These people should get out more. Why on earth would you want to spend all that time messing with the iPhone. If it's Android you want, just get one. I can't think of anything less useful, to be quite honest.
Doesn't that depend a bit on what you see iPhone as. If it is nothing more than a phone than certainly it could be left as is from the factory, that includes downloadable and installable apps. However if you see iPhone as a micro computer that also has a cell phone built in then you take is a bit different.
The big problem with iPhone OS is that either Apple is having trouble evolving it to what it should be or has a very narrow view of what the device should be able to do. To be honest i think iPhones current software suite is a result of both issues. To put it mildly Apple hasn't been able to meet their own developmental goals on the device. Further it is also obvious that people at Apple have this concept in their minds as to what iPhone should do, a vision that obviously doesn't jive with what many users would want form the device.
From the standpoint of somebody trying to exploit the platform hardware there simply aren't a lot of good choices out there. Linux quickly rises to the top of the heap. Oh and by the way I doubt a real hacker is going to get too excited about Android. Ideally what we would see on an iPhone version of Linux is a complete replacement for X optimized in a way similar to what is currently done on the iPhone. That is a very light weight and speedy screen drive that doesn't have the overhead of X. Of course that amy be looking at the problem through graying glasses, some don't consider X to be a big problem. User space is but there are several options there.
ALPICH, why do you even bother with the iPhone. Clearly, CLEARLY, it is not good enough for you, so why not just jump into the Android/WinMob camp and be done with it? Or are you just one of those guys that isn't happy until he has everything precisely HIS way? (Even if that means Frankensteining everything you own.)
First off people bother with iPhone because it strikes a cord with them on some level. Most of that revolves around the user interface. That doesn't mean however that missing features are not noticed.
Take the BluTooth stack for example, it is far from done if you have any desire at all to support new devices on the platform. There are many components to the BluTooth stack that would make for a better micro compute. AlPICH pointed out one in the lack of support for advanced audible communications protocols, which is real funny on a music device. There are other parts of the stack missing too, these often being referred to as profiles. The more support for BluTooth the more programs can exploit that and thus increasing the value of the iPhone.
As to the jump to Android well that is possible but frankly it is locked down pretty tight by the hardware/service providers. So you would still end up hacking to get your functionality. It is just that Android is delivering more system functionality right now than Apple has in its little machine. At least at the OS level, there is a good question as to the utility of the Android users space.
The killer here is that the iPhone Mobile OS has the capability to deliver the feature requests with out huge bloat. Don't get me wrong I know from Apples point of view the less you have to support the less problems you will have. But that has to be balanced against growth of the platform. In other words Apple has to show that the platform is going to grow and mature.
As a side note I us to have a Mac Plus years ago. In just about every way the iphone is a better computer than the old Mac Plus. It is faster, has color and more storage. The only thing it is short physically on is RAM. What it does have now though is a limitation with respect to software or support in the OS for BluTooth and the like. In many ways Blutooth is the ideal communications tech for this device but the artificial limitations are glaring if you have ideas for development. It is like being sold a car with the transmission missing. You are really limited in where you can go with it until those parts are installed. This is iPhones biggest issue right now, it has artificial limits that limit where you can go with it.
I can understand running Linux on an old ipod as it improves on the cut down OS it has but mobile OS X is a more advanced system and simply jail-breaking gives you the development freedom you need. Why go to so much trouble to downgrade it? They don't have the Cocoa Touch API or a remote debugger so some developments will be difficult.
You are a funny guy. Not happy until I have everything precisely my way? That is just funny. Of course I am not happy until I have everything the way I want it. Are you telling me that you don't mind it when things are not the way you want it. I can see you at McDonalds. "Can I have a Big Mac"."Yes Sir two cheese burgers coming your way". "Thankyou". lol
But back to the iPhone. It is a good product. But even good products can be improved on. Since the iPhone has bluetooth built in I just want my Bluetooth un-crippled.
Maybe I threaten your status quo life. Sorry for that.
THE IMPORTANT THING is NOT to run the awkward Linux on the iPhone and iPod touch, but the real McCoy: the full Aqua-based Mac OS X 10.5 inside the iPhone and iPod touch.
What for? To do this with native and full blown Apple Keynote and Microsoft Powerpoint presentations right from the iPhone and iPod touch:
Project from a Handheld!
Impatica ShowMate
Simply attach the ShowMate to the VGA port of any projector or monitor and your handheld delivers your PowerPoint presentation wirelessly using Bluetooth technology. You can now roam the stage and interact with the audience to deliver a more engaging presentation, without being tethered to a laptop. In fact, you can now travel laptop free!
THE IMPORTANT THING is NOT to run the awkward Linux on the iPhone and iPod touch, but the real McCoy: the full Aqua-based Mac OS X 10.5 inside the iPhone and iPod touch.
That would be amazing. Here is a video of it in action:
The thing is though, the OQO isn't a phone. Apple would have to make a Newton-like device and the market might be too small. I think the market is big for a tablet (doctors etc) but what size is right?
The iphone is a great device and popular because it's a phone. It needs to be simple and reliable. Leopard would need a fair bit of storage too.
With the new video-out stuff, we may see presentation capability. That would be pretty cool for university professors who don't want to lug laptops round all the time.
ALPICH, why do you even bother with the iPhone. Clearly, CLEARLY, it is not good enough for you, so why not just jump into the Android/WinMob camp and be done with it? Or are you just one of those guys that isn't happy until he has everything precisely HIS way? (Even if that means Frankensteining everything you own.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad
Grow up, people!
Pot. Kettle. Black. Is that really a "grown up" response to those wanting wireless stereo? Easily tangled headphone cables isn't really what I would consider ideal, I would like to see Apple allowed us to use it as a neater system.
Right now, the only way to add wireless stereo is to add an awkward dongle to the bottom of the phone, the one I saw a few days ago was $60 or so, and I would worry about breaking the dock connector. The iPhone has the hardware, and Apple does have the know-how to make the software. I wouldn't even mind paying a small fee for the feature.
That said, I'm not going to be installing Linux on it, I think they would have to clone most of the existing services to make it useful to me.
THE IMPORTANT THING is NOT to run the awkward Linux on the iPhone and iPod touch, but the real McCoy: the full Aqua-based Mac OS X 10.5 inside the iPhone and iPod touch.
What for? To do this with native and full blown Apple Keynote and Microsoft Powerpoint presentations right from the iPhone and iPod touch:
That just isn't going to happen with this project, and probably not as a result of this project. Aqua & all that is proprietary to Apple, and iPhone runs ARM. They haven't released Leopard for ARM.
there seems to be some pretty harsh criticism of code that is still in development.
Seems to me that a good potential future use of this might be for your old iPhone - for example I still have the original iPhone (not 3G) and will likely get a 3G model sometime next year - what to do with the old iPhone? the wife does not need the power of an iPhone - the kid is too young to need a cell phone at all. perhaps an iPhone running Linux will serve some entirely different purpose than being a phone. not really sure just what yet - but without possibilities and options being created how interesting would the future be.
And aren't there examples in the past of Apple responding to competition with something even better? or even examples of third party products that Apple ended up buying and folding into their products?
i won't be satisfied until beos is running on the iPhone.
lol
Good one I still have my BeOS CDs around here somewhere. Where is Jean-Louis Gassée these days anyway?
Meanwhile the folks doing this probably already have their 8 Core Mac Pros stripped of any sign of OS X running Solaris just for the hell of it. Hey, I am all for having fun with software. The good news is they can revert their iPhones back to the correct set up easily enough once the novelty of it being unable to do much wears off.
The software primarily includes the main Linux 2.6 kernel as well as rudimentary graphics, serial, and other functional drivers that are just enough to get a command line running when input is sent over the USB interface; the accelerometer, audio, networking and even the touchscreen have yet to receive any kind of software support.
Why announce a phone os that won't allow you to make a phone call. Wait until you can do something!!!
Now that on October 1 Apple*dropped the restrictive non-disclosure agreement that prohibited the teaching the SDK *a few New York City developers are offering classes in iPhone application development around the country and abroad.
Taking the lead a group of New York iPhone developers who formed the iPhone Bootcamp in New York created a*meetup*in New York City for iPhone developers. In mid-November they offered their first workshop in basic iPhone development, taught by leading NYC iphone developer Alex Cone, CEO of CodeFab and Chief Engineer at Medialets, a creative ad network for native mobile applications.
On December 13th and 14th two more workshops are scheduled for both basic and advanced iPHone Development. The goal is to train developers in iPhone Development and then spin a company off the training so the developers can work full time on the apps.
Currently the IPhone Bootcamp NYC is offering a discounted Early-bird rate.
To learn more go to the iPhone Boot Camp meetup site:
Seriously, the entire iPhone Dev Team needs to go out and get f*cking laid. I'm not even joking.
Still, that's pretty harsh. What are your hobbies? At least the people on that project are open about that, it takes guts to do that. It doesn't take any guts to criticize or judge.
Besides, a lot of innovations, careers and businesses happen as a result of a person's hobbies. A lot of those hobbies are often dismissed by their contemporaries.
The thing is though, the OQO isn't a phone. Apple would have to make a Newton-like device and the market might be too small. I think the market is big for a tablet (doctors etc) but what size is right?
The iphone is a great device and popular because it's a phone. It needs to be simple and reliable. Leopard would need a fair bit of storage too.
With the new video-out stuff, we may see presentation capability. That would be pretty cool for university professors who don't want to lug laptops round all the time.
Regarding your Leopard need storage, I have been playing around installing leopard on a FW drive I have laying around. I have 10.5.5 down to 6.5 GB. Of course, no printer drivers and one language with PPC architecture removed from Applications when possible via XSlimmer. I tell you, that is not bad for a fully functioning OS in size. I was surprised I was able to get it down to that size with a custom install and one click of an application.
I imagine Snow Leopard may add reductions on top of this.
Comments
These people should get out more. Why on earth would you want to spend all that time messing with the iPhone. If it's Android you want, just get one. I can't think of anything less useful, to be quite honest.
Doesn't that depend a bit on what you see iPhone as. If it is nothing more than a phone than certainly it could be left as is from the factory, that includes downloadable and installable apps. However if you see iPhone as a micro computer that also has a cell phone built in then you take is a bit different.
The big problem with iPhone OS is that either Apple is having trouble evolving it to what it should be or has a very narrow view of what the device should be able to do. To be honest i think iPhones current software suite is a result of both issues. To put it mildly Apple hasn't been able to meet their own developmental goals on the device. Further it is also obvious that people at Apple have this concept in their minds as to what iPhone should do, a vision that obviously doesn't jive with what many users would want form the device.
From the standpoint of somebody trying to exploit the platform hardware there simply aren't a lot of good choices out there. Linux quickly rises to the top of the heap. Oh and by the way I doubt a real hacker is going to get too excited about Android. Ideally what we would see on an iPhone version of Linux is a complete replacement for X optimized in a way similar to what is currently done on the iPhone. That is a very light weight and speedy screen drive that doesn't have the overhead of X. Of course that amy be looking at the problem through graying glasses, some don't consider X to be a big problem. User space is but there are several options there.
Dave
ALPICH, why do you even bother with the iPhone. Clearly, CLEARLY, it is not good enough for you, so why not just jump into the Android/WinMob camp and be done with it? Or are you just one of those guys that isn't happy until he has everything precisely HIS way? (Even if that means Frankensteining everything you own.)
First off people bother with iPhone because it strikes a cord with them on some level. Most of that revolves around the user interface. That doesn't mean however that missing features are not noticed.
Take the BluTooth stack for example, it is far from done if you have any desire at all to support new devices on the platform. There are many components to the BluTooth stack that would make for a better micro compute. AlPICH pointed out one in the lack of support for advanced audible communications protocols, which is real funny on a music device. There are other parts of the stack missing too, these often being referred to as profiles. The more support for BluTooth the more programs can exploit that and thus increasing the value of the iPhone.
As to the jump to Android well that is possible but frankly it is locked down pretty tight by the hardware/service providers. So you would still end up hacking to get your functionality. It is just that Android is delivering more system functionality right now than Apple has in its little machine. At least at the OS level, there is a good question as to the utility of the Android users space.
The killer here is that the iPhone Mobile OS has the capability to deliver the feature requests with out huge bloat. Don't get me wrong I know from Apples point of view the less you have to support the less problems you will have. But that has to be balanced against growth of the platform. In other words Apple has to show that the platform is going to grow and mature.
As a side note I us to have a Mac Plus years ago. In just about every way the iphone is a better computer than the old Mac Plus. It is faster, has color and more storage. The only thing it is short physically on is RAM. What it does have now though is a limitation with respect to software or support in the OS for BluTooth and the like. In many ways Blutooth is the ideal communications tech for this device but the artificial limitations are glaring if you have ideas for development. It is like being sold a car with the transmission missing. You are really limited in where you can go with it until those parts are installed. This is iPhones biggest issue right now, it has artificial limits that limit where you can go with it.
Dave
You are a funny guy. Not happy until I have everything precisely my way? That is just funny. Of course I am not happy until I have everything the way I want it. Are you telling me that you don't mind it when things are not the way you want it. I can see you at McDonalds. "Can I have a Big Mac"."Yes Sir two cheese burgers coming your way". "Thankyou". lol
But back to the iPhone. It is a good product. But even good products can be improved on. Since the iPhone has bluetooth built in I just want my Bluetooth un-crippled.
Maybe I threaten your status quo life. Sorry for that.
Grow up, people!
What for? To do this with native and full blown Apple Keynote and Microsoft Powerpoint presentations right from the iPhone and iPod touch:
Project from a Handheld!
Impatica ShowMate
Simply attach the ShowMate to the VGA port of any projector or monitor and your handheld delivers your PowerPoint presentation wirelessly using Bluetooth technology. You can now roam the stage and interact with the audience to deliver a more engaging presentation, without being tethered to a laptop. In fact, you can now travel laptop free!
http://www.impatica.com/showmate/
We need thousands for our University. Or else something like this from Apple with the full Mac OS X 10.5 inside:
Next Apple moves will be Books and Games…
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09...ooks-and-games
Meanwhile we are just using the OQO (just 454 g weight, being a full computer and pocketable):
OQO model 02
OQO model e2
http://www.oqo.com
http://www.oqo.com/intl/products/mod...fications.html
with Mac OS X 10.5 inside:
Now OQO is the smallest MAC in the World
http://www.oqotalk.com/index.php/topic,2672.0.html
Because even the MacBook Air is too large and heavy for us.
THE IMPORTANT THING is NOT to run the awkward Linux on the iPhone and iPod touch, but the real McCoy: the full Aqua-based Mac OS X 10.5 inside the iPhone and iPod touch.
That would be amazing. Here is a video of it in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJM4r4PVuY
The thing is though, the OQO isn't a phone. Apple would have to make a Newton-like device and the market might be too small. I think the market is big for a tablet (doctors etc) but what size is right?
The iphone is a great device and popular because it's a phone. It needs to be simple and reliable. Leopard would need a fair bit of storage too.
With the new video-out stuff, we may see presentation capability. That would be pretty cool for university professors who don't want to lug laptops round all the time.
Grow up, people!
Sorry dad.
...Meanwhile we are just using the OQO (just 454 g weight):
OQO model 02
OQO model e2
http://www.oqo.com
http://www.oqo.com/intl/products/mod...fications.html
WOW! I wish it wasn't $1,500 though
ALPICH, why do you even bother with the iPhone. Clearly, CLEARLY, it is not good enough for you, so why not just jump into the Android/WinMob camp and be done with it? Or are you just one of those guys that isn't happy until he has everything precisely HIS way? (Even if that means Frankensteining everything you own.)
Grow up, people!
Pot. Kettle. Black. Is that really a "grown up" response to those wanting wireless stereo? Easily tangled headphone cables isn't really what I would consider ideal, I would like to see Apple allowed us to use it as a neater system.
Right now, the only way to add wireless stereo is to add an awkward dongle to the bottom of the phone, the one I saw a few days ago was $60 or so, and I would worry about breaking the dock connector. The iPhone has the hardware, and Apple does have the know-how to make the software. I wouldn't even mind paying a small fee for the feature.
That said, I'm not going to be installing Linux on it, I think they would have to clone most of the existing services to make it useful to me.
THE IMPORTANT THING is NOT to run the awkward Linux on the iPhone and iPod touch, but the real McCoy: the full Aqua-based Mac OS X 10.5 inside the iPhone and iPod touch.
What for? To do this with native and full blown Apple Keynote and Microsoft Powerpoint presentations right from the iPhone and iPod touch:
That just isn't going to happen with this project, and probably not as a result of this project. Aqua & all that is proprietary to Apple, and iPhone runs ARM. They haven't released Leopard for ARM.
WOW! I wish it wasn't $1,500 though
You can get if for half the price until Monday 1st December 2008!!!
OQO model 02 Holiday Weekend Offer
http://www.oqotalk.com/index.php/topic,3274.0.html
Seems to me that a good potential future use of this might be for your old iPhone - for example I still have the original iPhone (not 3G) and will likely get a 3G model sometime next year - what to do with the old iPhone? the wife does not need the power of an iPhone - the kid is too young to need a cell phone at all. perhaps an iPhone running Linux will serve some entirely different purpose than being a phone. not really sure just what yet - but without possibilities and options being created how interesting would the future be.
And aren't there examples in the past of Apple responding to competition with something even better? or even examples of third party products that Apple ended up buying and folding into their products?
i won't be satisfied until beos is running on the iPhone.
lol
Good one
Meanwhile the folks doing this probably already have their 8 Core Mac Pros stripped of any sign of OS X running Solaris just for the hell of it. Hey, I am all for having fun with software. The good news is they can revert their iPhones back to the correct set up easily enough once the novelty of it being unable to do much wears off.
The software primarily includes the main Linux 2.6 kernel as well as rudimentary graphics, serial, and other functional drivers that are just enough to get a command line running when input is sent over the USB interface; the accelerometer, audio, networking and even the touchscreen have yet to receive any kind of software support.
Why announce a phone os that won't allow you to make a phone call. Wait until you can do something!!!
Taking the lead a group of New York iPhone developers who formed the iPhone Bootcamp in New York created a*meetup*in New York City for iPhone developers. In mid-November they offered their first workshop in basic iPhone development, taught by leading NYC iphone developer Alex Cone, CEO of CodeFab and Chief Engineer at Medialets, a creative ad network for native mobile applications.
On December 13th and 14th two more workshops are scheduled for both basic and advanced iPHone Development. The goal is to train developers in iPhone Development and then spin a company off the training so the developers can work full time on the apps.
Currently the IPhone Bootcamp NYC is offering a discounted Early-bird rate.
To learn more go to the iPhone Boot Camp meetup site:
http://www.meetup.com/The-New-York-iPhone-BootCamp/
You can get if for half the price until Monday 1st December 2008!!!
OQO model 02 Holiday Weekend Offer
http://www.oqotalk.com/index.php/topic,3274.0.html
I only see $200 off of the 1.5Ghz till December 1 st
Seriously, the entire iPhone Dev Team needs to go out and get f*cking laid. I'm not even joking.
Still, that's pretty harsh. What are your hobbies? At least the people on that project are open about that, it takes guts to do that. It doesn't take any guts to criticize or judge.
Besides, a lot of innovations, careers and businesses happen as a result of a person's hobbies. A lot of those hobbies are often dismissed by their contemporaries.
I only see $200 off of the 1.5Ghz till December 1 st
Check out my link above, and the 1.6 GHz model on Expansys (select your country, search for OQO and sort for pricing):
http://www.expansys.com
You will see that such a model is 50% off on one line.
That would be amazing. Here is a video of it in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJM4r4PVuY
The thing is though, the OQO isn't a phone. Apple would have to make a Newton-like device and the market might be too small. I think the market is big for a tablet (doctors etc) but what size is right?
The iphone is a great device and popular because it's a phone. It needs to be simple and reliable. Leopard would need a fair bit of storage too.
With the new video-out stuff, we may see presentation capability. That would be pretty cool for university professors who don't want to lug laptops round all the time.
Regarding your Leopard need storage, I have been playing around installing leopard on a FW drive I have laying around. I have 10.5.5 down to 6.5 GB. Of course, no printer drivers and one language with PPC architecture removed from Applications when possible via XSlimmer. I tell you, that is not bad for a fully functioning OS in size. I was surprised I was able to get it down to that size with a custom install and one click of an application.
I imagine Snow Leopard may add reductions on top of this.