iphone indepth before purchasing and it fills almost all of my needs and wants... as I said this isn't about the Iphone being garbage... it's about what I am going to do with my money several months from now when the contract is up. I would like to keep my phone and enjoy new features that I care about. If Apple doesn't intend to provide the little things that will make the phone complete I will be letting my money talk.
That is exactly right an is how they have their business set up. It is up to you to buy into their business model. As to tethering you would have to be an idiot to believe that AT&T would accept such without restrictions. The simple fact is that 3G could handle a bunch of iPhone tethered to whatever computer. I really can't believe you don't know this as you seem to write well. Then again the ability to compose doesn't imply a grasp of anything I Guess.
Strange my A707 has been able to tether and use 3G for 2 years now...why is there an issue??
You are really living in the past here as iPhone has proven to offer up exactly the sorts of features customers will lay out money for by the millions. Most people don't give a damn about MMS, tethering or any of the other crap people whine about here.
Unfortunately I would have to disagree... my boss and at least a dozen other people I know have avoided the Iphone because of tethering and some of the other complaints... for some business people tethering is a HUGE dealbreaker.
Maybe Apple should make a PRO version of the Iphone..at least those of us who need a little bit more could just pay them a few hundred dollars more and get what we need.
As far as arguing that most people don't care... would you say that those people have a clue what those features do?
I looked at the Iphone indepth before purchasing and it fills almost all of my needs and wants... as I said this isn't about the Iphone being garbage... it's about what I am going to do with my money several months from now when the contract is up. I would like to keep my phone and enjoy new features that I care about. If Apple doesn't intend to provide the little things that will make the phone complete I will be letting my money talk.
How many phone makers gives older owners free software and features updates? First generation iPhone owners still getting the free upgrades the 3G iPhone owners get regardless of the contract with the carrier.
When Apple released iPhone OS 2.0 people (the same people who want Apple to rush copy and paste) started whining and complaining that Apple is beta testing iPhone owners due to crashes. I don't think anyone prefer copy and paste over stability and security. If Apple delaying C&P and push notification service due to stability and security then be it. These are software issues that can be solved by software upgrades unlike some of the latest supposedly iPhone killer that lacks WiFi.. try getting free upgrade for that!!!
Even you have to agree that getting to the top and staying on top are two completely different things.. they proved they can get to the top...but can they stay there? That's what I am questioning.
Its difficult to question because we don't know what is planned for the future. Back in 2001 could we have envisioned that the iPod would turn out the way it has?
Interface design.. so far most of the 'i-phone killers' have flat out been crap in layout and overall implentation... they have better 'features' but missed Apples 'magic' when it comes to design layout and aesthetics.
Interface is apart of it and others have been working on improving it. The reason they have failed isn't only the interface its also the underlying OS.
As someone said on another thread. The OS that the iPhone uses was originally designed to be run on workstations and has been scaled down. Most of mobile OS were originally designed to run simple applications on limited hardware and are being scaled up.
Yep.. apparently people here don't see the correlation between apples gain in marketshare and Windows doing exactly what you just said. It's 100% proof of what I am getting at... ignore what the general masses want and you have yourself Windows Vista.
Windows isn't suffering because they aren't listening to their customers. Windows is suffering because its too big and is attempting to do too many things. MS does not have a focused vision of what Windows is supposed to be or do. MS wants to dominate the entire electronics market. They are the giant chasing after smaller more nimble and focused competitors.
Apple does not want to compete with everyone and dominate the electronics industry in totality. Apple knows when someone has made a better product. Apple is willing to partner up and use that better product in an Apple made product.
If they took a stance on it then I wouldn't be saying anything... but the fact that they are simply ignoring it or just keeping hush hush on the topic makes me think much less of them.
This is the way Apple operates. They don't tell you what they are going to do until they are ready to do it. If you are going to use Apple products, you just have to get used to it and be patient.
... merely stating the age old 'Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it' speal.
Apple's never exactly been in the position its in right now. At one limited point Apple used to sell more computers percentage wise in comparison to PC, Mac was a dominant OS for a few years, but its not the same as today. Apple has never sold the number of computers as it sells today, Apple has never dominated a market the way it dominates the media player market today, Apple has never made as much money as it makes today.
Its difficult to question because we don't know what is planned for the future. Back in 2001 could we have envisioned that the iPod would turn out the way it has?
Interface is apart of it and others have been working on improving it. The reason they have failed isn't only the interface its also the underlying OS.
As someone said on another thread. The OS that the iPhone uses was originally designed to be run on workstations and has been scaled down. Most of mobile OS were originally designed to run simple applications on limited hardware and are being scaled up.
Windows isn't suffering because they aren't listening to their customers. Windows is suffering because its too big and is attempting to do too many things. MS does not have a focused vision of what Windows is supposed to be or do. MS wants to dominate the entire electronics market. They are the giant chasing after smaller more nimble and focused competitors.
Apple does not want to compete with everyone and dominate the electronics industry in totality. Apple knows when someone has made a better product. Apple is willing to partner up and use that better product in an Apple made product.
This is the way Apple operates. They don't tell you what they are going to do until they are ready to do it. If you are going to use Apple products, you just have to get used to it and be patient.
Apple's never exactly been in the position its in right now. At one limited point Apple used to sell more computers percentage wise in comparison to PC, Mac was a dominant OS for a few years, but its not the same as today. Apple has never sold the number of computers as it sells today, Apple has never dominated a market the way it dominates the media player market today, Apple has never made as much money as it makes today.
All very good comments...
How many phone makers gives older owners free software and features updates? First generation iPhone owners still getting the free upgrades the 3G iPhone owners get regardless of the contract with the carrier.
When Apple released iPhone OS 2.0 people (the same people who want Apple to rush copy and paste) started whining and complaining that Apple is beta testing iPhone owners due to crashes. I don't think anyone prefer copy and paste over stability and security. If Apple delaying C&P and push notification service due to stability and security then be it. These are software issues that can be solved by software upgrades unlike some of the latest supposedly iPhone killer that lacks WiFi.. try getting free upgrade for that!!!
That is a very big plus... thought other company do have updates that are very limited (my Sync had firmware updates so it's not completely unheard of)...
I completely agree on spending time with security and stability improvements... I guess I am just frustrated, not being famliar with how Apple operates it's a shock to see how they are dealing with things.
as you said, no one makes a perfect product. so PLEASE stop yelling for apple to make one. you're asking for the impossible.
Can't I dream?
Yeah but is it snappier?
Ah... someone had to say it.
As for those who found "street view" pointless. This morning I went for a hike on one of the areas enormous parks. Dozens of trails and multiple entrances. I was meeting up with a group of people who gave me rather vague directions and found myself rather hopelessly lost (or so I thought) on one of the roads leading up to a Forest Service access road, which has a generic and unmarked gate across the entrance. Unfortunately, the road I had driven up to the gate had no visible streets signs, so I really wasn't sure which entrance area I was standing near.
Long story short, I used the new Google Maps which showed me where I was. To my further amazement, a couple of taps later and I the app not only brought up the address, but also the "street view" on the EXACT scene I was viewing. Eerie, but it sure blew my mind.
It also told me I was precisely that I was where I needed to be.
They've released an updated version for the 2.2 software.
he wanted to get on with the presentation and not be slowed down by 10 minutes of people playing around with the unibody.
and you read a book, read it literally and taking every word for granted, and then criticize a guy whose business is doing well in an economic recession and has nearly as much money in its bank accounts as microsoft?
well played good sir, well played.
What are you talking about?
I have several Mac Genius friends, Pasadena CA store, the MB (new) are going out the door DOA and sales are slow.
With regard to doing well? $200 a few months ago, stock now at $82.
I love it how Fanboys love to worship jobs when he's a paranoid fool (GO EFI-X, Pystar) and likes to tinker with failed AIR (predicted that when it first came out, now it suffers from sales) and Apple TV (terrible sales) and the point of taking FW1394 from Macbook Pro's were a direct smack at PRO users - am glad that the #1 AVID CREATIVE EDITING SCHOOL (Burbank CA) are now using PC's - - Avid (VIDEO) Symphony, Burbank California.
888-871-2843, ask for Greg, Admissions Director - I remember (as a composer), producer (3 Sony), FF Music Supervisor (everyone here has seen at least one of my movies or TV shows, when Mac's used to be the norm for rendering - no longer the case.
Trust me, Jobs IS PARANOID and treats his staff like live stock.
Sure, there are PRO's out there - but not like they used to be, Avid, Pro Tools, numerous MAC markets all vanishing, especially in the arena of audio/video, now its all mom, joe and dad and their dv cam corders taking classes from Apple by trainers that are paid $14 bucks an hour so they can make a home movie.
A few years ago, Genius and Creatives use to make MUCHO dollars, now they make $14-17, and $18 or so for Genius. I think the sales rep (specialist) get about $10 an hour, no benifits nor health insurance and some of my friends there are peeved but the job market stinks.
So while it's true Jobs helped bring the MAC to MOM and DAD, you need to pick up this book I was talking about for business and read the top 10 things to watch out for in a bad boss - all 10 relate to Steve. #1 was, make fun of the compition by mocking them (I'm A Mac, I'm a PC commericial) while letting the PRO market die and treating his retail employee's like trash. In fact, if you sell really well, I think they throw a pizza party every quarter and hand out a piece of paper saying good job. WOW, what a jerk. One person I knew sold 1.3 million last year in sales and because she didn't sell the Apple Care, or BRICKS as they call Mac's without attachments, she didn't even get recognized.
Go ahead, google working for Apple retail, then look at the stock price, not doing so good.
Running on a Malaysian network (Maxis) 3G, using a Singapore Singtel fully unlocked iPhone 3G... (Yes, it all sounds confusing).
Do check it out if you feel like seeing Street View in action, and also if you are interested in what I sound like...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlCs25uRvBI&fmt=18
For YouTube, and live iPhone 3G screen recording, I must say I was able to get a very good screen capture. Using an "anamorphic" FW400 iSight technique.
...So while it's true Jobs helped bring the MAC to MOM and DAD, you need to pick up this book I was talking about for business and read the top 10 things to watch out for in a bad boss - all 10 relate to Steve. #1 was, make fun of the compition by mocking them (I'm A Mac, I'm a PC commericial) while letting the PRO market die and treating his retail employee's like trash. In fact, if you sell really well, I think they throw a pizza party every quarter and hand out a piece of paper saying good job. WOW, what a jerk. One person I knew sold 1.3 million last year in sales and because she didn't sell the Apple Care, or BRICKS as they call Mac's without attachments, she didn't even get recognized...
I worked for over a year and a half at an Apple Premium Reseller, and I was at Carphone Warehouse (UK's Best Buy for mobile phones, etc) for just one day... Retail is shit. End of story. If your argument is how Apple Retail sucks, you can rave on about us being fanboys but Apple official Stores Retail is considered the top of the poo pie.
You've obviously got some resentment for Apple, the organisation, and its products, you raise some issues which people do discuss - Apple is not perfect... But really, in the current global socio-economic environment, we've all experienced products, corporate cultures, and retail environments that are far, far worse.
You sound as though bringing the Mac to Mom and Dad is a grimy, humiliating thing.
I would venture, sir, that from my experience, video editors, creative "geniuses" and the "broadcast industry" are a sometimes a bunch of pompous, elitist bastards that think Apple is their exclusive provider for all their needs. Those "Apple Solutions Sales Consultants" (Apple Pro Resellers) I've encountered are sometimes far more a bunch of assholes (managers and sales reps) then Apple official Retail Store staff.
I've seen people, that's right, everyday people that the "creative industry" would think as mindless, boring drones, discover the joy and fulfillment of experiencing their digital lifestyle on a Mac and Apple products. I've seen people that enjoy using their iPhones. Who are you to say you or your industry/ clique/ gang/ whatever ... is more deserving? Then berate Apple when you feel sidelined?
Really, who's pointing a gun to your head and asking you NOT to use Avid or Digidesign on PCs all the time? Nobody.
I understand your friends that used to work for Apple may be disgruntled. We're not saying here that Apple is the Happiest Place (To Work) On Earth™. One has to ask though, a company is a company, Steve is not a God, he is a human being, there are many talented people that do find satisfaction working for Dell, Oracle, or other big Tech corporations. All companies change fairly rapidly, and this sucks, as many of us experienced, but we should attempt to move on.
If there are things about Apple and the Mac that we still enjoy, then enjoy that. You don't have to worship at any altar or work for Apple just to enjoy whatever it is you might still enjoy about any Apple, Mac, software, game, PC, industry, whatever. Personal responsibility.
What are you talking about?
I have several Mac Genius friends, Pasadena CA store, the MB (new) are going out the door DOA and sales are slow.
With regard to doing well? $200 a few months ago, stock now at $82.
Are you living in a cave?! The whole stock market is nose diving for the last few months! For the same period you mentioned Microsoft, Intel, Dell and many others are down more than 50%. It is not Apple. Actually Apple is probably the only one with sustained growth.
From where are you getting your information? MB DOA? saying a friend who work for Apple told me so does not count as creditable source. Go check Amazon for best selling computers. On Amazon MacBook is No. 9 and it is the first $500+ computer (Guess who is the second 500+ computer?! Yep.. The MacBook Air).
You should do your research first.
I love it how Fanboys love to worship jobs when he's a paranoid fool (GO EFI-X, Pystar) and likes to tinker with failed AIR (predicted that when it first came out, now it suffers from sales) and Apple TV (terrible sales) and the point of taking FW1394 from Macbook Pro's were a direct smack at PRO users - am glad that the #1 AVID CREATIVE EDITING SCHOOL (Burbank CA) are now using PC's - - Avid (VIDEO) Symphony, Burbank California.
888-871-2843, ask for Greg, Admissions Director - I remember (as a composer), producer (3 Sony), FF Music Supervisor (everyone here has seen at least one of my movies or TV shows, when Mac's used to be the norm for rendering - no longer the case.
Trust me, Jobs IS PARANOID and treats his staff like live stock.
Axel Springer AG dumbed 12000 PCs for Macs as well as many other companies. Apple is trying to position itself in the consumers market right now and there is nothing wrong with that. Additionally, they are also gaining market share and their growth outpace any other computer maker.
Let me tell you something.. Bosses are paranoid.. If you are running and responsible for over $80 billion of stock holders money you will be even more paranoid (that if you did not have a heart attack by the first staff meeting).
Sure, there are PRO's out there - but not like they used to be, Avid, Pro Tools, numerous MAC markets all vanishing, especially in the arena of audio/video, now its all mom, joe and dad and their dv cam corders taking classes from Apple by trainers that are paid $14 bucks an hour so they can make a home movie.
and how is that different from the alternatives?! What is wrong with targeting consumers?!
Unless you can provide reports about the overall Mac professional market losing market share I have to mark your statement as complete BS.
A few years ago, Genius and Creatives use to make MUCHO dollars, now they make $14-17, and $18 or so for Genius. I think the sales rep (specialist) get about $10 an hour, no benifits nor health insurance and some of my friends there are peeved but the job market stinks.
Not according to Apple website.
So while it's true Jobs helped bring the MAC to MOM and DAD, you need to pick up this book I was talking about for business and read the top 10 things to watch out for in a bad boss - all 10 relate to Steve. #1 was, make fun of the compition by mocking them (I'm A Mac, I'm a PC commericial) while letting the PRO market die and treating his retail employee's like trash. In fact, if you sell really well, I think they throw a pizza party every quarter and hand out a piece of paper saying good job. WOW, what a jerk. One person I knew sold 1.3 million last year in sales and because she didn't sell the Apple Care, or BRICKS as they call Mac's without attachments, she didn't even get recognized.
Go ahead, google working for Apple retail, then look at the stock price, not doing so good.
I think you are miss interpreting what you are reading. You said bad bosses and you consider SJ to be Apple. Yes SJ is the CEO and he runs the show but just because Apple marketing is targeting the competition weakness does reflect on the personality of Apple executives. SJ never made fun of the competition and laughed hilariously on a TV interview (Steve Ballmer always do that against Apple but I don't see you bashing him). SJ might treat his employees harshly but personally I think that what a good boss should be for the sake of the business. Otherwise, people will keep screwing up. Mr. Nice Guy has no place in the corporate world my friend.
I don't know what book you are reading or who wrote it but I really suggest you read Jack Welch's "Winning". He took GE to the next level. One of the things he suggest business owners/CEOs to do is to fire the lower 10% of employees who do bad every year.
The issue here is not fanboys, which i really consider those who uses this term childish. I really hate it when people keep spreading unsupported information and always refuse to accept the facts and numbers. I mean come on!! you are coming to Apple centric website trying to do what?! convert people to Windows, Linux, or type writers?!! Most people here know everything about Apple and their history.
Try going to Microsoft centric website and trying bashing MS, Bill Gates, or Steve Ballmer and maybe call them fanboys. You will get the same response. The same goes for Dell, HP, Nokia.... etc.
Well problem is fixed. No more echoes over bluetooth and call quality is excellent.
The problem is - still no one wants to talk to me and I don't have the phone to blame anymore.
I have an original iPhone and the map upgrade did not load to my phone!
I don't see how it couldn't since it's built into the v2.2 update. How did you verify that it didn't update Maps?
How many phone makers gives older owners free software and features updates? First generation iPhone owners still getting the free upgrades the 3G iPhone owners get regardless of the contract with the carrier.
When Apple released iPhone OS 2.0 people (the same people who want Apple to rush copy and paste) started whining and complaining that Apple is beta testing iPhone owners due to crashes. I don't think anyone prefer copy and paste over stability and security. If Apple delaying C&P and push notification service due to stability and security then be it. These are software issues that can be solved by software upgrades unlike some of the latest supposedly iPhone killer that lacks WiFi.. try getting free upgrade for that!!!
If any product is being evolved into something a consumer doesn't want - of course the consumer should speak up. That is not complaining.
Look at the AppleTV- that's evolved into an Apple Digital Jukebox that puts my files' priority at the bottom of it's menu. It basic mission is to sell/rent me DRM crap. I can't even search my own music- only what's for sale from Apple. Would I have bought that in June 2007 if I knew that here in Nov 2008 it would evolve into that? No way.
Enjoy your iPhone and stop complaining.
I think it's quite exasperating when people tell other people what to do in this way.
I do realize their is a relatively small group of people who have the luxury and time to care so much about something that is fairly trivial in the larger scheme of things.
Frankly, a "you're in the minority" argument is a cop-out.
Carrying the trivial argument even farther, a data phone is often a poor use of money in the larger scheme of things, arguing about what features are trivial or not on a trivial device is a triviality in itself. Might as well acknowledge it and embrace it.