we're going to pay for jaguar it seems.

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
just watched the bulk of the server intro on quicktime streaming. one of the questions during the q&a session was whether someone who buys an x server today will have to pay for an upgrade to jaguar os x server. steve confirmed that you'd end up paying for it at the end of the summer. i seriously doubt they'd make brand new server customers pay for jaguar if they weren't going to also make regular customers pay for it too.



i suppose that's why they don't give it a version name, only a codename. if it were called 10.2 and we had to pay for it, people might get annoyed. i'd bet it'll be called 10.5. anyway, just my observations.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 65
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    I don't really care what number or name they give it, it has enough to warrant paying for it imho
  • Reply 2 of 65
    kedakeda Posts: 722member
    B4 WWDC, I would have been pissed that Apple would charge for Jag. But after seeing the amount of work that went into it, Im willing to cough up some cash (ie normal upgrade fee).
  • Reply 3 of 65
    rogue27rogue27 Posts: 607member
    it will have been a year since 10.1, that's a significant amount of time to work on a product, and the amount of changes and new features already announced is massive.



    I don't have a problem paying for it. I'm sure it will be cheaper to upgrade than to buy it from scratch anyway.
  • Reply 4 of 65
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    [quote]Originally posted by rogue27:

    <strong>it will have been a year since 10.1, that's a significant amount of time to work on a product, and the amount of changes and new features already announced is massive.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Then perhaps Apple should have trickled out those updates over the last few months instead of giving us minor hardware support and security updates?



    I'll be happy to pay for Jaguar, but I want a refund for the new Finder which should be given to every OS X user for free. I feel cheated that I have to pay for that improvement.
  • Reply 5 of 65
    aslanaslan Posts: 97member
    Belle you whine a lot.



    There are some great features in 10.2. And I would have KILLED Apple for releasing a bunch of half-finished, non-coordinated functionality upgrades for free.



    Apple's R&D costs money, and I think they deserve the cash for the work. I really think Jaguar is gonna be really great come September, and well worth the upgrade fee.



    Besides, you spend more on Phone bills over the summer than the upgrade cost of Jaguar, and with Jaguar at least you GET something for your money!
  • Reply 6 of 65
    dwsdws Posts: 108member
    Perhaps Finder in 10.1.x is horrible for people who have folders filled with tens of thousands of files, or who spend all of their time resizing the window, but most people just don't have that big of a problem with it. Belle's suggestion that we should get a refund to make up for whatever s/he thinks we were supposed to have in the first place is weird.



    Will we be paying for Jaguar? You bet! Will it be worth it? You bet!! Will people whine? You bet!!!
  • Reply 7 of 65
    Are these constant incremental updates the reason that we still can't print/scan properly in X? Does anyone know if Jaguar will help?

    How long before Jag updates start to appear?
  • Reply 8 of 65
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    [quote]Originally posted by Aslan:

    <strong>Belle you whine a lot.



    There are some great features in 10.2. And I would have KILLED Apple for releasing a bunch of half-finished, non-coordinated functionality upgrades for free.



    Apple's R&D costs money, and I think they deserve the cash for the work. I really think Jaguar is gonna be really great come September, and well worth the upgrade fee.



    Besides, you spend more on Phone bills over the summer than the upgrade cost of Jaguar, and with Jaguar at least you GET something for your money! </strong><hr></blockquote>

    Ouch. Perhaps I do whine a lot, but there's a lot to whine about. Even in typing this post, I'm typing about ten letters ahead of what is appearing on the screen. Nice.



    Scrolling is still awful, and it would appear that the only solution Apple has is hardware acceleration, which requires a relatively serious piece of graphics hardware.



    And if the assumption made by the original poster is correct, I'm going to be asked to pay for an OS that doesn't move my icons around, and lets me print properly. Whine whine whine.



    Apple's R&D does cost money, which is why they charge excessively for hardware. No objections there.



    The money isn't the issue. It's the fact we're being offered a "new" product with features that should have been available from the very start.



    Out of interest, which features in particular do you think are worth paying for?

    [quote]Originally posted by dws:

    <strong>Perhaps Finder in 10.1.x is horrible for people who have folders filled with tens of thousands of files, or who spend all of their time resizing the window, but most people just don't have that big of a problem with it. Belle's suggestion that we should get a refund to make up for whatever s/he thinks we were supposed to have in the first place is weird.



    Will we be paying for Jaguar? You bet! Will it be worth it? You bet!! Will people whine? You bet!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Try scrolling a ten page document in TextEdit. Try scrolling through a folder in Mail that contains 10 or 20 messages. Try typing an e-mail at around 70wpm and see if the display rate keeps up. Try resizing or scrolling the Finder window to find the file that OS X saw fit to move way down to the bottom right all by itself. Try resizing windows in applications.



    It's all usability issues, not just whining about tasks that we don't use very often.



    The comment about a refund wasn't serious. That's what the smiling face is there for.



    And I'll ask you the same question - which features in Jaguar are worth paying for, in your view?



    [ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
  • Reply 9 of 65
    cliveclive Posts: 720member
    [quote]Originally posted by Belle:

    <strong>Try scrolling a ten page document in TextEdit.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I'll go with that, TextEdit truly is a pile of crap. Wait until you start getting up to huge files, like one whole megabyte (:-)) - drag the thumb to the foot of the scroll bar, watch it work it's way gradually back up, do it again, repreat several times... finally you get to the bottom of the file.



    BBEdit running under Classic is quicker!
  • Reply 10 of 65
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    [quote]Originally posted by Clive:

    <strong>I'll go with that, TextEdit truly is a pile of crap. Wait until you start getting up to huge files, like one whole megabyte (:-)) - drag the thumb to the foot of the scroll bar, watch it work it's way gradually back up, do it again, repreat several times... finally you get to the bottom of the file.



    BBEdit running under Classic is quicker!</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Unfortunately it's not TextEdit. It's a "feature" of OS X, and one that you'll have to pay for to see an improvement, apparently...
  • Reply 11 of 65
    scott f.scott f. Posts: 276member
    WHAH! WHAH! WHAH!



    Man... "some" people need to gain a little perspective here. If you go out and buy the FIRST version of a BRAND NEW operating system... you have to EXPECT performance issues... it's part of the inherent cost of being an EARLY ADOPTER of new technologies.



    Apple has to PAY it's engineers, developers, programmers, whatever... LOTS of money to keep advancing the OS... why should it just be GIVEN to you for FREE...? This is not just a minor tweak... it's a major jump forward in the OS. They haven't even CONFIRMED that it will be called 10.2... no one knows yet.



    Just because "you" feel that the OS should have been "snappier" before this... should they have WAITED to release it and have NO developer support...? unlike NOW where they now have INCREASING acceptance and LOTS of major developers developing for the platform WHILE Apple continues to improve the OS.



    Sheeesh... quit your whinning... it's not gonna be THAT expensive... what's the WORST it will be...? $99...? That's STILL a bargain considering what it is.



    -- getting off of soapbox now --
  • Reply 12 of 65
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    [quote]Originally posted by Scott F.:

    <strong>Man... "some" people need to gain a little perspective here. If you go out and buy the FIRST version of a BRAND NEW operating system... you have to EXPECT performance issues... it's part of the inherent cost of being an EARLY ADOPTER of new technologies.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Uh, and if it came as the default OS on your new machine..?

    [quote]<strong>Apple has to PAY it's engineers, developers, programmers, whatever... LOTS of money to keep advancing the OS... why should it just be GIVEN to you for FREE...? This is not just a minor tweak... it's a major jump forward in the OS. They haven't even CONFIRMED that it will be called 10.2... no one knows yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Would you like to list the features that make this a "major jump forward"?
  • Reply 13 of 65
    scott f.scott f. Posts: 276member
    If it came on your machine as the default OS... and you bought it within XX amount of days, I'm pretty sure you're gonna get a cheaper upgrade path... some may get it for FREE if it falls within a certain time period. They have always done this.



    As far as listing the features... go look around the threads here.... see for yourself.
  • Reply 14 of 65
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    [quote]Originally posted by Scott F.:

    <strong>If it came on your machine as the default OS... and you bought it within XX amount of days, I'm pretty sure you're gonna get a cheaper upgrade path... some may get it for FREE if it falls within a certain time period. They have always done this.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Yes, they have. Let's see if they date it back to January when OS X became the default.

    [quote]<strong>As far as listing the features... go look around the threads here.... see for yourself.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    I've read them. I was asking which features you are so willing to pay for?
  • Reply 15 of 65
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Belle, you're joking, right?



    BSD core.

    Industrial networking.

    Standardized developer tools at the CLI.

    Extremely value added dev tools that use the above.

    Long uptimes.

    Lack of catastrophic crashes.

    A cleaner UI philosophy (I don't mean pinstripes, I mean moving Quit from under File, etc... heck, my computer illiterate mother noticed this right off and commented on it... she *loves* MacOS X over 9, hands down, no question, strictly because it makes more sense to her now)

    Wider application base ((Classic + BSD + MacOSX only) &gt; BSD, and &gt; Classic).

    Compositing graphics model that is just now starting to be tapped.

    A core platform that can be built *on*, not continually shored up.



    These alone are worth it to me.



    If you really can't see any added value for you, then just don't buy it. What's the problem with that?



    [ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
  • Reply 16 of 65
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    [quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:

    <strong>Belle, you're joking, right?</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Um, we're talking about improvements in Jaguar that make it worth an upgrade fee from 10.1.*, right?
  • Reply 17 of 65
    scott f.scott f. Posts: 276member
    [quote]Originally posted by Belle:

    <strong>

    I've read them. I was asking which features you are so willing to pay for?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Well... for ME... personally... I think:



    - Improved Finder

    * New compile(?)

    * Faster finding & sorting

    * snappier response

    - QuartzExtreme speeding up UI elements

    - USB Printer sharing

    - Improved Sherlock & finding files form a Window

    - Spring-loaded folders

    - Better intergrated Address app. (currently pissing me off)

    - More robust Mail.app

    - iChat (I actually LIKE the idea, some don't)

    - and since I am TRULY an "eye-candy" junkie... I will dig all the little extras that changed; Folders "popping open" when you drill-into them, the cursor shadow, the new beach-ball spinning cursor... these things may mean nothing to some people (and it IS low on my list) but it is still there.



    Anyhow... different people will want to upgrade for different reasons... be it right or wrong... all I'm saying is that this is not just a minor update... it's an UPGRADE and should be treated as such.



    I have no problem paying for my copy when it is released.



    Peace...
  • Reply 18 of 65
    macsrgood4umacsrgood4u Posts: 3,007member
    You got your coupon then pay $20 for the Jaguar CD upgrade.



    [ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: MacsRGood4U ]</p>
  • Reply 19 of 65
    admactaniumadmactanium Posts: 812member
    i agree that it's worth paying for. i have no problems shelling out for it. just wanted to share some info that it will probably be a paid upgrade if it was in doubt.
  • Reply 20 of 65
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Urk. Afraid I misread that, I did.



    Alright, I'll take a crack at it anyway.



    LDAP as a developer accessible API.

    Address Book built on above. (Honestly, the possibilities with just this are quite nice, and it's an excellent approach for Apple to take: "Here, we've provided a piece that anyone can use, that *also* demonstrates a useful way to use the underlying APIs...")

    General maturity of the dev tools.

    Entire system re-built using these dev tools. (Should result in a nice speed boost for everyone, QE or not.)

    Speaking of... QE. I can't utilize it, but the technology alone has me drooling for the possible applications.

    CoreMIDI done right, blast it. As a synthmonkey who has suffered for years under MacOS 8 and 9, this is just positively wonderful. (Yeah, yeah, I know, the apps aren't there, but this is just nummy a nugget to pass up on.)

    Better network player for the small SOHO LAN (USB printer sharing, Rendezvous, etc).

    General maturation of the UI and OS. A lot of small details seem to be addressed, which hopefully will clear these boards a touch. Naaaaah.



    Short list off the top of my head.



    [ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
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